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Obama Admin. Mulling National Sales Tax: 'Value Added Tax' Has People Screaming To Heck With 'Vat'
WCBS-TV ^ | April 7, 2010 | Marcia Kramer

Posted on 04/07/2010 3:11:00 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

A taxing development surfaced on Wednesday.

White House economic advisor Paul Volcker is calling for a new national sales tax -- a value added tax or "vat" -- to help close the deficit.

But as CBS 2 HD found out area residents are saying "vat chance."

Talk about starting a tax revolt. Volcker's call for a new national sales tax -- on top of the state and local sales taxes we pay now -- got a loud Bronx cheer from just about everyone.

"That's crazy. That really is crazy. Why would need any more taxes than we already have?" said Kathy Merritt of Watchung, N.J.

"It's a bad idea. New Yorkers are struggling as it is already. We don't need that. We need incentives, breaks, jobs," East New York's Lee Santiago said.

"They're trying to make those of us who have a few bucks poor so everyone will be poor and everyone will be the same," added Charlotte Wein of Midtown.

Here's what the former mayor of Yonkers said when CBS 2 HD into him on the street:

"The Obama administration continues to be extremely out of touch with mainstream America. We're over-taxed so it's just a continuation of his far left, extreme left, agenda and I think it's a disaster for New York and actually the rest of the country, too," John Spencer said.

The new so-called value added tax would come on top of state and local taxes. Economists say the tax would also be imposed on manufacturers and producers.

"You don't need a PhD in economics to figure out that what the producer is going to do is pass this along to the customer," said Ken Goldstein of The Conference Board.

So if the vat is 10 percent, that sweater you pay $31.50 for today would have and additional:

*50 cents in taxes added on by the yarn supplier

*$1 in taxes added on by the manufacturer

*50 cents added on by the wholesaler

*$1.50 added on by the retailer

Now the sweater costs $35 plus state and local sales taxes, which is 8.75 percent in New York City.

One thing that may keep the Obama administration from imposing the tax this year is that every member of Congress is up for election come November. But next year, all bets are off.

Jose Barro, an economist for the Manhattan Institute, told CBS 2 HD that the vat might work if the government agreed to reduce personal income and corporate taxes at the same time.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 0bamarigged; bho44; bhoeconomy; bhofascism; democrats; economy; liberalfascism; obama; obamarigged; rigged; taxcheatparty; taxes; valueaddedtax; vat
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Then cap and trade, then amnesty, etc. By the time they're done, the Tea Party will be everybody but the 10% hard left.
1 posted on 04/07/2010 3:11:00 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Just vote them OUT!


2 posted on 04/07/2010 3:12:39 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (JUST VOTE THEM OUT! teapartyexpress.org)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Jose Barro, an economist for the Manhattan Institute, told CBS 2 HD that the vat might work if the government agreed to reduce personal income and corporate taxes at the same time.

Does anyone see that happening?

3 posted on 04/07/2010 3:13:00 PM PDT by lowbridge (Rep. Dingell: "Its taken a long time.....to control the people.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No VAT for FAT CATS!

They want VAT— then the income tax has to go.


4 posted on 04/07/2010 3:13:25 PM PDT by exit82 (Democrats are the enemy of freedom. Sarah Palin is our Esther.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

National Sales tax has me screaming: “To Hell with a National Sales Tax.”


5 posted on 04/07/2010 3:14:01 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: lowbridge

Eliminate. Not reduce. And Cap the VAT. Otherwise. NO B.O.


6 posted on 04/07/2010 3:14:06 PM PDT by Blogger
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To: exit82

Problem is with most nation’s you get a VAT and the income tax. Like Canada and Great Britain.


7 posted on 04/07/2010 3:15:12 PM PDT by Munson
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Well, I know how hard-core liberal minds would see this: Obama is doing what is right, even risking his popularity. He is a true statesman.

Whenever they get impressed by political development, we can be sure that we are in DEEP trouble. LOL.

8 posted on 04/07/2010 3:15:28 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; ...

