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Government Informant: Delta Force Involved In Waco Shoot-Out (1999)
http://www.mcsm.org/waco14.html ^ | September 6, 1999

Posted on 04/19/2010 6:06:14 PM PDT by Sybeck1

September 6, 1999

WASHINGTON--A former government officer has told investigators that members of the secret Army unit Delta Force said they participated in a shoot-out during the final assault on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

The witness, according to congressional sources, has already named names; and will soon offer his account under oath!

The development caused panic and confusion at the top levels of the Justice Department and the FBI over the holiday weekend, leaving one top official scrambling for details.

FBI Director Freeh has demanded a full briefing, one agency source divulged late Monday.

Developing...

Meanwhile, congressional investigators are growing convinced that infrared film taken by an FBI surveillance aircraft at 9,000 feet on the final day of the Waco standoff does appear to show U.S. armed forces firing into the church compound.

"We are looking at the footage frame-by-frame... most of us have grown convinced that it does show snipers unloading from the rear of a tank," an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee told the DRUDGE REPORT.

Former FBI agent Richard Schwein, a supervisor at Waco, said charges of government gunfire were "absolutely false."

"False, absolutely false," he said on FOX NEWS SUNDAY. "No FBI agent fired any rounds from their weapons at Waco. There were no Delta Forces or special operations soldiers in an operational capacity at Waco." "And everyone on our side, and the FBI's side, were in armored vehicles, so I don't know how you'd have films of anybody firing into the back of the building. No one was on foot, because we had no body armor that would stop the rounds they were firing."

WAIVER WONDER

Use of active military personnel against civilians without presidential decree is a violation of federal law.

Late last month White House spokesman Joe Lockhart first told reporters that he had no information on the waiver issue.

[August 26, 1999; Thursday]

Q Joe, why was the Army's Delta Force present on the scene the day that Waco burned?

MR. LOCKHART: I would refer you to the Justice Department. I don't have information on the Delta Force one way or the other.

Q The reason I asked is because since the law prohibits the military being used against civilians, I wondered whether the White House either, A, requested it or, B, President Clinton signed a waiver for it.

MR. LOCKHART: I don't have any information on that. Again, I'd refer you to Justice. I don't have any independent information on their role, if any.

The next day, when asked again about any possible waiver, Lockhart offered more details.

[August 27, 1999; Friday]

Q What did the White House know about the potential operational involvement of Delta Force in the Waco siege?

MR. LOCKHART: I think that's an issue that was dealt with at the time. And as we said yesterday, the president was not asked to sign a waiver, nor were we aware of any activity that would have required a waiver. But, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned, Lockhart may still not have the full story.

One witness has told congressional investigators that in April of 1993, in response to a press inquiry, a White House spokesman stated privately that a "waiver is on the president's desk that would have authorized military intervention.

A development that will cause battle during fresh rounds of congressional hearings.

FILED BY MATT DRUDGE

This Information Is From The Drudge Report


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: clinton; clintontruthfile; deltaforce; democratcorruption; democrats; drudge; fbi; specialforces; waco; wacoplusten
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To: TruthHound
"Truthhound"

There's a difference in advocating for the creep Koresh and recognizing that the U.S. Government murdered men, women and children (which you feign to defend), investigated itself, and declared its actions just. It was a known fact that Koresh was a regular in town and could have been arrested without incident. Assuming the government story is correct, that the people wanted a showdown (children also?) they could have been starved out. Instead they got massive doses of tear gas which killed them, then they got burned... those who were not hit by the snipers. It was the kind of action that belongs in the Soviet Union, not America. You 'hole.

51 posted on 04/19/2010 10:12:54 PM PDT by danieldu
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To: donhunt
No witnesses.

And they used bulldozers to push any evidence of government culpability into the fire.



52 posted on 04/19/2010 10:19:55 PM PDT by zeugma (Waco taught me everything I needed to know about the character of the U.S. Government.)
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To: Psalm 144
Murder by government, on television, to inspire fear.

