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(Vanity question) Aren't "green cards" considered "papers"?
n/a ^ | 4-28-10 | Myself

Posted on 04/28/2010 11:10:41 AM PDT by Texas Eagle

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To: Texas Eagle
When I was 18 years old I had to carry my Draft Card with me everywhere I went.

When I drive my car, I have to have a Valid Driver's License, a Valid Registration and a Valid Proof of Insurance.

When I'm buying Liquor, the Law states that the clerk is supposed to ask for a Valid form of Identification if I look under 30 years of age.

I can go on and on, but facts mean nothing to those who want to make the people opposed to ILLEGAL Immigration out to be Bigots and Nazis.

51 posted on 04/28/2010 12:16:02 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (If Hitler used a TelePrompter, we would all be speaking German...)
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To: Texas Eagle
Aren't "green cards" considered "papers"?

They aren't "papers papers". -Whup Goldberg
52 posted on 04/28/2010 12:16:19 PM PDT by Canedawg (I'm not digging this tyranny thing.)
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To: OldDeckHand
"Allows them to stop them "FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT" not just on a whim. "

The term "for any lawful contact" is so overly broad, it's effectively meaningless.

Well then read the bill if you want specificity.

"That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop."

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Byron-York/A-carefully-crafted-immigration-law-in-Arizona-92136104.html#ixzz0mQLmXTqj

53 posted on 04/28/2010 12:17:21 PM PDT by YoungHickey (Is it time yet, Claire?)
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To: massgopguy

That is it!!

I went every year to fill one out, until one year I went and couldn’t find it. I asked “Where are the post cards for residential aliens?” Then I was told I didn’t have to fill it out anymore. I think it was in the ‘70’s.


54 posted on 04/28/2010 12:19:08 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: Texas Eagle

So, my question is: Isn’t the Obama administration guilty of Nazi like tactics also?”

They are bringing suit against a state that is upholding existing Federal law. They are not trumping it, they are enforcing it. Feds may not provide necessary information.


55 posted on 04/28/2010 12:19:53 PM PDT by jessduntno ("If you want security, go to prison, you're fed, clothed, given medical. But...there's no freedom.")
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To: YoungHickey

That’s a fair point, but that still doesn’t preclude that we now have to carry our passports with us all the time.

My mom speaks with a thick Irish Brogue, she’s been a citizen since 1960. If she blows by a red-light, Is it far-fetch to assume the officer would take her in because she’ll only be carrying a driver’s license on her? Which is no proof of citizenship?

Look, I would have no problem if one is arrested, bring you back to the police station and make you prove citizenship. You shouldn’t have gotten arrested in the first place.


56 posted on 04/28/2010 12:20:24 PM PDT by maddogconservative
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To: Crolis

Florida just started with strong requirements this past January. A lot of distraught license seekers because not only to you have to provide your original birth certificate, if you’re married, and you’ve taken your husband’s name, you have to provide your “official” marriage certificate. My sister recently had hers renewed, and even though she’s had a Florida license with her married and maiden name on it for 34 years, she had to go to county records and get a copy of her marriage license.


57 posted on 04/28/2010 12:20:34 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: Kickass Conservative

That’s right. And is it profiling when someone is carded before purchasing a drink because the bartender/waitress can’t tell if they are legal age or not? Do we call that profiling against all young people?

I have a feeling that if I wait for common sense to return to this country, I’ll be hearing about it from the grave.


58 posted on 04/28/2010 12:21:14 PM PDT by MWestMom (Tread carefully, truth lies here.)
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To: dawn53

As a citizen of the US you are not required to carry identification with you if you are out for a stroll. However if you are driving an automobile, traveling on a plane, purchasing goods with a check or credit card, buying a dog, getting a fishing license, renting a boat, bicycle, applying for a job or a million other instances, proof of identification is required. Proof of identification has become commonplace and if a citizen of the US wants to avoid being asked for such identification he must forego many of the conveniences of life. Such as cashing his paycheck.

What the person that has obtained a Green Card must understand is that Green Card must be in their possession at all times. That is a condition of being granted the card in the first place. If the applicant for the Green Card feels the intrusion of carrying the card on their person is too great a burden, they are free to go back home.


59 posted on 04/28/2010 12:21:15 PM PDT by nj patriot (Gore is beyond help.... Snakes in the head.)
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To: humblegunner

So, if someone posts something Rush says, you are automatically going to demean it?

You dont like Rush because other people do?

You are making an extreme leap to go from someone agreeing that showing green cards is akin to showing papers, to then say that everything should be immoratlized.

Why are you so obsessed with what other people like?


60 posted on 04/28/2010 12:22:18 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Canedawg

I carried my green card for years until I naturalized.

It is “papers”. I know, I carried one.


