Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New York Times: The Government and the Militia Movement (Here it comes!)
The New York Times ^ | March 30, 2010 | The Editors

Posted on 03/31/2010 5:12:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

The F.B.I.’s raids against members of a Michigan-based Christian militia over the weekend added to concerns about rising far-right activity across the country. Nine members of the group, called the Hutaree, face sedition and weapons charges in a scheme to kill law enforcement officers to incite an antigovernment revolt.

As the government deals with the re-emerging militia movement, what did it learn from the experiences of the 1990s, from the disastrous sieges in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992 and at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Tex., in 1993 to its handling of Oklahoma City bombing case?

Jess Walter, author, “Every Knee Shall Bow”
Catherine McNicol Stock, historian, “Rural Radicals”
David H. Bennett, historian, “The Party of Fear”
Kenneth Stern, American Jewish Committee
Robert Churchill, history professor, University of Hartford
Michael Barkun, political scientist, Syracuse University

****

Lessons of Ruby Ridge

Jess Walter is the author of “Every Knee Shall Bow,” a nonfiction book about the Ruby Ridge standoff (re-released in 2002 as “Ruby Ridge”). A National Book Award finalist for fiction in 2006, he is the author of five novels, most recently “The Financial Lives of the Poets.”

The resurgence of radical right-wing extremism in America starts with today’s headlines: economic hardship, overheated political rhetoric, a perception that middle-American values are eroding.

The last such brush fire of extremism was already smoldering in 1992 (as it is now) when federal law enforcement agents doused it with gasoline—a series of missteps and cover-ups during a shootout and standoff that left three dead at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

A year later, 79 people died in a shootout and fire at the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, Tex. As the mishandling of these cases came to light, the radical right made unprecedented inroads into the mainstream. (continued)

(Excerpt) Read more at roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: awb; banglist; bhodoj; cw2; cwii; hr45; hutaree; militias; obama; reichstaggers
Unlike the early 90's, we have the Internet and all news isn't filtered through ABC/CBS/CNN/NBC/PBS and the birdcage liners. The people aren't buying this "Tea Partiers are racist militia" tripe this time around.
1 posted on 03/31/2010 5:12:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I agree. What a load of horsefoodle.


2 posted on 03/31/2010 5:15:59 PM PDT by sayuncledave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is like THE APPLE DUMPLING GANG!


3 posted on 03/31/2010 5:16:24 PM PDT by tallyhoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

There’s no evidence whatsoever that the Hutaree are “right wing”.

The criminal charges against them could have been lodged against BIll Ayers (Obama’s friend) and the Weather Underground and not missed a beat.


4 posted on 03/31/2010 5:22:48 PM PDT by muawiyah ("Git Out The Way")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Unlike the early 90's, we have the Internet and all news isn't filtered through ABC/CBS/CNN/NBC/PBS and the birdcage liners. The people aren't buying this "Tea Partiers are racist militia" tripe this time around.

Huge difference. All of the difference in the world. Which is why they are trying to get the authority to shut down the internet in the event of a "national emergency."

5 posted on 03/31/2010 5:24:55 PM PDT by Bahbah (Only dead fish go with the flow)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Very transparent. The left needs a boogy-man. The MSM is useless and should be ignored.


6 posted on 03/31/2010 5:27:42 PM PDT by alarm rider (The left will always tell you who they fear the most. What are they telling you now?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hey, Times, Your a waste of trees and you have NO influence anymore. Just more leftie BS.


7 posted on 03/31/2010 5:32:44 PM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’m confused. According to the President’s neighbor Bill Ayers, killing police is a good thing.


8 posted on 03/31/2010 5:36:25 PM PDT by lurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lurk

But for right now; Keep you head down and your powder dry.


9 posted on 03/31/2010 5:40:44 PM PDT by maine yankee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Not all of the essays are by leftards; this one is quite good.

The Movement’s Sharp Divide

Robert H. Churchill is associate professor of history at the University of Hartford. He is the author of “Shaking Their Guns in the Tyrant’s Face: Libertarian Political Violence and the Origins of the Militia Movement.”

In the mid 1990s hundreds of militia groups formed across the nation in response to the state-sponsored political violence on display at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

The movement was from its earliest days divided between two wings. Constitutional militias emphasized public meetings and membership open to all races and faiths. Their members were motivated by a fear of increasing state violence directed at gun owners, and they were primarily libertarian in their politics.