It backfired.

In what way?

Was anyone from the government ever prosecuted?

I didn't think so.

53 posted on 04/19/2010 10:23:37 PM PDT by zeugma (Waco taught me everything I needed to know about the character of the U.S. Government.)
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To: zeugma

It backfired in that the result did not inspire fear, but rather increased scepticism and opposition to paramilitary law enforcement.

As for prosecutions, there is no statute of limitations on murder.

Time will tell.


54 posted on 04/19/2010 10:28:09 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (The bureaucrat is the natural enemy of liberty.)
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To: Allegra

Yep, the govmint did a great job of cleaning up after their mess.


55 posted on 04/19/2010 10:39:00 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Papa of two new Army Brats! Congrats to my Soldier son and his wife.)
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To: RockyMtnMan

Yes, it was....BTW Westly Clark was their commanding General.....hhhhhmmmmmmm

Branch Dividians were several bubbles off center in their beliefs, but where’s the law against that? Gun violations as a justification? Guns don’t burn.... Where’s the proof of that? When is killing that number of people justified by gun law violations?

Just on the face of it, both Reno and Clinton should have gone down for what they did in Waco. If it were Bush the press and the Dems would have been after his @ss, and have gotten it too. Clinton/Reno.....Pass!


56 posted on 04/19/2010 11:06:57 PM PDT by Forty-Niner ((.))
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To: Sybeck1

I remeber the Republican controlled hearings after the Waco and Ruby Ridge mass murders. They totally covered up all the crimes like they were a part of the Clinton/Reno mafia.

I was naive and so shocked; I worked so hard for Republicans to take the Congress from the Rats. I was shocked by the Republicans being loyal to the criminal communist party during the hearing. The snipers - great. No one punished for mass murder! They would let democrats get away with torturing and murdering their babies as it served their power. Sick stinks! I know what Washington power is now. A bi-partisan criminal organization. We are the targets.


57 posted on 04/19/2010 11:26:07 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: TruthHound
Which government official or covert agent forced David Koresh to walk up to multitudes of parents in his cult and say, “to prove your faith, you must let me screw your 13-year-old daughter.”? Remind me.

Therefore all those children and their mothers should be burned alive?

Nobody disagrees that Koresh needed to be taken down, it's all the nasty details about the how and when.

58 posted on 04/19/2010 11:31:11 PM PDT by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
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To: Sybeck1

In the beginning...........as recordings of rabbits being butchered were played over loudspeakers directed towards the compound, agents of the government mooned those inside. One little girl asked her mother,”Are they going to kill us?”

At the end..............the top expert at reading FLIR recordings was called in. Upon completion of his investigation, (it was leaked that he had determined that the government had fired on the compound) the FLIR expert conveniently committed “suicide”.


59 posted on 04/19/2010 11:46:54 PM PDT by AwesomePossum
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To: TruthHound

You sound like a gummint agent attempting to mitigate the sins of gummint by justifying their slaughter of innocents. There’s usually one on every Waco thread.


60 posted on 04/20/2010 1:19:17 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: TruthHound
I have a thing for those who would elevate pondscum like him to martyrdom for whatever reason.

Take off your blinders. Waco wasn't just about Koresh. Think of the innocents who died because Reno was an a$$hat.

Waco, along with Ruby Ridge, needs to be remembered as what happens when governmental agencies feel they are above the citizens.