61 posted on 04/28/2010 12:22:54 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: TruthConquers

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/sep/29/roman-polanski-whoopi-goldberg


62 posted on 04/28/2010 12:24:26 PM PDT by Canedawg (I'm not digging this tyranny thing.)
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To: YoungHickey
Right, I read the bill. And, the person cited is a politician, running for office. I know what "lawful contact" means, and IT DOESN'T only mean an instance where detention comes into play.

As an example, police everyday come into "lawful contact" with witnesses and victims of crimes. What the law says, is after lawful contact has been established, the police may ask the "suspect" (for lack of a better word) to evidence of his legal residency or citizenship, if the LEO has a reasonable suspicion that the person they've lawfully contacted is in the country illegally.

So, the police under this law may also ask for the passengers of a car that they've stopped to provide proof of residency or citizenship, even though it's VERY difficult for a passenger to be a suspect in a moving violation.

Kobach was speaking as a man running for office, not rending an accurate characterization of the law as a law professor.

63 posted on 04/28/2010 12:28:14 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: dawn53
It’s just so ambiguous, the talk of “papers”...they’ll have to set down specifics.

It's not ambiguous at all.

ALL Permanent Residents are required to carry their "Green Card."
All Nonresident aliens are required to carry their Passport with a valid US Visa.

Green Card holders are Told about that requirement when the document is issued.
Visa holders are told about the requirement when they enter the US.

64 posted on 04/28/2010 12:36:38 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Iran should have ceased to exist Nov 5, 1979, but we had no president then either.)
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To: circlecity

I went to see Gladys Knight the other evening and they refused to let me into the theater until I had shown the authorities there my papers (a/k/a my ticket) and until after the ticket had been successfully scanned for authenticity. (What a bunch of crybaby hustlers—what an insult that they believe that a thinking American person with any dignity and intestinal fortitude would be bullied and intimidated to be coped by their line of crap!).


65 posted on 04/28/2010 12:40:24 PM PDT by dtrpscout (A bad dog is better than most good people.)
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To: Raider Sam
So, if someone posts something Rush says, you are automatically going to demean it?

I demeaned nothing. I stated that if one thing he says is noteworthy, so are all of them.

You are making an extreme leap to go from someone agreeing that showing green cards is akin to showing papers, to then say that everything should be immoratlized.

I did not address the content of what Limbaugh said, only the
fact that someone thinks his every utterance is noteworthy.

You dont like Rush because other people do?

I like him just fine, I'm just not a cheerleader
who will sit around gushing over his every word.

Why are you so obsessed with what other people like?

Am I?

66 posted on 04/28/2010 12:42:34 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
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To: ASA Vet
It's not ambiguous at all. ALL Permanent Residents are required to carry their "Green Card." All Nonresident aliens are required to carry their Passport with a valid US Visa. Green Card holders are Told about that requirement when the document is issued. Visa holders are told about the requirement when they enter the US.

But you forgot one category...ALL citizens of the US must carry "what?" to prove they're a citizen?

67 posted on 04/28/2010 12:46:40 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: dawn53

Works for me.
I could carry my Nexus Card. That would work.


68 posted on 04/28/2010 12:51:23 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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To: Grizzled Bear

I’m taking it out now.
Thanks!


69 posted on 04/28/2010 12:52:01 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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To: humblegunner

Look it...


70 posted on 04/28/2010 12:53:27 PM PDT by TankerKC (I think P. T. Barnum had his time off by about 59 seconds.)
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To: TankerKC
Look it...

Folks...

71 posted on 04/28/2010 12:56:42 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
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To: Kickass Conservative

Ask the Democrats why they INSIST on “background checks” for patriotic Americans to exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL right to obtain and bear arms.


72 posted on 04/28/2010 12:57:04 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The hysteria of Matthewsism and Andersonism has led to a Tea Party Scare that is unAmerican.)
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To: OldDeckHand
So, the police under this law may also ask for the passengers of a car that they've stopped to provide proof of residency or citizenship, even though it's VERY difficult for a passenger to be a suspect in a moving violation.

Most of the time I have been the passenger in a car at night and the driver has been pulled over for an infraction, I've seen them collect up ALL licenses/identity to run them (for outstanding warrants, etc.).

It is foolish to believe that this isn't already going on in police departments (asking for "papers" regardless of ethnicity).

73 posted on 04/28/2010 1:01:08 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The hysteria of Matthewsism and Andersonism has led to a Tea Party Scare that is unAmerican.)
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To: humblegunner

Let not your heart be...wait. Never mind.


74 posted on 04/28/2010 1:01:48 PM PDT by TankerKC (I think P. T. Barnum had his time off by about 59 seconds.)
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To: dawn53

US Citizens are not a category of NON-Citizen.

As you know, US Citizens are not required to carry proof of Citizenship unless they are returning to the US from another country.


