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The Taserification of America
philly.com ^ | 05/06/2010 | philly.com

Posted on 05/06/2010 9:22:20 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour

Unless you've been living in a Waziristan cave for the last 24 years, you've heard about the unfortunate misdemeanor-breaking dude who got Tasered at a Phillies game at Citizens Bank Park last night. My computer screen here in Center City went all a-Twitter about it even before all the electrons had even stopped flowing through 17-year-old suburban high school senior Steve Consalvi.

My gut instinct when I first learned of it was the same as I feel about it a day later: That while it wasn't exactly a Rodney King affair, clearly the officer had used excessive force. I've been watching baseball games for more than 40 years, and the drills is always the same. The fan isn't trying to do harm, just get attention; it used to be that the TV cameras never even showed a field-jumper for exactly that reason, back before ESPN needed an endless stream of fodder for its "Top 10 Plays."

People forget that the whole justification for police to get Tasers in the first place was to subdue potentially violent suspects in cases in the past in which they might have been tempted to use lethal force. But the notion that the cops would have pulled a gun and shot 17-year-old field jumper Steve Consalvi is absurd, which means the rationale for tasing him is...what? There's something oddly funny about zapping a fellow human for some reason, but Tasers are no joke to the loved ones of the estimated 50 people who died because of their use.

Consalvi didn't have the risk factors of most of those killed or injured -- he is young, health, and wasn't drunk or on drugs. But he still -- while committing a misdemeanor, let's remember -- was subjected to the brief, intense pain of 50,000 volts of electricty. There was a simpler, quainter time when causing pain to another person was called...violence.

I guess that quaint time was America before 9/11 -- after which for some reason we lost all sense of proportionality on how to respond to various levels of wrongdoing. After my low-key blog suggestion that Tasering a mildly lawbreaking fan wasn't a great idea, I got an email from a reader. He said, in part: "Were you there last night? I was. Idiots like that are unpredictable at best! The days of “Morgana (sic) the kissing bandit” are gone. We live in a post 911 world." I don't mean to be harsh to the emailer -- he actually made some decent points about security entering Citizens Bank Park.

But I also had to wonder: Must we see every single act of wrongdoing, even minor ones, through the prism of 9/11? Is a fan running on a field in the same ballpark with killing nearly 3,000 people? What has happened to us in this country. Did anyone call for stun-gunning "Morganna the kissing bandit" in the 1970s because we lived in "a post-JFK assassination world" and that maybe she had a concealed weapon inside of those, um. concealed weapons. Of course not. Americans have changed..and not for the better.

Make no mistake -- the 9/11 attacks were the most cowardly acts of pure evil ever committed on U.S. soil -- but the American ideals of civil liberties should be so sacrosanct they should not have been unduly violated even for the people who planned and executed 9/11, but of course they were at Guantanamo and with the John Yoo-justified torture regime that was expanded to many people who had nothing to do with 9/11 and eventually to people who were innocent of any crime altogether.

But even more damaging is the way that attitude -- that any kind of lawbreaking or even potential lawbreaking requires the harshest possible response, with no regard to more than 200 years of momentum toward basic civil liberties and human rights -- is filtering down to other aspects of American life. Exhibit A is what's happening in Arizona.

Let's be honest -- although there are some very bad apples scattered in there, the vast majority of undocumented immigrants are the Steve Consalvis of the American political debate. They've jumped over a fence and are running around on the field of national economy, and just like Consalvi they've broken a law but also aren't a threat to cause serious injury (especially with studies that show undocumented migrants have a low crime rate and tend to even pay more in taxes than they get back in services).

The response from the majority of Arizonans and many Americans is no longer to work toward a mature solution like real immigration reform that would view these humans as what the pre-soul-dead Sen. John McCain of the mid-2000s once called "God's children," but to use a totalitarian-tinged "papers please" brand of racial profiling in order to round up as many of these "illegals" (Note: actions are "illegal," not people -- sad that that even needs to be spelled out in 2010) as possible, even separating them from their children. The chief offender is Phoenix's "Sheriff Joe" Arpaio, who makes his predominately Latino inmate population swelter in a brutal tent city in the pink underwear he issues them. Many of his inmates would probably prefer to be tased.

