Skip to comments.LTC Lakin Formally Charged (Violation of UCMJ Articles 87 & 92)
Posted on 04/22/2010 2:54:33 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
Lieutenant Colonel Terrence L. Lakin was charged today with four violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) under Articles 87 and 92.
(Chargesheet at the link in PDF format.)
(Excerpt) Read more at scribd.com ...
Time to pray for a just outcome.
Within the next few posting we will be informed by some on this forum, that he will get what he deserves for being a traitor and not following the orders of his Commander.
Yeah the lib shill/mole scum will come out and a few ex-military who think you follow orders the boos man even if he is a Kenyan usurper.
It looks like they only charged him with failing to follow orders. There was speculation about a conduct unbecoming of an officer charge, which I don’t think they could bring up without creating an opportunity for LTC Lakin to counter with his objections to Obama’s lack of Constitutional eligibility. Of course, such may still be the case in determining whether the orders were ‘lawful.’
Thanks for making us aware of the factual developments.
If Obammy really cared about the Lt. Col. and the rest of our troops he would simply release an original Hawaiian, long-form birth certificate with the signature of the the delivering doctor - the same as what other people have who were born in Hawaii in 1960 and what the troops had to provide to get into the military in the first place.
To me this simply means Obama has no true Hawaiian birth certificate.
It’s absolutely unreal that America has come to this. May God protect our nation.
Good luck to LTC Lakin....he is doing something that all should be doing....challenging the legality of Obama in office.
I think some of these charges will be thrown out by the judge....they basically charged him twice for the same thing.
Of course....the Army will back off once Obama has to release the long form BC
I’m still skeptical this will ever see the inside of a courtroom. But if it does they are charging him with disobeying a direct order so the prosecution will have to prove it is a lawful order. That means obumber will have to be proved legit.
they are charging him for not obeying the orders of LTC’s and Colonels
It’ll be prosecuted. He won’t get Obama’s BC through discovery. He’ll serve time.
He will get a fair trial and receive whatever verdict the evidence supports.
This makes me sad.
Did you notice Hawaiian legislature is writing something that would refuse to acknowledge request for his Birth Certificate.
That's what he did. What? Did you expect him to be charged with failure to obey the orders of the President?
Perhaps. Nothing in life is guaranteed to be fair. Have you not heard the term ‘mistrial’??
No all they have to do is prove the order of his brigade commander is legit. I don't think they'll have a problem with that.
Ditto. So unnecessary.
FYI, Colonel Peter McHugh is the Garrison Walter Reed garrison commander.
Colonel Gordon Roberts is the Medical Brigade Commander, and a Medal Of Honor winner (as an enlisted soldier).
Could not find what Lieutenant Colonel William Judd is.
It doesn't work that way. They have to prove he disobeyed an order, he has to prove it was an unlawful one. It's an affirmative defense.
That's why what this guy is doing is so misguided. He didn't disobey any orders from Obama, he disobeyed his commanders' orders. The President never signed any order I ever got or saw. Obama's authority and birth certificate won't be issues and won't be addressed in the trial.
He is destroying his career and possibly going to prison for nothing. It's senseless.
About the only grounds for something like that, would be "command influence". That is, if Obama or his minions try to influence
Now is a good time to find and see the movie “Seven Days in May”.
Good luck on that.
A birther lawyer managed to construct a case that went to adjudication declaring Obama ineligible for whatever reason.
Would that have offered any legal support to Lt. Col. Lakin’s case?
I just don’t agree with ether of you. If the charge is disobeying a lawful order, they have to prove it is lawful. If LTC Lakin gets his day in court, and that is a big if, the question of obumbers eligibility will be answered.
And yes, I have participated in a court martial. Though I don’t claim to be an expert, I do know a defendant has the right to defend him/her self and the prosecution has to prove it’s case.
IIRC, there are very clear guidelines for what constitutes an illegal order.
Seems that the courts martial would evaluate claims of an illegal order within that framework.
The same laws that apply to this Lt, need apply to the so called Commander in Chief. Military justice must consider the fact that if the so called president is not eligible to serve. Each and every soldier could be in violation of international law. they are performing an act of aggression that could be viewed as terrorism. The person whom is ordering them to shoot is not legally in his place. The Haque could have a field day with the same laws. remember O signed the Interpol agreement, the Haque could come in and take the American soldier and prosecute them in a world court because of the same accord that Obama signed The soldier has no standing because the executive order as signed by Obama has surrendered American Sovereignity to a World Court. Just wait this will come into the forefront soon enough.
I’m picking up that the trick is in the deployment order, that only via chain of command originating at the Commander in Chief can a deployment order to foreign soil be properly executed. I have not as yet seen anyone point to a specific authority for that position.
“It looks like they only charged him with failing to follow orders. There was speculation about a conduct unbecoming of an officer charge, which I dont think they could bring up without creating an opportunity for LTC Lakin to counter with his objections to Obamas lack of Constitutional eligibility. Of course, such may still be the case in determining whether the orders were lawful.”
