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Nissan Leaf EV to Have Ultra-Cheap Battery Pack
fast company ^ | May 5, 2010 | Ariel Schwartz

Posted on 05/08/2010 7:37:51 AM PDT by mylife

Nissan Leaf EV to Have Ultra-Cheap Battery Pack BY Ariel Schwartz Wed May 5, 2010

Over 8,200 people have made online reservations in the past month for the upcoming Nissan Leaf EV, and for good reason. The $33,000 vehicle, set to be released later this year, is the first affordable all-electric vehicle from a major auto manufacturer. It's an early adopter's dream. Now Nissan has revealed the secret behind the Leaf's reasonable price: an ultra-cheap battery pack.

While most lithium-ion batteries cost $1000 to $1,200 per kWh, the Leaf's 24 kWh battery pack costs just $9,000 to produce, or $375 per kWh, according to a report in the Times of London. In comparison, the Chevy Volt battery pack reportedly costs $600 per kWh, and even the U.S. Advanced Battery Consortium only has a goal of producing batteries at $400 per kWh by mid-decade.

So what gives? If the report is correct, Nissan could revolutionize the EV battery industry--assuming it will share its technology with other automakers. We still have our doubts, though, that this too-good-to-be-true pricing scheme is real. Nissan hasn't yet responded to our request for comment.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: automakers; automotive; electriccars; energy; futilecycle; green; nissan; pipedream; pixiedust; ripoff
So I hear that the fed is giving a 7.8K tax credit to make these things affordable.

Thats right, YOU get to pay 7.8K for every smug liberal ahole that buys one of these.

When did we vote on that?

1 posted on 05/08/2010 7:37:52 AM PDT by mylife
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To: mylife

How much are we going to charge (pardon the pun) idiots who drive these for vehicle removal when their glorified Power Wheels dies in the middle of the road?


2 posted on 05/08/2010 7:38:37 AM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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3 posted on 05/08/2010 7:39:01 AM PDT by mylife (Opinions: $1 Halfbaked: 50c)
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To: pnh102

Good question.


4 posted on 05/08/2010 7:39:47 AM PDT by mylife (Opinions: $1 Halfbaked: 50c)
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Only 33K! Woo Woo!


5 posted on 05/08/2010 7:41:10 AM PDT by mylife (Opinions: $1 Halfbaked: 50c)
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To: mylife

Cheap SLA batteries?


6 posted on 05/08/2010 7:41:35 AM PDT by cavador (Wash your Hands-Cover that sneeze!It helps stop the H1N1 Virus)
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To: mylife

Will they be like the battery packs for computer laptops, and have a couple of cells go bad making the entire pack useless?


7 posted on 05/08/2010 7:42:52 AM PDT by laker_dad
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To: mylife
"Leaf's 24 kWh battery pack costs just $9,000"

A gallon of gasoline contains 40 kWh of energy. 24 kWh of gasoline costs less than two bucks.

8 posted on 05/08/2010 7:44:07 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: mylife
The $33,000 vehicle, set to be released later this year, is the first affordable all-electric vehicle from a major auto manufacturer.

$33K = affordable??

9 posted on 05/08/2010 7:47:27 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: norwaypinesavage

>> A gallon of gasoline contains 40 kWh of energy. 24 kWh of gasoline costs less than two bucks.

Yeah, but once you burn up the gas, it’s gone. You can charge the 24kWh battery pack up again and again and again! (With electricity from an oil or coal fired electric power plant. ;-) )


10 posted on 05/08/2010 7:50:54 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Eat more spinach! Make Green Jobs for America!)
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To: mylife

Gosh, an ultra-cheap battery that only costs $9,000? Wow!

And more KW-sucking greenies attached to the power grid with one hand, while they vote to close down coal, oil, and nuclear power plants with the other.


11 posted on 05/08/2010 7:51:38 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: norwaypinesavage

“A gallon of gasoline contains 40 kWh of energy.”

By my figures, this is wrong. The right answer is 28 kwh. Plus, the engine is only 40% efficient so that makes it effectively 11.176 kWh of useful energy.


12 posted on 05/08/2010 8:00:04 AM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: mylife
It looks like an inverted bathtub.

I went to Lowes to buy a battery for my riding lawn mower, it was like $25 but they gave me a $5 credit for the old battery, or the "core".

So I get the new battery, go to the checkout line, and they charge me only $20, with an EXTRA $5 CHARGE TO RECYCLE THE "CORE"...this was about 2 years ago.

So, I have vowed to just never take them another core, I'd rather just drop it off at the local recycling center and buy the battery outright...but, it won't be from Lowes.

A lesson lies therein for the coming "electric car" craze...those batteries are going to be E X P E N S I V E...especially at first, THEN you're going to have a hell of a time "disposing of them". You've got to buy them, and then pay to "throw them out".

All I know about batteries is, they go dead a lot faster than an internal engine goes dead.

I hope they only sell them to the fringe, lunatic environuts.
13 posted on 05/08/2010 8:01:14 AM PDT by FrankR (Standing up against tyranny must start somewhere, or the future will belong to the tyrants.)
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To: DTogo

thats what I said!