The constitutional militias took significant pains to free themselves from entanglement with the White Supremacist right. A smaller wing of the movement was more millenarian in its world view. Militias in this wing tended to organize underground cells. Many were sectarian in their composition, and there was a greater tolerance for the presence of avowed white supremacists in their ranks.

read the rest at the link in the OP


10 posted on 03/31/2010 5:40:58 PM PDT by Valpal1 ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
The people aren't buying this "Tea Partiers are racist militia" tripe this time around.

There's still a lot of folks out there who think the Times & Co. are reliable.

ML/NJ

11 posted on 03/31/2010 5:41:53 PM PDT by ml/nj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Many are.

Most people still follow what ever the evening news tells them. And when you add to that the anti Christian/conservative themes on TV (NCIS Los Angelas last night for instance), it becomes part of the culture.

No German in 1920 thought that the concentration camps would happen at first either, but they mainly followed along.

12 posted on 03/31/2010 5:50:19 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv; cripplecreek; Candor7; little jeremiah; Las Vegas Ron

*ping*


13 posted on 03/31/2010 5:50:36 PM PDT by hennie pennie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
There’s no evidence whatsoever that the Hutaree are “right wing”.

Well, they're supposedly "Christian", white, and possibly...male. None of that would ever be allowed in a Marxist gang.

14 posted on 03/31/2010 5:56:10 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Isolated groups of rural, trailer park militias are the only thing these Maxwell Smart wannabes seem to want to go after - low-hanging fruit. Nobody is impressed anymore when they send in half a battalion of government cops to take down and handful of loosely-wrapped survivalists. And nobody outside of Manhattan, Berkeley, and the Fourth Estate ruling elites gives the 'extreme right-wing militia threat' boogeyman one ounce of serious consideration. It's the millions and millions of law-abiding, tax-paying, leave-me-the-hell-alone, ordinary citizens who they're going to push too far. Let them try to muster the resources to put a lockdown on a good-sized town, or even an entire county. Hussein would have to suspend the Posse Comitatus Act to try and contain the ensuing uproar, because there wouldn't be enough civilian law enforcement - on any level - to spread around that thinly. He's pretty much kicked the dog one time too many as it is. And, as you said, this is an age that isn't solely reliant on the alphabet networks and dead tree publications to get info on current affairs. Kinda makes you wonder: if it really came down to shit-or-get-off-the-pot time in this country, what percentage of municipal, county, and state personnel would actually follow his dictates after a declaration of martial law? For that matter, to what degree would he get the compliance of the various branches of the military if he did suspend Posse Comitatus? Things that make ya go 'hmmmmm'.......


15 posted on 03/31/2010 5:58:29 PM PDT by Viking2002 (Where the hell can I get a court injunction to keep my own government out of my life?!?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

NYT. No need to read.


16 posted on 03/31/2010 6:02:51 PM PDT by windsorknot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Still Thinking

The Weather Underground was overwhelmingly white, Christian, and male.


17 posted on 03/31/2010 6:03:15 PM PDT by muawiyah ("Git Out The Way")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Some basic political concepts might explain the thinking behind this nasty strategy, aside from Manhattan Paranoia/Woody Allen Syndrome, etc. Put simply, the White House would be wasting effort, time and money trying to convince those of us who cannot be persuaded, under any circumstances, ever, to support the re-election of this administration or any Member of Congress who belongs to the present majority on Jenkins Hill. Ordinarily, neither is this energy focused on those who likely to support those candidates under any circumstances. Instead, this energy is spent on the persuadable, but that's not what's happening here.

That the nomenklatura feels a need to hustle their own base with these appeals based on their characteristic bigotry might be a tip off about where they are actually losing support.

If McCain is defeated in the AZ GOP Primary... well, let's just say that, in warfare, the ultimate winners adapt to the field as it is and with its changes, not to the field as they would like it to be.

18 posted on 03/31/2010 6:04:37 PM PDT by Prospero (non est ad astra mollis e terris via)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
The F.B.I.’s raids against members of a Michigan-based Christian militia over the weekend added to concerns about rising far-right activity across the country.

I'm more concerned about rising government activity

19 posted on 03/31/2010 6:18:25 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Seriously? The white and male parts yes, but I had no idea most of them identified as Christian.


20 posted on 03/31/2010 6:25:54 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
gearing up for Martial Law - no election.

Meanwhile - nothing to see here...and you wont as they are closed communities. Know of any American closed communities?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebg6AFylios

repeated all over this country - even the women are being taught how to slit throats.

http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/known-terrorist-training-camps-in-the-u-s-map/

watch the training starting about minute 4

Can you imagine if, back in 1940+, there were Nazi training camps across this country? Better start to speak, live "under the radar."