61 posted on 04/20/2010 1:52:15 AM PDT by Sarajevo (You're jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: AwesomePossum
the FLIR expert conveniently committed “suicide” ended up dead.
62 posted on 04/20/2010 2:29:46 AM PDT by AwesomePossum
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To: Sybeck1

Government fired on compound

http://www.alamo-girl.com/03604.htm


63 posted on 04/20/2010 2:48:55 AM PDT by AwesomePossum
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To: Eastbound
Where did TruthHound say that it justified the killing of those people? Fact is, Koresh was a bad guy. Crazy and/or Evil. The Feds Fragged up monumentally by trying to take him out in a shootout. Horribly. Heads should have rolled.
64 posted on 04/20/2010 5:56:55 AM PDT by Paradox (`)
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To: Sybeck1

The Jews were in the gas chambers, and Hitlers henchmen were there, the people at the compound were murdered and the henchmen of the USA government was there, same thing, since the government had no business there in the first place the details are not that important.

If a woman is stabbed to death in her bedroom while she sleeps, by a stranger with a knife, is there any reason to suspect any other cause?


65 posted on 04/20/2010 6:26:43 AM PDT by ravenwolf (Just a bit of the long list of proofs)
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To: Sybeck1

Sexy.


66 posted on 04/20/2010 6:29:30 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union. Then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
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To: SaraJohnson

“I remeber the Republican controlled hearings after the Waco and Ruby Ridge mass murders. They totally covered up all the crimes like they were a part of the Clinton/Reno mafia.”

Considering the slap on the wrist that Sandy Berger got later for another issue, they WERE part of the “Clinton/Reno mafia”. Power protects itself.


67 posted on 04/20/2010 6:33:48 AM PDT by Favor Center (Targets Up! Hold hard and favor center!)
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To: Sybeck1

I doubt this. If Delta Force had been involved, the end result would have been completely different. They don’t screw up that badly.


68 posted on 04/20/2010 6:38:45 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: Sybeck1
Guilty until proved innocent. :-(
69 posted on 04/20/2010 6:38:50 AM PDT by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: SaraJohnson
“They totally covered up all the crimes like they were a part of the Clinton/Reno mafia.

If you mentioned Ruby Ridge, you need to include Bush Sr., William Barr and maybe Richard Thornburgh (Although resigned well before the wetwork occurred) “mafia” into the mix.

70 posted on 04/20/2010 6:54:41 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: Forty-Niner

To be in compliance of the Posse Comitatus Congress would have to have approved the assault. Otherwise the only other way would be if Nuclear material is involved, which none was.

“Under 18 U.S.C. § 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threats involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a nuclear or radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect U.S. military preparedness”

“JSOC has provided support to domestic law enforcement agencies during high profile, or high risk events such as the Olympics, the World Cup, political party conventions and Presidential inaugurations. Although use of the military for law enforcement purposes in the United states is generally prohibited by the Posse Comitatus Act, Title 10 of the US Code expressly allows the Secretary of Defense to make military personnel available to train Federal, State, and local civilian law enforcement officials in the operation and maintenance of equipment”


71 posted on 04/20/2010 7:15:31 AM PDT by RockyMtnMan
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To: Sybeck1

So, this is what Reno held over Clinton? She could somehow prove that he sent in the military, thereby violating the Constitution? Maybe he signed the waiver referred to in the article, and she had a copy of it.


72 posted on 04/20/2010 7:29:11 AM PDT by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: Sybeck1

The front door proved that bullets were incoming that
penetrated the door. I don’t believe a word feds had to say.


73 posted on 04/20/2010 8:46:35 AM PDT by upcountryhorseman (An old fashioned conservative)
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To: Sybeck1

WACO FLIR Expert Dies before Trial

http://www.freewebs.com/jeffhead/liberty/flirdeath.htm


74 posted on 04/20/2010 9:28:47 AM PDT by Java4Jay
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To: saganite

Never forget!


75 posted on 04/20/2010 9:42:27 AM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
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To: Sybeck1

Thanks for posting this. Combined with what Dick Morris said last night, it could get interesting. I’d like to see Bill Clinton twisting in the wind on this one, especially after he tried to lay the blame for the OKC bombing on conservatives.


76 posted on 04/20/2010 9:43:44 AM PDT by MizSterious ("Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." -JFK)
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To: TruthHound

You’re a liar.