The list, ping


9 posted on 04/07/2010 3:16:10 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Obama’s Health Care Fraud didn’t trigger civil unrest and violence, so he’s got to dig deeper until he finds something that will start the violence he seeks.


10 posted on 04/07/2010 3:16:28 PM PDT by savedbygrace (You are only leading if people follow. Otherwise, you just wandered off.)
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To: lowbridge
Does anyone see that happening?

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

11 posted on 04/07/2010 3:16:33 PM PDT by OB1kNOb (When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If this keeps up, a lot of folks are simply going to leave. As with the parable of the men at the restaurant (copied from another thread):

“Suppose that every day 10 men go to a restaurant for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If it was paid the way we pay our taxes, the first four men would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.”

The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.” Now dinner for the 10 only costs $80. The first four are unaffected. They still eat for free. Can you figure out how to divvy up the $20 savings among the remaining six so that everyone gets his fair share? The men realize that $20 divided by 6 is $3.33, but if they subtract that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meal.

The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same percentage, being sure to give each a break, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so now the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of $59.

Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20,” complained the sixth man, pointing to the tenth, “and he got $7!”

“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got seven times more than me!”

“That’s true,” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor.”

Then, the nine men surrounded the tenth man (the richest one, paying the most) and beat him up. The next night the richest man didn’t show up for dinner, so now the nine men sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They were $52 short!

“And that, boys, girls and college instructors, is how America’s tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table any more. There are lots of good restaurants in Switzerland and the Caribbean.”

If the tax system becomes any more punitive, many are simply going to eat at different restaurants, and the burden will suddenly fall on many who never realized how much of a free ride they were getting. That sort of thing won’t end well.


12 posted on 04/07/2010 3:16:45 PM PDT by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: Blogger

Create a monstrous deficient and then say you need tax money. Brilliant!!


13 posted on 04/07/2010 3:16:59 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (What)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

As long as nobody who makes less than 250k pays not one penny. Just like he promised. What a Collassal Liar!


14 posted on 04/07/2010 3:17:07 PM PDT by screaminsunshine (i)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Hell with vat”


15 posted on 04/07/2010 3:17:56 PM PDT by angelcindy ("If you follow the crowd,you get no further than the crowd")
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To: savedbygrace

The violence is going to come after they get voted out in the form of hearings, trials and jail time.


16 posted on 04/07/2010 3:18:22 PM PDT by DarthVader (Liberalism is the politics of EVIL whose time of judgment has come. Judgment Day: Nov 2, 2010)
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To: lowbridge

No, not any more than they’ll cut their wasteful spending.


17 posted on 04/07/2010 3:19:04 PM PDT by GunsareOK
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To: lowbridge
Does anyone see that happening?

Umm...no. It would negate the reason they'd be instituting the VAT in the first place.

18 posted on 04/07/2010 3:19:51 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In the 1970s, there was a congressman from CA(?) by the name of Al Ullman who proposed a VAT and went around the country selling this tax that, according to him, would not add “a single penny of new taxes”. Most people heard that part and wanted to know why we needed the VAT.

Needless to say, neither he nor his VAT were supported by the voting public and both went on to live in obscurity. He wasn’t re-elected.


19 posted on 04/07/2010 3:20:29 PM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: screaminsunshine

How about we consider it AFTER we get our $2,400 per family reduction for health costs,


20 posted on 04/07/2010 3:21:12 PM PDT by AGreatPer (Impeach Obama)
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To: DustyMoment

Oregon, not California.


21 posted on 04/07/2010 3:21:44 PM PDT by Publius (The prudent man sees the evil and hides himself; the simple pass on and are punished.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hey, if the USA wants to be “cool” like the Europeans, then a VAT is what it will take to make us cool.

In my travels I have noted those socialist countries with ‘healthcare’ also have VAT of 20% or so.

The dingbats who voted for Obama are going to find their bottle of White Lightning just went up in price. Sorry dingbats. Nothing in life in free.


22 posted on 04/07/2010 3:21:56 PM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
We need to get the deficit under control. I favor doing it by not spending the way we are. Increased revenues to the government just give it more of a base to overspend from. If the VAT passes, along with the scheduled 2011 tax increases (repeal of the Bush tax cuts), and the medical tax increases on investment income, there will be tremendous headwinds on teh economy.

