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Timing on Hutaree Raid Troubling
PipeLineNews.org LLC ^ | March 29, 2010 | PLN Staff

Posted on 03/30/2010 7:17:56 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic

Timing on Hutaree Raid Troubling - Is this the long anticipated beginning of Obama stifling "right wing" dissent?

March 29, 2010 - San Francisco, CA - PipeLineNews.org - In this administration nothing happens by accident, at least at the public relations level and DOJ's widely reported raid this last weekend on a group with extremely limited previous public visibility [the Hutaree, a tiny Michigan based group] might well be similarly tainted.

The defendants, David Brian Stone, David Brian Stone Jr., Joshua Matthew Stone, Tina Mae Stone, Joshua John Clough, Michael David Meeks, Thomas William Piatek, Kristopher T. Sickes and Jacob J. Ward, were variously named in a previously sealed indictment go here, Federal indictment Hutaree on 5 counts, including seditious conspiracy [USC 2384], attempt to use weapons of mass destruction [USC 2332], teaching and/or demonstrating the use of explosive devices [USC 842(p)(2)] and two counts of carrying or possessing a weapon during commission of a crime of violence [USC 924 (c)(1)].

Though the charges against this group might well turn out to be sustainable and the threat they posed great and imminent, the mere fact of the timing of this raid is troubling, coming in the immediate wake of a sustained attempt by Democrat politicians to characterize opponents of the Obama agenda as violent right-wing Christian racists, to the extent of having Democrat politicians charge - absent any proof - that they have been victimized - spat upon, subjected to the "n" word and other indignities - by the Tea Partiers [it goes without saying that Dem stunts such as Nancy Pelosi's grand march, gavel in hand, past protesters last week at the Capital were intended to provoke responses which could then be amplified by the MSM].

Helping set the scene, unofficial WH spokes-tard Frank Rich [a former drama critic] chimed in conspiratorially and in hushed tones, writing in the NY Times, "...to find a prototype for the overheated reaction to the health care bill, you have to look a year before Medicare, to the Civil Rights Act of 1964...If Obama's first legislative priority had been immigration or financial reform or climate change, we would have seen the same trajectory. The conjunction of a black president and a female speaker of the House - topped off by a wise Latina on the Supreme Court and a powerful gay Congressional committee chairman - would sow fears of disenfranchisement among a dwindling and threatened minority in the country no matter what policies were in play. It's not happenstance that Frank, Lewis and Cleaver - none of them major Democratic players in the health care push - received a major share of last weekend's abuse. When you hear demonstrators chant the slogan 'Take our country back!,' these are the people they want to take the country back from."

Adding fuel to this phony cellophane fire another of the usual suspects, the race whores at Southern Poverty Law Center issued [see, Rage on the Right, http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/spring/rage-on-the-right] a "report" which quoted Chip Berlet [a lefty whack job] as saying, "We are in the midst of one of the most significant right-wing populist rebellions in United States history...We see around us a series of overlapping social and political movements populated by people [who are] angry, resentful, and full of anxiety..."

In a March 24 interview with Boston Public Radio WBUR [see, When Right-Wing Extremism Moves Mainstream, http://www.wbur.org/npr/124906766] SPLC's "director of publications and information," Mark Potok stated as if on cue, "I think it's very clear that you see ideas coming out of all kinds of sectors of the radical right, from the immigrant radical right, from the so-called Patriot groups, the militias and so on - and you see it spreading right across the landscape at some of these Tea Party events...I think it's worth saying that much of this is aided and abetted by ostensibly mainstream politicians and media members...I think a lot of these ideas start on the radical right, but they are also being flogged endlessly by Republican officials...Even those who are sort of considered [to be] responsible Republicans have completely abstained from any kind of criticism of this talk. So even way back when, when Sarah Palin was talking about Obama setting up death panels and so on - what we heard was a deafening silence from the mainstream of the Republican Party." [source, http://www.wbur.org/npr/124906766] As Discover the Networks points out about SPLC, "In 1996, USA Today called SPLC, with its $68 million in assets, "the nation's richest civil rights organization." By the end of fiscal year 2003, SPLC's endowment totaled $120.6 million. Morris Dees raised eyebrows in the 1990s when he told an interviewer, "I learned everything I know about hustling from the Baptist Church. Spending Sundays on those hard benches listening to the preacher pitch salvation - why, it was like getting a Ph.D. in selling." [source, http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/splcworldview.html]

