The Ominous ‘S-Word’ – Secession

Big Government ^ | 3-31-10 | Timothy H. Lee

[kingattax]

After 230 years, are the American people coursing toward eventual divorce?

Our polarized society increasingly ponders what would happen if American conservatives and liberals simply agreed that their differences had become irreconcilable, and redivided the nation to go their separate ways.

Which side would prosper and experience an influx of migration from the other? Conversely, which side would likely become a fiscal and socio-political basket case?

Any reasonable person already knows the likely answer. One need only compare the smoldering wreckage wrought by liberal governance in such states as California or Michigan with the comparative prosperity created by conservative governance in such states as Texas or Utah.

We can also examine the past 400 years, during which immigrants abandoned Europe for an America founded upon the fundamental principles of limited government and individual freedom.

[Non-Sequitur]

bump

[kingattax]

Our polarized society increasingly ponders what would happen if American conservatives and liberals simply agreed that their differences had become irreconcilable, and redivided the nation to go their separate ways.

sound familiar ?

[kosciusko51]

sound familiar ?

Yes.

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. ..."

[reaganrevolutionin2010]

A secession would not be polite and non-violent. Tyrants and Marxists aren’t stupid. They know very well that their lifestyle depends on our labor. They won’t let the slave class leave without a fight.

[alloysteel]

The Civil War was fought, not about slavery, which at best was only a side issue, but about the right of a State to secede from the Union. The right was put down by force of arms, and the subdued nation, the Confederated States of America (actually only a loose alliance between a number of autonomous governmental entities) was occupied and placed under martial law, the effects of which lasted more than a century. This right of secession was NEVER determined to be either legal or illegal by any court of law.

The United States itself was the result of secession from the British Empire.

But of course, history is not taught with this lesson in mind.

[lowflyn]

We could let them have the North East corner and it would not change Americas outline that much

[trickyricky]

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;
and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable,
than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations,
pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism,
it is their right, it is their duty,
to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

[MrB]

Sounds familiar.

Also logical -

there is no way a freedom loving people can live in under the same political jurisdiction as those who insist on their slavery.

Those insisting on slavery inherently are willing to use deadly force to impose their will on us, and we’re just starting to realize that equal resistance will be required for us to remain free.

[Non-Sequitur]

This right of secession was NEVER determined to be either legal or illegal by any court of law.

Yes it was. Texas v White 74 U.S. 700 (1869) Link

[kosciusko51]

We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. ... We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.

[nevermorelenore]

that’s what “they” want us to do! Then they can divide and conquer.

[reagan4palin]

I doubt we would have ever reached this point had the federal government not been allowed to overstep its authority. All the liberals could have had their states where they could do their grand socialist experiments and have left the rest of us alone.

So now we have the whole nation painted with one broad brush. What works for the folks in Maine is expected to work for Texas and so on. Never was intended to be that way, the states were each different and there was strength in the diversity. So now we are in this fine mess and headed for conflict the root cause of which in my opinion is a federal government that got too big for its pants.

[Psalm 144]

That is possible, but I see a potential for USA dissolution in the same manner and for many of the same reasons as USSR dissolution.

I can see the federal government becoming so unpopular, inept, expensive and ossified that no one will care when it dies of its own weight and incompetence.

Large portions of the Roman empire failed the same way. People were relieved when that insatiable taxing authority collapsed.

I do NOT see this as an optimal outcome, but I do see it as possible.

The fall of the Soviet Union remains mind boggling to me. It could certainly happen here. Unchecked parasitism will always kill the host.

[stockpirate]

PING

[DBrow]

“A secession would not be polite and non-violent.”

Also involved is the large amount of “Federal” property that would be on the wrong side of the border, no matter where you draw the line. Then there is debt- one side would be left holding the already unpayable bag.

The decision to involve the military would be strongly influenced by this enormous pile of money, debt, responsibility, and real estate.

[HerrBlucher]

I am game for dividing up into Conservative USA and Liberal USA. We get ALL the military and nuclear weapons since they are opposed to them, we get all the oil fields since liberals are opposed to them, we get all the mines because liberals are opposed to them, and we get all the dams and the water behind them because liberals are opposed to them.

And just to show good faith and how much we love them despite our differences, we will supply them will all the marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth, and LSD they can stand at discount prices.

I wonder which country libertarians would choose?

[sheikdetailfeather]

I think the left needs to go live with the Palestinians where they would feel comfortable.

[MrB]

All the liberals could have had their states where they could do their grand socialist experiments and have left the rest of us alone.

Anathema to a leftist - they know better, and YOU had better fall in line and comply.

Seriously, this is THE driving motivation behind the left crapping their pants over the "S word". It's not that they know they'll lose all the producers and attract all the freeloaders, it's the lack of control over their fellow citizens that drives 'em nuts.