If the spending keeps up at projected levels without the tax increases, we'll get an even bigger crash down the road when we can't roll over debt, the dollar crashes, and inflation goes through the roof.

23 posted on 04/07/2010 3:23:17 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Bend Ovah for the VAT up yer wallet!


24 posted on 04/07/2010 3:23:26 PM PDT by Candor7 (Now's the time to ante up aginst the Obama Fascist Junta ( member NRA))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No VAT until they completely abolish income and corporate taxes.


25 posted on 04/07/2010 3:23:30 PM PDT by BuckyKat
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Jose Barro, an economist for the Manhattan Institute, told CBS 2 HD that the vat might work if the government agreed to reduce personal income and corporate taxes at the same time.”

The history of taxation in Europe and the history of both the US income tax and SS tax (both of which started out very small on a very small fraction of the population) does not make one optimistic about this prospect.

Indeed the history of government and taxation in western democracies generally illustrates that Americans’ distrust of government is well-placed. Governments inevitably over-promise and under-deliver, meaning that well-intentioned government programs inevitably cost more and deliver less than originally promised. This results in ever-higher levels of taxation.

Ironically, the countries that have adopted the most sensible approach to taxation—flat taxes on consumption—are former communist countries. Once they threw off the chains of totalitarian rule, these countries often adopted flat-tax systems that minimized the burden on the average citizen and inhibited the temptation by government to use the tax system for social engineering—i.e., awarding tax breaks for favored activities or interests.

An organization committed to freedom like the Manhattan Institute should be using its megaphone to resist VAT, not offering rationalizations for its adoption.


26 posted on 04/07/2010 3:23:55 PM PDT by DrC
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To: Jim Robinson
IMPEACH THE AMERICA-KILLER
27 posted on 04/07/2010 3:23:57 PM PDT by historyrepeatz
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well it’s nice that you have an opinion, but we won.

Now you’ll pay the tax and smile while you’re doing it.

-your friends on the left


28 posted on 04/07/2010 3:24:21 PM PDT by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
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To: Presbyterian Reporter

Food and Malt Liquor will be exempt!


29 posted on 04/07/2010 3:24:27 PM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"They're trying to make those of us who have a few bucks poor so everyone will be poor and everyone will be the same," added Charlotte Wein of Midtown. "

DING DING DING!! We have a winner!
30 posted on 04/07/2010 3:24:58 PM PDT by Lucky9teen (I'll just say the 2nd amendment to the Constitution is there for a reason!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Run spending through the roof then say we have no choice but to levy gigantic taxes, but we will give refunds to the underclass so they don’t get hurt. Vote for Obama.

LOL ... redistribution, reparations ...


31 posted on 04/07/2010 3:25:28 PM PDT by Tarpon ( ...Rude crude socialist Obama depends on ignorance to force his will on people)
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To: AGreatPer

O and the Crats have got to be thrown out..QUICK!


32 posted on 04/07/2010 3:26:01 PM PDT by screaminsunshine (i)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

And people thought gov’t run healthcare was gonna be free!


33 posted on 04/07/2010 3:26:18 PM PDT by KansasGirl
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Funny that the people whining about this the loudest probably don’t pay ANY federal income tax.


34 posted on 04/07/2010 3:27:23 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Alfred E. Neuman for President! Oh, wait a minute ...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Knowing liberals - it won’t be a “VAT” in place of income tax - it’ll be a VAT PLUS income tax. What was that promise Obama made about not raising taxes on those making less than a certain amount. I’ll bet the New York Times has already forgotten he ever made such a promise...


35 posted on 04/07/2010 3:27:35 PM PDT by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?area=dam&lang=eng)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

President Body Odor is stinkin up the joint.


36 posted on 04/07/2010 3:28:07 PM PDT by Danae ( The sleeping Giant is awake)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

NY has two open Senate seats and there is still no Republican running for either seat? These people vote Dem and they expect the Dems will stop trying to take everything they have?


