Skip to comments.Students of the Great Recession (more people going to college)
Posted on 05/09/2010 5:04:41 AM PDT by reaganaut1
The Great Depression did not have too many silver linings, but it did change the way Americans thought about education, clearly for the better. In 1930, only 30 percent of teenagers graduated from high school. By 1940, after a decade in which there often was nothing better to do than stay in school, the number had jumped to 50 percent. The Depression didnt just make Americans tougher. It made them smarter.
In the years that followed, these newly skilled workers helped create an economic colossus. They were the factory workers, office clerks and managers who built up General Motors, U.S. Steel, R.C.A. and I.B.M. So when our own Great Recession began more than two years ago, it was reasonable to hope that something similar, if less extreme, might take place.
In a historical echo, the share of young adults in recent years who graduated from college happened to be about 30 percent. By any serious reckoning, that number was too low. The gap between the pay of college graduates and everyone else has grown sharply over the last three decades, reaching a new all-time high last year, which suggests that workers with a degree are too scarce a resource. There may indeed be a natural ceiling on how many college graduates a society should produce, but the United States does not appear close to it.
A deep recession has the potential to change that. It can keep people in school, or drive them back to school, in two main ways. First, it reduces the opportunity cost to use the technical term of attending college. When times are tough, you are less likely to be missing out on a good $20-an-hour job by being in class.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
We’re trying to get our son (22, NOT living at home) to go back to college full time; there’s no better time than now, because he can’t find a job and Grandma will 100% bankroll him if he does so.
Of course, he knows what’s best, as do all of the unemployed 0bama voters out there. *Rolleyes*
And I totally agree; most of America has been dumbed down to the point where higher education is an impossibility for most...all by design, Comrade. All by design. ;)
People might not be smart enough to study at a college level, but people are smart enough to learn a new trade. During the Depression, technical correspondence schools flourished.
If the result would be a greater output of engineers, great. Unfortunately, the vast majority are going to be in the non-technical areas. Worse yet, more lawyers, MBAs, accountants, and other overhead personnel of which there already is a glut. And almost all of them are impossibly in debt.
About 29% of adults over 24 are college grads and about 1% have advanced degrees. Only about 4% of people with average IQ (100)or lower have college degrees. It seems like there are a lot people who can’t handle a higher education (college, at least). As to learning a new trade, apparently there are a lot of people who aren’t disciplined enough to complete such training.
So, they major in Political "Science", Ethnomania, Art Appreciation, "Journalism", or Gender Hatred, and along the way are programmed into good little Socialists who vote for "Change".
You beat me to my comment. Most of them will be fluff majors and it’ll be even worse than lawyers, accountants, etc. It’ll be psych, history, and african american studies majors.
I wonder if there is a single recorded instance anywhere of anyone using anything they learned in african american, gender, women’s, etc. studies to improve our international competitiveness.
He also ignores the fact that many people are simply not smart enough to study subjects at a college level, for example taking calculus or producing a coherent, footnoted 20-page term paper using a variety of sources.
It’s not just that. Most jobs require at best a 1 or 2 year apprenticeship. Of course that wouldn’t support an army of liberal indoctrinators.
Law School Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com
The ability of the Left to put happy faces on this major recession is incredible.
Hell; you don't even have to be a U.S. Citizen to get handouts now.
We've had the Democrats/Socialists create a dependent-class that assures they can stay in office, ALSO living off the earnings of working folks, and voting themselves raises and perks, at will.....
Is this a great country, or what?
How true. I recently purchased a new computer at Best Buy and the sales assistant, an African American, said he was thinking of going back to college to “earn” his masters in Africology.
“And I totally agree; most of America has been dumbed down to the point where higher education is an impossibility for most...all by design, Comrade. All by design. ;)”
Not say that ALL higher education is bad; but most I’ve seen from higher education are not that impressive IMO.
I think when you look at what some are paying out, and what they’re getting in return (for wages) it’s not worth it.
I just don’t see the returns being worth the initial cost. It’s way overpriced IMO.
“How true. I recently purchased a new computer at Best Buy and the sales assistant, an African American, said he was thinking of going back to college to earn his masters in Africology.”
....and his work skills will still be on par with what he learned from Best Buy. The End.
The ability? That would suggest they’re accomplishing the happy faces. I don’t see it.
More like the determination is incredible. I’m sick of it.
