Steve Jobs 'Gives A Sister A Break' On Buying An iPad With Cash

The Business Insider ^ | 5-20-2010 | Vince Veneziani

[blam]

Steve Jobs 'Gives A Sister A Break' On Buying An iPad With Cash

Vince Veneziani
May. 20, 2010, 9:04 AM

Apple has reversed no cash, credit card-only policy on the purchase of iPads, at least for one woman.

According to ABC 7, Californian resident Diane Campbell went to purchase an iPad and found out she couldn't pay cash for it. After prodding Apple for an explanation, they reversed the policy and let her pay cash after all.

Campbell says she wasn't going to sell it on the black market, which has been Apple's main concern in regard to the no cash policy. Says Campbell: "Mr. Jobs, give a sister a break," said Campbell. "I'm not going to go sell my iPad."

[snip]

(See, all rules are racist!)

[swain_forkbeard]

Refusing to take cash doesn’t sound right to me.

[highlander_UW]

On the face of US currency is the phrase...”This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private”. So under what right does apple deny the validity of US currency? Is it, in fact, even legal for Apple to refuse cash?

[SJSAMPLE]

Sounds like a smart thing, in some circumstances.

These things ain’t cheap, and they’re selling fast. Imagine having that much cash on hand. Seen any security at an Apple store lately? Then, you gotta get all that scrilla to the bank.

[SJSAMPLE]

Doesn’t say the seller MUST take cash. Only that it is suitable for such purposes.

[MarineMom613]

Most likely they want a record of who bought it. Use/sell list like crazy. I would think apple wouldn’t sell it, more to the effect of emailing you like crazy. Same with the security. Who has what, when, where etc....

[highlander_UW]

Doesn’t say the seller MUST take cash. Only that it is suitable for such purposes.

So you're saying that it isn't good for all debts public and private.

[SJSAMPLE]

Sure.
But not required.
If I choose, I can require that you pay in GOLD.
(Which sounds fairly smart right about now).

[highlander_UW]

Sure. But not required. If I choose, I can require that you pay in GOLD. (Which sounds fairly smart right about now).

That sounds more like barter than selling. Doesn't the process of "selling" something assume use of the national currency?

[driftdiver]

What this also suggests is they can track everything we buy through our credit/debit cards.

Not just Apple, but every company who sells something.

[Pecos]

I don’t believe the prohibitions against strawman sales extend to electronic devices.

[nhoward14]

No, it doesn’t. By your assertion, credit cards and debit cards cannot be accepted as they are not currency.

[PapaBear3625]

If they tie your identity (via your credit card) to the serial number of the iPad, then they can track every internet interaction you perform using that iPad.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

How about FEMA debit cards - do they take those?

[BuckeyeTexan]

I wouldn’t buy a dang thing from anyone or any company who refused cash. WTF?

[driftdiver]

“I don’t believe the prohibitions against strawman sales extend to electronic devices.”

Evidently Apple has a company policy that does extend the strawman prohibition.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

This thread really, really needs a pic of looter guy entering an apple store!

[NeoCaveman]

On the face of US currency is the phrase...”This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private”.

There is no debt, until the sales transaction takes place. So yes if you hand me a product on credit then you must allow for taking cash to extinguish that debt. In this scenario no debt had yet been created.

With that said, Mr. Jobs take this woman's cash.

[PapaBear3625]

On the face of US currency is the phrase...”This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private”. So under what right does apple deny the validity of US currency? Is it, in fact, even legal for Apple to refuse cash?

Note: "for all debts".

If you owed Apple money, they would have to accept cash in payment. But a sale is not a debt. Apple is free to refuse to do business with you if you do not meet their conditions. See the difference.

[WVKayaker]

I would think apple wouldn’t sell it, more to the effect of emailing you like crazy

I have used Macs since 1984. I have registered every one of them, and most had Applecare contracts. The most significant contact I have with Apple is the software updates, and the stock reports from my broker...

iPads are in great black-market demand, just as iphones. I sold my original physically BROKEN iPhone for $250 cash. I have a 3g now, and plan to upgrade when they get the video interface I expect pretty soon. I do not use it on ATT. I use it on wifi and Skype for calls. It saves me the $125 a month i was spending, and wifi is becoming ubiquitous.

iLife is good. Apple is smart. They make good products, and support them better than the rest even dream about... and always give added value! Others just promise hope and never really change!

[highlander_UW]

No, it doesn’t. By your assertion, credit cards and debit cards cannot be accepted as they are not currency.

