Cattle-based fuel runs Oklahoma-Texas passenger train

Houston Chronicle ^ | April 20, 2010 | KELLY P. KISSEL

[Willie Green]

ABOARD THE HEARTLAND FLYER — Amtrak and transportation officials from Oklahoma and Texas have started a yearlong test to see whether beef-based biodiesel can efficiently run The Heartland Flyer passenger train between Oklahoma City and Fort Worth.

Texas cattle are supplying 20 percent of the fuel for the 3,200-horsepower engine, the rest is regular No. 2 diesel.

[Willie Green]

Oh good grief... what's the matter with these 'tards???

Don't they read my posts???

If I've said it once, I must've said it a THOUSAND times:

"We need ELECTRICALLY powered passenger rail.
And more nuclear power plants so we don't have to kowtow to the OPECkers."

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... I know that I must sound like a broken record sometimes...
But one of these days, you're ALL gonna be thankful that I kept up the fight!

[stars & stripes forever]

Oh good grief... what's the matter with these 'tards??? Don't they read my posts??? If I've said it once, I must've said it a THOUSAND times:

Forget electricity, hooking cows up with tubes to capture the methane gas they emit would solve the energy crisis and global warming. :)

[mountainlion]

Electric passenger might work in a limited areas but it has already been tried and discarded nationwide. Electric freight is impossible because of long distances and need for a whole new electrical grid like passenger electric would require. Who would pay for this Utopian dream. I already owe over $150,000 that I did not get to vote on. Taxation without representation is tyranny.

[Bean Counter]

[colorado tanker]

Just another source of natural gas . . . .

[Red Badger]

Gotta keep on Moooooovin’..................

[mountainlion]

Just another source of natural gas . . . .

The only real source of natural gas and no green willie, I do not read your posts.

[colorado tanker]

???

[mountainlion]

???

I tried to get your picture but it did not come through.

Cows are the origonal source of natural gas.

[mountainlion]

???

I tried to get your picture but it did not come through.

Cows are the origonal source of natural gas.

[colorado tanker]

Let ‘er rip!

[mountainlion]

That depends on what they were eating and which end of them you are on.

[Nervous Tick]

>> Who would pay for this Utopian dream

Well, the first letter of Utopia is “You”. There is a clue somewhere in there.

[Nervous Tick]

>> Just another source of natural gas . . . .

Hey, that gives me an idea. I’m gonna apply for a gubmint grant to manufacture livestock buttplugs.

I’ll be RICH!

(Of course, I’ll hire people to do the field testing...)

[MarkLevinFan]

This is where they are headed...

[Nervous Tick]

>> We need ELECTRICALLY powered passenger rail.

Passenger rail IS electrically powered... diesel electric.

Coal trains went out ages ago.

[thackney]

I didn’t see in the article just how it is “cow supplied” fuel. Are they rendering unused cow parts for biodiesel?

[Jack Hydrazine]

Next thing they’ll do is subsitute humans for cattle.

[Bailee]

There burning beef for Gas. First corn now Beef surely I have missed something.

I mean what the he11 we supposed to eat.

[OB1kNOb]

or perhaps.........

[Nervous Tick]

>> I mean what the he11 we supposed to eat.

See my tag line for a suggestion.

[mountainlion]

Most locomotives do not burn #2 they burn heavy fuels which are cheaper. We are talking about 6MW of electrical power. That is enough power for thousands of homes. I can imagine the technical problems of running the wire needed to power the train and how are you going to get it connected to the train in the first place. Not practical green willy

[Nervous Tick]

>> Next thing they’ll do is subsitute humans for cattle.

Heh. I hope “they” at least wait ‘til we die a natural death. ;-)

[Willie Green]

I can imagine the technical problems of running the wire needed to power the train and how are you going to get it connected to the train in the first place. Not practical green willy

Don't be silly.

[mountainlion]

Don't be silly.

Don't try to tell me that is a 3200 hp engine in that little thing. The wires and slide on that trolley car would burn up with 6 megawatts going through it.

[AngelesCrestHighway]

....Maybe the "Methane Express".....?

[Jack Hydrazine]

Don’t hold yer breath!

[Willie Green]

The wires and slide on that trolley car would burn up with 6 megawatts going through it.

Electric Train Locomotives powered by overhead lines have been around for well over a century.
We still have electric rail lines in the NorthEast corridor.
And electrified rail is also in common use throughout Europe and Asia, including France, Germany and Japan.

So I really don't know who you're trying to impress that supplying electricity to a train is such an insurmountable "technical problem." It's not new technology.

[backwoods-engineer]

This is just a stunt. If we’d drill for our own oil, the price of diesel would drop by a factor of two on the open market, and biodiesel would be a curiosity.