America’s education system and the choices that students are making is a snapshot of what is wrong with the country in general. Instead of creating a good business environment where creators and engineers and provide good jobs for the workforce, it is government and unnecessary paper-pushing where the remaining growth is.
So we’re educating a larger proportion of paper-pushers and artistes ... call me unimpressed.
What is so great about a bunch of people going back to school so they can pile up massive debts and still be unemployed?
Here’s one for you. I know a 30+ year old who is starting college this summer. She got a pell grant or something. The kicker is that she’s on social security disability for being bi-polar. So, our tax dollars are paying not only for her “disability,” they will also be paying for her to go to college.
This woman will never enter the workforce. She has never held a “real” job. She cleans houses or babysits every now and then, for which she gets paid off the books.
Well, I suppose he will still be at Best Buy afterward. Unless he is programmed to resent working for The Man.
A lack of critical thinking, to ask the question, "What will these studies gain me, and what career or earnings benefit do they have?" does not seem to be an encouraging predictor.
Until we dispose of this kind of foolishness, people will be burdened with student loans for absolutely no gain. What a scam.
And where would the "professors" be?
Do you have a source for these statistics, especially the 4% one? I think you are right, but I'd like to be able to cite sources for future discussions.
Let the Media know about her!!!
We have our first woman president!!!
Are you sure she was never a community organizer? That's a sure winner.
The universities created this problem themselves (segregated, useless disciplines like Africology, Women’s Studies, etc.) when they refused to honor the spirit of Affirmative Action when it was imposed on colleges receiving federal funding.
The intent was to include minorities in the general hiring pools for all disciplines. Instead, to meet their quotas for minority hiring, they created these grievance departments, which must grow ever more radical to gain attention (i.e. funding) - and minority hiring in real disciplines is still woefully low.
Exactly. Vast numbers of people are graduating from colleges each year. In the past, due to the natural attrition of retirement and a growing economy, there would be room made for them to join the work force. Now the economy is shrinking and people aren't retiring.
The American people are one of the smartest populations in the world.
The myth that the people of the USA are “stupid”, “sheep” “dumb” etc is a socialist myth expanded by them to justify their massive intervention in people's personal lives.
They know “better” they are the “smart ones” we “need” them to manage the “stupid” people.
This is how the schools justify the attack on parents rights, how the government justifies its takeover of our freedoms.
To see the majority of posters on a site like Free Republic not only embrace the myth but expand on it is music to the socialist's ears.
The American people are not stupid, they do not need a sugar daddy to take care of them. A college grad no matter what the major he/she takes is smart enough to mange their own lives. A high school grad from American schools is smarter than the majority of the world population.
Yes there is indoctrination and yes their is some stupid people in any population but using one or two anecdotal examples to paint a broad brush for the entire population only furthers the myth and allows the socialist takeover of this country to continue on pace.
As a college professor, I can tell you that more people going to college is not necessarily a good things. There are many students in college today who clearly do not belong there. Either they are too lazy to do the work or they lack the preparation. I have one General Education class where one of the poorest students in the class told me he was a graduating senior. He wasn’t a major from my Dept, but it shocked me nontheless. Have a BA/BS degree today is probably the equivalent of a HS diploma circa 1950.
And I totally agree; most of America has been dumbed down to the point where higher education is an impossibility for most...all by design, Comrade. All by design. ;)
Yes, it IS all by design and the current “higher education” system is a disgrace.
Personally I think our greater need is to return to the school system we had when a high school graduate had a high school education rather than continue to send people to graduate school and hope they have a high school education at the end of it all.
Take a look at the WISC-IV book. That is the most used intelligence test.
Should set him up well for the "Community Organizer" career path... (cough)
I forgot to mention that she’s also bisexual. Add that to the list of her presidential qualifications!
Sometimes I think we need a lot more history majors! If Americans knew more about history they might not be so quick to fall for the leftist line. They would be aware that all these “new ideas” are very old ideas that have been proven wrong time and time again.
Actually I just learned that someone I know casually who is a successful local businessman is...a history major.
Seriously, we need to have history taught in the first twelve years as it used to be. I have yet to meet a recent university graduate, history major or otherwise who knows all the history I learned in public schools. I only remember part of it myself but that is sufficient to surpass the knowledge of history of almost anyone I know who is under forty years of age.