That's not my assertion. Credit cards keep record of amounts of currency...it just does it electronically instead of physically. If you charge something on a credit card it's not in Quatloos, it's in dollars...which state good for all debts public and private. And I still question the legality of someone who sells something but then would refuse the currency they are pricing the item in.

The difference is mode of sale, not currency of sale.

Now I don't doubt that there are other businesses who have done the same...I'm just questioning the legality of rejecting currency.

They could just barter, and in bartering they could reject currency because it's a different mode of transaction.

[FunkyZero]

Fact is, Apple can demand payment in the form of chickens and ginseng root if they want. doesn't mean anyone has to agree and actually buy it that way.

I won't buy their stuff anymore on principle alone. The gadget frenzy is what keeps them in a position to play these sort of games in the first place.

I used to be a big fan, but to charge 400 bucks for a phone and warranty the thing for 90 days is bad business in my humble opinion.

My little personal boycott apparently isn't affecting anyone but me, but I still feel better not participating in the game. I consider apple products a complete rip-off for the most part. They don't even stand behind the product with service.

[nhoward14]

Well question no more. Here it is straight from the horse’s mouth.

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml

QUESTION:

I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn’t this illegal?

ANSWER:

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled “Legal tender,” which states: “United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.”

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

[highlander_UW]

There is no debt, until the sales transaction takes place. So yes if you hand me a product on credit then you must allow for taking cash to extinguish that debt. In this scenario no debt had yet been created.

You both offered essentially the same explanation...although it seems to hang on the definition of when a debt is incurred. If you walk into a store you don't owe a debt. If you carry product to the counter you don't own a debt. When you tell the clerk you want to purchase the product you don't owe a debt. But when they agree to sell it to you then you do owe a debt, and they don't hand you the product until you've settled your debt by paying them (unless an agreement for deferred payment is agreed upon, but that's a different thing altogether).

So it seems to me that if you walked into a store, selected an ipad, took it to the counter and indicated you wished to purchase it and they ring it up and present you with a price (a debt) I'm questioning their right to refuse US currency if they are pricing the item IN US currency (dollars).

I could be wrong on this, I'm just exploring the thought and I rather question the practice that Apple was employing.

With that said, Mr. Jobs take this woman's cash.

Yup. I'm not bashing Mr. Jobs. I'm questioning why the president of the corporation had to become involved all the way down to the point of sale over rather they would accept US currency.

[WVKayaker]

They don't even stand behind the product with service.

bull...

I sent a 4 yr old Powerbook for repair when I dropped it. They gave me a new screen and battery, though my 3 yr applecare contract was long dead. I gave NEVER had a service complaint that wasn't promptly handled. They even ship you a box for return if you have none.

Your principles are misaligned, but salvageable...

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

I’m questioning why the president of the corporation had to become involved all the way down to the point of sale over rather they would accept US currency.

---

Perhaps because it involved a “sister”? Just a wild guess on my part, though.

[highlander_UW]

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled “Legal tender,” which states: “United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.”

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

That does indeed settle the issue, and I'll stand corrected/educated on the issue.

I was just looking at it as an academic issue, so I appreciate the academic answer.

[Gasshog]

allow me too hijack this threads direction....Why did Jobs make the exception for this woman. Is she special or something?

[highlander_UW]

Perhaps because it involved a “sister”? Just a wild guess on my part, though.

Probably. Personally, I don't own a credit card. I don't like buying something I don't have money saved up for. I do have a debit card though, so I would expect they'd accept that for payment were I inclined to buy an ipad.

[nhoward14]

Look at her picture. She is black. So, yes, she is special.

[highlander_UW]

allow me too hijack this threads direction....Why did Jobs make the exception for this woman. Is she special or something?

My guess would be that he made the decision to make an exception to their corporate policy because the woman was black. So, racial preference.

[driftdiver]

Just don’t smoke around their products.

[AFreeBird]

The thing is, the lady claims not to have a credit card. Which is fine, but to be able to load apps, books or anything else on the device (even the free stuff) requires an iTunes account. And, to the best of my knowledge, you can’t set one up without a credit card.

[carton253]

Perhaps you could use the Itune gift cards to set up your account?

[SJSAMPLE]

Whose currency, then?
Are there any laws that oblige the user of only US currency in America? Not that I know of. In fact, a pizza store in Texas ran afoul of public opinion some years back by taking pesos.

[highlander_UW]

Whose currency, then? Are there any laws that oblige the user of only US currency in America? Not that I know of. In fact, a pizza store in Texas ran afoul of public opinion some years back by taking pesos.