Demonstrative of the use to which the Hutaree indictment and the general rabble-rousing around spurious allegations can be put, are the stealth jihadists at the Council on American Islamic Relations [CAIR. named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the United States largest Hamas terror prosecution, U.S. vs. Holy Land Foundation, et al.], "Dawud Walid, executive director of the Council on Islamic-American Relations of Michigan, made an announcement Sunday during the group's 10th anniversary banquet about receiving a call from a network journalist about the alleged threat against Muslims..." [source, http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011468492_militia29.html]

For the record regarding this allegation, Gina Belaya, a spokeswoman for the federal prosecutors' office in Detroit, when contacted this afternoon by PipeLineNews.org, categorically denied any knowledge that the Hutaree group had targeted Muslims, stating that in the DOJ's opinion, "the government," was Hutaree's perceived enemy.

In the sphere of DC politics and ratcheting up the gambit more than a bit, Henry Waxman [chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee] acting as grand inquisitor, last week demanded that AT&T, Verizon, Caterpillar, and Deere & Co. justify their claims about the "costs the companies plan to book related to the new health-care law," clearly delineating a hard-line, zero tolerance policy regarding criticism of team Obama.

Given the foregoing, it seems that this administration and its allies are purposely targeting its critics in a manner which it hopes will demean them as fringe players, thus stoking the poisonous whisper campaign that the Tea Party movement and other critics of Obama's policies represent a fundamental and violent threat to the United States.

Thus we have been given a glimpse into a brave new world in modern day American politics, one in which dissent becomes conflated with violence at the topmost levels of government. If the first 14 months of this administration seemed a challenge for the conservative majority, Obama's intolerance of any level of criticism will make the remainder of the term memorable on several fronts.

2010 PipeLineNews.org LLC. All rights reserved.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: bhodoj; dissent; doj; holder; hutaree; obama; splc
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At very best the timing of this raid is troubling, a lot going on here that remains to be pieced together.
1 posted on 03/30/2010 7:17:57 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: johnqueuepublic
Looks like the link to the indictment didnt take, must have screwed it up, here it is, sorry. Hutaree Indictment here
2 posted on 03/30/2010 7:19:43 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: johnqueuepublic

The defendants, David Brian Stone, David Brian Stone Jr., Joshua Matthew Stone, Tina Mae Stone, Joshua John Clough, Michael David Meeks, Thomas William Piatek, Kristopher T. Sickes and Jacob J. Ward, were variously named in a previously sealed indictment go here, Federal indictment Hutaree on 5 counts, including seditious conspiracy [USC 2384], attempt to use weapons of mass destruction [USC 2332], teaching and/or demonstrating the use of explosive devices [USC 842(p)(2)] and two counts of carrying or possessing a weapon during commission of a crime of violence [USC 924 (c)(1)].

What crime of violence was actually committed in possession of a firearm??


3 posted on 03/30/2010 7:21:50 AM PDT by Bean Counter (I keeps mah feathers numbered, for just such an emergency...)
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To: johnqueuepublic

The Dems want to create a right-wing bogey man in time for the November elections, and we won’t find out this was all smoke and mirrors until after the vote. Expect footage of this arrest to show up in DNC ads this fall.


4 posted on 03/30/2010 7:22:59 AM PDT by littleharbour
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To: johnqueuepublic

I’m still waiting for CNN to run a story of LaLooney being arrested for threatening Eric Cantor. Maybe his own video footage of his hateful rants requires more of an attention span than guys in fatigues and SWAT teams in tanks.


5 posted on 03/30/2010 7:24:32 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: johnqueuepublic

Maybe ozero want’s to outdo klintoon. He want’s his own Waco.


6 posted on 03/30/2010 7:25:54 AM PDT by Texas resident (Outlaw fisherman)
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To: Texas resident

Oh, he won’t be satisfied with just that.

Think “camps” for “dissidents”.


7 posted on 03/30/2010 7:26:36 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: johnqueuepublic

Yes, this needs to be investigated.

