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Aiyana Jones case, attorney says Video shows police fired into Detroit home
Washington Post ^ | 05/18/10 | COREY WILLIAMS and ED WHITE

Posted on 05/17/2010 10:43:31 PM PDT by OldDeckHand

DETROIT -- Police who carried out a raid on a family home that left a 7-year-old girl dead over the weekend were accompanied by a camera crew for a reality television show, and an attorney says video of the siege contradicts the police account of what happened.

Geoffrey Fieger, an attorney for the family of young Aiyana Jones, said he has seen three or four minutes of video of the raid, although he declined to say whether it was shot by the crew for the A&E series "The First 48," which has been shadowing Detroit homicide detectives for months.

Police have said officers threw a flash grenade through the first-floor window of the two-family home, and that an officer's gun discharged, killing the girl, during a struggle or after colliding with the girl's grandmother inside the home.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: aiyana; aiyanajones; copbashingonfr; dead; detroit; donutwatch; geoffreyfieger; girl; michigan; police; raid; welcometodetroit
I'm certainly no fan of Geoffrey Fieger, but this is a disturbing, and somewhat familiar story. Why the police had to make entry then - in the middle of the night - before ascertaining precisely who was in the home, is a mystery.

Flash-bangs and hot entries should be reserved for war zones - not by use of our civilian law enforcement agencies except in the most extreme circumstances.

Policing is a dangerous job. There are a lot of dangerous jobs. If it's too much danger, find another job. What shouldn't be a dangerous job - being a 7-year old girl.

1 posted on 05/17/2010 10:43:32 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand
There are a lot of dangerous jobs. If it's too much danger, find another job. What shouldn't be a dangerous job - being a 7-year old girl.

Exactly, if one is not brave enough to be a police officer, go get another job.
2 posted on 05/17/2010 10:46:26 PM PDT by JLS (Democrats: People who wont even let you enjoy an unseasonably warm winter day)
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To: OldDeckHand

That little girl is innocent. The camera footage will be interesting to see.


3 posted on 05/17/2010 10:55:45 PM PDT by allmost
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To: OldDeckHand

If this is true Detroit will be burning by the weekend.


4 posted on 05/17/2010 11:06:38 PM PDT by muddler (Obama is either incompetent or malicious, and it makes little difference which.)
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To: OldDeckHand

Actually, according to the department of Labor, neither in terms of absolute values, nor per capita, is being a police officer a dangerous job. That’s simply a myth. Now a carpenter, there’s a dangerous job.


5 posted on 05/17/2010 11:25:10 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JLS

It doesn’t require bravery these day, except in the inner cities, and then, they generally stay out of the dangerous areas. It’s far more dangerous to be a civilian in one of those cities anyway.


6 posted on 05/17/2010 11:26:13 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: OldDeckHand

If they need to arrest a bad guy, can’t they stake out the house? Is it so expensive?

Can’t they spend some time figuring out who is in there before they go in like that?

I don’t feel sorry for the bad guys, but bad guys are sometimes surrounded by innocent people, obviously.

I just don’t understand the use of this tactic except in the most unusual of circumstances.


7 posted on 05/17/2010 11:36:19 PM PDT by Persevero (If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?)
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To: Persevero
Doing those things mean they don't get their adrenaline rush
8 posted on 05/17/2010 11:40:17 PM PDT by packrat35 (Planned Parenthood - Keeping healthcare costs down, one fetus at a time)
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To: packrat35

“Doing those things mean they don’t get their adrenaline rush “

I am afraid that is how it appears, in most cases at least. I can’t support it, at least not without extreme circumstances. And I tend to think highly of police.

I don’t like that people can bust into your house in the middle of the night, yelling “Police!” and you are supposed to just take their word for it and drop, and avoid reaching for your gun or running.

How am I supposed to know, when shocked out of a sound sleep, that some group of jokers didn’t just bust in their yelling “police!” in order to get the drop on me? I have no way of knowing that.