77 posted on 04/20/2010 9:46:06 AM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: LibertyRocks
"I’ve got Mr. Morris on my prayer list now... The truth is what matters now, most of all."

Same here. I keep remembering Alamo-Girl's "Arkancide list."

78 posted on 04/20/2010 9:46:11 AM PDT by MizSterious ("Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." -JFK)
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To: TruthHound
None. Because it didn't happen. The stories against him were proven false. Even the survivors stated this was false. The folks questioning the children, didn't stop until they [the children] gave the "correct" answers. This was proven some time ago.

I don't support David koresh or his BDs. I think they're nuts. But, we don't go blowing up a compound and burning little kids alive because we think someone is a little nutso.

Further, David Koresh left the compound nearly every day to buy cigarettes and to jog. They could've easily arrested him on any number of those occasions.

The ATFags wanted a hyped up victory to justify their existence. After shots were fired (discrepancy over who fired first) something like 4 ATFags were killed and 6 davidians..... then the FBI took over and made everything "better" after a lengthy standoff.

Not only that, but they [the davidians] allowed people to leave until the people no longer felt safe to do so.

79 posted on 04/20/2010 9:48:00 AM PDT by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: Sybeck1
Use of active military personnel against civilians without presidential decree is a violation of federal law.

OMG. Last night on Hannity - Dick Morris said Clinton wasn't going to reassign Reno after Waco, but Reno threatened to tell the American people the truth about Waco if he let her go. So, he had to keep her on. She was blackmailing him.

80 posted on 04/20/2010 9:51:58 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: rollo tomasi

Unfortunately all the 2009 and 2010 crimes that are going on now will not become public record until 2020. We won’t recognize this country then. Accountability today, right now, right here.


81 posted on 04/20/2010 9:54:46 AM PDT by George from New England (Escaped CT in 2006, now living north of Tampa)
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To: TruthHound

Much as we declined to wait for an opportunity to arrest Randy Weaver on the streets of Naples, or Sandpoint, or elsewhere in Idaho whenever he went into town on a shopping trip. Meanwhile, he lived quietly with his family in their simple, upainted plywood house in the woods, bothering no one.


82 posted on 04/20/2010 9:55:48 AM PDT by Elsiejay (.)
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To: Big_Harry

...And the idea many conservative have, that the military won’t do in their fellow countrymen, needs to be reconsidered. They might be right, but they shouldn’t count on it. Who writes their pay checks? That’s who they’ll serve.


83 posted on 04/20/2010 9:57:54 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: TruthHound

I don’t think anyone is advocating pedophiles. The government is choosing which pedophiles they want to destroy, the ones who are also anti-government. My mom works in a hospital where underage Mexican girls give birth and the when they call the authorities, they don’t care. “It’s their culture.” This had nothing to do with child rape. The possibility they used SOCOM to do it is extremely frightening.


84 posted on 04/20/2010 10:02:13 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Sybeck1

OK, all you boys an girls who have been licking Clintons’ axx all these years,,,he was farting in your face all the time and you were too dense to know it.


85 posted on 04/20/2010 10:04:28 AM PDT by Waco (Kalifonia don't need no stenkin oil and no stenkin revenues)
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To: TruthHound

The issue is not whether Koresh was “pond scum”

I think you would be pressed to find a Freeper that wouldn’t think he should have been arrested....

The issue is one of government action, and whether they acted properly or grossly abused their power....

By the measure of the results and how the final scene played, the latter is an obvious choice....

This is regardless of Delta Force alleged involvment....


86 posted on 04/20/2010 10:12:51 AM PDT by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: Republic of Texas
I doubt this. If Delta Force had been involved, the end result would have been completely different. They don’t screw up that badly.

Anyone, Special Forces units or Regular Army can screw up when they're being micro-managed by by incompetent Higher (NCA and Reno). I think it's telling that Weaseley Clark was CO at Hood, too.