In the meantime the response we need to give is to use Obama’s own weapon against him. The response that should be given:

These people are terrible - awful, America-hating people. Talking about killing cops and specifically aiming for large casualties. They’re enemies to this nation. We have to get rid of crazies like this. You know who they remind me of? Bill Ayers. Hey, by the way, did you see that Bill Ayers shows up many times on the White House visitor logs that Obama wanted to keep hidden...


8 posted on 03/30/2010 7:26:38 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: johnqueuepublic

Maybe the timing was because the group was planning to kill some law enforcement officers in April and then kill more at the funerals?


9 posted on 03/30/2010 7:27:17 AM PDT by mono
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To: johnqueuepublic
I certainly hope that no one here attempts to defend these dirtbags. It's pretty obvious the government either has inserted someone into this group or one of the members was turned. My guess is that, if the charging papers are correct, the initial attack on law enforcement would fall on or about April 19, and that was the subject of the February 20 meeting. If that is the case, there is nothing suspicious about the timing of the arrests.
10 posted on 03/30/2010 7:28:05 AM PDT by stormer
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To: littleharbour
Here's how the AP describes this event and this group, as 'dangerous right-wing Christian extremists.' And maybe they won't say whether they found any explosives because they didn't?

Seven men and one woman believed to be part of the Michigan-based group Hutaree were arrested this past weekend in raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio, and another was still being sought.

FBI agents moved quickly against Hutaree because its members were planning an attack in April, prosecutors said. Authorities seized guns but would not say whether they found any explosives.

Attorney General Eric Holder said the arrests dealt "a severe blow to a dangerous organization that today stands accused of conspiring to levy war against the United States."

Authorities said the arrests underscored the dangers of homegrown right-wing extremism of the sort seen in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing that killed 168 people.

11 posted on 03/30/2010 7:31:08 AM PDT by JustaCowgirl (Fred Thompson said Obama is treating terrorists "as if they robbed a liquor store.")
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To: mono
Maybe the timing was because the group was planning to kill some law enforcement officers in April and then kill more at the funerals?

You forgot the word "allegedly".

12 posted on 03/30/2010 7:32:36 AM PDT by softwarecreator (No more excuses ... we need to take our country back. Now.)
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To: mono
Maybe the timing was because the group was planning to kill some law enforcement officers in April and then kill more at the funerals?

Could it have been a government infiltrator who suggested or coerced the plan and April date, in order to achieve the appropriate timing? I don't know, but hopefully the facts will come out eventually.
13 posted on 03/30/2010 7:32:44 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: johnqueuepublic

All Obama has to do is run around the country right up until the election busting any group he thinks is a white Christian terrorist threat. Look at all the media coverage he’ll get. “Another white Christian militia group was arrested today...”

I’m sure he’s just laying the ground work to go after the Tea Party members and internet sites like F.R!


14 posted on 03/30/2010 7:33:01 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: Bean Counter

Probably USC 2332, attempt to use weapons of mass destruction.


15 posted on 03/30/2010 7:34:23 AM PDT by stormer
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To: johnqueuepublic

Just when was this cop killing ‘incident’ suppose to happen? ...was it after their Anti-Christ takes over in some future event? The MSM makes it sound like it was imminent, but the time frame and circumstances for the scenario are missing. Minority Report thought crime terrorists?


16 posted on 03/30/2010 7:34:29 AM PDT by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: AngelesCrestHighway

Why would the POTUS, a Black Muslim Marxist, do such a thing to white citizens of this country?

Never mind, just being paranoid....

As you were Barry.


17 posted on 03/30/2010 7:35:50 AM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: johnqueuepublic
Obama and Holder are conducting a campaign to criminalize political dissent. And any dissent is "politically incorrect!"

Eff him! Like the pretender said the other day. " BRING IT ON!"

18 posted on 03/30/2010 7:36:48 AM PDT by Candor7 (Now's the time to ante upagainst the Obama Fascist Junta ( member NRA))
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To: stormer

Couldnt agree more on the point regarding Hutaree’s potential for criminality

From the article, “Though the charges against this group might well turn out to be sustainable and the threat they posed great and imminent, the mere fact of the timing of this raid is troubling...”

Our question at base level refers to timing, there are a zillion groups out there including hard line Muslim groups who are carrying out paramilitary training exercises all over America and if the decision was made any of them could be targeted, yet they havent been up until now.