Then there is the matter of knowing how the government is SUPPOSED to work. While still in high school my generation had to learn to write a description of how a bill originated and how it traveled through the house and senate, the process of presidential approval or veto, how a veto could be overridden, and much, much more. We probably knew more about the functioning of congress than most newly elected congressman do now. Most young people now seem to know just about zero concerning that subject.
We also studied the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution from beginning to end. We went over each amendment and discussed what it was intended to accomplish and how it had worked out in practice.
There are some now who say that history is a waste of time, I say look at the condition of this country and realize that the major, some might say the sole cause of this mess is a failure to learn from history.
It is good to have engineers, scientists, physicians but even they need to know the history of the world if they are to be responsible citizens.
I have a test from one hundred years ago to graduate eighth grade— there’s plenty in higher education that could not pass it.
Nobody is saying the people are dumb; more like the education system is dumbed-down and over rated, and or over priced.
I’m saying the opposite of what you think; with the exceptions of the practical degrees there are plenty that are not worth what you get out of it in regards to wages. Also, I believe there’s a lot fluff requirements that can be learned on your own simply by going to the library.
See post 24, you made to clear him up.
Like I told him, I have a test from 100 years ago that was published in a local paper about 6 years ago. The test was to graduate 8th grade.
I couldn’t pass it.
I’m thinking of posting it but I had have to type it word for word.
This has been my whole point. People aren’t getting the returns they normally get in regards to wages in the first place, and now it’s much worse.
"War is Peace," "Freedom is Slavery," "Ignorance is Strength."
Wasn’t that trend going on well before that? Not saying that the Depression didn’t have an effect but perhaps it wasn’t as strong a cause as the author implies.
I think we push too much for college. We don’t need every high schooler to be on a college path. Its wasteful. Many jobs that require college degrees now don’t require college skills so we are wasting time and money in educating as many in college. I support a much stronger push for vocational skills.
Shocking isn’t it? I can tell you she is definitely not alone as this is a common practice among welfare recipients as well. The practice of enrolling for college with enough credits to carry one’s benefit through to the next period to show the gubmint they are trying (and then dropping courses)is a popular one.
It drives me barking mad! Their job is to figure out how to obtain money from the government, but they don’t see it as taking from other people.
Only about 4% of people with average IQ (100)or lower have college degrees
I am surprised that it is as high as 4%.
I completely agree.
One of the goals of the communist party was to get control of the schools. And...Yuri Besmenov, the former KGB, spy warned us about the communist goal to DE-moralize our nation.
That we had put in place in the mid-1800s to early 1900s a system of socialist-funded, socialist-modeled, single payer government schools made this infiltration of the schools, its unions, and central planning committees much easier for the communists. It would have been harder if we educated our nation's children in thousands of single and independent private schools.
It seems to me that conservatives will rally themselves to oppose individual legislation or to oppose truly flagrant Democrat politicians and policies. Conservatives though have NO LONG TERM PLAN TO RE-MORALIZE THE NATION.
If our nation is to survive we must shut down the government schools. Government schools are socialism and socialism can not be reformed. Conservatives must find a way to get our nation's kids into private conservative schools.
There’s only one problem with your proposal; that isn’t how history is taught at the high school or college level.
Once upon a time, students learned about American exceptionalism and the genius of the founding fathers; the Constitution and the electoral process. Unfortunately, much of that has been replaced with “history” that treats all ideas (and ideologies) equally, while downplaying, ignoring or heavily criticizing the contributions of our founders, and the Judeo-Christian priciples that guided them.
If you want an example of how American history has been altered and twisted by political correctness, look at the treatment given to George Washington in any textbook. Then, compare that to the new Washington biography (discussed on Glenn Beck’s program on Friday), or if you prefer, Douglas S. Freeman’s definitive, multi-volume study of our first commander-in-chief. You’ll quickly discover that today’s history courses are nothing but exercises in P.C.
I’m all in favor of history being taught in our schools. But to do a proper job of it, we need a new generation of historians and scholars, who (in turn) would train the history teachers. Unfortunately, both the academy and the public schools have been consumed by political correctness and liberalism. These days, about the only young people who learn “real” American history are the home schoolers and kids fortunate enough to attend a college like Hillsdale.
“Conservatives though have NO LONG TERM PLAN TO RE-MORALIZE THE NATION.”
