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How will ObamaCare affect my 401k?
Vanity | 3/28/10 | self

Posted on 03/28/2010 8:53:50 AM PDT by HDCochran

I know that ObamaCare will impact the profitability and growth of investments in my 401k, but does it affect it even more directly? How are capital gains and dividends from stocks held directly in 401k treated and affected by the new medicare charge? What about from stocks in mutual funds held in 401k?

Will I be TRIPLE taxed?


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 111th; 401k; bhohealthcare; obamacare; vanity
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I would really like informed answers.
1 posted on 03/28/2010 8:53:51 AM PDT by HDCochran
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To: HDCochran

I read somewhere that the “unions” wanted your 401K. Not exactly sure what that means


2 posted on 03/28/2010 8:56:17 AM PDT by Krankor (nO)
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To: HDCochran

ping


3 posted on 03/28/2010 8:57:10 AM PDT by unkus
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To: HDCochran

Don’t worry about it - the dims will be coming to take the whole damn thing.


4 posted on 03/28/2010 8:57:16 AM PDT by austingirl
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To: HDCochran

Well here is one informed answer. Big labor wants Hussein and Co. to confiscate 401K’s, all for the “greater good”, of course. Your money will be used to fund the Marxist dreams of dear Leader. But don’t worry...you’ll be given T Bills to replace the missing money. Now don’t you feel better?


5 posted on 03/28/2010 8:57:27 AM PDT by Oldpuppymax
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To: Krankor

The Unions want the 401K’s rolled into a Gvernment run plan.

Give us your money Comrad!


6 posted on 03/28/2010 8:57:58 AM PDT by Mikey_1962 (Obama: The Affirmative Action President)
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To: HDCochran

The increase in capital gains tax will not impact your 401K, or your IRA, for that matter. All gains in these plans are taxed as earned income upon withdrawal. Personally, I am more concerned about an increase in the tax rate of earned income in the future. I am also more concerned about plans to have the government be in charge of 401K and IRA plans. These people are looking for cash to fund their experiment.


7 posted on 03/28/2010 8:59:58 AM PDT by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: Mikey_1962

Well, if they go down this road, I’m at the age I can retire and just roll my entire 401k into an IRA. No way is my money going into some government run plan.


8 posted on 03/28/2010 9:01:12 AM PDT by mtrott
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To: mtrott

Ha. Good luck. Obama’s plan is to take the money from people who earned it, and share it with people who didn’t.


9 posted on 03/28/2010 9:04:35 AM PDT by Krankor (nO)
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To: HDCochran
I would really like informed answers.

I don't believe there can be any informed answers. If all the current rules remain the same and Obocare is not repealed, then your 401k will be likely effected in three ways. It's value will not increase very much because of the long term economic trends. Your return will be further diminished because of the inevitable inflation that will come. And finally you will inevitably be taxed on your payouts at a higher rate than they otherwise would have been.

All that assumes no change to the 401k rules. However, I would not be surprised if the rules are changed. I think the government will be forced to apply some sort of additional capital gains assessment of these funds because they represent an irresistible source of revenue. I really believe we are all going to be screwed for being responsible and productive.

10 posted on 03/28/2010 9:06:46 AM PDT by outofstyle (Anti-socialist)
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To: Krankor

By the time these communists are done we’ll be happy to turn our money over to them...if they just don’t put us in prison.


11 posted on 03/28/2010 9:07:49 AM PDT by kjo
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To: mlocher

There is about $12 trillion in personal savaings, IRAs, 401K, etc. Our debt is about $12 trillion but unfunded mandates like SS, Medicare, Medicaid are much more plus pension plans for govt workers.

The Dems want that money. They have already said they want it. It is social justice for illegals (who McCain and Graham want to legalize), ACORN, SEIU and their voters.

Thank MCCain-Feingold for putting the Dems in power 2006/2008 and Obama 2008. Bush should have vetoed it.

Still we have people here sticking up for McCain. McCain has been the Dems trojan horse.


12 posted on 03/28/2010 9:08:06 AM PDT by Frantzie (McCain=Obama's friend. McCain called AMERICANS against amnesty - "racists")
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To: Krankor

This is absolutely correct. SEIU wants your 401(k):

http://lonestartimes.com/?p=2135


13 posted on 03/28/2010 9:08:14 AM PDT by jazminerose
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To: mtrott
What makes you think IRAs will be immune?
14 posted on 03/28/2010 9:10:15 AM PDT by Roccus (......and then there were none.)
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To: kjo

No, as Congressman Weiner kept telling Bill O’Reilly last week, “We are not going to criminalize anything” - they will just fine us to death.