[mountainlion]

Light rail is practical for electric trains. I live in the mountains and still have to pay for light rail in Denver which is not piratical for me to use and does not pay for itself. That is Wong. Are there any heavy rail service that is eclectic, I don’t think so. Most heavy rail lines are not suitable for passenger service because they are too rough. Passenger lines are much more expensive to maintain. Lots of cities have had trolley lines 50 years ago that went broke. To have electric passenger service interstate you would have to build dedicated tracks for service and build the overhead lines which would be quite expensive. Public transportation never breaks even and must be constantly subsidized to stay in business like Amtrak. Why should I have to pay for a far away trasnportaiton system that I can’t use.

[thackney]

Not true. 450 amps at 13.8 kV is no stretch for such equipment. We have distribution circuits running through town with 36 MW.

[mountainlion]

Not true. 450 amps at 13.8 kV is no stretch for such equipment. We have distribution circuits running through town with 36 MW.
Opening and closing a 13.8KV switch will leave quite an arc. I can imagine what a train would do with a sliding connection. Bet there is a lot of ozone. I just don't like paying for someone Else's train that I can't ride. I wonder what kind of voltage the trains use. I think I saw something on europe trains that they were around 7,000 DC. They had their own power plant I think.

[thackney]

You keep acting like this is something new and untried. Many decades of use shows the equipment is not the obstical. Some lines were done in three phase power, although that makes for complicated crossing and switching.

Malasia has some electric train systems operating at 25kV AC.

[thackney]

I just don't like paying for someone Else's train that I can't ride.

On this, we absolutely agree. Technical engineering just is not the problem.

[mountainlion]

You keep acting like this is something new and untried. Many decades of use shows the equipment is not the obstacle. Some lines were done in three phase power, although that makes for complicated crossing and switching.

I bet a 3200 road engine could seriously out pull this little guy. Starting a railroad form scratch would not be profitable. Most electrical public transportation systems went out of business almost 100 years ago here.

[mountainlion]

Not true. 450 amps at 13.8 kV is no stretch for such equipment. We have distribution circuits running through town with 36 MW.

450 amps times 13.8 KV gives us gives us 6,210,000 watts or 6.21 MW. I don't know the factor for 3 phase but even if it was 3 times it still gives us 18.63 MW. Something is not quite right somewhere.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

‘Are there any heavy rail service that is eclectic, I don’t think so’

The entire northeast corridor from Boston to Washington is pure electric.

[mountainlion]

Around here there are trains with seven engines pulling over 100 cars of coal. Do they use electric for large trains like that?

[thackney]

3 Phase is times 1.73 (sqrt 3).

But the 36 MW is a 34.5 kV circuit. I wasn’t trying to confuse the two; I wanted to point out similar construction can carry a lot of power.

[Willie Green]

Are there any heavy rail service that is eclectic, I don’t think so.

There's a few heavy duty units for you.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Non electric is totally verboten.

[mountainlion]

They still run steam locomotives out west here where nostalgia is not forbidden. Cheyenne Wyoming has one of the largest steam engines ever made in a park. There are steam engine rides in Dillon and southern Colorado where you can ride a steam engine.

[PAR35]

There is an electric freight line in northeast Texas. Runs from an open pit soft coal mine to a powerplant. You can spot it crossing I-30 between Texarkana and Dallas.

http://www.trainweb.org/southwestshorts/txumartinlake.html

Picture and writeup.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

‘There are steam engine rides in Dillon and southern Colorado where you can ride a steam engine.’

There are quite a few tourist ‘dinner trains’ with steam engines in the East.

[Willie Green]

There is an electric freight line in northeast Texas. Runs from an open pit soft coal mine to a powerplant.

So they burn the coal to produce the electricity that they use to haul the coal???

Well that's a good GREAT example of how "self-sufficiency" can cut OPEC out of the loop!!!

Thanks for the info!

[PAR35]

Except now apparently they are bringing in high quality coal from the west instead of just burning the local soft coal.

But traditionally, yes.

[Grizzled Bear]

So they burn the coal to produce the electricity that they use to haul the coal???

Well that's a good GREAT example of how "self-sufficiency" can cut OPEC out of the loop!!!

Willie, Willie, Willie...

You once posted... "Of course you've already planted your head firmly up your butt and are either gullible enough to think that our planet has an infinite supply of Oil or simply stupid enough to not comprehend the market economics of supply and demand."

Your line of reasoning, such as it is, begs this question. Do you believe our planet has an infinite supply of coal? Willie, the planet does NOT have an infinite supply of coal! For the love of Ford, Willie, think of the children!

I've seen your pictures Willie; I've read the book and watched the movie and I'm not impressed. Willie, if you really want to impress me (and you know you do) you'll show me trains with pebble bed reactors moving under their own power. I'm talking nuclear trains, Willie. How's THAT for self sufficiency? Willie, you know you love it! Best of all, Willie, the government and the government's friends can own and control them. Ain't that cool! Imagine what Bill Ayers could do with a train powered by a nuclear reactor!

Is that Radical enough for you, Willie?