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Israeli Officials Weigh Option Of Attacking Iran Without U.S. Consent
The Wall Street Journal ^ | April 20, 2010

Posted on 04/21/2010 1:53:28 AM PDT by Fennie

The Israeli security establishment is divided over whether it needs Washington's blessing if Israel decides to attack Iran.

The Israeli security establishment is divided over whether it needs Washington's blessing if Israel decides to attack Iran, Israeli officials say, as the U.S. campaign for sanctions drags on and Tehran steadily develops greater nuclear capability.

Some senior Israeli officals say in interviews with the Wall Street Journal that they see signs Washington may be willing to live with a nuclear-armed Iran, an eventuality that Israel says it won't accept.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS: bhomiddleeast; iran; iraniannukes; israel; military; obama; palin
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1 posted on 04/21/2010 1:53:28 AM PDT by Fennie
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To: Fennie

After they do, maybe they can help to defend America from its internal Communists.


2 posted on 04/21/2010 1:54:42 AM PDT by unspun (PRAY & WORK FOR FREEDOM - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
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To: Fennie

Notify Obama and Eric Holder of an impending attack on Iran?

Are they insane?


3 posted on 04/21/2010 1:59:11 AM PDT by Brugmansian
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To: Brugmansian
I hope they won't otherwise our great lader may soil his pants.
4 posted on 04/21/2010 2:04:00 AM PDT by saintgermaine
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To: saintgermaine

Before or after Obama tells Ahmadinejad what the Israelis are going to do?


5 posted on 04/21/2010 2:14:48 AM PDT by Brugmansian
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To: Fennie

Israel knows to strike if they are threatened. They are again threatened. Obama has stuck his nose in the air at Israel.

But, until the American Jews quit voting DEM- I do not care.


6 posted on 04/21/2010 2:23:03 AM PDT by Lumper20
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To: Lumper20

I care for the people of Israel.They shouldn’t have to live under such a threat from savages.
Israel,Honduras and eventually more countries while the commie is in office,need to find a way to live without American aid.


7 posted on 04/21/2010 2:33:28 AM PDT by wiggen (Government owned slave.)
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To: wiggen

I totally agree.


8 posted on 04/21/2010 2:54:41 AM PDT by Bluebird Singing
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To: Fennie

I think the Mossad should start developing a relationship with those Iranians who are against Islam. Obama blew his chance - perhaps in his view saving Iran for Islam. Most people do not remember what our relationship was like with Iran before the Islamic fundamentalists took over the country. Iran is the jewel of the Islamic world. Iran supplies funds and weapons to jihadists everywhere. Iran constantly threatens the world’s safety with their vicious rhetoric. Change the government in Iran and you change everything. If we had a President who was not a muslim - that President would have done everything in his power to free the people of Iran when they were BEGGING for our help. Obama’s treatment of the people of Iran vs the government of Iran should show anyone where his loyalties lie - with Islam. Obama is the biggest mistake this country has ever made.


9 posted on 04/21/2010 3:23:24 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: wiggen

“They shouldn’t have to live under such a threat from savages.”

They also shouldn’t have to single-handedly neutralize a threat that it’s in the interests of the entire world to eliminate—even as the most militarily powerful nation on earth hides behind Israel’s skirts. Whatever happened to the world leader ready and willing to take on the world’s bullies whenever they threatened to beat up innocent victims? Carter’s days were limited once the perception spread that we had a weenie in the WH. Obama will fare no better.


10 posted on 04/21/2010 3:26:54 AM PDT by DrC
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To: wiggen

True.


11 posted on 04/21/2010 3:39:44 AM PDT by Lumper20
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To: Fennie
This would give Obama the excuse to completely throw Israel under his bus.
12 posted on 04/21/2010 3:41:23 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: Fennie

Good! Let the Kenyan find out from CNN.


13 posted on 04/21/2010 3:41:54 AM PDT by rdl6989 (January 20, 2013- The end of an error.)
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To: Fennie

I’m just wondering if our military will folow Obammy’s orders to shoot down Israeli aircraft who are on bombing missions hitting Iran?
I’m hoping they tell the marxist punk to f off.


