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Polish Leader, 96 Others Dead in Russia Jet Crash
foxnews ^

Posted on 04/10/2010 10:39:12 AM PDT by traumer

The plane that crashed, killing Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military and civilian leaders, ignored Russian air traffic control's instructions, officials said Saturday.

The presidential plane crashed as it came in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia, killing 97.

Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev, which was taking the president, his wife and staff to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre in Katyn forest of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.

"The cause of the plane crash was apparently an error by the crew during the approach to landing," Russian state news agency RIA Novosti quoted an unnamed official in the Russian region of Smolensk, the area where the plane went down.

Authorities said they found Kaczynski's body and both black boxes at the site of the crash. related links

*

Obama, World Leaders React to 'Unthinkable Tragedy' *

Polish Lawmakers Regroup After President's Death in Crash *

FAST FACTS: Polish Politicians Who Died in Russia Crash *

Leaders express sorrow at Polish president's death

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military, civilian leaders are among 97 killed after plane crashes while landing in Russia. video Tragedy Strikes Poland

Polish president dies in plane crash

Air Force Gen. Alexander Alyoshin confirmed that the pilot disregarded instructions to fly to another airfield.

"At a distance of 1.5 kilometers [0.9 miles] the air traffic control group discovered the crew had accelerated its downward descent and begun descending beneath its glide path," Alyoshin told Russian news agencies.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deathtoll; kaczynski; poland

1 posted on 04/10/2010 10:39:12 AM PDT by traumer
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To: traumer

“the crew had accelerated its downward descent and begun descending beneath its glide path... “

Wasn’t this scenario in one of the DIE HARD movies ??


2 posted on 04/10/2010 10:40:31 AM PDT by traumer
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To: traumer

Has Obama requested Putin’s permission to attend the memorial servies yet?


3 posted on 04/10/2010 10:41:54 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government -- Thomas Payne)
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To: traumer

yep


4 posted on 04/10/2010 10:43:36 AM PDT by PurVirgo (Smeg!)
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To: traumer

Geeze!!!  What a tragedy.

The newsers are greedily accepting, reporting and pushing this was an accident.  Very hasty conclusion considering the make and make up of the plane, the great responsibility of the Pilot and in advanced of any real investigation.  Seems rather convenient. 

The President of Poland and many cabinet members including the Chief of the Airforce, the Chief of the Army Staff, Commander of the Polish Navy, President of the National Bank, Head of the National Security Bureau, Secretary of State in the Office

 

What a target rich list. 

 

The National leadership wiped out?

 

The Pilot carrying such important people arrogantly risked his life and those of the most important people of Poland by attempting to land even though Ground Control told them the airport is closed to traffic due to fog and directed them to Moscow or another city? 

What pilot would do that and do so with the very important people on board.  His and their safety is paramount. 

The president, his wife and entourage  were en-route to a memorial service for the victims of the Katyn massacre which, in 1940, saw thousands of Polish prisoners of war murdered (primarily military officers), intellectuals, policemen, and other public servants by the Soviet NKVD 

That would not be embarrassing to Russia.  No not all. 

A former Soviet Pilot state commemorating the deaths of 20,000 of their own people at the hand of the Russians?  Why not have a keg a party as well. 

Poland watched in horror as the Russians, once again invaded another Soviet Pilot State, Georgia and desperately sought a missile defense system and membership in NATO for protection. 

Russia and Obama fixed that little problem by having the missile defense scrapped to appease Russian demands that they not be deployed.  Wonder why? 

 

Killed:

The President: Lech Kaczynski.  Part of the Solidarity Movement

His Wife: Maria Kaczynski

The National Bank President: Slawomir Skrzypek 

The Army Chief of Staff: Gen. Franciszek Gagor

Ryszard Kaczorowski, Polish Statesman and last President in exile during Solidarity

The Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremoer

 

Anna Walentynowicz, whose firing in August 1980 from the Lenin Shipyards in Gdansk sparked a workers' strike that spurred the eventual creation of the Solidarity freedom movement. 