And when you voted for change in 2008, you thought you were ushering in a presidency of Barack Obama, not the era of Draco, the Greek lawgiver.

Which brings us to Times Square and the failed car bombing. This is the second time in less than a year that a young man apparently inspired by some warped brand of Islamic extremism attempted attacks that would kill a large number of Americans. It's alarming and upsetting that anyone is trying -- however ineptly -- to kill so many innocent people. However, our current draconian rules of political discourse practically prevent us from even suggesting that these attacks be looked at as not quite exactly the same thing as 9/11, which after all was a well-planned attack with 19 trained perpetrators.

The failed Times Square car bombing and the failed airplane underwear bomber over Detroit were poorly planned events by young, naive individuals that, even combined, did not harm or kill a single individual; they were quite serious crimes nonetheless -- and they were both handled and properly investigated with remarkable skill and speed by the law-enforcement structures we already have in place -- that is, police and federal law-enforcement like the FBI -- who followed normal procedures, all applicable laws, and honored the U.S. Constitution. We also worked cooperatively with a foreign power with whom we've sometimes had a rocky relationship -- Pakistan -- to round up additional suspects in the Times Square case.

And the response of some of our top political leaders today has not congratulatory toward good police work or a criminal justice system that at times can still be the envy of the world -- but rather anger and disappointment...that the suspect's Constitutional rights were not violated. Even though Faisal Shahzad is a naturalized American citizen accused of felony crimes under U.S. law, some lawmakers were furious that authorities followed the law and read Shahzad his Miranda rights regarding self-incrimination (which hasn't stopped him from a confession or providing information, by the way).

One of those critics, of course, was John McCain, who said Mirandizing Shahzad "would be a serious mistake...at least until we find out as much information we have." Ironically, it fell upon right-wing media icon Glenn Beck to point out that the Times Square case was no time to "shred the Constitution." The main point here is a rather obvious -- when an anything-for-ratings entertainer like Beck is the voice of reason, then democracy is rolling seriously off the rails.

But this is increasingly who we are in 2010 -- an unforgiving nation where you can be zapped with 50,000 volts for a minor transgression, where you might be stopped on an Arizona street corner for having brown skin or speaking with the wrong kind of accent, and where citizens who are accused but not convicted of a crime are no longer all equal under the law. It is a nation where we are suddenly all Steve Consalvi every time we get up from our seats of conformity, never knowing where a new shock to our system might come from.

Call it a "post 911 world" if you want, but I would call it the slow, sad Taserification of America. At least on the green grass of left field in South Philadelphia, it was all out in the open for a change, for all of us to see.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: banglist; barneyfife; donutwatch; jackboots
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1 posted on 05/06/2010 9:22:20 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: Blue Jays
Watching that kid get Tasered was absolutely hilarious!
He dropped onto the playing field like a sack of potatoes.
2 posted on 05/06/2010 9:25:52 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

While I do not agree with the political slant to the article I do agree that our law enforcement in this country is borderline out of control.


3 posted on 05/06/2010 9:26:20 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: Blue Jays

Well we could always bring back Roman Gladiators to keep folks like you entertained.


4 posted on 05/06/2010 9:27:44 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Who knew the ump was packin’?


5 posted on 05/06/2010 9:28:19 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Obie Wan Nairobi from the 1/2 dark side. The farce with this one strong, it is...)
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To: Blue Jays

We could also feed those accused of jay walking to the lions while were at it...


6 posted on 05/06/2010 9:28:23 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Best not to break the law, I suppose.


7 posted on 05/06/2010 9:29:23 PM PDT by Hexenhammer (sic semper tyrannis)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

I am just plain damn tired of criminals.

Period.

I don’t care if they’re in Congress or running on the field in Philly. I want them in jail and I don’t give a damn if the police officer has to taser them to slap cuffs on them.


8 posted on 05/06/2010 9:29:26 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Good article.

I wonder how many residents of Florida there are that hasn’t been tazed yet.
It seems the cops down there have been shock crazy the past 10 years.
If some clown ever tazed me i would track him down eventually and make sure his life is not so good.