14 posted on 04/21/2010 4:16:14 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (Just say NO to RINOs. (FUBO))
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To: Fennie
Folks, this one is smoke.

The point at which the Israelis could be effective against the Iranian nuclear program with conventional weapons is long passed - perhaps 3-4 years ago. Only the US has the conventional capability to effectively deal with the Iranian nuclear program. And, whatever Bush and previous presidents have promised, Obama will not only not do anything about Iran, he might positively obstruct an Israeli strike. Or, if they do strike, condemn and isolate Israel. Throw Israel under the bus as he has so many before....

The Israelis know this. The Iranians know this. The US knows this. The Russians and Chinese know this.

Understand, what an effective Israeli attack on Iran without US participation is the "unthinkable" -- a preemptive nuclear strike on every known Iranian nuclear facility and CBR facilitly, probably on the national command authority, and possibly on every major Republican Guard concentration.

This is no joke, and it will be a bloody, bloody war that will follow.

There are now NO good options for the Israelis or the West. The choice is between a bloody war sooner or an immensely bloodier war later. And, we've already chosen "war later".

And, that raises the ultimate question of survival for Israel: will they use the Samson Option if it comes to it? I don't know, but if I were an Arab leader, my family would be in Europe, the US or China these days, and I'd be visiting as often as I could. If I were an Israeli with dual citizenship, I'd be in my 'other' country. If I were an Israeli without the option to be elsewhere, I'd be volunteering for front line duty.....

15 posted on 04/21/2010 4:22:37 AM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Persae Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: Fennie

after they finish with Iran can they attack the 78% of Jewish voters here?


16 posted on 04/21/2010 4:24:27 AM PDT by rrrod
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To: Fennie

...that they see signs Washington may be willing to live with a nuclear-armed Iran...


Not only that, but (at the same time) there are signs that they want Israel to disarm. I guess the thought is that when Israel is eventually nuked, they want to limit the collateral damage. Isn’t being a US ally grand these days?


17 posted on 04/21/2010 4:38:19 AM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: Lumper20

I’m an American Jew and I’ve never voted for a liberal in my life.


18 posted on 04/21/2010 4:40:35 AM PDT by avoth
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To: CatoRenasci

“And, that raises the ultimate question of survival for Israel: will they use the Samson Option if it comes to it?”

Of course.


19 posted on 04/21/2010 4:42:15 AM PDT by avoth
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To: rrrod

“after they finish with Iran can they attack the 78% of Jewish voters here?”

Make it legal to do so and I’ll do it.


20 posted on 04/21/2010 4:42:59 AM PDT by avoth
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To: CatoRenasci

This is no joke, and it will be a bloody, bloody war that will follow.


Concur with your assessment re: Israel’s options, but not so sure about a bloody follow-on war. Concur that Iran’s proxies (Hezbollah and Hamas) will lash out, but not sure who else would be in a position to do anything. Syria would be in a state of shock (and awe). I think many of the adults in the Arab world and Europe would be secretly relieved. The only one throwing a fit would be Obama (Mr. Nobel Peace Prize) and maybe the Russians (no more big contracts from Tehran).


21 posted on 04/21/2010 4:43:39 AM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: rbg81
Concur with your assessment re: Israel’s options, but not so sure about a bloody follow-on war. Concur that Iran’s proxies (Hezbollah and Hamas) will lash out, but not sure who else would be in a position to do anything. Syria would be in a state of shock (and awe). I think many of the adults in the Arab world and Europe would be secretly relieved. The only one throwing a fit would be Obama (Mr. Nobel Peace Prize) and maybe the Russians (no more big contracts from Tehran).

I wish I were as sanguine about this as you seem to be: I don't think the Israelis will strike first; I think they'll let the Iranians get the bomb, clarifying the Samson option for themselves and the world. But, I think the Iranians will either use the bomb or get their proxies to use CBR (since the Obama administration doesn't seem to take CBR seriously). Only then will the Israelis strike, and I think it would be a broad strike, not one focused purely on the nuclear facilities.