37 posted on 04/07/2010 3:28:26 PM PDT by Frantzie (McCain=Obama's friend. McCain called AMERICANS against amnesty - "racists")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Are campaign “donations” subject to the VAT?


38 posted on 04/07/2010 3:28:41 PM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Presbyterian Reporter

You meant to say Night Train or Thunderbird, right?? Possibly MD 20/20???


39 posted on 04/07/2010 3:28:43 PM PDT by eyrish69 (Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is finally done.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Damn VATscists.


40 posted on 04/07/2010 3:29:23 PM PDT by SoCalConstitutionalist
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Do it then cap and trade see how far they can push?


41 posted on 04/07/2010 3:30:16 PM PDT by Cheetahcat (Zero the Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If enacted, this will absolutely kill businesses (with even more massive layoffs) and spending by most everyone will come to a screeching halt. Predictions are for $4.00 a gallon gas by summertime. Combine that with the VAT, amnesty, cap and trade (extremely higher utility bills) and people will be so on-the-edge. or pushed over it.


42 posted on 04/07/2010 3:30:25 PM PDT by MamaDearest
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Keep in mind that the National Retail Sales Tax (NRST) component of the FairTax legislation (HR 25) is a RETAIL only sales tax and is not a VAT.

The FairTax abolishes the IRS tax code (every federal tax, income, cap gains, business profits, everything) in toto and requires repeal of the 16th Amendment within 7 years.

Again the FairTax ‘removes’ all taxes that accumulate business-to-business (B2B) in the production and supply chains and then ‘replaces’ them at the ***retail end*** with an NRST.

So the FairTax is not and cannot ever be a VAT. Keep that in mind as we move forward to repeal the 16th Amendment, we will need the FairTax to fund government.

This will become a larger issue as peoople gradually learn that it is the 16th Amendment by which the courts will reluctantly uphold Obamacare, hence we need to repeal it.

As this issue gets broadcast, do not allow the Left to blur and confuse the distinction between a VAT and the FairTax.

More info that the FAIRTAX IS NOT A VAT is found here (6th caret item from bottom):

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers


43 posted on 04/07/2010 3:30:36 PM PDT by Hostage
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To: KansasGirl

Exactly! Weren’t we told that the Obamanation bills were going to reduce federal spending??? Riiiiight. Is that the Brooklyn bridge I see up for sale?


44 posted on 04/07/2010 3:30:37 PM PDT by Danae ( The sleeping Giant is awake)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We do need new taxes but we dont need a vat or a sales tax. wha twe need is a tax on the people who got us into this mess.We need taxes on news print. FcCC licenses and network agreements with affiliates should be taxed as property. Taxes also on legal profits by lawyers. Taxes on Berkenstocks, tied dyed shirts. Also taxes on entertainement royalties and every other tax we can think of on the people who gave us this mess.


45 posted on 04/07/2010 3:32:15 PM PDT by bilhosty (Don' t tax people tax newsprint)
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To: MamaDearest
Predictions are for $4.00 a gallon gas by summertime.

I hadn't heard that. Looks like I picked a very good time to start working from home.

46 posted on 04/07/2010 3:33:18 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler ("There is no distinctly Native American criminal class...save Congress." - Mark Twain)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’m sure DemocRAT congressmen will want to vote on this in the time left before the midterm elecitons.


47 posted on 04/07/2010 3:35:02 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1

This will give you all the warm and fuzzy’s.....

48 posted on 04/07/2010 3:35:50 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: lowbridge
...if the government agreed to reduce personal income and corporate taxes at the same time.

Of course they'll agree to that.

"Cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye"

Until the time comes to actually reduce the other taxes.

"Oops. So sorry. We really meant to. But, economic circumstances are so dire we just can't afford to right now. We'll re-consider next year."

49 posted on 04/07/2010 3:40:19 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Throw them out! Then, Impeach the Punk!


50 posted on 04/07/2010 3:45:38 PM PDT by RedMDer (0 = one D Ten T : Recycle Congress in 2010, 2012... Forward with Confidence! Forward!)
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