That jumped out at me as well. The were smart (devious) not to charge him with “conduct unbecoming” for remarks about the POTUS. Then he would have had grounds for discovery. They have charged him with missing movement and failure to obey a lawful order of a superior officer. I don’t think a military judge is going to allow issues of the POTUS’ eligibility to be considered. That he missed movement is not disputed. That he disobeyed orders from superior officers (four specifications) is not disputed either. He is questioning their authority based upon the fact that it come ultimately from the CINC - the POTUS. However, I don’t think this will be allowed in court. This brave man has sacrificed himself and is not going to get what he wanted - proof that POTUS Obama is legitimately POTUS under the USC. Truly sad and disturbing.
God Bless him and keep him. I pray more soldiers read their oath, understand it and stick to it. May God Bless our soldiers with wisdom. Protect the Patriots. That's all we ask.
All orders come the president or his designated representatives. Military Law and Precedents, Volume 1
Yes, he may serve time, but better he obey the Constitution under God, than a usurper. Serving time seems like a small sacrifice. Lt Lakin will come out a hero.
Convict but serve time??
Michael New did not serve any time for his conviction.
The jury refused the Government's request for him to serve time or to give New a Dishonorable Discharge.
Concur. As a matter of practicality, it is impossible for every set of orders to come from the President. Authority is delegated. This court will be decided on the practicality of the chain of command making decisions and issuing orders. There will be involvement of Obama or his birth certificate in this matter at all.
The law is not necessarily interested in the truth. Sometimes it is just a matter of pragmatism.
Should be “there will be NO involvement”.
It will be assumed to be a legal order unless the defense can show Lakin had ample reason to think otherwise. As a rule of thumb, if the 4-star on down to the O-6 thinks it is a legal order, the LTC is expected to trust their judgment.
You cannot have a functioning military if everyone gets to pick and choose. And before someone asks about Nuremberg, Lakin wasn’t ordered to kill civilians in gas chambers...
“The were smart (devious) not to charge him with conduct unbecoming for remarks about the POTUS.”
During the Clintoon years, I was told that rule had only been used once, for an officer that wore his uniform while carrying anti-war signs critical of Johnson in front of the White House.
Don’t know if that was true, but that was the rumor...
Concerning one charged with disobeying an order, the three opinions are:
1) You can't argue the legallity of the order or order giver (Non Sequeter)
2) You can so argue, but you have to prove illegality of the order. (El Gato)
3) You can so argue, but the prosecution must prove the legality of the order. (JoSixChip)
I just dont agree with ether of you. If the charge is disobeying a lawful order, they have to prove it is lawful. If LTC Lakin gets his day in court, and that is a big if, the question of obumbers eligibility will be answered.
And yes, I have participated in a court martial. Though I dont claim to be an expert, I do know a defendant has the right to defend him/her self and the prosecution has to prove its case.
My response would be that all orders are assumed to be legal, unless proved otherwise. Thus in the absence of such proof of illegallity or unlawfullness (if those are not the same thing), all the prosecution needs to prove is that the order was not obeyed.
But, the defendant must be given the opportunity to argue unlawfullness, and must be given the opportunity to obtain evidence or other information in support of that argument.
It must be that way, otherwise the military could go haring off on its own to attack foregin nations or groups. Wouldn't want that would we?
This makes me sad.”
Me, too. By all appearances this guy has a long, honorable record of service that’s about to be flushed to no constructive purpose. It’s even sadder to see all these people carrying on about discovery when some of us know quite well there’s not a snowball’s chance in the hot place.
Phil Cave, a retired Navy judge advocate general who now practices military law as a civilian, said that even if Lakin does decide to deploy as scheduled, the Army still may be able to prosecute him. Under Article 88, Cave said, a servicemember can be charged for making disrespectful comments or remarks about the president.
Cave believes that Lakins supporters in the birther movement hope that a court-martial will give defense attorneys the authority to seek, through discovery, other documents to help make their case.
They think that by using [servicemembers in a court-martial] they can get discovery like you could in any criminal prosecution, he said. That aint gonna happen. Theyre not going to have discovery where theyre going to get the president to produce a birth certificate because, Im reasonably certain, no military judge, no appellate court and no federal court, and no U.S. Supreme Court is going to say they have a right to get that as a matter of discovery.
Then they should go to ObamaForum.com
Well, I hope we get the chance to see. Because I think this retired Navy judge is a partisan hack. The LTC is being charged with a serious offense that, if found guilty, will result in his loss of freedom and carer. He deserves his day in court and if he gets it obumber will have to be shown to be legit. If this guy goes to jail because obumber refuses to show his BC, well I just don’t think that is going to fly in middle America.
I believe that's one of the points in the manual for courts martial, that an order is presumed to be legal. I think this is true even if there are problems with the order, but it is delivered according to a standard procedure.
That would apply to this order, since it probably went through the SecDef and the CJCS and the Army CIC.
That said, I hope (against hope) that Lakin prevails; and I do think that Obama should prove his status.
Really? I'd love to see a source for that little nugget.”
The Manual for Courts Martial states: An order requiring the performance of a military duty or act may be inferred to be lawful and it is disobeyed at the peril of the subordinate. This inference does not apply to a patently illegal order, such as one that directs the commission of a crime.
Basically, if you can't point to a specific illegal outcome intended by the specific order you received, you are presumed to have violated a lawful order. It goes on to add: “...the dictates of a persons conscience, religion, or personal philosophy cannot justify or excuse the disobedience of an otherwise lawful order.”
Lakin is basically asking the judge to determine that the line officers in question did not have authority to issue the orders he received because he has personal doubts about Obama’s birth. That's going to be a total nonstarter.