9 posted on 05/06/2010 9:29:30 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

ya know, after that ignorant bastard forced himself to projectile vomit on a Philadelphia Police Officer and his 11 year old daughter at a Phillies game a couple of weeks ago, this kid is lucky he didn’t get zapped by half a dozen tasers.

There are consequences for one’s actions, and the earlier kids these days learn that lesson, even if they insist on learning it the hard way, the better off they will be in the long run and the longer they will live.

Knowing how to behave in a civilized manner can often make the difference between life and death.


10 posted on 05/06/2010 9:31:00 PM PDT by Bean Counter (We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office -- Aesop)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

I don’t think the cop over-reacted. They were chasing down and attempting to remove a person who was disrupting a baseball game for thousands of other people. Who knows how long it would have taken to catch the guy, tackle him and possibly injure him physically tackling him, and having the exact same people who are bitching about him being tasered, bitch about excessive use of force catching the guy a different way.

People who do this are attention whores breaking the law. They have no right to do it I have no problem with how they were able to remove this person from his “Hey look at me!” moment and get the ball game going again for the rest of the people who came there to watch THAT, not this putz, in peace.


11 posted on 05/06/2010 9:34:27 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: All

don’t taze me brow


12 posted on 05/06/2010 9:35:08 PM PDT by ak267
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To: mowowie
If anybody feels like ragging on my post remember that Florida's finest has a habit of tazering handicap women in wheelchairs and 5 year olds.
13 posted on 05/06/2010 9:35:40 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: Bean Counter
Knowing how to behave in a civilized manner can often make the difference between life and death.

So acting up in public is now a crime punishable by summary execution carried out immediately by uniformed executioners of the state, on the spot?

Wow.. welcome to Germany circa. 1933

14 posted on 05/06/2010 9:36:37 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Just Philly being Philly..


15 posted on 05/06/2010 9:41:23 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Well, somehow ballpark personnel has been able to handle this situation for 100 years without the tazer.
Besides, everytime i’ve been to a ballgame and some clown runs on the feild the fans seem to love it.

I remember being at a Red Sox game around 1986 or so. the Sox were like 15 games out of first.
It was pathetic, even 15 games out Fenway always sells out.
There must of been like 7 guys running out there during the game.
The game itself was a joke and the fans seemed to love it.
Next thing you know i will be tazed just for laughing.


16 posted on 05/06/2010 9:43:56 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
This article is a bunch of leftist horse&&^#.

Let me set out the reality: Law enforcement has no way of determining in the moment whether any unauthorized person on the field is just an idiot kid or a potential terrorist (see Times Square Bomber, suicide bombers, or the lunatic who knifed Steffi Graf).

The taser brings down the idiot quick and with no permanent damage.

17 posted on 05/06/2010 9:44:06 PM PDT by mojito
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Just watch the George Lucas-directed 1971 sci-fi film called, “THX 1138.” In it the robocops use cattle prods to keep the population in check. Tasers are just human versions of cattle prods.


18 posted on 05/06/2010 9:45:48 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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To: vladimir998

I would support tasers if they used them on politicians and bureaucrats, but they don’t. They are an instrument for intimidating the population. The cops are going to have to decide whose side they are on.


19 posted on 05/06/2010 9:47:04 PM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
This guy is a bit too ready to slam whoever he doesn't like even when it doesn't make sense. Yes, the cops are a little too ready to taze people, so he tries to tie that into "right wingers" when, as he's forced to admit that Glenn Beck is speaking up for the constitution... he thinks thats ironic, because he doesn't understand that conservatism is constitutionalism... and he ignores the fact that the most famous tazing was the poor kid who tried to ask John Kerry a question at a town hall meeting.

He tries to drag in Bush era torture when, by now, most people understand that cutting off people's heads is torture; making them wear women's underwear isn't.

He gets off the snappy one-liner that "people aren't illegal" and thinks he's really got us. Of course, he's referring to illegal... I think the term is "aliens" and in fact, yes, people can be aliens and when they are trespassing in someone else's territory they would be "illegal aliens". Aliens, you see, who are trespassing and hence, illegally so.