75 posted on 04/28/2010 1:03:12 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Iran should have ceased to exist Nov 5, 1979, but we had no president then either.)
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To: humblegunner

You demeaned it when you compared a point made in the show to a commercial.

You did address his content. You asked if we should discuss his commercials because we were discussing the content of his show. By the way, what is wrong with discussing this particular item from his show?

Who is being a cheerleader gushing on his every word? Some people on this board are disagreeing with his statement (that was actually made by a caller) and others are agreeing with it for reasons other than “Rush said it.”

And when you ask someone why they chose a topic, it shows you are more interested in what that person likes than either leaving or addressing the topic.


76 posted on 04/28/2010 1:08:17 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: maddogconservative
Green Card Holders do have to carry the green cards on them at all times, but they usually only show them to Immigration Officials & State Department.

They also need to show the green card when they buy firearms from a licensed dealer. Those are sold only to citizens and green card holders.

77 posted on 04/28/2010 1:08:29 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: TankerKC

You’re a great American.


78 posted on 04/28/2010 1:10:29 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
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To: netmilsmom

I guess, for me, the real issue is not what do the illegals have to carry to prove they’re here legally...they actually have papers, green card, visa, etc. But rather what do American citizens have to carry to prove they’re not illegals.

Will a voter ID do, a driver’s license, what about a driver’s license from another state (since there are lots of tourists in Arizona.) We’ve already established the gov’t says don’t carry your SS card with you. Shall we all get a Passport and make sure we carry it when we go to Arizona?

It’s a slippery slope! One administration might mean it for good, but it could quickly be turned to be used for bad.


79 posted on 04/28/2010 1:12:52 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: Raider Sam
You demeaned it

Ohhhkay.

You did address his content.

Alllrighty then.

Who is being a cheerleader gushing on his every word?

He spoke 'em, you read 'em and comment. Do you do the same for everyone?

Some people on this board are disagreeing with his statement

Thanks for pointing that out.

80 posted on 04/28/2010 1:14:07 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
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To: a fool in paradise
'Most of the time I have been the passenger in a car at night and the driver has been pulled over for an infraction, I've seen them collect up ALL licenses/identity to run them (for outstanding warrants, etc.)."

No question. It is a matter of settled law that during a routine traffic stop, the police are within their purview to positively identify the occupants of the vehicle they've stopped - ostensibly all done to protect the safety of the patrolmen.

But, what was alleged about this law, by this guy who actually helped write it, was that "papers" were only going to be asked of suspects. That's disingenuous. Passengers in a vehicle aren't presumptively suspect in anything, and that not why the police already have the authority to identify them. But, that would be a "lawful contact", as would any contact with someone who reported a crime, was a victim of a crime, or was a potential witness in a crime - all lawful contacts.

This guy who was quoted by the other poster, was characterizing the law is a somewhat dishonest way. That helps no one, nor does it build credibility. The law, as it is written, gives virtually unfettered authority to law enforcement to identify someone's citizenship status. Perhaps that's fine, perhaps that isn't. But to pretend that this isn't what the law does, is dishonest.

81 posted on 04/28/2010 1:15:45 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: maddogconservative
My mom speaks with a thick Irish Brogue, she’s been a citizen since 1960. If she blows by a red-light, Is it far-fetch to assume the officer would take her in because she’ll only be carrying a driver’s license on her?

The officer takes her papers and returns to his vehicle. There he enters DL number into the computer. The computer reports that the DL is valid, she is not a fugitive, and the DL was issued to a citizen. The officer returns the DL, and your mom would not even know that the officer also checked her legal status in the country.

Besides, AZ law specifically says that any state-issued ID (which a DL is) is good enough as a proof of legal residency. That makes sense; if some states have loose DL requirements, the problem needs to be fixed there.

82 posted on 04/28/2010 1:18:27 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: ASA Vet
As you know, US Citizens are not required to carry proof of Citizenship unless they are returning to the US from another country.

So you're on a street in Arizona. A cop walks up to you and asks for proof that you're not illegal. You're a citizen, so you don't have a green card on you, nor do you have a visa. What are you going to produce to prove you're a citizen when, as you said, citizens are not required to carry proof of citizenship. But in order to prove you're a citizen, and not an illegal, you are going to have to carry something to prove you're a citizen.

83 posted on 04/28/2010 1:19:44 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: Texas Eagle
those or similar regulations have been in effect since before Obama was born. Just as you are required to carry your drivers license while driving, so the immigrant carries the green card when he/she is out and about - a good regulation.
84 posted on 04/28/2010 1:29:31 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: dawn53
See, I WENT to carrying my passport for awhile and presented THAT when asked for identity papers at every turn in stateside society. I certainly feel no safer getting on an airline for a domestic flight knowing that everyone had to show a driver's license. Although such policy was introduced in the 1980s, it was to prevent passengers from selling off the other half of a bargain priced ticket. Airlines oversell the planes. We know this. They saw this as unfair competition (I've seen them also pursue a passenger who taught employee training sessions in a different state because he flew Houston to Denver round trips even though he flew them "Denver to Houston" and back (the originating city may have been a factor in ticket pricing). Physically it made no difference. Anyway, I digress.

