Skip to comments.An M-16 In Your Pocket
Posted on 04/19/2010 6:44:07 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
One area of weapons development that has seen a lot of new, but generally unnoticed, developments in the past decade is the PDW (Personal Defense Weapon, or pistol replacement). One recent example is the Rock River Arms PPS (Performance Piston System) Pistol. This is a 5.56mm weapon that uses a new internal design. It has a short gas piston, with the recoil spring and guide rod over the 21cm (8 inch) barrel. The entire weapon (which does not have a stock) is 44.5cm (17.5 inches) long and weighs 2.2 kg (5 pounds). There are single shot and full automatic versions, each costing $1,335. If you want a smaller PDW, you often have to go with smaller ammunition. Thus a recent Chinese PDW design uses a 4.6x30mm round. The new weapon is a variant of the Type 79 PFW (which uses the old Russian 7.62x25mm round). The new weapon weighs 1.6 kg (3.6 pounds) and has a 30 round, dual stack, magazine. Rate of fire is single, 400 or 600 rounds per minute. It has a Picatinny rail on top for scopes and sights. With the telescopic stock closed, the weapon is 34cm (13.4 inches) long, and 54cm (21.2 inches) with the stock extended. The weapon is gas operated with a closed bolt.
(Excerpt) Read more at strategypage.com ...
This thread is worthless without pics.
A picture would be worth a thousand words.
Look it up.
No, I’m just happy to see you...
That’s gonna take a B I G Pocket.
I’ve heard good things about these, but too pricey for me.
I am a cheapskate when there is so much old Warsaw Pact stuff floating around.
Just “picture” the barrel length, then ask if you could hit someone 3 feet away with it.
That said, absolutely LOVE the AR pistol concept. Beautiful looking, compact and 100% legal. Just have to be careful to have all of your ducks in a row if you build one to be sure you don't run afoul of the ATF. You also have to read up to ensure that the one you build actually works.
Sweet machines though if you do them right.
“Just picture the barrel length, then ask if you could hit someone 3 feet away with it.”
It has a longer barrel than any pistol I own, I don’t think the kick would be worse than a 44 mag, but the flash could be interesting if shooting indoors or at night.
A bit expensive at $1,335.00, but I’ve waited long enough for an addition to my bob. At 5lbs this will fill the need. You never know when a bunch of zombies sneak up on you.
Put a Tech-Site rear sight on the rear receiver T-slot just forward of the butt-stock on your folding stock AK, you double the sight radius and you have a serious round that isn’t `spray & pray.’
I paid for my M1-A rifle $1300
The recoil is negligible, but the noise and concussion is substantial. I was on a range with about 20 ARs firing, most had 16” bbls one had a 10” bbl. You could pick out every shot the 10” fired among the noise of all the rest. A LeVang compensator helps direct the noise downrange, with the regular birdcage flash hider it’s bad.
I paid for my M1-A rifle $1300
The Garand is a sweet weapon.
No offense, but you really need to buy a clue. A 4 inch pipe at 200 yards = SUPERB ballistics.
Here's the chart considering a 7 inch barrel:
For up close work I got my Glock
For a little further away, I gotsa Mini-14
I like the Garand too
Yep, you can buy two Keltec PLR’s for the cost of one of those others. And do anything they’ll do.....twice.
That's my idea of an ultimate semiauto pistol i.e. the Wildey 475mag. Rifle type mechanism, and anything that gets shot with the thing is gonna KNOW it's been shot...
Thank you for that heads up, but I am at best an SKS kind of guy.
I am the only one I know who is an enthusiast for the Moisin-Nagant.
Durable and idiot proof are big pluses for me.
3 feet and 30 rounds. More than likely.
I think if I had to choose between my AK and my SKS, which
is a former military carbine, I’d have to go with the SKS.
Full auto with this thing? You might get the first round on target. After that it’s an anti-aircraft piece.
$1400 for a .223?? I think I’ll pass...
It is probably the best rifle I have ever owned. I have five 20 round box magazines.
Springfield M1A is based upon the military M14 and is chambered in .308 caliber or 7.62 mm NATO. An even sweeter version of the M1A is the M25 Whitefeather tactital rifle, also by Springfield Armory. If you can get ahold of one, it’s about $4,000, about the same price as my over/under Beretta shotgun but a lot more fun!
18.5" long with 9.2" barrel, and a 3 pound weight (there are many 1911s and revolvers that weigh more). And costs about 1/3rd the price!
$1400 for a .223?? I think Ill pass...
Agreed on both counts.
I’m kinda fond of the old SKS and Mosins too.
If you are not familiar with “Gunboards”, then go to:
And check it out. Lots of good stuff on lots of military, antique & collectible guns as well as a good gunsmithing forum. I lurk there a lot.
I wish the SKS had a bolt hold open catch other than the mag follower - would make it easier to load with a clip I think.
Have a Yugo that I rigged a 30 rd. TAPCO duckbill to and it works pretty well. The sights leave some to be desired however.
I notice mention of the old 7.62 X 25mm / .30 Tokarev round for some of these super-pistols; that is, IMHO, one of the most under appreciated rounds going, and often overlooked because it’s so old. It goes back to the C-1896 Mauser “Broomhandle” pistol/carbine, only slightly modified by the Russians for the TT-33 Tokarev pistol which they abandoned during the Cold war for the 9X18mm Makarov because the .30 Tok was “too powerful”. Apparently the KGB and Russian Mafia (not sure how much difference there is) still fancy the TOK as a very effective close range killer that can defeat most soft body armor.
At around 1650FPS for an 85-90gr. bullet it gives around 550 ft.Lbs of ME and penetrates like an icepick.
I don’t know if there is much that this fancy 5.7 FN round can do that the old .30 TOK can’t do darn near as well if not better.
If you have an FFL (C&R included) you can score a Romanian or Polish Tokarev for around $200 these days, and corrosive milsurp ammo is still a relative bargain. Just flush it out after firing and it’s good.
Commercial ammo is also available for it.
The TOK is a lot of pistol for the bux. I’m not sure I’d carry it as my primary street piece (although I have) due to the funky aftermarket safety (they were not originally made with a safety at all). It would make a dandy woods gun though. People take feral hogs down with the X25 and I’m confident that it would penetrate a bear’s skull if you hit it square on. There are not many handguns that will penetrate a kevlar helmet, but tests have shown that a 7.62X25 will, out of a Czech CZ-52 pistol.
Nah, I'm just happy to see you!
It’s amazingly accurate too. Not to mention, a blast to shoot.
That is very cool.
Thanks very much for the link and the pic!
They have a downloadable video of the weapon being fired available at the Kel Tec site, and there are also quite a few videos of it being fired on YouTube
” but generally unnoticed, “
thanks to 922(o), prohibition on post-’86 machineguns. You need full auto to make the paltry PDW rounds add up to something effective.
I hear you, mate. I am currently in the market for a ‘carbine’ - type of firearm because I am getting preparing for an extended amount of time in the woods, and hereabouts there are a lot of bear and cougar wandering about so I need some sort of ready responce handy. Has to be a carbine-type since a longarm-type of weapon would simply get caught up in all the dense foliage, but pistols would not do I believe so recommendations for a good weapon (Please, nothing of 5.56 or lower) with good stopping power would be appreciated.
Bears just shrug off anything below .30 cal, in My experience, so something up there in calibre -but nowhere near the 1k tag as far as the firearm is concerned- is what I am looking for.