9 posted on 05/17/2010 11:46:16 PM PDT by Persevero (If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?)
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To: muddler

If this is true, Detroit SHOULD burn by the weekend.


10 posted on 05/18/2010 1:38:18 AM PDT by brwnsuga (Black and Free!)
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To: Persevero

it’s a simple use it or lose it situation. SWAT teams cost money, and they always have to justify their existence. If they sit around the coffee pot waiting for the one or two incidents a month (or maybe even fewer) when their skills are needed, the next budget won’t have any money for their shiny toys. So they’re out serving no-knock warrants, and 7 year olds get killed. It’s basically the same thing that happened at Waco.

Bottom line: if you give law enforcement officers military equipment and training, don’t be surprised when they start acting like a military force.


11 posted on 05/18/2010 1:43:06 AM PDT by balch3
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To: balch3

It’s interesting how SWAT just kept developing and holding out the hand for more money. Every community with twenty thousand folks...has a SWAT capability. In most rural counties...the Sheriff and his deputies will claim a SWAT capability even if it’s not totally true.


12 posted on 05/18/2010 1:48:41 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: OldDeckHand

Flash-bangs and hot entries should be reserved for war zones - not by use of our civilian law enforcement agencies except in the most extreme circumstances.

Most inner city $hit Holes are war zones.
They were aware the guy was in the home and found him in there.

Agree, it shouldn’t be a dangerous job being a 7 year old but unfortunately she’s a victim of the scum that’s bringing her up and it’s a lifestyle they chose to live, they are not the victims of unfortunate circumstances.

Last but not least if the cops are lying then they need to get exactly what they deserve.


13 posted on 05/18/2010 2:28:37 AM PDT by maddog55 (OBAMA, Why stupid people shouldn't vote.)
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To: maddog55
Agree, it shouldn’t be a dangerous job being a 7 year old but unfortunately she’s a victim of the scum that’s bringing her up and it’s a lifestyle they chose to live, they are not the victims of unfortunate circumstances.

I certainly agree with you on that. They little girl did not choose those unfortunate circumstances, but the adults in her short life most certainly made exceedingly poor decisions.

14 posted on 05/18/2010 2:58:01 AM PDT by MaggieCarta (We're all Detroiters, now.)
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To: muddler

How will anyone be able to tell the difference from how the place looks now???


15 posted on 05/18/2010 3:11:49 AM PDT by Nekman (Barack Hussein Obama! Mmm, mmm, mmm! ..The Liar in Chief....and card carying communist!)
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To: Persevero

I agree with you.


16 posted on 05/18/2010 3:18:05 AM PDT by gunsequalfreedom
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To: OldDeckHand

Well - at the risk of being over general - this story has all the elements for a poor outcome - no local knowledge (it was the swat team not the local cops), over hyped weapons and tactics for cameras, the city of Detroit, idiot last minute decisions, and now Fieger.....

I just have to shake my head - this is exactly what is wrong with government running things - the only thing that could make it worse is if the TSA was somehow involved.


17 posted on 05/18/2010 3:46:05 AM PDT by Patrsup (To stubborn to change now)
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To: OldDeckHand

18 posted on 05/18/2010 4:28:26 AM PDT by Leisler
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To: OldDeckHand
Flash-bangs and hot entries should be reserved for war zones - not by use of our civilian law enforcement agencies except in the most extreme circumstances.

Even our military attempts to avoid civilian casualties at all times. If this tape shows the cop firing from the outside in it won't be good.

19 posted on 05/18/2010 4:32:04 AM PDT by txlurker
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To: OldDeckHand

“Police who carried out a raid on a family home that left a 7-year-old girl dead over the weekend were accompanied by a camera crew for a reality television show....”

Well, well, well. That should be quite interesting for all involved. Probably shook up the TV crew a good deal.

I think the cops need to find a better way to handle these situations. There seem to be quite a few too many grievous errors being made.