96 Souls lost aboard the President's Plane

 

The President: Lech Kaczynski.  Part of the Solidarity Movement

His Wife: Maria Kaczynski

The National Bank President: Slawomir Skrzypek 

The Army Chief of Staff: Gen. Franciszek Gagor

Ryszard Kaczorowski, Polish Statesman and last President in exile during Solidarity

The Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremoer

 

    * Andrzej Błasik, Chief of the Polish Air Force

    * Krystyna Bochenek, Deputy Speaker of the Senatee

    * Archbishop Miron Chodakowski, Orthodox Ordinary of the Polish Army

    * Leszek Deptuła, member of the Sejm

    * Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm

    * Janina Fetlińska, member of the Senate

    * General Franciszek Gągor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff

    * Grażyna Gęsicka, member of the Sejm

    * Przemysław Gosiewski, member of the Sejm

    * Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

    * Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka, member of the Sejm

    * Sebastian Karpiniuk, member of the Sejm

    * Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta, Commander-in-chief of the Polish Navy

    * Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman for Citizen Rights

    * Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance

    * Aleksandra Natalli-Świat, member of the Sejm

    * Piotr Nurowski, President of the Polish Olympic Committee

    * Maciej Płażyński, President of the Polish Community Association

    * Tadeusz Płoski, bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army

    * Krzysztof Putra, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm

    * Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary-General of the Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites

    * Ryszard Rumianek, Rector of the Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University

    * Arkadiusz Rybicki, member of the Sejm

    * Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland

    * Władysław Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

    * Aleksander Szczygło, head of the National Security Bureau

    * Jerzy Szmajdziński, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm

    * Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz, member of the Sejm

    * Anna Walentynowicz, free trade union activist, member of Solidarity

    * Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm

    * Wiesław Woda, member of the Sejm

    * Edward Wojtas, member of the Sejm

    * Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

    * Stanisław Zając, member of the Senate 

Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary-General of Rada Ochrony Pamięci Walk i Męczeństwa

and several members of the Sejm. Sławomir Skrzypek 

The plane was refurbished and repaired last year, according to the general director of the company that performed the service. Alexei Gusev, the general director of Aviakor Factory, told CNN that the plane received major refurbishing and repair in December 2009.

5 posted on 04/10/2010 10:45:12 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: traumer

does soros have a shadow gov’t set up in poland? this seems just a little fishy to me. but that’s just me.


6 posted on 04/10/2010 10:45:38 AM PDT by florida red
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To: traumer
the air traffic control group discovered the crew had accelerated its downward descent...

Pilot named Muhammad?

7 posted on 04/10/2010 10:46:19 AM PDT by fullchroma (Obama: GET OUT OF MY DOCTOR'S OFFICE!)
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To: PurVirgo

8 posted on 04/10/2010 10:47:13 AM PDT by traumer
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To: traumer

If Poland had been smart, they would have requested American investigators be allowed to be involved immediately. But with this regime and current state of affairs, putin can pretty much do whatever he wants. We’ll just curl-up in the fetal position and whimper “Make it go away”.


9 posted on 04/10/2010 10:47:33 AM PDT by JoSixChip (It's time to embrace the madness! The sooner we default the sooner we can reorganize.)
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To: traumer

54th thread about this and counting. Way to go.


10 posted on 04/10/2010 10:49:39 AM PDT by 999replies (Thune/Rubio 2012)
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To: JoSixChip
WWSD ?
11 posted on 04/10/2010 10:50:31 AM PDT by traumer
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To: traumer

?


12 posted on 04/10/2010 10:51:35 AM PDT by JoSixChip (It's time to embrace the madness! The sooner we default the sooner we can reorganize.)
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To: traumer

Wow, the Poles were going to attend a service in memory of the Katyn Forest massacre...which was another example of Russian treachery.


13 posted on 04/10/2010 10:52:35 AM PDT by GoodDay (Palin for POTUS 2012)
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To: traumer
no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev

I wonder if they are trying to say the planes age somehow contributed to the crash. hmmmm

14 posted on 04/10/2010 10:56:20 AM PDT by chaos_5
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To: traumer

Has obumber even come out and issued a statement on this yet?