When you examine the confluence of the Dem handling of criticism over the last months capped by this raid one would have to a foolish to ignore the potential.

Hopefull when the prosecution proceeds all such questions will be resolved by the presentation of evidence.


19 posted on 03/30/2010 7:37:01 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: Bean Counter
What crime of violence was actually committed in possession of a firearm??

Seditious conspiracy. See how that works? LOL!

20 posted on 03/30/2010 7:38:10 AM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: stormer

Couldnt agree more on the point regarding Hutaree’s potential for criminality

From the article, “Though the charges against this group might well turn out to be sustainable and the threat they posed great and imminent, the mere fact of the timing of this raid is troubling...”

Our question at base level refers to timing, there are a zillion groups out there including hard line Muslim groups who are carrying out paramilitary training exercises all over America and if the decision was made any of them could be targeted, yet they havent been up until now.

When you examine the confluence of the Dem handling of criticism over the last months capped by this raid one would have to a foolish to ignore the potential.

Hopefull when the prosecution proceeds all such questions will be resolved by the presentation of evidence.


21 posted on 03/30/2010 7:38:15 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: stormer

April 19 surely is a red letter date.

Oklahoma City bombing
Branch Davidions in Waco, Tx
Columbine School


22 posted on 03/30/2010 7:38:17 AM PDT by diverteach (D.C. has become Jonestown)
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To: Bean Counter

They set off some kind of explosive during a training exercise while carrying firearms. Apparently that is a felony. Then, they uploaded it to YouTube.


23 posted on 03/30/2010 7:40:49 AM PDT by ClayinVA ("Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it")
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To: johnqueuepublic

The only thing suspicious to me is the media casting these thugs as right-wing. If they hated the government, I’d be surprised if they ever voted. The association is made merely because they had guns and some perverted view of Christianity.


24 posted on 03/30/2010 7:40:53 AM PDT by IamConservative (Liberty is all a good man needs to succeed.)
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To: Candor7
Arresting people who plot to kill police officers as a catalyst for social change isn't exactly what I call “a campaign to criminalize political dissent”.
25 posted on 03/30/2010 7:41:41 AM PDT by stormer
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To: johnqueuepublic

The left always loves to bring up Oklahoma, there are a million conspiracy theories out there but McVeigh and Co. though motivated by an anti-government philosophy had no ties to a larger organization which preached violent revolution.

That is NOT the case with the left, which last century murdered at least 50 million people, probably closer to 100 million.

The real blood is on the hands of the left, pass it on.


26 posted on 03/30/2010 7:41:59 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: jiggyboy
I’m still waiting for CNN to run a story of LaLooney being arrested for threatening Eric Cantor.

Like this one, from yesterday?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/29/cantor.threat.arrest/?hpt=Sbin

27 posted on 03/30/2010 7:42:51 AM PDT by browardchad ("Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact." - Daniel P Moynihan)
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To: stormer

No one is making the charge, at least no reasonable person stormer, that arresting bad guys is criminalizing political dissent.

However you cant be unmindful that a tremendous effort exists inside this admin to conflate dissent with potential violence.

You also cant ignore the fact - though it might be totally coincidental and of no import - that this bust took place at the end of a particularly alarming week considering the efforts by this admin and the dems to cast the right as violence prone Christian wingnuts.


28 posted on 03/30/2010 7:45:40 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: johnqueuepublic

IF this group targetted LEOs instead of muzzie training camps, they are idiots.

If they were after muzzie terrorists, they are being framed with these LEO charges because charging them with wanting to protect their country from terrorists would really PO the citizenry.


29 posted on 03/30/2010 7:45:48 AM PDT by Let's Roll (Stop paying Planned Parenthood to murder babies! Cut off their federal funding!)
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To: stormer
It's pretty obvious the government either has inserted someone into this group or one of the members was turned.

That's why the government fears the 'lone wolf'.

30 posted on 03/30/2010 7:45:50 AM PDT by thethirddegree
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To: johnqueuepublic
The timing was no surprise, I fully expected to see these things start very soon. It was the logical next step after last week's constant MSM chanting of "hate, threats, right wing, etc." Sadly, I expect to see more of these types of raids coming, then there will be the "linkage" (even when there is no credible evidence to support it), and the identification and targeting of a "wide spread conspiracy." I hesitate to even describe what will then follow.