20 posted on 05/18/2010 5:02:57 AM PDT by jocon307 (It's the spending, stupid.)
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To: JDW11235

Why would a carpenter be in any danger? Maybe because some might have a liquid lunch and then go back to work and fall off a ladder?


21 posted on 05/18/2010 5:20:48 AM PDT by dznutz
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To: OldDeckHand
I'm certainly no fan of Geoffrey Fieger, but this is a disturbing,

Fieger was on this case faster than a fly on a fresh dump. I wonder who contacted who?

Fieger's a camera whore and he's not wasting any time getting his face on every newscast here in the Detroit area. This is all carefully planned by him and I suspect he's also trying to taint the future jury pool.........

22 posted on 05/18/2010 5:25:13 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Peanut butter was just peanut butter until I found Free Republic.........)
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To: maddog55

I guess Detroit cops forgot to put the "drop gun" in the hand of the victim.

ATF sure would have, and everyone of them would have said, "She was coming right for us!".

23 posted on 05/18/2010 5:44:48 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (FORGET the lawyers...first kill the "journalists".)
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To: OldDeckHand

I know what you mean in having mixed feelings like this. The left is going to shape reform and police via the courts and police officers and citizens are ultimately going to be put in extreme danger.

That is why I would like the police to respond to it’s own reform and ditch the Federalization and political correctness of police training in America that has transformed community and constitutional policing into an all-powerful military occupation mentality. The war against terror has become a terror for the American people as the government has lost all sense of porportion when using violent force in the name of not profiling. Discrimination in enforcement is another word for using one’s brain in a professional and honest way.

There are some situations in dealing with drug and street gangs or real terrorists that require the risk of extreme force. They need to be able to discern when it is appropriate to use extreme force and violence but political correctness demands they check their brains at the door and mistreat everyone equally - including family dogs who dare present a “danger” by barking. They used to use pepper spray; now many amoral lug heads feel fine about shooting the dog.

The Federalized American police operations and power will be changed because they are over the top in police state insanity. So either they do it honestly and professionally in order to protect themselves in discerning real danger or the Left will strip them of the ability to protect themselves in all situations. That will ultimately harm the rule of law and endanger everyone. It really pisses me off.


24 posted on 05/18/2010 6:20:01 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: DCBryan1

Excellent.. I’ll make this into a poster for my garage !


25 posted on 05/18/2010 6:43:06 AM PDT by maddog55 (OBAMA, Why stupid people shouldn't vote.)
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To: DCBryan1

Funny, in a sad way...


26 posted on 05/18/2010 6:44:22 AM PDT by LongElegantLegs ( I have nothing better to do than sit around all night watching a lunatic not turn into a werewolf.)
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To: OldDeckHand

Very well said.


27 posted on 05/18/2010 7:21:24 AM PDT by jimt
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To: Hot Tabasco
'Fieger was on this case faster than a fly on a fresh dump. I wonder who contacted who?"

Good question. I think either scenario is possible, even likely. Fieger is EXTREMELY well known in that community, so it wouldn't at all be unusual that he's the guy who gets called. OTOH, he's also a self-serving legal vampire, who probably isn't beyond contacting the family, personally.

28 posted on 05/18/2010 9:02:11 AM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand
Fieger is EXTREMELY well known in that community

I live just outside of Detroit. This past year he hosted a tv ad celebrating black history month in Detroit in which he pimped the fact that his dad "fought for civil rights" and was also an attorny for the UAW...His mother was also the first woman's organizer for the Michigan Federation of Teachers. He's also now considering running for MI governor again......

He's also now in the same category as those other lawyers who constantly run ads for their law firms on the local TV stations..........

Dumb like a fox

29 posted on 05/18/2010 10:19:51 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Peanut butter was just peanut butter until I found Free Republic.........)
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To: dznutz

Try checking statistics, you’d have to research to find out their exact injuries. However polic officers don’t make it on even the top 10 list of dangerous jobs. FYI.