The 9/11 hijackings occurred in spite of our requirement for showing a driver's license. After the 9-11 attacks, there were numerous corruption figures in the department of motor vehicles who repeatedly caught selling legitimate driver's licenses to known illegal aliens of middle eastern descent (they would "approve" bogus names and have the illegal aliens have their photos taken along with the legit customers at the DMV).

So I put no great standard in having a driver's license. There are some states that have declared they are okay with licensing illegal aliens.

Suspicion would be higher for those who do not speak English as a primary language. It would be even higher for those who speak no English at all.

As it was, officers across this nation were dissuaded from even asking and if it came out in processing of a criminal suspect who WAS INDEED here illegally (even someone who'd been caught and released several times) the police department was to do nothing about the immigration status.

So what will be the focus of enforcement here? Making do with those who are arrested on other charges? Raiding workplaces and where day laborers congregate? Raiding homes and schools and hospitals? Which do you think would cause the biggest backlashes with the public and which would meet with their tacit approval?

Everyone won't be deported at once. As it was, law enforcement was not even encouraged to bring up the subject.

85 posted on 04/28/2010 1:29:52 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The hysteria of Matthewsism and Andersonism has led to a Tea Party Scare that is unAmerican.)
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To: elpadre
Technically in some state you even need to have a state ID to be inside a bar regardless of age. And time was you needed to carry SOME money in your pocket ($5?) to avoid being charged with vagrancy
86 posted on 04/28/2010 1:31:18 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The hysteria of Matthewsism and Andersonism has led to a Tea Party Scare that is unAmerican.)
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To: dawn53
Non-Citizens are required to tell Officer Friendly the truth about their status.

Officer Friendly isn't concerned about those people here legally.

Officer Friendly should only have to be investigating those he/she believes to be suspicious.

If our States would stop screwing around giving drivers licenses or State ID's to folks here illegally, those would be all that was needed.

Also if our Government would build the fence like they were supposed to do, it could be assumed if you're on this side of it you're here legally.

I'm sure it will come to the point where we will need to have a National ID, but that will be fought tooth & nail by many here on FR who want the invasion stopped but not if doing so is inconvenient for them.

87 posted on 04/28/2010 1:42:07 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Iran should have ceased to exist Nov 5, 1979, but we had no president then either.)
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To: dawn53

>>Shall we all get a Passport and make sure we carry it when we go to Arizona?<<

Get a Nexus card. (they are called something else to get into Mexico).

I had to show a BC, current drivers license and SS Card to get it. Now I just renew every year. Got them for me, DH and both of my girls. A lovely (kidding) picture id and we fast track into Canada. Sweet!


88 posted on 04/28/2010 2:31:50 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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To: humblegunner

Excellent debating skills. You dont have a retort, so you elongate meaningless words.

As for cheerleading, I didnt even comment on what Rush said. And even if I had, it would not show “cheerleading.” Are you cheerleading every writer in which you have a positive comment about their story?


89 posted on 04/28/2010 4:05:34 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Raider Sam

I don’t cheerlead.

Nothing Limbaugh says is any better than stuff said by folks I saw last weekend.

I just don’t see fit to post threads about it.

Or to assume anybody who can speak words is any more prescient than myself.

Maybe you do.

I don’t.

Cheers.


90 posted on 04/28/2010 4:14:10 PM PDT by humblegunner (Pablo is very wily)
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To: YoungHickey
Well then read the bill if you want specificity. "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop."

__________________________________

What you quote is not in the bill, it is an opinion that attempts to clarify. All that matters is that which is stated in the law and, the phrase is overly broad.

91 posted on 04/28/2010 4:22:48 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: humblegunner

Nobody said it was better because Rush said it. How are you just not getting this?

The thread is about the issue. You are the only person trying to make the thread about Rush.

No one asked you to post a thread about it. But if you are so disgusted by Rush’s fans, why do you go on their threads?

Maybe if you weren’t such an arrogant jackass you could see that no one was saying that Rush is more prescient than you.


92 posted on 04/28/2010 8:39:46 PM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: dawn53
Related to my last sentence of post 83
93 posted on 04/30/2010 6:06:55 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Iran should have ceased to exist Nov 5, 1979, but we had no president then either.)
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To: dawn53

Oops, I meant my post 87 responding to your 83.


94 posted on 04/30/2010 6:09:33 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Iran should have ceased to exist Nov 5, 1979, but we had no president then either.)
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