14 posted on 05/08/2010 8:01:24 AM PDT by mylife (Opinions: $1 Halfbaked: 50c)
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To: babygene
Wikipedia, if you can believe them, says 36.6 kWh per US gallon. (Sorry, I did the calculation of 40 in my head.) The useful efficiency of electricity is not 100% either. You have wires, chargers, dischargers, motors, inverters, transmission systems, regeneration for braking, etc. It's certainly higher than an IC powertrain, but no where near 100%.
15 posted on 05/08/2010 8:17:17 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: norwaypinesavage

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ArthurGolnik.shtml. It’s in kilograms so you have to convert...

motor efficiencies are over 90%. Chargers in the high 90s.


16 posted on 05/08/2010 8:24:36 AM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: DTogo

LOL, just what I was thinking. Of course when I buy a car I take care of it and drive it until it just won’t run anymore or I give/sell it to a needy family member.

Still even a new car for me is a good used car. LOL

If I can’t pay cash I don’t buy it.


17 posted on 05/08/2010 8:30:39 AM PDT by WHBates
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To: mylife

bump


18 posted on 05/08/2010 8:44:23 AM PDT by VOA
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To: pnh102


How much are we going to charge (pardon the pun) idiots who drive these
for vehicle removal when their glorified Power Wheels dies in the
middle of the road?

I suspect one of my barely-literate relatives will clean up
when it comes time to put one of these dead cars (and their battery) into
a land-fill.
(or make $$$ off the recycling scheme that surely must have already
been constructed by Obama and Co.).


19 posted on 05/08/2010 8:47:22 AM PDT by VOA
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To: norwaypinesavage

...and then there’s the question where the energy to heat the darn thing in winter comes from. I figure you’d need a couple of kWs at least. So you’ll be driving slower or not go very far...


20 posted on 05/08/2010 9:50:03 AM PDT by Moltke (DOPE will get you 4 to 8 in the Big House - HOPE will get you 4 to 8 in the White House.)
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To: Moltke
Shhh.... Don't tell anyone. Here's my plan: I'm going to sell a tow behind battery charger, that runs on gasoline. You pull it behind your Leaf, and it charges the battery. It will also provide air conditioning in the summer. Waste heat will heat the Leaf in cold weather. It will extend your range from 50 miles, to 400 miles, so you can take it on vacations, and fill it up at regular filling stations.

What a plan!! Only $11,000.

21 posted on 05/08/2010 9:58:38 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: mylife

You wanna see traffic clogs?

Just wait ‘till the liberals start buying Leafmobiles and find they have to creep along at 20 mph on busy roads trying to squeeze a few more miles out of them just to get home to their federally-subsidized charging station without having to call for a tow truck.


22 posted on 05/08/2010 10:34:32 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ("...a whip of political correctness strangles their voice"-Vaclav Klaus on GW skeptics)
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To: norwaypinesavage

LOL, great plan. I was only going to mention an auxilliary gasoline heater...looks like you’ve got the A/C problem covered as well!


23 posted on 05/08/2010 10:51:17 AM PDT by Moltke (panem et circensis - it's back!)
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To: mylife

I really like Nissan styling, but Volkwagen has a better idea: a four cylinder engine with a turbocharger! Wheeeeeeee! It’s economical until you need to accelerate and then it’s a kick in the seat.

Forget all those batteries and Rube Goldberg devices.


24 posted on 05/08/2010 12:13:30 PM PDT by RoadTest (Religion is a substitute for the relationship God wants with you.)
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To: babygene

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ArthurGolnik.shtml. It’s in kilograms so you have to convert...

motor efficiencies are over 90%. Chargers in the high 90s.


OK then, 97% charger efficiency, and 92% motor efficiency...

At 8 cents per KW-hr average (14.3 cents in New York state) the 40 KW-hr battery will take $3.58 cents to “fill up” and a high of $6.41 in NY.

Sounds like a fill up is more than half the price of old fashioned gasoline - after you have spent $33,000 on a puny little car...:^)


25 posted on 05/08/2010 1:37:05 PM PDT by az_gila (AZ - one Governor down... we don't want her back...)
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To: az_gila

“Sounds like a fill up is more than half the price of old fashioned gasoline”

I wasn’t arguing that the electric car is viable, only that the numbers being used were wrong.

Indeed, the price of charging an electric car is bound to go up substantially once their in common use, because the tax man will find a way to extract the road tax...

Also, the electric car ends up polluting MORE, because much of the electricity will be generated by burning coal.


26 posted on 05/08/2010 2:41:56 PM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: babygene
Plus, the engine is only 40% efficient so that makes it effectively 11.176 kWh of useful energy.

That is thermal efficiency at an ideal load. If you figure in the whole drivetrain and real-world driving conditions, its less than half that in useful energy, i.e. propulsion.
27 posted on 05/09/2010 6:08:47 AM PDT by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: wolf78

“its less than half that in useful energy, i.e. propulsion.”

Actually it’s worse than that... This efficiency conversion was based on both the gasoline engine and the electric motor(s) being the same size. They are not.

The sizing for electric motors in EV conversions is odd. A vehicle that used a 100HP engine would only take about a 20 HP electric motor to give similar performance. This is well established and has to do with the rating systems for gas versus electric motors among other things. Brake HP for gas engines and average for electric motors.

So we wouldn’t be comparing a 26 KW gas engine to a 26 kw electric motor. The equivalent gas engine would be maybe 120 KW.

In my opinion, Hybrids make a lot more sense than electrics though.


28 posted on 05/09/2010 7:35:26 AM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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