30 posted on 05/18/2010 12:46:32 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: OldDeckHand

The family should have had a dog. Then the little girl would not have to have been shot. The police would have had a dog to shoot.


31 posted on 05/19/2010 1:46:41 AM PDT by arthurus ("If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, don't shoot an abortionist." -Ann C.)
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To: JDW11235

You made the claim, you should back it up.


32 posted on 05/19/2010 5:40:57 AM PDT by dznutz
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To: dznutz

Don’t need to. I’m just advising you. I don’t really care if you agree or not. Have a good one.


33 posted on 05/19/2010 12:51:17 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

I don’t agree. You have a good one too.


34 posted on 05/19/2010 4:23:22 PM PDT by dznutz
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To: dznutz; All

Now that I’m home from work, I’m in gracious mood to provide you with information to free you anyone who still claims that being a cop is a dangerous job, from that sordid state of ignorance.

Here’s a nice a simple slideshow, which accounts for both deaths and injuries, per 100,000 people. Cops takes 12th. Their statistics are from the Labor Bureau. Additionally, cops aren’t even as “in danger” of death more than a taxi drive, who have a 50% higher fatality rate.

Add to that, that when police have a tiny portion of injuries and fatalaties, things like them shooting themselves in the foot (there are videos), causing Waco style incidents—with retaliation, dying from being overweight while training, tasering themselves, etc. etc., I wouldn’t even lunge at that number. One cop here in Utah, pulled someone over, and slipped on ice while walking on the road and died, and thus there was a memorial built to him.

Cops’ don’t risk their lives for us anymore than carpenters, fishermen or truck drivers. Their status is not hallowed. Electricians die of electrocution giving us power, which I appreciate far more than “law enforcement.” That’s why freedom loving people understand the need for the 2nd Ammendment. To quote the old adage: “Cops: when seconds count, only minutes away.” Good cops have a place, but are to be no more respected than any other profession. They’re mostly just in it for a decent paying government job, and it’s not dangerous, so people should quit making that stupid statement.

The link to the slideshow:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/1500/1/?redirectURL=http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-04-08/the-20-most-dangerous-jobs/

You want to look the stats up yourself, here’s a link:
http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshcfoi1.htm

P.S. Anyone can and should save these references and more to combat that stupid “Laying their lives on the line,” crap, unless they start praising fishermen, electricians and doctors too. POLICE ARE NOT SACRED.


35 posted on 05/19/2010 5:33:37 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

And should anyone want to flame me, I have know great police (I have worked with them extensively), but most are little more than typical government employees.

There was one great one here. in my area, with whom I had association who organized several of his fellow officers to help clean a elderly woman’s yard (she had just been widowed). They got a lot of public flak because they were in uniform, having just got off work (but not on the clock). These were upstanding MEN, first, officers second. The organization that gives us these corrupt abusers will not produce GOOD Cops. IN fact the principle of giving ANYONE authority corrupts them. It takes a special person to become a cop and remain good, or even RARER/impossible, to improve in nature by becoming an officer.

See the “Stanford Expirament” circa the 1970’s. LAw enforcement is by NATURE corrupt. That’s why the ULTIMATE (highest) Law enforcement in the country is the LOCAL sheriff. The locals vote for him and know him, not some paid bureaucrat in a suit. The sooner people realize that, the better off they will be. Police are not your friend. Ask the Nazi’s, what we are quickly becoming, or just wait, and ask Obama’s “civilian defense force.”

Thanks.


36 posted on 05/19/2010 5:42:36 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235
P.S. Anyone can and should save these references and more to combat that stupid “Laying their lives on the line,” crap, unless they start praising fishermen, electricians and doctors too. POLICE ARE NOT SACRED.

I think there is a big difference between dying in an ACCIDENT on a fishing boat or a trucking wreck, and having your life taken on purpose after confronting an armed offender wanting to do harm to innocents.