15 posted on 03/28/2010 9:12:25 AM PDT by Krankor (nO)
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To: HDCochran

Attempt to seize my property and I will stop you by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.


16 posted on 03/28/2010 9:13:17 AM PDT by R0CK3T
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To: mtrott
No way is my money going into some government run plan.

Too late.

17 posted on 03/28/2010 9:15:00 AM PDT by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: HDCochran
First off, the 401K program will be renamed the 4Q program, which will systematically syphon off every penny of your money to provide sunglasses for polar bears. And if you complain, your friendly local totally overpaid government bureaucrat will reply, 4Q!
18 posted on 03/28/2010 9:17:28 AM PDT by Jagman (End income inequality: cut gov worker pay!)
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To: Roccus

Obama is gonna start enforcing those “Do not remove under penalty of Law” tags on mattresses- just so people don’t try to hide money there.


19 posted on 03/28/2010 9:17:31 AM PDT by Krankor (nO)
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To: HDCochran

Beware the greater threat - the federal government changing the law to roll all 401ks and Pensions into a national retirement plan. They are discussing this - just search FR for articles.

If they move in this direction, I will pay the penalties and withdraw my money to maintain control.


20 posted on 03/28/2010 9:18:40 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

ditto.


21 posted on 03/28/2010 9:24:54 AM PDT by mtrott
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To: mtrott

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2126622/posts


22 posted on 03/28/2010 9:24:54 AM PDT by Roccus (......and then there were none.)
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To: Roccus

Yeah, but that article was from 2008 when 401k and IRA balances had taken a 40% hit, and the politicians were able to make it sound like they were doing it so altruistically to protect the public from the vagaries of the market.

Those balances have now rebounded dramatically, so their argument has lost a lot of its merit.


23 posted on 03/28/2010 9:30:03 AM PDT by mtrott
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To: HDCochran

Even if they don’t seize 401Ks and IRAs, they will for sure dilute their values with the printing press.


24 posted on 03/28/2010 9:31:45 AM PDT by farmguy
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To: HDCochran
This is an interesting read from Neal Boortz:

http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2010/02/the-government-wants-your-reti.html

25 posted on 03/28/2010 9:39:23 AM PDT by Bronzy
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To: mtrott
Those balances have now rebounded dramatically, so their argument has lost a lot of its merit.

Do not cloud the issue with common sense and logic!

The Government sees the looming deficit in Social Security, Medicare, gov't pensions, etc and sees the money in IRA, 401k and other plans. It sees the money in private pension plans. It sees the money in savings accounts, CDs and what-have-you. Now, fast forward to Nov 2010. Let's say that there is a major upheaval (provided there IS an election) in Congress, but not a veto proof one. Exactly what will stop a bunch of lame duck Senators and Representatives from doing whatever they damned well please WRT your and my money?

26 posted on 03/28/2010 9:43:44 AM PDT by Roccus (......and then there were none.)
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To: Jagman
“First off, the 401K program will be renamed the 4Q program, which will systematically syphon off every penny of your money to provide sunglasses for polar bears. And if you complain, your friendly local totally overpaid government bureaucrat will reply, 4Q!”

First I laughed when I read your post. Then I cried, because although you were being facetious, it's probably not too far from the future truth. I am sick of giving my hard earned money to those who didn't earn it.

27 posted on 03/28/2010 9:46:29 AM PDT by Mrs. B.S. Roberts
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To: Roccus

“Exactly what will stop a bunch of lame duck Senators and Representatives from doing whatever they damned well please WRT your and my money?”

Hopefully, the fear of what will happen in 2012, if they pull something like that.


28 posted on 03/28/2010 9:47:25 AM PDT by mtrott
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To: Frantzie
There is about $12 trillion in personal savaings, IRAs, 401K, etc. Our debt is about $12 trillion

I had not seen the numbers so eloquently put before. Thanks for sharing this.

McCain lost his way. The things you have stated are true about McCain-Feingold. However, I will focus my anger on Obama and his leading the parade on our March to socialism. My energies will be focused at stopping this.

29 posted on 03/28/2010 9:51:10 AM PDT by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: mtrott
Hopefully, the fear of what will happen in 2012, if they pull something like that.

Pour hope into one hand and $#!| into the other and see which one fills up first.

They passed Obamacare under the threat of the coming election that is only seven months out. 2012 is an eternity away.