Nobody does, young people who have been brought up on political propaganda presented as truth have no way to know the real truth. They may awaken to the fact that they have been lied to all their lives and realize that our so called mainstream media is only a propaganda arm of the left but that won’t make them know the truth, in and of itself such an awakening will merely leave them confused and unwilling to trust anyone. I certainly don’t have the answer. I feel as if I have been transported to another world. The world I grew up in no longer exists except in memory. In a few more years it may not even exist in memory.
I wonder if I can go back to school and major in Vikingology.
“Have a BA/BS degree today is probably the equivalent of a HS diploma circa 1950.”
Oh, if only I could agree! I am convinced that on average it is actually equivalent to no more than tenth grade at best. I ENTERED public school in 1950 and have no college, only a high school diploma. I would be willing to wager that if I could sit down and take a 1950 high school final exam now I probably wouldn’t pass it but would most likely outscore almost any Ba or BS holder I know who is under forty years old. Most recent college graduates would fail miserably in English, in History, in Biology, in Civics and in Literature (these were all required subjects in my day).
Just from reading the posts here on Free Republic it is appalling to me how many conservatives believe that government schools can be reformed. UNBELIEVABLE!
I see the following:
**Government schools would be fixed if they eliminated the Department of justice, banned unions, taught phonics and the basics, stopped indoctrinating, had a sprinkle of prayer in the morning, fired all the teachers, went back to the 60s, 50s, 40s, ran for the school board, had more conservative teahers ....(pass the barf bucket)!
Another good one is “This isn't happening our child's school!” Yeah! Right! ( with eye roll)
It is amazing to me how few conservatives even recognize that government schools ***ARE** the very essence of socialism! Of course the children will learn to be socialists if they become comfortable with taking their neighbor's money to pay for a service that their parents want for FREE!
I am EXASPERATED!
If our nation's children attended private conservative schools, in 10 years our nation's college classrooms would be filled to the brim with youth who were well prepared to defend their faith and our nation's founding principles. There would be strong conservative and Christian clubs, fraternities, and sororities. Their Marxist professors would wither before their righteousness.
In 15 years righteous young adults would be taking their places in academia and all of our cultural institutions.
In 20 years the nation would be RE-moralized.
I suggest the following:
Conservatives should organize education foundations. The foundations would award grants to individual conservative teachers who would open one-room schools in their homes. (This would be a tremendous cost savings since their would be no building expenses.) The foundation would test the students, certify the teacher, and approve the curriculum.
The foundation would start community wide sports programs ( as well as the cheer leading “rah rah” that goes with that) and run community-wide music, theater, dance, and art programs
Universities and colleges across the nation have endowments in the BILLIONS. Harvard alone has an endowment of 35 BILLION! If government had never interfered with the private education market perhaps by now we would have equally endowed K-12 education. It is possible that by now no child in the U.S. would ever need to spend a dime in K-12 tuition.
If conservatives can endow colleges and universities I believe they could be persuaded to endow K-12 education.
BTTT and a hearty AMEN! Government school indoctrination is what inevitably produces sheeple who will vote in Comrade Obama.
It is like aiming a water pistol at a raging Marxist forest fire. Homeschoolers are only 2% of the nation's K-12 population. ( At very best 5%.)
“If conservatives can endow colleges and universities I believe they could be persuaded to endow K-12 education.”
I hadn’t thought about it but I am sure that we would be better off if most of the millions given to universities had been given to fund tuition at private K-12 schools. If every student who wanted to learn were given an honest high school education we could close most of the universities keeping just enough of them to handle those who really qualify for advanced education. As it is we have thousands going to universities to become credentialed so they can get a job of the sort that used to be done by high school graduates or even high school dropouts. Much of our current university system falls under the heading of high priced scam.
When my mother, who is 96, graduated from **8th** grade she knew far more than many of today's high schoolers and college grads! She did go on to graduate from high school which was very unusual for women in those days.
If we had seriously endowed private **conservative** K-12 education we would have no need for the wasted money and YEARS out of young people's lives that are now spent in college.
There was a time in our nation that it was **common** for young teens to be admitted to college. Why? Because they had been privately tutored, or attended small academies, and were fully prepared for serious college level work.
By the way, my homeschooled kids entered college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. They finished all college general courses and Calculus III by the age of 15. Two earned B.S. degrees in mathematics by the age of 18. The older of these two earned a masters in math at 20.
The oldest of my homeschoolers did is doing equally well and is working on an M.B.A. in accounting. He chose to go to school part-time while training full time in a sport. He also worked full-time for our church in Eastern Europe for several years and, as a result, is completely fluent in Russian.