Is it totalitarian to ask foreign visitors to show their identification? Maybe it is in his on-line Civ simu-world, but in the real world, in every country in the world foreigners are required to carry their passports and produce them on demand. And in the countries most of our visitors come from, even citizens are required to carry their national ID and produce it on demand. The people he hates to call "illegal" know this because thats where they are from. Furthermore it doesn't hurt their feelings to call them illegal because they know they are illegal.

If he goes to visit the country of their birth he had better carry his papers with him while he's there.

20 posted on 05/06/2010 9:51:11 PM PDT by marron
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

21 posted on 05/06/2010 9:52:31 PM PDT by Niteflyr ("Just because something is free doesn't mean it's good for you".)
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To: marron

Good points.

I only skimmed the article.
I did see the incident at hand and have read MANY tazer horror stories.
Tazers definitely have their purpose, it seems though that many are abusing that purpose.


22 posted on 05/06/2010 9:55:42 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: Secret Agent Man
You are 100% precisely correct with your post.
It was very easy for that young man to avoid being Tasered while attending the game.
23 posted on 05/06/2010 10:01:45 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: marron
He gets off the snappy one-liner that "people aren't illegal" and thinks he's really got us. Of course, he's referring to illegal... I think the term is "aliens" and in fact, yes, people can be aliens and when they are trespassing in someone else's territory they would be "illegal aliens". Aliens, you see, who are trespassing and hence, illegally so.

It's not snappy it's moronic. If there is a law banning you from a place without authorization and you are in that place illegally you are illegally there. Hence if you are a person then you are an illegal person. Yes Sparky (author of article) people can be illegal.

24 posted on 05/06/2010 10:04:32 PM PDT by Niteflyr ("Just because something is free doesn't mean it's good for you".)
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To: Blue Jays

Was that a cop who tazed him?

If not I would track that guy down and lay a a MAJOR beating on him.
And i was never a violent guy before 2008.


25 posted on 05/06/2010 10:05:20 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
So, to the writer, the guy was simply an undocumented baseball player, no one to worry about (because he couldn't possibly be carrying C4 or a jackknife—anyone could tell just by looking at him).

Why not just let all of the undocumented baseball players on the field? While we're at it, let's spread around the legal baseball players’, refs’, umps’ and bat boys’, as well as the fans’, salaries to the undocumented ones. If any of the undocumented trip on the field, they also deserve an expensive sports doc, an ambulance and whatever treatment is necessary, all for free, of course. After all, they paid some tax on the refreshments and the tickets (if they didn't sneak in).

All in all, we should simply stop stopping people from being where we think they don't belong; what do rules mean anyway? How dare we not trust a person with unknown intentions running (and running and running) somewhere he wasn't supposed to be!

26 posted on 05/06/2010 10:13:02 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: JSteff

Recall the 1980 Phillies. I found a Youtube video of the final out of the World Series, which included a shot of some police K-9 teams behind home plate ( noted by the announcer, ) but I didn’t find what I was looking for. That is, a shot of the mounted police patrolling the warning track en masse. I’m guessing this was at the end of one of the playoff series. This was widely viewed at the time as a fascistic display, but nobody got tased, and nobody even THOUGHT about running on to the field. Of course this was under Mayor Frank Rizzo.


27 posted on 05/06/2010 10:15:57 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: mowowie

It was a police officer who Tasered the young man.


28 posted on 05/06/2010 10:45:39 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

The gleeful reaction to the tasering of that young man is as sickening as the tasering itself.

There is some serious lack of humanity going on here.


29 posted on 05/06/2010 10:55:13 PM PDT by Carley (WE CAN SEE NOVEMBER FROM OUR HOUSE)
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To: Carley
Many here on this forum could counsel that young man on a 100% effective and low-cost method on how to NOT get tasered at a MLB game.
30 posted on 05/06/2010 11:06:34 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I'm going to get flamed for this...

But I think this has to do with the feminization of the police force. Most women weren't capable of taking down a big male suspect so they gave them tools and new rules of engagement so they could. Once new tools and rules were introduced, everyone has to do the same... That lowest common denominator thing...