I think there would be an Arab rising in response to the 10+ million dead that would result in, and I don't trust the Pakistanis not to make a nuke or two available (assuming the Pakistani nuclear capability were not also taken out in the first strike). I know all the shock and awe arguments, and have made them, but I think there are enough chemical and biological weapons floating around the Middle East that someone would get their hands on them and use them on the Israelis, perhaps even use a nuke on them.

22 posted on 04/21/2010 4:58:25 AM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Persae Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: avoth

Good to hear. Many do.


23 posted on 04/21/2010 5:00:21 AM PDT by Lumper20
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To: CatoRenasci

The time to strike militarily with any effect...is past, true. There remains another option, one that 0bama has “unselected” once already: destabilize the govt of Iran and support its internal overthrow.
Tough as it sounds it’s more practical and less bloody than everything else.
Won’t happen on 0bama’s watch if he can help it. :(


24 posted on 04/21/2010 5:03:45 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (STOP the Tyrananny State.)
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To: Fennie

The writer has to write something and this was the best he could do. It is a very little to do about nothing.

There is no real wishy washyness in Israel.


25 posted on 04/21/2010 5:06:58 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Ostracize Democrats. There can be no Democrat friends.)
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To: CatoRenasci

I have long thought that Iranian nukes is part of a covert strategy to bring peace to the region by eliminating Israel. I am not saying that Israel would be nuked. Rather, I think the approach is to create an overwhelming sense of doom and isolation around Israel that Israel Jews increasingly migrate elsewhere. Every Jewish departure would serve to accelerate the effect. Eventually, there would not be enough Jews to sustain a Jewish state and Israel really would become a (defacto) Arab state—without a shot being fired. That is the theory anyway.

That strategy aside, I think Iran would give nukes to its proxies and then the scenario you pose is the more likely one. If Israel was smart, they would take out Iran’s capabilities before it came to that. There would be a firestorm of protest and criticism, but the world would stop thinking that the Jews will (once again) march into the (figurative) gas chamber.


26 posted on 04/21/2010 5:11:15 AM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

27 posted on 04/21/2010 5:16:15 AM PDT by SJackson (Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: nolongerademocrat
Boy isn’t that the truth...Bama’s screwed the pooch all the way around on Israel. Israel does not need to notify anyone as to what their intentions are, especially Bama.
28 posted on 04/21/2010 5:25:20 AM PDT by hstacey (Army Mom...)
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To: Fennie

Why does Israel need US “Permission” to defend itself, build houses, or do ANYTHING, for that matter?


29 posted on 04/21/2010 5:52:47 AM PDT by left that other site (Your Mi'KMaq Paddy Whacky Bass Playing Biker Buddy)
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To: tobyhill

Barry has said that when things get messy he’d side with the muslims.

Let’s leave it up to Iran to call the US when it starts. Go Israel!


30 posted on 04/21/2010 5:53:29 AM PDT by freebird5850 (O-Bomba is not the Messiah. Jesus was a carpenter and could build a cabinet!)
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To: CatoRenasci

You are mostly right. A complete Israeli program to neutralize Iran would require ground penetrating nukes. Not just nukes


31 posted on 04/21/2010 5:58:46 AM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: rbg81
...I think the approach is to create an overwhelming sense of doom and isolation around Israel that Israel Jews increasingly migrate elsewhere. Every Jewish departure would serve to accelerate the effect. Eventually, there would not be enough Jews to sustain a Jewish state and Israel really would become a (defacto) Arab state—without a shot being fired.

Before 9/11, I actually thought something like this would be the most likely scenario: the Israelis long term either had (have) to reach an accommodation with the Arabs that the Arabs will accept (I know, but after Oslo, it was at least a possibility...), conquer the surrounding Arab countries (which looked increasingly both unlikely an unattractive after the whole Lebanon debacle), or face increasing pressure that would cause the best and the brightest to leave the country. I knew quite a number of Israelis in the US whose behavior, if not their rhetoric, was evidence of this. I figured that even if the Israelis were successful in conquering the surrounding Arabs states, they couldn't sustain an occupation for more than a couple of generations - say 50 years at the outside.