One of the biggest obstacles that we now have in front of us as citizens of our country, is that sources of "real news," not propaganda from the state media, is going to become more and more scarce. At this point the only source of any real news on what is happening is from trusted eyewitnesses that happen to be close/near to events, and a handful of people speaking the truth on the radio and Internet sites. Unfortunately, I fear that these few remaining sources will soon be shutdown, one way or another.

31 posted on 03/30/2010 7:49:15 AM PDT by zzeeman (Fighting to not be the amongst the last generation to enjoy freedom & liberty!)
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To: johnqueuepublic

A bunch of dopes running around in the woods playing army isn’t really a big concern. People manufacturing explosives and planning to use them to achieve some political end is. Given the resources of the federal government, I would imagine that there are few groups not under some kind of scrutiny, and when there activities rise to the level of direct threat, action is taken.


32 posted on 03/30/2010 7:49:41 AM PDT by stormer
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To: thethirddegree

No question.


33 posted on 03/30/2010 7:52:32 AM PDT by stormer
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To: johnqueuepublic; hennie pennie; Beckwith
Innocent until proven guilty, Obama can shove his political correctness initiative against political dissent.

People need to start sorting out law from political corectness. The left does not want us to be a nation of laws, but a nation of unilaterally leftist defined political correctness, ie fascism.

This policy has been created by government over a year ago. Jqnet Reno filed a DHS policy finding delineating the danger of right wing militants.She issued a public apology but the letist based finding was allowed to stand as policy at DHS. This FBI raid is a follow through.

Welcome to the second liberal fascist post-RENO/CLINTONION chapter on WACO and Ruby Ridge. They are getting smarter, Napolitano stayed out of it, but this was a joint DHS/FBI/BATF/ICE exercise. What a laugh. The spent over a million dollars chasing down a bunch of harmless yahoos in the Michigan woods as a political ploy against the right, trying t stem the tide of moderate voters now running away from the Obama Agenda. IT HAS FAILED.

The Hutaree seven , eight or nine didn't have enough resources to feed one extra cow, let alone hire their own lawyers, unlike those in Muslim paramilitary camps scattered around the country.Thats why the coward Holder attacked them.I doubt we will see any evidence of cop killing plans, outside of oral threats. If so, it was likely created by entrapment.

Bless those poor country folk . I hope they are well defended. They are innocent until proven guilty.

This time the government will meet far more egregious armed opposition. .They should stand down from the Holder / Napolitano initiatives against the so called right wing and chase down the Muslim training camps who are a source for international US based training fodder in Palkistan and Yemen.

Obama may not know it, but he and Holder are playing with a fire they will not be able to put out, once ignited. Declaring martial law and postponing elections will only make it worse. Patriots will not abide it.

34 posted on 03/30/2010 7:57:08 AM PDT by Candor7 (Now's the time to ante upagainst the Obama Fascist Junta ( member NRA))
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To: johnqueuepublic
I expect administrations to use events to whatever political advantage they can - that isn't unique to the Obama administration or even Democrats in general - it's simply one of the ways politics is played.
35 posted on 03/30/2010 7:57:42 AM PDT by stormer
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To: browardchad

I should have said CNN TV. The lead story most of yesterday was Michael Jackson’s doctor being arrested, and BREAKING UPDATES on those guys being arrested in Michigan.

I just checked the websites “video” section and it confirms that they have no video segments regarding the guy and his arrest.


36 posted on 03/30/2010 7:58:52 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: stormer; thethirddegree

It’s also why the Tea Party movement is driving them NUTS.

They can’t focus on “a leader” and demonize him or her ala Alinsky.


37 posted on 03/30/2010 7:59:42 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: johnqueuepublic
Hopefull when the prosecution proceeds all such questions will be resolved by the presentation of evidence

Yes. I want to see the presentation of real evidence that couldn't be manufactured by the government that this group constituted an immediate danger over and above the hundreds, if not thousands, of other 'threatening' groups out there, many of which are probably Muslim and/or left-wing.

And it needs to be physical evidence that couldn't be trumped up by the prosecution/government. I see the potential for the authorities identifying the weakest link in those arrested and turning that person to produce all kinds of damning details not supported by anything else. Plus the government clearly has an inside informant. What if this person actually produced all the 'plots' that were supposedly ginned up? How would the people who are arrested ever go about fighting that?