Post 23 had the legal answer. But as to your item regarding the pizza store taking pesos...as I recall, they were doing it in addition to dollars, which, I believe is their prerogative to accept additional currencies. If memory serves, I've been in tourist areas in the US that have taken Canadian currency, although they're essentially acting as currency brokers since they employ conversion rates. and that is to make life easier for tourists. I've been in other countries where they've accepted US currency in lieu of national currency as well. but again, they're more working as currency exchange brokers.

[TNdandelion]

I think the "no cash" thing is ridiculous. If they want to keep tabs on their customers who will sell on the black market, limit how many they can purchase.

I paid cash for my laptop and no one batted an eye.

[Mr. Bird]

Campbell says she wasn't going to sell it on the black market, which has been Apple's main concern in regard to the no cash policy

Can someone enlighten me? I could pay for an iPad with a credit card and still sell it on the "black market". I could sell it on the open market (eBay). What the heck is she (and Apple) talking about? Is there some sort of "no resale" contract when you buy it?

[Richard Kimball]

The goal is to limit the number of iPad purchases to those an individual would legitimately use, at least until supply catches up with demand. That's why they have a limit of three. Yes, someone can resell it on the black market, but this prevents someone from buying a hundred of them and reselling them.

The NFL and some rock groups use the same technique for selling tickets to popular games and concerts. This is to keep scalpers from buying up all the good tickets and reselling them.

The goal is to protect the end user from being skinned by scalpers.

Anticipating responses:

Yes, I know, some of you will never purchase an Apple product because Steve Jobs is Satan and Al Gore is on the board of directors. I saw the image with the caption "Apple users: 10% of the market 100% of the crazy" the first 750,000 times it was posted.

Agree with the tactic or not, it is an attempt to keep the most product flowing to the most consumers at the best price.

[Mr. Bird]

Thanks for the explanation. It seems to me that restricting (or banning) cash sales is a fairly lame attempt though. Anyone with a serious desire to make cash on iPad resales need only open several checking accounts and use the various debit cards to make the purchases. They can’t track you by name (too many duplicates), so I assume they are tracking by account number. Is this correct?

[WVKayaker]

I smoke cigars on a regular basis. I have done so for many years, and never had a problem. I use Apple products because they work.

My sister is on her 5th pc in 4 years. I am using 4 year old Macs... and I buy many of them pre-owned from pawn shops, where idiot pc users take them when they couldn't master simplicity!

Microsoft = "we try to be like Macs, but can't quite get there..." Win 7 is closer, but no banana.

BTW, what computer does Microsoft make? They can't even get people to buy Zunes.

[driftdiver]

“where idiot pc users “

more hyperbolic insults

“Microsoft = “we try to be like Macs, but can’t quite get there...””

So they want to give up 98% of the market?

“BTW, what computer does Microsoft make? They can’t even get people to buy Zunes.”

Sure but the world buys office. The money is in the software.

[Big Giant Head]

So, you don’t have to sign up for the cell service?! Hmmmm... I need to chew on this info. Not sure how well it work out here. Skype on iPhone... (Pinging myself from dh’s account)

[driftdiver]

“I smoke cigars on a regular basis. I have done so for many years, and never had a problem. “

Its their written policy that smoking around their products will void their warranty due to the health risk to their employees.

[dangerdoc]

I’m not a big fan but I can tell you from first hand experience, they do provide good service for their equipment.

[WVKayaker]

The money is in the software.- DD

Hmmmm. presently...

MSFT market cap 239.87 b
AAPL market cap 218.39 b
Dell market cap 28.31 b

...so aapl is worth how much a share right now?

Wow, they’re DOWN to $239.90 when I just checked. That’s chump change for a MSFT owner... oops, they’re trading at under $27, and I bought my AAPL for $13.54... 2001 before the splits. How’s that MSFT working out during the same time frame?

[driftdiver]

Who had more revenue last year? hmmmmmmm

[AFreeBird]

Good question. I suppose it might be possible.

[Cyber Liberty]

I sold my original physically BROKEN iPhone for $250 cash.

If the buyer was not aware it was broken, that's fraud in most states.

[FunkyZero]

I would appreciate it greatly if you would refrain from calling me a liar.

I have 260+ iphones on our account. I assure you, the service is not there. I have a box full of them (last count was 42 of them) with bad screens (just stopped working, not broken) within a few months and if you don't PAY for extra warranty, you get 90 days.

I'm not sure how you rank a warranty, but in my humble opinion, that sucks. We don't buy them anymore as a direct result of it.

I'll refrain from calling you a liar, maybe you got lucky.