So our muzzie POtus (POS for short) is going after the Christians and leaving his friends alone - will they be the ‘generals’ of obyummers “Private Security Force” -

21 posted on 03/31/2010 6:27:33 PM PDT by maine-iac7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Viking2002

Yep, these Hutaree “wannabees” were exactly that...”Low Hanging Fruit”, and they got busted...

When it all goes down...There will be plenty who have taken care of business “on the pot” and will be of the right frame of mind and purpose for the “change you can believe in”...

The ultimate gut check question will be...

“What are you willing to do about it, and what are you prepared to sacrifice for it?”

To me there will be plenty who know where they stand, and can answer that when the time comes...Others will be the fodder and additional “low hangers” you probably won’t have to worry much about...It’s a shame, but that’s their business, not mine...


22 posted on 03/31/2010 6:33:49 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus sayin')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well, let’s face it; it has been overplayed all the way back to the Democratic primaries.

In his own words, “I’m the President.”, which means he was elected despite the issue of race.

Sorry, pal. Deal from another deck.


23 posted on 03/31/2010 6:34:58 PM PDT by incredulous joe ("Live Free or Fight!!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hmmm and how many reports do we see of the FBI taking down members of MS13 (or insert gang of choice with many illegal immigrants)with such feverish reporting?
I’d bet many of us would be safer around these nine Christian right wing extremists than around nine members of a street gang.


24 posted on 03/31/2010 6:35:04 PM PDT by ebersole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well I want to know about rising Left Wing Extemists and you know they are out there.


25 posted on 03/31/2010 6:36:34 PM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: maine-iac7
Also - in Virginia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByAAEOqVDXM&NR=1

Mostly African American Muslims from all over the world - their leader the Sheik involved in Pearl’ beheading...

obyummers generals for his “National Security Force”?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaAVJITx1Y

anyone doubt we are under siege?

26 posted on 03/31/2010 6:37:31 PM PDT by maine-iac7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
No agency on Earth has the potential for abuse held by government in general. It is wise and neccessary to distrust government and scrutinize every iota of government's activities and interests.

Too many people tend to be lulled into viewing government as a loving parent, government isn't, and can't be.

Governments first concern is for social order, and this is often at odds with individual rights. Freedom is inefficient and messy, tyranny is sleek and efficient, and a lot more attractive to those charged with keeping order.

===============================================

"I believe that liberty is the only genuinely valuable thing that men have invented, at least in the field of government, in a thousand years. I believe that it is better to be free than to be not free, even when the former is dangerous and the latter safe. I believe that the finest qualities of man can flourish only in free air – that progress made under the shadow of the policeman's club is false progress, and of no permanent value. I believe that any man who takes the liberty of another into his keeping is bound to become a tyrant, and that any man who yields up his liberty, in however slight the measure, is bound to become a slave".

H. L. Mencken

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master."

- George Washington

27 posted on 03/31/2010 6:46:54 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT,NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Marty62

“Hey, Times, Your a waste of trees and you have NO influence anymore. Just more leftie BS.”

Just look at the comments after the artical to see where this is going. Semper Fi


28 posted on 03/31/2010 6:51:27 PM PDT by gunner03
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Whenever leftists come into power they start seeing domestic enemies around every corner and under every bush. They need enemies, they need a steady supply of Goldsteins to fuel their power grabs - if they can’t find any, they’ll manufacture them.


29 posted on 03/31/2010 6:52:22 PM PDT by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/1980)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Viking2002

There are groups out in the hinterlands too smart to be infiltrated or even easily observed. They are nothing at all like the naieve and unsophisticated Hutaree.


30 posted on 03/31/2010 6:53:05 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT,NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: maine-iac7

“Can you imagine if, back in 1940+, there were Nazi training camps across this country?”

There were, called Bund Camps. Even had machine gun drill.


31 posted on 03/31/2010 6:57:36 PM PDT by gunner03
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Whever I feel myself getting disgusted with all these Democrats playing with the levers of power, I think of all those “brilliant” people out there who voted for them.

IMHO


32 posted on 03/31/2010 7:13:31 PM PDT by ripley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: stevie_d_64

One of these times, they are going to hit some 1%ers and Waco is going to look like a summer camp. There was word of this on Friday evening and they didn’t raid till Saturday. Could have been bad. I am sure the MM will not be cought unaware the next time command trailers and bunch of out of town cops show up in the local area.