38 posted on 03/30/2010 7:59:55 AM PDT by JustaCowgirl (Fred Thompson said Obama is treating terrorists "as if they robbed a liquor store.")
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To: stormer

Spot on, and I hope that some of the more vocal second amendment rights folks would stop pouring out their moral outrage with their guns drawn (verbally or otherwise).

I hope that everyone sees how this plays into their game. They make us as crazy as loons listening to the lies, and yet, that is what they are just waiting for.


39 posted on 03/30/2010 8:07:33 AM PDT by LurkLongley (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam-For the Greater Glory of God)
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To: johnqueuepublic
Hopefull when the prosecution proceeds all such questions will be resolved by the presentation of evidence.

JQP, that used to be a reasonable expectation. Problem is now, no one can any longer expect to be presented with anything other than what is dictated. Unless someone is present in the courtroom throughout the trial, no one can expect to know what transpires. "Evidence" can be presented, but why should anyone any longer assume that it is not false evidence?

Regrettably things have devolved to the point where trust now has to be given very sparingly. This is a stark change from even 3 or 4 decades ago. Sure, there was propaganda, lying, and deception throughout history, but in the past, at least in this country, it was certainly far less prevalent than today. I know that this is very disturbing to many (myself included), and it is often hard for people to open their eyes and ears to what is happening. However, I think our only hope of surviving this onslaught and regaining control of our country and restoring the freedom and liberties that our Constitution provides to us, is for everyone to accept the fact that nothing presented by the MSM and government should ever be taken at face value, not without a huge grain of salt.

40 posted on 03/30/2010 8:10:04 AM PDT by zzeeman (Fighting to not be the amongst the last generation to enjoy freedom & liberty!)
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To: zzeeman

The way to thwart their plan is to throw the issue back in their face. A so-called president whose White House visitors’ list includes Bill Ayers should be running the other direction hiding from the issue of domestic terrorism.

We’ve got to slam him back on Bill Ayers visiting the White House so many times. Not exactly what you’d expect from somebody who takes domestic terrorism seriously. And the harder they try stroking the Tea Party with that brush the more they draw attention to the blood on their own hands.

This topic should be an epic fail for the lefties because the guy they chose as their puppet has blue stained dresses all over his wardrobe - evidence of liaisons that point the fingers all back at him.


41 posted on 03/30/2010 8:11:20 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: JustaCowgirl

” . . . a dangerous organization that today stands accused of conspiring to levy war against the United States.”

The mind reels.

Was Bill Ayers ever “accused of conspiring to levy war against the United States.”

Were the rest of the SDS, Weather Underground and Black Panthers that have now risen to national notoriety and positions of prominence in the power structure now in charge in this once great country?

How about CAIR, the ecoterrorist groups, La Raza, the New Black Panthers, etc?

How about our beloved African Muslim Marxist leader, Mr. “Fundamentally Transform the United States of America,” clearly affiliated through only one or two degrees of separation with so many of those people?

Are we to assume that “the United States” that was being conspired against was equated with, identicle to, the increasingly tyrannical Federal Government?

Are we all, then, also enemies of the state, aiding and abetting the enemy through our questioning and statements of concern?

Sounds like it is war. Battle lines being drawn . . . .


42 posted on 03/30/2010 8:13:51 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: stormer; TigersEye
We are a nation of laws.Obama wants us to be a nation of political correctness dictated by whim and fiat by the president.

The militia people are innocent until proven guilty.

This was apolitical hit IMHO. These folks do not have resources to wage war on the USA. They could not even hire their own defense attorneys.A bunch of dirt farmers running around the woods, far less organized that the Muslims are in training camps in Islamberg New york, for example.

Christian militia....targeting cops? Just doesn't ad up.I could see them targeting muslims, which was the initial spin on the story in the Detroit News, now abandoned.

Every militia group in the USA is now on stand by. This was a test by the Obama administration of how legitimate US militias work nationally. I doubt they got much intel.The militias are created and guaranteed by the state constitutions and by the 2nd amendment, those charged in this case had a right to assemble and train without federal government interference.