But I could be wrong...

31 posted on 05/06/2010 11:07:42 PM PDT by DB
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To: Blue Jays

All right then.....

I remember being 18 years old back in 1985.
I was working sporting goods at the local Lechmere department store.
An asian guy came up to me and my buddy and showed us a hand held tazer weapon.
Giant sparks from 2 AA batteries or a 9 volt, i forget.
We were amazed.
Then i learned how to build a much stronger one.....
never used it on a person though.
We did shock some kids in electronics class with giant capacitors.....
That was fun.


32 posted on 05/06/2010 11:10:55 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: DB

I kinda agree with you, that the police as a whole seem to be more fearful of doing the job and as a byproduct only seem comfortable when at invasion force level numbers or approaching every situation with a gun in their hands.

And they seem all too quick to use deadly force for lesser and lesser crimes, all in the name of “officer safety”. When the national stats clearly show their occupation is one of the safest one’s you can get.


33 posted on 05/06/2010 11:13:09 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: DB
Feminization? Nah - it is because that fat cop didn't want to have to chase the guy anymore. His nachos were getting cold.
34 posted on 05/06/2010 11:18:51 PM PDT by 70times7 (Serving Free Republics' warped and obscure humor needs since 1999!)
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To: ak267
don’t taze me brow

Don't call me brow, bro! I'm gonna taze ya!

35 posted on 05/06/2010 11:22:35 PM PDT by 70times7 (Serving Free Republics' warped and obscure humor needs since 1999!)
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To: mowowie
I did see the incident at hand and have read MANY tazer horror stories. Tazers definitely have their purpose, it seems though that many are abusing that purpose.

I agree with you. And if that was his only point I'd have agreed with him. I'm seeing the same thing more and more. Its like a new toy and they've just got to try it out. Officer thinks you're a bit mouthy, down you go.

Now, junior high school teachers, thats another thing. It should be considered basic equipment.

36 posted on 05/06/2010 11:43:49 PM PDT by marron
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Peoples imagination takes a hold when they think of getting stunned by one of these weapons.

Akin to the fear a kid has when gets his first vacinations. Your brain sykes you out.


37 posted on 05/06/2010 11:50:17 PM PDT by dila813
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To: DB

You are right on, but you left out affimative action, law suits from physical takedowns, and junkies with contaminated Aids needles, and many other things.


38 posted on 05/06/2010 11:58:20 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dr_lew
“Of course this was under Mayor Frank Rizzo.”

So were those the good old days.. or what.....

39 posted on 05/07/2010 12:33:32 AM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

run out on the field, disrupt the game for tens of thousands of people — good grief I can’t believe anyone would whine about him getting his butt tased. Probably deserved a few whacks with a nightstick as well just to remind him the next day not to be such a fool again.


40 posted on 05/07/2010 2:09:52 AM PDT by Da Mav
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To: Blue Jays
It's a predictable result of giving cops Tasers.

Let's assume I'm a cop. I'm chasing some guy of unknown mental stability, with the intent of subduing and arresting him. I can either tackle him at risk of injury to myself if he decides to put up a fight, or I can Taser him and have no risk of injuring myself. Hmmm, I think I'm going to Taser him.

If you give a cop a device than will bring down a perp, and using the device has no career-damaging effects on the cop (unlike shooting the perp with a real gun would), the cop will use his little handy device at every opportunity.

41 posted on 05/07/2010 2:42:42 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: mojito

I agree, a leftist screed. This is the same mentality that says it’s OK for illegals to run across the border.

Why bother stopping anybody from doing anything? I guess we should just all sit back and enjoy the anarchy show. Probably more exciting than the baseball game.


42 posted on 05/07/2010 4:11:21 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch (Rush Limbaugh, the Winston Churchill of our time)
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To: Blue Jays
Watching that kid get Tasered was absolutely hilarious! He dropped onto the playing field like a sack of potatoes.

As another Freeper said on a thread earlier this week, watching that cop chase down and taser that guy was like watching an episode of "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom." I loved it!