15 posted on 04/10/2010 10:57:15 AM PDT by JoSixChip (It's time to embrace the madness! The sooner we default the sooner we can reorganize.)
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To: traumer
Threes.

16 posted on 04/10/2010 10:57:37 AM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: traumer
Wasn’t this scenario in one of the DIE HARD movies ??

Die Hard 2 .... that's exactly how they did it ... just adjust the transmission form the airport and you think you're flying higher than you are in the fog

a sudden acceleration just before impact was likely the pilot trying to pull out

What if the Russian Tower gave them false altimeter setting info?

In the fog you might think you were approaching the airfield at a greater altitude than you actually were ... then .........

The reporting of altimeter setting information by an airport traffic control tower and/or by ATC Regional Centers is a routine requirement for safe en route (altitude separation) and terminal area (approach) navigation and has been a standard procedure for many years. Presently, each control tower has one or more precision aneroid or bourdon tube type barometric pressure sensing altimeter setting indicators (ASI) having accuracies on the order of ± 0.020 to ± .040 inches of mercury. Each sensor has to be calibrated periodically in accordance with its own calibration characteristic and this calibration "number" must be "greasepencilled" periodically on the face of the instrument and taken into account in the computation of the reported altimeter setting number. This task is difficult, time consuming and subject to human error. The altimeter setting indicator reading from such instruments is not readily converted into digital format for transmission throughout an airport for remote indication. It is often the situation that different calibration numbers must be added or subtracted from the instrument reading with respect to the various instruments at the airport, often resulting in discrepancies between altimeter settings communicated to aircraft from different sources at the same airport.

Schiphol airliner crash blamed on altimeter failure, pilot error

Investigators in The Netherlands have announced that last month's crash of a Boeing 737-800 was caused by a combination of an instrument failure and pilot error. Turkish Airlines Flight 1951 crashed upon approach to Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport, killing nine and injuring eighty of the 135 passengers and crew on board.

Pieter van Vollenhoven, head of the Dutch Safety Board, said yesterday that as the aircraft was at 1,950 feet the faulty altimeter indicated that the airliner's height was at minus eight feet. Because the autopilot and autothrottle were running from this flawed data the plane automatically reduced engine power as it would in the final seconds before landing.

The sensitive altimeter

The sensitive altimeter is the cockpit instrument that indicates the aircraft's altitude. The instrument is a refined aneroid barometer with a dial indicating height above a pre-set level rather than atmospheric pressure. The main component of such an instrument is a small, flexible, corrugated metal capsule from which the air has been partially evacuated — fitted with a metal closure or diaphragm. There is a spring within the capsule that applies a constant force to the bottom of the diaphragm, while atmospheric static pressure applies a counter force to the top, so that the diaphragm moves as atmospheric pressure changes. The movement of the pressure-sensing capsule is transferred and magnified — via a mechanical linkage or piezo-quartz component — to a dial pointer or pointers, or a digital display, which indicate the altitude reading. The static pressure is drawn from the aircraft's static vent, which may induce slight position errors due to aerodynamic effects around the vent.

The level in the atmosphere at which any particular pressure occurs is also dependent on temperature — as we saw in the 'Airspeed and the properties of air' module — but the altimeter does not sense the air temperature. Consequently, all altimeters are calibrated in accordance with the International Standard Atmosphere [ISA] model, which utilises a standard temperature lapse rate with height of 6.5 °C per km. The atmosphere in any region rarely corresponds to the ISA, so aneroid altimeters do not indicate totally accurate height. This is not that important, as true altitude can be calculated, in the rare circumstance that it is needed for terrain clearance purposes. There is no problem with air traffic management, in that all aircraft in the same region, with properly set (and functioning) altimeters, will be out by the same amount.

It is, of course, desirable to set the current local surface pressure into the altimeter by setting that reference pressure into a pressure-setting scale (known since the 1930s as the 'Kollsman Window'), which in turn resets the position of the height-indicating pointers against the dial. Or, if the aircraft is on the ground, the same result is achieved by turning the pressure-setting scale until the altimeter indicates the known airfield elevation. The altimeter in the image indicates an altitude of 1400 feet with the baro-scale set at 29.9 inches of mercury [in/Hg] — equivalent to 1013 hPa. If the altitude was 11 400 feet, the pointer with the inverted triangle on the end would be past the figure 1 on the image, indicating +10 000 feet.