30 posted on 03/28/2010 9:52:32 AM PDT by Roccus (......and then there were none.)
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To: Roccus

We have a ROTH IRA...paid the tax up front back some time ago (we could see the handwriting on the wall)...and they won’t get any more of our $$ on those funds.


31 posted on 03/28/2010 9:52:41 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: SumProVita

If they want it....they’ll take it.


32 posted on 03/28/2010 9:55:23 AM PDT by Roccus (......and then there were none.)
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To: mlocher

If McCain wins - you have just put another ally for Obama in power. You have to remove anyone who supports Obama as quickly as possible. We are running out of time. MCCain put us in this situation. I am amazed the slack people cut him.

We HAVE to have people who will stand up and fight or we are dead. Your money, property, freedom will be gone. Our side is too soft like they are in some 1950s dream world were everything will be okay, “well McCain is a nice old guy”....We are dead if people do not wake up.

If you have children or grandchildren there future will be gone. Not ten years from now but this year.


33 posted on 03/28/2010 9:56:08 AM PDT by Frantzie (McCain=Obama's friend. McCain called AMERICANS against amnesty - "racists")
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To: HDCochran

I read last week that they were going to tax savings, I’ve been trying to figure out what that meant, but I believe that means your 401K.


34 posted on 03/28/2010 9:57:36 AM PDT by Eva
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To: Roccus

No, they cannot simply TAKE it.


35 posted on 03/28/2010 9:58:00 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Your strategy consists of a plan instead of mindless panic. Good for you.
36 posted on 03/28/2010 9:58:09 AM PDT by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

McCain and Graham-nesty will vote for it too.

“Oh but we have to remain loyal to the old Navy man from AZ even though he has the illegals digging pits for our bodies for Obama’s firing squad. We just need to take the bullet for McCain”

People are so dumb.


37 posted on 03/28/2010 9:58:42 AM PDT by Frantzie (McCain=Obama's friend. McCain called AMERICANS against amnesty - "racists")
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To: austingirl; HDCochran
Don’t worry about it - the dims will be coming to take the whole damn thing.

Exactly. Count on it. They'll do it in the name of "fairness" because you were able to get rich "at government expense" (meaning you got a tax break) while others had to suffer (whatever they mean by that).

At which point, for me, all rules about civility go out the window.

38 posted on 03/28/2010 10:01:02 AM PDT by Hardastarboard (Joe McCarthy was right. He was just early.)
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To: farmguy

Yup, I really wish I knew how to convert the money I’ve worked hard for into a vehicle the govt can’t seize.


39 posted on 03/28/2010 10:05:16 AM PDT by GnuHere
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To: SumProVita
No, they cannot simply TAKE it.

......yet.

40 posted on 03/28/2010 10:10:03 AM PDT by Roccus (......and then there were none.)
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To: Roccus

IF....it looks as if that will ever take place, we will take it out before they can. ;-)


41 posted on 03/28/2010 10:12:29 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: Roccus

They seized retirement funds last year in Argentina.


42 posted on 03/28/2010 10:15:59 AM PDT by MtnClimber (A government powerful enough to determine my quality-adjusted life years is no longer limited govt!)
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To: HDCochran

Eventually, they will go after our stocks and 401Ks. As the famous bank robber Willy Sutton said when asked why he robbed banks, he retorted, “because that is where the money is.” (I know he didn’t really say that, but the Libs have taken as their creed. We will be lucky to have anything left when these crooks are finished. Congress is like the Borg.


43 posted on 03/28/2010 10:18:33 AM PDT by richardtavor
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To: Frantzie
If McCain wins - you have just put another ally for Obama in power.

A strong conflict between socialism and Conservatism has been inevitable for quite some time. If McCain would have won, we simply would have kicked the can down the road for another election cycle or two. The outrage over "baby steps to socialism" would not exist.

No, McCain should not be our choice in 2012. He cannot, or perhaps will not, change the direction of the ship. He would just slow it down.

I have faith that Americans will do the "right" thing and put the proper leaders in power. As the economy continues to slow and as more people see their 401Ks not growing and their paychecks stretched, they will be more engaged and outraged. Obama will be stopped.

44 posted on 03/28/2010 10:20:55 AM PDT by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: mlocher

You are missing the point. McCain has to go now. He has to lose in 2010. If he wins then you might as well forget your country. His loss will scare the hell out o fthe other RINOs. We need tough people NOW to save this country. We are out of time and it may be too late already. McCain will do everything to help Obama - you can bank on that.