I got lots of grief from people who called me anti-Semitic on these boards for that view, which I saw as merely realism. One doesn't have to like an analysis to think it best fits the facts one observes on the ground. And, that was before the complete Palestinian and Arab rejection of a real deal with Israel. So, an accommodation with the with the Arabs looked like the least bad solution.

Now, that doesn't seem possible. I think it was possible after the invasion of Iraq, had the US been more aggressive in dealing with both Syria and Iran, and the Israelis been more successful in suppressing the Palestinians, but the moment has passed.

So, the two plausible outcomes in the Middle East are the slow destruction of Israel if neither the Israelis or the Iranians use the bomb, or a 'sooner rather than later outbreak of the war no one wants, but will eventually happen (given the Iranians) whether it's now started by the Israelis, in a very few years started by the Iranians or their proxies, or several years later as a result of Iranian moves against Europe or the US.

It pains me to have to say I don't think Israel as a state in the Holy Land will survive in any of these scenarios (except, perhaps, the preemptive strike - the least likely outcome, and then, perhaps for another 100 years....).

It is sobering to think that even if Israel survives as a Jewish state for another hundred years, it will have had a shorter existence, by some twenty years, than the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem from 1099-1187.

This is double plus ungood. The only way Israel can survive is if the Iranian and Arab threat is permanently removed. A Carthagenian Peace.

32 posted on 04/21/2010 6:07:20 AM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Persae Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: Fennie

Israel is waiting for Hezbollh to do something stupid then she will settle all accounts.


33 posted on 04/21/2010 6:22:37 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (The Tree of Liberty ....)
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To: CatoRenasci

BTW—I am Jewish, so I don’t consider my views to be anti-semetic. I think there is a consensus among the global “elites” that Israel is not viable and (worse) is a thorn in the side of the Muslims. What they fail to realize (or maybe do realize and just can’t cope with) is that the entire West is an irritant to the Muslims and Israel’s problems are Europe’s problems in 40-50 years. I really believe that short term peace (and appeasement) works in favor of the Muslims—who are waging a slow war of attrition against the West. Currently, the West is in a position to win any hot war with them, but it lacks the will. In 50 years, it may not be in a position to win, even with the will. Israel is just a test—one battle in a long war.


34 posted on 04/21/2010 6:28:24 AM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: avoth

Thanks, I wish that more Jewish people were voting like you.


35 posted on 04/21/2010 6:31:29 AM PDT by 2001convSVT ("Hand out pocket Constitutions to everyone you can")
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To: tobyhill

“This would give Obama the excuse to completely throw Israel under his bus.”
__________________________________________________________

I like how you write “under HIS bus”. It is not my bus and it is not America’s bus. I have been praying to God about this and remind Him it is a few very corrupt people in our government that are doing this and is not the majority of views in this country.


36 posted on 04/21/2010 6:34:50 AM PDT by TMA62 (TMA62)
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To: rbg81
I agree. Although, I think that even in 50 years, the West can, and will, win. The only questions in my mind are when the war between Islam and civilization will occur and how many tens of millions will die.

I can't say I like the prospect of millions dying. It sounds so callous to write about, and soooo seductive to deny that it will happen, to hope a solution will be found and that the Arabs and Iranians will change.....

But, it ain't happening.....

37 posted on 04/21/2010 6:39:49 AM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Persae Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: Fennie

Why the HELL should Israel need or want “consent” from anyone to act in self defense?


38 posted on 04/21/2010 7:16:53 AM PDT by JimRed (To water the Tree of Liberty is to excise a cancer before it kills us. TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Fennie

You’d better believe it. I thought that they would raid in between zero’s election and coronation.


39 posted on 04/21/2010 7:23:50 AM PDT by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
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To: nolongerademocrat

JERUSALEM—In his Friday sermon, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei reserved special wrath for “Zionist radio” that he said tried to drive a wedge between the Iranian people and the Islamic Republic. Such attention from Iran’s supreme leader was music to the ears of Menashe Amir, a bespectacled Iranian-born Israeli who has been broadcasting in Persian from Jerusalem for the past five decades.

“We’re listened to in Iran and considered very credible and effective,” Mr. Amir says with pride. “We’re close to the Iranian people, we know what they want, and we have our sources that give us detailed news about everything that’s going on in Iran.”