Seems to me Hood has had some pretty lousy CO's over the last few years.

BTW: I live here in West Kendall in Miami, and I occasionally see Mz. Reno shopping at Publix.

I get chills...

87 posted on 04/20/2010 10:12:57 AM PDT by Right Winged American (No matter how Cynical I get, I just can't keep up!)
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To: Republic of Texas

Maybe they didn’t screw up. They certainly seceded in killing everyone. Wasn’t Delta involved in the botched rescue of the Iran hostages?


88 posted on 04/20/2010 10:16:36 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Sybeck1; Sarajevo; Eastbound; TChris; danieldu; LibertyRocks; dragnet2; unspun; SouthTexas; ...

I’m going to re-post what I put in another thread:

Well this puts me in the awkward position of having to defend an obviously flawed justice department, but when it goes up against a survivalist CULT leader who twists the word of God into those which will satisfy his pedophile lusts, I’ll take the side of the LAW every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I’m no expert on what happened at Waco, but I DO know enough through archival footage and testimony that the deaths are much more appropriate to lay at the feet of Koresh than Reno. He spent years preparing the Branch Davidians for the outcome that he alone could have prevented.

And I have no sympathy for him or tolerance for anyone who would throw out the public record to make him a Martyr for gun rights. Koresh was PURE EVIL and he used his influence to kill dozens of innocents.”

I stand by those words 1000%.

I will add these words.

I’m supremely disappointed in my fellow freepers here who lash out at me for putting the blame for Waco squarely where it belongs. Just to poke your collective fingers in the eye of an admittedly flawed justice department of a Democrat President.

I followed Waco DAILY while it was going on—praying that it would end peacefully, without bloodshed and that the cult leader would get justice. ONE MAN had the power to end the situation in an instant. David Koresh had 51 days to save the lives of those men, women and children—his flock he supposedly loved so much.

I don’t believe for a minute that it was the intention of Reno’s justice department to kill all those innocents. What Koresh preached tells me that it WAS HIS intention. The ONLY ending he would accept for himself and inflict on his followers was the one which would fulfill what he brainwashed those people into believing for YEARS. What actually happened was his own pre-ordained destiny. He was a COWARD and the lowest form of sub-human.

And worse than Jim Jones or Heaven’s Gate, not only did he dupe the Branch Davidians that he was a gun-toting, child-raping Messiah, but he made damned sure that his legacy as a victim would endure by making our law enforcement look like the bad guys.

SHAME on those here who would perpetuate that martyrdom for such a lowlife who would twist scripture into such a perverse theology!

I pray for any lost soul so desperate that they would fall under the evil spell of one such as Koresh. And I also pray that our law enforcement learned from their mistakes. But as a clear-thinking conservative and a Christian, I will not abide misdirecting blame or excusing Koresh’s murders just to wag my finger at a flawed local police, ATF, Janet Reno or Bill Clinton.


89 posted on 04/20/2010 10:31:14 AM PDT by TruthHound ("He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." --Leonardo da Vinci)
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To: TruthHound; Sybeck1; Sarajevo; Eastbound; TChris; danieldu; LibertyRocks; dragnet2; unspun; ...
I’m going to re-post what I put in another thread:

Well this puts me in the awkward position of having to defend an obviously flawed justice department, but when it goes up against a survivalist CULT leader who twists the word of God into those which will satisfy his pedophile lusts, I’ll take the side of the LAW every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I’m no expert on what happened at Waco, but I DO know enough through archival footage and testimony that the deaths are much more appropriate to lay at the feet of Koresh than Reno. He spent years preparing the Branch Davidians for the outcome that he alone could have prevented.

You know all this to be true.

Now you are rushing to judgment
without the aid of a jury ?

Who appointed you to decide ?

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
90 posted on 04/20/2010 10:37:32 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Favor Center

Truer words were never spoken.