45 posted on 03/28/2010 10:29:46 AM PDT by Frantzie (McCain=Obama's friend. McCain called AMERICANS against amnesty - "racists")
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To: Frantzie
He has to lose in 2010.

OK -- got you.

46 posted on 03/28/2010 10:32:18 AM PDT by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: HDCochran
Right now, your 401(k) is not subject to additional tax so long as you don't withdraw any amounts from it (other than as otherwise permitted). The fascists, I mean democrats, have not yet gotten around to destroying the treatment of 401(k)s and other tax-favored private retirement accounts. However, any permitted withdrawals you make, such as once you hit the age where you have to take mandatory withdrawals, the amounts withdrawn will be subject to the full income taxation as ordinary income. In particular, as of right now, those withdrawn amounts should constitute "wages" or "compensation for services" - which is why they're subject to tax as ordinary income and not as capital gain - and are therefore not so-called "unearned income," which means that they shouldn't be subject to the expanded payroll taxes in Obastardcare.

I wouldn't count on that state of affairs remaining. In particular, as another poster mentioned, the unions - which clearly have control over the democrats, as witness how the democrats turned on a dime to please their union bosses over the "cadillac tax" issue - have demanded that the democrats seize all private retirement arrangements - 401(k)s, IRAs, and the whole panoply of other arrangements - and put them all into a single federal pension plan.

The obvious reason for this is that the union bosses have always used union pension funds as their personal piggy-banks and have basically raided the pension funds of union members for their own corrupt benefit. In order to make up for the stolen funds, they want all retirement plans - union pension plans as well as 401(k)s - all put into a single pot of money so that, basically, your 401(k) would be used to make up for the money that the union bosses have been stealing from the union pension funds.

When this happens, you will get a chit - an IOU - for the funds that will be seized from your 401(k), which will ostensibly give you the right to receive benefits from this new federal pension fund once you retire. Of course, by the time you retire your money will have long since been used up paying benefits for union members who have already retired, and your IOU won't be worth the paper it's written on.

In other words, the unions are going to use the coercive power of the federal government to steal your 401(k) funds for their own private use.

Until and unless both the democrats are removed from power and the unions are put back in their proper place - that is, the NLRA is either repealed or substantially rewritten - I would not contribute any more amounts to a 401(k) were I you, and I would be working on making the largest permissible early withdrawals I could from any existing 401(k) or other retirement arrangement, such as an IRA, for things like educational expenses, purchasing a home, or the other permissible early withdrawal purposes.

Obamacare is a Disaster, x-small
47 posted on 03/28/2010 10:32:45 AM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: HDCochran
How will ObamaCare affect my 401k?

Your 401(k) is going to be confiscated, and replaced with "guaranteed" bonds.

48 posted on 03/28/2010 10:33:38 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Let tyrants shake their iron rod, and slavery clank her galling chains)
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To: Oceander
In particular, as another poster mentioned, the unions - which clearly have control over the democrats, as witness how the democrats turned on a dime to please their union bosses over the "cadillac tax" issue - have demanded that the democrats seize all private retirement arrangements - 401(k)s, IRAs, and the whole panoply of other arrangements - and put them all into a single federal pension plan.

I am not saying that that didn't happen, I just haven't heard that. What I heard was for a new system that would invest in treasuries and that would not affect existing 401ks.

49 posted on 03/28/2010 10:35:47 AM PDT by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: ColdWater
If it's what the unions have been talking about, it is the seizure of all private retirement arrangements, which would be placed into a single federal pot of money. If it's to be invested in treasuries, then that's just a boondoggle - there won't be any money left over, period - which is precisely what the fascists in Argentina did in 2006. This is a boondoggle because it would replace your own funds, owned by you, held for your benefit by a private custodian, and segregated from the claims of that custodian's other creditors, with a single gigantic IOU from Uncle Sugar that could not be negotiated or otherwise sold on the open market, and which could therefore only be paid by raising new taxes.

This is precisely the same sort of boondoggle that Social Security is in right now, and it is why Social Security is bankrupt now, because current revenues are less than current payments of benefits, and that big, fat "special" treasury bond issued for the benefit of Social Security is nothing more than a general, unsecured claim against future general tax revenues which, because the federal goverment will be running massive deficits for all eternity if Obastardcare remains in place, can only be repaid if new taxes are imposed and new tax revenues raised.

In short, if this arrangement goes through, any money of yours that goes into that system will be lost, as effectively as if you had just paid "protection" money to some stereotyped mobster in a b-grade movie.

Obamacare is a Disaster, x-small
50 posted on 03/28/2010 10:44:31 AM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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