The spread of the Internet and satellite television in Iran over the past decade seemed to eclipse the prominence of Mr. Amir’s old-fashioned shortwave broadcasts on Kol Israel, Israel’s public radio. But now, as the Web in Iran is either blocked or dramatically slowed and satellite-TV channels are jammed by the government amid spreading unrest, Mr. Amir has suddenly become relevant again.

“Today we have many more listeners inside the country because Iranians are thirsty for any information” about the unrest, the 69-year-old Mr. Amir says. He estimates the Iranian audience for Kol Israel’s 85-minute daily show in Persian is between two million and six million people. Independent audience numbers, for obvious reasons, are impossible to come by.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124571901245939581.html


40 posted on 04/21/2010 7:29:15 AM PDT by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: Fennie

Hussein 0bummer will order the shoot-down of Israeli planes.


41 posted on 04/21/2010 8:03:44 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (http://www.teapartyslogans.com/cgi-bin/web/index.cgi)
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To: rbg81

We need to also be watching our backyard...First official report on The Axis on our doorstep..Iran, Russia Chavaz moving militarty for awhile now to S. America...

“Iranians (Qods Shock Force) in Venezuela and Latin America.”

...........”The report provides the first warning in an official U.S. government report about Iranian paramilitary activities in the Western Hemisphere..... It also highlights links between Iran and the anti-U.S. government of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez,

Iranian-backed terrorists have conducted few attacks in the region. However,..... U.S. intelligence officials say Qods operatives are developing networks of terrorists in the region who could be called to attack the United States in the event of a conflict over Iran’s nuclear program.

Qods force support for extremists includes providing arms, funding and paramilitary training and is not constrained by Islamist ideology. “Many of the groups it supports do not share, and sometimes openly oppose, Iranian revolutionary principles, but Iran supports them because they share common interests or enemies,” the report says”........
.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/21/iran-boosts-qods-shock-troops-in-venezuela/


42 posted on 04/21/2010 8:14:57 AM PDT by caww
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To: SJackson

LORD GOD, THANKS FOR KEEPING ALL THINGS IN YOUR TIMING AND CONTROL, IN JESUS’ NAME.


43 posted on 04/21/2010 8:34:13 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: dervish

I am glad that people are still trying. It amazes me that the anti-war liberal crowd in this country still doesn’t seem to understand that if it were not for our brave soldiers - WE WOULD ALL BE SLAVES!!!!!

War is ugly and people die. It is the cost of freedom. But in the real world - not in the Code Pink world of rainbows and flying unicorns - we all have to fight to be free and we have to fight to remain free.

They will say that we are interfering, that our help is not wanted, that everyone around the world hates us. Really? And who told you that lie? Watch these two videos - those poor people thought that Obama would raise his hand to help them.

Free My Land (IRAN)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJYaPgpkA80

Stand with Iran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W0xo33ZQoM&feature=related


44 posted on 04/21/2010 9:20:28 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: avoth

I agree, Samson option - hell yes.


45 posted on 04/21/2010 9:38:55 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: CatoRenasci

I disagree. There are thiings going on in Iran that are not widely known. With a little European assistance - A-jad could go down without a fight.


46 posted on 04/21/2010 9:41:08 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

I agree. Obama sided with A-jad on that one. But the movement is not dead. Oddly enough - Aryans may come to their aid. (Not the Nazi Aryans - the other ones).


47 posted on 04/21/2010 9:42:41 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: CatoRenasci

A great many Iranians hate Islam, and they need our assistance. A change in the government of Iran changes everything.


48 posted on 04/21/2010 9:45:23 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: nolongerademocrat

I hope your two posts are correct. The problem is the Obama regime will not do what’s necessary to help things along. No one would be happier than I would be if my analysis turned out to be wrong.


49 posted on 04/21/2010 9:59:19 AM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Persae Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: CatoRenasci

Obama is very quickly losing power and influence. Sadly for us, Obama is destroying the reputation of the Presidency. Someone will fill the void, I hope someone good. This movement in Iran has some unexpected sources of influence.


50 posted on 04/21/2010 10:03:53 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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