43 posted on 05/07/2010 4:17:34 AM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: mojito
You are right-on with your observations. Until officers have a way determining quickly and correctly the intentions of someone the blame has to fall on the victim. Sounds cruel I guess, but of all the people on the field only one person knew for sure what this person had in mind and he wasn't sharing it with the cops, the umpires or the players.

A situation has to be handled with respect to the potential it presents. Once the officers were in pursuit of the guy they were responsible for the outcome of the incident. In retrospect the use of the taser seems a bit over-reaching. But if he had pulled a knife and stabbed a player or official the officers would have been roundly criticized.

We have completely lost the idea that when someone does something they, and they alone, are responsible for what happens to them. This kid could avoided all of this by either not running onto the field, or not making them chase him.

As for tackling him those who advocate that have probably seen too many movies and TV shows. It's not as simple a matter as presented in the script, especially for an officer wearing a good deal of equipment.

Nope, the guy set the whole thing in motion and presented the cops with a potentially dangerous situation. They responded based on the worst that could happen, it frequently costs them dearly to respond based on the best they could expect.

In retrospect, the officer could have handled the situation without the taser. But it's darn hard to chase someone on foot and at the same time get out your retrospectrocope and determine what you're really facing.

44 posted on 05/07/2010 4:25:58 AM PDT by jwparkerjr
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To: DB

I don’t know if it has to do with the feminization of the force, although that’s an interesting point to bring up and could be contributing to the taser-happy attitude which seems to be the rule today.

What concerns me a little more was the fact that no security personnel were able to outrun the kid and tackle him? Granted, the kid isn’t wearing a utility belt with 10-20 pounds of tools on it like a police officer but it seems at least one officer or security guy would have been fit enough to chase him down.

It reminds me of the story a short while ago where a suspect was fleeing from a pursuing officer. Turns out the officer was a marathon runner and was able to keep up. The suspect eventually just gave up when he realized that he would tire out before the officer would.


45 posted on 05/07/2010 4:59:34 AM PDT by Crolis ("Nemo me impune lacessit!" - "No one provokes me with impunity!")
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

That’s not what I said at all. Please try again...


46 posted on 05/07/2010 5:24:54 AM PDT by Bean Counter (We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office -- Aesop)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Sorry, but - no.

I also watched the video of that stupid kid when he ran onto the field. If they shouldn’t have used a Taser on him, fine, but then he should have stopped running away from them. He was obviously committing a crime. If you think the Taser hurts, imagine how it feels when six cops tackle you and twist your arms behind your back, jamming your face and your knees into the ground so you can’t bite them, punch them, or kick them while they take you into custody. Arms, legs, and jaws get broken that way.

Or are you suggesting that they should have chased him around the field until he got tired of it and surrendered? Exactly how many times are they supposed to yell, “Stop,” before they can decide that the kid is not going to stop?

As to McCain, he’s a moron. We have a huge problem with illegal aliens. Literally millions of them came from Mexico or came through there. They speak Spanish and look like they’re from there. If we had a huge problem with Norwegian grandmothers bankrupting our country while smuggling drugs across the border, we’d be looking for people who eat lutefisk during Advent.

Incidentally, if you go to New York or Boston, you’ll find loads of Polish, Russian, and Irish illegal aliens. And yes, I.C.E. loves to raid construction sites and bust the day laborers there. But they haven’t got a racist lobby in Washington and a stupid senator to support them, so out they go.


47 posted on 05/07/2010 5:30:59 AM PDT by sig226 (Mourn this day, the death of a great republic. March 21, 2010)
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To: sig226

If given a choice of taking me down, I would choose the tazer.

We used to practice on each other, and having 5 guys on your back even when they know it is practice hurts like a son of a #$%^%^. Not only that, I was sore for two weeks.


48 posted on 05/07/2010 9:15:19 AM PDT by dila813
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Tasers are better than cattle prods, they have range.


49 posted on 05/07/2010 9:18:10 AM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: discostu

The Socialization of America and the world is to convert/strip human beings of their humanity and have them become animals. Then you treat them as such and the taser is a part of that process.


50 posted on 05/07/2010 9:30:41 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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