Their status is not hallowed. Electricians die of electrocution giving us power, which I appreciate far more than “law enforcement.”

You know what they say about opinions.

That’s why freedom loving people understand the need for the 2nd Ammendment. To quote the old adage: “Cops: when seconds count, only minutes away.”

You are preaching to the choir on that point.

Add to that, that when police have a tiny portion of injuries and fatalaties, things like them shooting themselves in the foot (there are videos), causing Waco style incidents—with retaliation, dying from being overweight while training, tasering themselves, etc. etc., I wouldn’t even lunge at that number. One cop here in Utah, pulled someone over, and slipped on ice while walking on the road and died, and thus there was a memorial built to him.

And what is your point in trying to make police look like bafoons? You have an ax to grind I suspect, you are a bit over the top in yoursordid state of ignorance.

37 posted on 05/19/2010 6:20:21 PM PDT by dznutz
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To: JDW11235
LAw enforcement is by NATURE corrupt.

I think you can say that about human beings in general.

38 posted on 05/19/2010 6:24:03 PM PDT by dznutz
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To: JDW11235
LAw enforcement is by NATURE corrupt.

I think you can say that about human beings in general.

39 posted on 05/19/2010 6:24:23 PM PDT by dznutz
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To: dznutz
Why would a carpenter be in any danger? Maybe because some might have a liquid lunch and then go back to work and fall off a ladder?

Tell you what...you come to work with me, get 5 stories up on a rickety, swaying, scaffold operating a nailgun that shoots a 3 1/2" nail at 200 mph and tell me how that's not dangerous.

40 posted on 05/19/2010 6:31:47 PM PDT by Vigilantcitizen
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To: dznutz

True, but any position of authority exacerbates that. The unbridled and unconstitutional legal authority that police are wielding this day greatly amplifies that. There is a thread about an interaction with a Border Patrol agent, that was posted just after I wrote to you. The agent got in a tuff when the man couldn’t answer which specific store in a mall he would go to upon entry to the U.S. and long story short, they questioned him again.

The man’s wife was getting upset, and they grabbed her, and the man pulled away from the officers holding him. They threatened to charge him with “Assaulting an officer,” not for harming them, but pulling away. That is stupid, and corrupt to the core. It’s because assaulting an officer is generally a 2nd degree felony, while resisting arrest (if he were indeed to be arrested) is a lesser crime. This is pure corruption, and not the intent of the law. Pushing people around like this cannot lead to positive results.

I think people need to understand that. Thanks for your time, I won’t pester ya :)


41 posted on 05/19/2010 7:01:55 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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To: JDW11235

Pulling away from an officer would not be an assault. It should be some type of resisting or obstructing charge, if that. But where I’m from, assault is to put someone in fear of receiving a battery, and from the way you explained it, that didn’t happen. I would be pissed too if I saw my wife getting upset.
I suppose Border Patrol’s duties are different than police in general, and maybe asking which specific store someone is going to upon crossing the border, does seem odd on face value. But we weren’t there and don’t know the demeanor of the person being questioned. Was he nervous, evasive, did he do something to warrant further questioning? Need more information to make a judgment.


42 posted on 05/19/2010 7:42:48 PM PDT by dznutz
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To: Vigilantcitizen

My apologies. Not for the faint of heart I see.


43 posted on 05/19/2010 7:46:45 PM PDT by dznutz
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To: dznutz

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2517082/posts

The above is the thread. The guy (Canadian) was being stupid, as I said on the other thread, but both were wrong. The part where he’s told that he’s going to jail for pulling away is near the end. I hope to hear/see more of the story, but from what we do know, I know this situation could have and should have been averted by both parties.

The average joe, citizen or not can be a jerk too, I suppose. But when one can exert force and authority over the other, it becomes a different ballgame, at least to me.


44 posted on 05/19/2010 8:13:09 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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