91 posted on 04/20/2010 11:01:06 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: TruthHound

The DHS from Waco investigated charges of abuse and said they found nothing. It’s seems a little “iffy” that these charges are stated as “fact” once everything is burned to the ground. And the former “members who said it happened were fighting charges at the time.


92 posted on 04/20/2010 11:12:40 AM PDT by Terry Mross (Founding Fathers.....grave....rolling over.)
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To: jeffc

If the sexual abuse charges were true why did the ATF go in for firearms violations. And the agent that was a plant never said anything about it.

There were people who left over the years. Wonder why they never reported it. And if any of the survivors knew it they should have been charged for not reporting it. That is the law in Texas.


93 posted on 04/20/2010 11:18:18 AM PDT by Terry Mross (Founding Fathers.....grave....rolling over.)
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To: TruthHound
" . . . but he made damned sure that his legacy as a victim would endure by making our law enforcement look like the bad guys."

Listen, you dumb shit. Our "law enforcement" folks didn't need any help from anyone. They did what they did because that's what they do.

94 posted on 04/20/2010 11:18:21 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Forty-Niner

You brought up an interesting point: Guns don’t burn. That was their reason for going in. Yet they never produced any illegal weapons.


95 posted on 04/20/2010 11:23:32 AM PDT by Terry Mross (Founding Fathers.....grave....rolling over.)
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To: RockyMtnMan

Thanks for expanding my unnderstanding of the Posse Comitatus Act.......


96 posted on 04/20/2010 11:43:51 AM PDT by Forty-Niner ((.))
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To: TruthHound
Why was Koresh not arrested while he was strolling around town?

Why was the bulldozing done so soon?

Why was Clinton afraid of Reno letting the cat out of the bag about Waco, according to Morris, last night?

THE FLIR PROJECT PART 1

http://sentinelradio.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/the-flir-project-part-1/

97 posted on 04/20/2010 12:02:55 PM PDT by unspun (PRAY & WORK FOR FREEDOM - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
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To: TruthHound; Sybeck1; Sarajevo; Eastbound; TChris; danieldu; LibertyRocks; dragnet2; SouthTexas; ...
I'll share this with some of the others pinged by TH, JFTR.

Why was Koresh not arrested while he was strolling around town?

Why was the bulldozing done so soon?

Why hold these people at siege in the first place, instead of letting them go outside of the grounds, then apprehending them, there?

Why was Clinton afraid of Reno letting the cat out of the bag about Waco, according to Morris, last night?

I do suggest seeing this: THE FLIR PROJECT PART 1

http://sentinelradio.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/the-flir-project-part-1/

98 posted on 04/20/2010 12:06:49 PM PDT by unspun (PRAY & WORK FOR FREEDOM - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
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To: TruthHound

Defending the indefensible?

While many of the comments that follow have said much of what I was going to, I will add this. Being a cultist and/or being a pedophile is not classified as a capital office for the offender and damn sure not for the victims.

In this country you are arrested, given a trial, and then the sentence is carried out. In this case they were all executed and then the executioners wrote history the way it suited them.


99 posted on 04/20/2010 12:46:20 PM PDT by SouthTexas (Congress is out of order!)
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To: TruthHound
the deaths are much more appropriate to lay at the feet of Koresh than Reno.

I must strenuously disagree with that statement. It's a "It's always someone elses fault" claim. What you are implying is that what happened was the only, and I mean only, way the government could have resolved the Waco incident.

If a SWAT team stormed a hostage situation and the majority of the people died it would be considered a colossal failure. But because it was a Democrat administration, the media have covered up and glossed over this epic fail.

It is only in your mind that people are making Koresh out to be a martyr. OK, Koresh was pure evil. How does that justify the murder of over 70 innocent people? Please explain.

I look forward to your answer.

100 posted on 04/20/2010 1:07:50 PM PDT by jeffc (I now live in National Socialist America)
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