I yet have not seen any evidence that would show they crossed any line. No explosives were found on the searches conducted.We have mixed hearsay evidence that the group threatened Muslims and then the story changed to say the group was planning to kill policemen.We also know that those charged are poor folk. White trash as far as the left is concerned.I guess it doesn't pay to be poor , trained, armed, white trash.They stand in the way of creating dependence on the state?They certainly are not a strategic threat to the nation.

Meanwhile thousands of Muslims operate dozens of paramilitary training bases throughout the country.

Ignored by DHS, Holder and the rest.And they have A LOT of money and resources behind the from the Oil Sheiks.Yet they are not raided, have never been raided.Curious eh?

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43 posted on 03/30/2010 8:22:32 AM PDT by Candor7 (Now's the time to ante upagainst the Obama Fascist Junta ( member NRA))
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To: stormer
it's simply one of the ways politics is played.

This is no longer a game that is being played. It may have been more true in the past, even then, only partially true. There has been a long running and sustained attack from within our country for decades. This attack has never been about legitimate disagreements about government policy, which are not only necessary but helpful in a healthy process. This attack has always been focused on destroying our country and destroying capitalism. Some people refuse to accept the fact that we are under a devastating attack from within that is gaining momentum at a very rapid pace now, and that is very unfortunate.

44 posted on 03/30/2010 8:23:24 AM PDT by zzeeman (Fighting to not be the amongst the last generation to enjoy freedom & liberty!)
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To: Candor7
"The militia people are innocent until proven guilty."

I made that exact point yesterday. However, I did not participate in speculation.

45 posted on 03/30/2010 8:26:26 AM PDT by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: zzeeman; stormer
people refuse to accept the fact that we are under a devastating attack from within that is gaining momentum at a very rapid pace now, and that is very unfortunate>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wisely and accurately said.

46 posted on 03/30/2010 8:30:25 AM PDT by Candor7 (Now's the time to ante upagainst the Obama Fascist Junta ( member NRA))
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To: butterdezillion
This topic should be an epic fail for the lefties because the guy they chose as their puppet has blue stained dresses all over his wardrobe - evidence of liaisons that point the fingers all back at him.

Not that long ago I would agree with this premise. And in a just world it would be absolutely correct. But I no longer have faith that the truth means all that much. Heck, the country was told all about all of the liaisons, friendships, partnerships, mentoring, and other relationships before the last election. Of course the MSM did everything they could to attack the messengers and discredit the message any way possible, and a lot of the citizens of this country apparently shrugged their collective shoulders and gave little credence or import to those facts.

I am normally not a pessimist about most things, but I don't think that we should rely on what is right, just, and true to carry much weight anymore; not until a majority of citizens wake up, get their heads out the sand buckets, and confront our current reality.

47 posted on 03/30/2010 8:35:18 AM PDT by zzeeman (Fighting to not be the amongst the last generation to enjoy freedom & liberty!)
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To: johnqueuepublic

I agree, the raid against this alleged militia group is a government planned shot across the bow of the Tea Party movement. Obama & Co. are trying to paint opponents using Constitutional rights of assembly and free speech as dangerous nuts. It’s from the playbook of the radical left.

As far as this alleged militia group, the feds are using idle talk and speculation of what they would try to do if the government forces came under the sway of the “Anti Christ” as being a terrorist act. Further, the feds are saying trolling the Internet for pipe bomb plans and then buying (allegedly) some of the parts is a felony. Well, I have a left over section of 2” galvanized pipe from a plumbing project in my parts hoard, so I guess I am a not yet caught co conspirator. See how easy it can be to be arrested? Love your America, but don’t trust the present government.


48 posted on 03/30/2010 8:38:54 AM PDT by RicocheT
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To: stormer

Really? I don’t recall a Republican administration who sought to criminalize political dissent?


49 posted on 03/30/2010 8:39:53 AM PDT by roses of sharon (I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13)
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To: johnqueuepublic

Perhaps the best way to protect Christians is to have them all wear red arm bands with crosses on them...and to confiscate any weapons they may have. And for their own safety, they should be held in government camps for awhile, at least until the right-wing militia members are found and arrested. They AND the rest of the country will be happier this way.


50 posted on 03/30/2010 8:40:34 AM PDT by Guyin4Os (My name says Guyin40s but now I have an exotic, daring, new nickname..... Guyin50s)
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