Skip to comments.Joint Task Force Commander Charged For Weapon Discharge
Posted on 04/20/2010 8:15:13 AM PDT by Clive
Joint Task Force Commander Charged For Weapon Discharge
CFNIS NR – 2010-04 - April 19, 2010
OTTAWA – The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS), the investigative arm of the Canadian Forces Military Police, has charged Brigadier-General Daniel Menard in relation to an incident on March 25, 2010, when his personal weapon discharged.
Brig.-Gen. Menard, Commander Joint Task Force Afghanistan, was charged with one count of Conduct to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline contrary to section 129 of the National Defence Act.
The CFNIS is an independent Military Police unit with a mandate to investigate serious and sensitive matters in relation to National Defence property, DND employees, and CF personnel serving in Canada and abroad.
For more information about the CFNIS, please go to http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=2824
For more information about the CFNIS Investigation Process, please go to http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=2960
Major Paule Poulin
CFPM Public Affairs Officer
All weapons are loaded.
Don't point one at a target one doesn't want to hit.
Keep your finger off the trigger 'cept to fire.
This is made slightly more complex by the free floating firing pin in the m-16 series. Merely closing a bolt on a round is sufficient to indent the firing pin. Crud inside the bolt could hold the firing pin forward, causing an accidental discharge when the bolt is closed.
Don’t know what happened in this case. A certain number of accidental discharges are expected. Which is why you get to rule 2.
Rule 2: Don’t point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy
Rule 3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are lined up
Rule 4: know your target and what lies behind it.
I'm sure that you meant to say, "Merely closing the bolt on a round is sufficient to indent the primer."
It's a wonder to me that more rounds aren't set off this way. When chambering a round in an M16 or similar rifle, don't point the rifle at anything you aren't willing to destroy.
I make it a point to show anybody who I am training the dimple on the primer when chambering a round. When you couple this issue with the fact that an M16 with the bolt locked open will unlock if you tap the butt of the rifle on a hard surface, it's a combination which makes one very cautious in handling the rifle.
All those, plus: know what’s behind your target.
Good to see someone that high up the food chain being held responsible for a negligent discharge.
Being a airplane driver most of my time in the military, my small arms training was limited.
What other weapons have this issue with chambering? In particlar, thinking of a GLOCK .40 I carry (typically without a round in the chamber).
See this article in which it was mentioned that he reported himself for discharging the firearm.
I really don't know. I trained in basic with an M14 and later served with an M16. I only learned about the dimpling of the primer decades after becoming a civilian when I became interested in arming myself.
Next time I'm out shooting my rifles I'll check to see how they operate and whether the firing pin contacts the primer on chambering.
I'm pretty sure that my handguns don't do this. Most of them have very positive mechanisms to keep the firing pin away from the cartridge until the trigger is pulled back.
I vaguely recall reading a description of testing some firearms by dropping them onto their muzzles from a height. I would imagine that if you dropped a loaded M16 onto its muzzle from ten feet onto concrete, that it would fire.
I don't think the Glocks have this problem.
The Glock is "striker fired", which I believe refers to the fact that the "striker" is pushed against a spring and then the pulling of the trigger releases the striker, allowing the spring to propel it toward the primer in the cartridge.
Operating the slide on the Glock loads the striker partway against the spring. There is then a small "button" which prevents the striker from being able to hit the primer. This button is depressed as the trigger is pulled.
If the trigger is not pulled, then this button prevents any other striker problem from allowing a cartridge to fire.
If the cartridge has a "raised primer", meaning that the primer was not properly seated in the cartridge and protrudes past the head of the cartridge, then it might be possible for the slide itself to hit the primer and set it off. This would not involve the striker at all.
That is right, indent the primer when the firing pin strikes it. I always wondered why the designers didn’t put a bit of spring to press it back that would be overpowered by the hammer. We used to inspect our guards to see if they had chambered a round (which in those happy and far off times was not permitted unless they needed to use deadly force)
A properly cleaned M-16 won’t. A dirty bolt/firing pin may have crud which presses the firing pin forward. Most generals have an aid or batman to do the cleaning part.
Wow, great information! Thank you very much.
I never point at anything I don’t intend to destroy, even when (I believe it to be) unchambered, but having all the info I can get it great.
To what are you referring? Are you saying that a properly cleaned M-16 won't fire if dropped on its muzzle from ten feet onto concrete?
Or are you suggesting that the General's rifle, if properly cleaned, and assuming the chambered round doesn't have a high primer, would not fire on chambering?
It's just my guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of a spring decreases "lock time" and permits the M-16 to fire at a higher rate on automatic.
An internet search indicates a rate of fire of about 900 rounds per minute. That is 15 rounds per second or 67 milliseconds per round. If you add a spring which increases the firing time by just 6 milliseconds, that decreases the firing rate by ten percent.
I do recall seeing that one can purchase titanium firing pins for these rifles. An internet search for this brings up discussions of slam fires and early attempts to lighten the firing pins. I even read that a titanium firing pin might wear differently than the standard pin and might develop sharp edges, thereby worsening the problem of slam fires. There's a lot of technology behind firing a cartridge.
With the old A1 version of the M-16, the high rate of fire was considered a liability. I always wanted about a 250 rpm for suppressive fire/FPF, (like the old BAR) but a quick 600 rpm burst or 3 rounds is ok when you are trying to tag a moving target. I have never been called on to use a MG as air defense weapon (though practiced it with the M-2HMG) and can see where a fast moving target in lots of air might be better served with a higher rate of fire. The MG-34 and MG-42 tried to use its high rate of fire to extend its range, and in that was not fully successful.
1911 pistols have a spring and which holds the firing pin off the primer unless given a mighty whack. The Glock/Para LDA/Springfield Arms XD use a latch to accomplish the same function. Don’t know about the Beretta.
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