In Australia, all barometric pressures are reported in hectopascals [equivalent to millibars]; and in the USA in units of inches of mercury [in/Hg =33.86 hPa]. The sub-scale setting range provided in modern altimeters is from 850 to 1050 hPa.

Altitude encoding

In some flight conditions, an aircraft must operate a transponder for traffic separation purposes. The transponder obtains altitude data from a special altitude encoding altimeter or from a blind encoder; the latter being an electronic device that obtains current atmospheric pressure from the static pressure line and the reference pressure used is preset at 1013.2 hPa. That same reference pressure is used for the altitude encoding function of the altimeter, thus the transponder broadcasts pressure altitude only. .

17 posted on 04/10/2010 11:06:06 AM PDT by Elle Bee
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To: traumer

Note to self: Do not fly on Russian aircraft.


18 posted on 04/10/2010 11:19:44 AM PDT by Wally_Kalbacken
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To: GoodDay
Wow, the Poles were going to attend a service in memory of the Katyn Forest massacre...which was another example of Russian treachery.

Rather ironic. Perhaps the Russian secret police are adding to their list of massacres.

19 posted on 04/10/2010 11:24:14 AM PDT by stripes1776 ("That if gold rust, what shall iron do?" --Chaucer)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

Perhaps Putin will insist that Obama travel on one of their planes......


20 posted on 04/10/2010 11:40:58 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (Mike Mathis is my name,opinions are my own,subject to flaming when deserved!)
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To: stripes1776; GoodDay

Perfect way to send a message to Poland about Russian massacres by powerful Russian/Soviet forces.


21 posted on 04/10/2010 11:43:22 AM PDT by FrdmLvr ( 0bama: Our first AINO president)
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To: traumer
..."The cause of the plane crash was apparently an error by the crew during the approach to landing," Russian state news agency RIA Novosti quoted an unnamed official...

Riiight.

22 posted on 04/10/2010 11:46:16 AM PDT by FReepaholic (I'm in my head and can't get out.)
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To: traumer; Vendome

It’s absolutely insane to have all these very high ranking officials flying on the same plane. Most governments, and most corporations of any significant size, have clear policies in place prohibiting this sort of travel arrangement. Either Poland didn’t have such a policy, or they simply flouted it. Just insane.


23 posted on 04/10/2010 12:55:43 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker
In front of the Presidential Palace in Warsaw today:


24 posted on 04/10/2010 12:57:26 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: traumer
Jeebus, how stupid is that?
When I was in senior mgt many years ago, no more than 2 officers of the company were allowed to fly on the same flight for this very reason.
Having all those important people on the same flight was really dumb......
25 posted on 04/10/2010 1:11:49 PM PDT by Riodacat (Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.)
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To: traumer

who is that?


26 posted on 04/10/2010 3:19:03 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: Elle Bee
Aircraft also use GPS so the Russians could have adjusted the Wide Area Augmentation System to give a false reading.

but then other planes in the area would have noticed the changes.

27 posted on 04/10/2010 3:27:16 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: Elle Bee

Another thing to look at they should check the flight path and what altitude they supposed to been flying at. If say they supposed to have been flying at 30,000 feet and was actually at 28,000 feet then someone could have been tampering with their instruments.


28 posted on 04/10/2010 3:41:20 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: Steve Van Doorn
they would have cleared air space for a flight with a head of state aboard .... the altimeter reads the transmitted air pressure mark from the airfield upon approach ... wouldn't have affected them in the air

Just hit the signal for that flight and then put it right back

.

29 posted on 04/10/2010 7:02:47 PM PDT by Elle Bee
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To: Elle Bee

Yes, they would also have a GPS on board which that could be altered to but other planes would be affected.


30 posted on 04/10/2010 8:16:08 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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