33 posted on 03/31/2010 7:26:58 PM PDT by ClayinVA ("Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: ripley
I think of all those “brilliant” people out there who voted for them.

I had to spend time with one of them tonight. I don't get it. The person used words like social justice, fair, high costs..What my brain heard was "Free Pie for All." "Everyone deserves Free Stuff." I was ready to vomit.

34 posted on 03/31/2010 7:37:22 PM PDT by sockmonkey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Tomorrow I think I will go join a militia and split on a “democrat” and call him racial slurs. Might as well since were getting blamed for it anyway.


35 posted on 03/31/2010 7:44:06 PM PDT by lwd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sockmonkey
Well if your company hasn't left yet. Ask them how it feels to be using the term “Social Justice” as one woman did describing Hitlers policies in Germany as he was coming to power.

All dictators and tyrants find the term “social Justice” a convenient way to sucker the uneducated into the foal.

36 posted on 03/31/2010 8:03:30 PM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: lwd
Tomorrow I think I will go join a militia and split on a “democrat” and call him racial slurs. Might as well since were getting blamed for it anyway.

No, no, no. Spray air freshener on him and call him a 'turdblossom' and tell him you did it because Socialism stinks. If that makes the news, that should cause all kinds of confusion among the MSM, because, as you probably know, 'turdblossom' was a pejorative that the Left loved to use against Karl Rove.

37 posted on 03/31/2010 8:09:04 PM PDT by Post Toasties
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: lwd
Tomorrow I think I will go join a militia and split on a “democrat” and call him racial slurs. Might as well since were getting blamed for it anyway.

No, no, no. Spray air freshener on him and call him a 'turdblossom' and tell him you did it because Socialism stinks. If that makes the news, that should cause all kinds of confusion among the MSM, because, as you probably know, 'turdblossom' was a pejorative that the Left loved to use against Karl Rove.

38 posted on 03/31/2010 8:10:34 PM PDT by Post Toasties
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

The New York Times is saying the Branch Davidians were “right wing extremists”?


39 posted on 03/31/2010 8:15:06 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Why won’t the NY Times hurry up and die?


40 posted on 03/31/2010 8:16:20 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Here's what I posted on the NYT blog:

In some ways, we are in a societal situation analogous to that near the beginning of the Clinton administration when it began an overzealous campaign against militia groups and revoked the Posse Comitatus Act, employing military hardware against civilians in actions that resulted in the deaths of nearly a hundred men, women and children at the Branch Davidian compound at Waco.

The Clinton Administration's actions at Waco was a primary inciting cause for Timothy McVeigh's bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City two years later.

Now, it seems Democrats have forgotten the lessons of history and are once again lunging at the leash to make martyrs of what they please to regard as extremists. The signs are there with the MSM and the 0bama Administration actively working to stereotype and marginalize entire classes of society who share little except a willingness to publicly dissent from aspects of the Federal Government with which they disagree.

The responsible course for the MSM and the Federal Government is clear: put away the pitchforks and torches and do nothing to inflame the situation - cease all efforts to mischaracterize and marginalize the attitudes and beliefs of groups such as Tea Partiers and Militias forthwith. If such efforts continue, then it is reasonable to believe that those in power in Washington and the MSM outlets actually want to encourage and incite new incidents such as Waco and Oklahoma City for political reasons which would make the political forces behind such actions unworthy of their offices.

41 posted on 03/31/2010 11:20:30 PM PDT by Post Toasties
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

April Fools.


42 posted on 04/01/2010 2:49:18 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union. Then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Captain Peter Blood
Well I want to know about rising Left Wing Extemists and you know they are out there.

Most of them are in the White House, Congress, and the Senate.

43 posted on 04/01/2010 2:51:02 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union. Then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Viking2002

Did you see this from the other day?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2481252/posts


44 posted on 04/01/2010 3:21:14 AM PDT by EBH (Our First Right...."it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Captain Peter Blood
Most of the indicted militia members accused of being anti-government extremists have active voting records, a check with area voter registration offices showed yesterday. One is a registered Democrat, and the party affiliations of the rest could not be determined. Jacob J. Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio, voted as a Democrat in the 2004 and 2008 primary elections, and in 10 other elections since 2000. Voters' political affiliations in Ohio are determined by which party's ballot they request during even-year primary elections.

Democrat militia

45 posted on 04/01/2010 4:32:40 PM PDT by Jaidyn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Jaidyn

Touche!!!!!!!!!!!


46 posted on 04/01/2010 6:16:57 PM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson