Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Goodbye, Employer-Sponsored Insurance
The Wall Street Journal ^ | 05-21-10 | JOHN C. GOODMAN

Posted on 05/20/2010 5:50:26 PM PDT by GOP_Lady

Companies are discovering that it's cheaper to pay fines to the government than to cover workers.

Millions of American workers could discover that they no longer have employer-provided health insurance as ObamaCare is phased in. That's because employers are quickly discovering that it may be cheaper to pay fines to the government than to insure workers.

AT&T, Caterpillar, John Deere and Verizon have all made internal calculations, according the House Energy and Commerce Committee, to determine how much could be saved by a) dropping their employer-provided insurance, b) paying a fine of $2,000 per employee, and c) leaving their employees with the option of buying highly-subsidized insurance in the newly created health-insurance exchange.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: benefits; bhohealthcare; fubo; health; healthcare; obamacare; socialism; socialisthealthcare; workplace; wsj
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

1 posted on 05/20/2010 5:50:26 PM PDT by GOP_Lady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 506Lake; AdvisorB; antivenom; angry elephant; Blonde; BornToBeAmerican; boxlunch; brivette; ...


To be added or removed from the
"The Wall Street Journal" Ping List,
FReepmail
GOP_Lady.

2 posted on 05/20/2010 5:50:58 PM PDT by GOP_Lady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady
The Wall Street Journal is FREE today, thanks to Sprint.
3 posted on 05/20/2010 5:51:13 PM PDT by GOP_Lady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

Kinda sucks when many of us Republicans want to “send a message” and vote Third Party...thereby allowing the Democrat to win. Oh well, there’s always the clinics.


4 posted on 05/20/2010 5:53:32 PM PDT by BobL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

In the long run, this aspect of the abominable health care reform will be a good thing. The idea of tying medical insurance to employment was a big-government scam in the first place. It ended up making it virtually impossible for anyone to get reasonably priced insurance independently, and left most people who did get insurance through an employer stuck with whatever plan the employer chose to offer.


5 posted on 05/20/2010 5:54:28 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

What is free? The paper paper?


6 posted on 05/20/2010 5:55:28 PM PDT by GeronL (Political Correctness Kills)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

Goal of this administration is working perfectly...more reliance upon the government.


7 posted on 05/20/2010 5:56:04 PM PDT by ebersole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

http://www.wsj.com


8 posted on 05/20/2010 5:57:01 PM PDT by GOP_Lady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: GovernmentShrinker

What if the Indian reservations were to start independent health care facilities? Kinda like casinos.


9 posted on 05/20/2010 5:57:22 PM PDT by american_ranger (Never ever use DirecTV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

10 posted on 05/20/2010 5:57:37 PM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady
All part of the plan.Step #1....destroy the private insurance companies...step #2.....
11 posted on 05/20/2010 5:57:50 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

May I suggest taking the time to watch the move Metropolis, possibly the remake from the 80’s. You will see how well everything works when Big Daddy runs your lives.

This experiment is all but over.

The Prick in the White Crib is in charge.


12 posted on 05/20/2010 5:58:33 PM PDT by gathersnomoss (Please God, watch over our country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady
Anyone not think that that was how it was planned in the first place?


13 posted on 05/20/2010 5:59:38 PM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GovernmentShrinker

And it was going to be very very hard for the GOP to kill employer health insurance, with the Media going against us.

Instead, we have the Dems taking the flak for this, and the GOP can then build a better system. If things go well, of course.

Employer sponsored insurance was just a metastable state.


14 posted on 05/20/2010 6:02:48 PM PDT by MetaThought
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

Company pays $2,000 for nothing. Employee pays whatever it costs for health care. The sum will be greater than being paid today by company and employee; now there’s progress.


15 posted on 05/20/2010 6:03:12 PM PDT by rjones42
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GovernmentShrinker

Breaking the employer/insurance link be the only good thing assuming this society and economy survives.


16 posted on 05/20/2010 6:03:22 PM PDT by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

Millions of American workers could discover that they no longer have employer-provided health insurance as ObamaCare is phased in. That's because employers are quickly discovering that it may be cheaper to pay fines to the government than to insure workers.

OK, trick question, How many people here don't think this was done by design?
<< crickets chirping >>
17 posted on 05/20/2010 6:06:33 PM PDT by YankeeReb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rjones42
Company pays $2,000 for nothing...

What is not being calculated is the cost of what the average salary will climb to. Look at European countries as an example. The $2000 will be to the govt, and there will be a X% added, or demanded by workers to offset the need to pay for the govt. HC. This will decrease profits and in turn hurt business. When all of the dust settles, you will find that a lot of the large employers, will continue to supply the private health insurance.

18 posted on 05/20/2010 6:11:01 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (3V3Ry71N' 084M4 D03z 83N3f17Z MU5l1mz. c01NC1d3nc3?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: american_ranger
What if the Indian reservations were to start independent health care facilities?

It's guys like you, with ideas like that, that make billions of dollars.

19 posted on 05/20/2010 6:29:29 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Sarah and the Conservatives will rock your world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: american_ranger

Very interesting. Perhaps you should look into it.


20 posted on 05/20/2010 6:34:49 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: BobL

Ok so here is a question. Is the cost this gubmint insurance going to be indexed to what one can afford based on income? Are the plans going to be the same and based on what one can pay, punish the higher earners with higher costs for the same plan?


21 posted on 05/20/2010 6:35:37 PM PDT by Bruinator (God is Great.... Beer is good.... Muzzies are.........?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: american_ranger

I’ve suggested that before. I’m sure there are various federal schemes to try to prevent it, but I don’t they’d hold up if the Indians made a stink about it. Seems to me they could make oodles of money doing something a heck of lot more socially responsible than peddling gambling and tobacco. Opt themselves totally out of all malpractice law and set up a tribal council to handle complaints. Good business practice would motivate them to dump any doctors who really screwed up, but they wouldn’t have to pass on to patients the zillions of dollars in extra costs from idiots like John Edwards trumping up phony malpractice cases against obstetricians.


22 posted on 05/20/2010 6:40:52 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: BobL
Kinda sucks when many of us Republicans want to “send a message” and vote Third Party...thereby allowing the Democrat to win

It sucks even more that the Republicans are as liberal as the Democrats....for decades unWILLING to change anything and just as big spend-thrifts when they had the power.

23 posted on 05/20/2010 6:42:55 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: BobL
Kinda sucks when many of us Republicans want to “send a message” and vote Third Party...thereby allowing the Democrat to win. Oh well, there’s always the clinics.

Kinda sucks when the Republican party wants to see run nothing more the a pack of socialists... and then cries when nobody wants 'em. (Heck, JFK was more conservative than many Republicans nowadays.)

24 posted on 05/20/2010 6:45:31 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

“That’s because employers are quickly discovering that it may be cheaper to pay fines to the government than to insure workers. “

Gee. I wonder if that was unintended? NOT!

We are SO screwed. Just SO screwed.


25 posted on 05/20/2010 6:52:29 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save the Earth. It's the only planet with Chocolate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GovernmentShrinker
set up a tribal council to handle complaints

Deal killer right there. You can get murdered, mugged and raped - and have your car stolen - at any of our many local Injun casinos, and you're shit outta luck; word flies quickly.

The tribes don't even bother responding to complaints. You're on your own when you enter their little world.

26 posted on 05/20/2010 6:55:27 PM PDT by ErnBatavia (It's not the Obama Administration....it's the "Obama Regime".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: IllumiNaughtyByNature

In tough economic times, who says that large employers have to pay anyone higher wages when there are millions of unemployed and underemployed people out there who would love to have a job?


27 posted on 05/20/2010 6:59:09 PM PDT by yawningotter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ErnBatavia

If they don’t respond to complaints about medical care, they won’t get many customers. People are pretty rational about health care shopping — going to a casino is irrational in the first place, and the Indians know full well people who want to throw their money away will just keep coming.


28 posted on 05/20/2010 7:01:01 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: american_ranger
Californians will like it ...
29 posted on 05/20/2010 7:07:49 PM PDT by Waverunner ( "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." Voltaire)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: BobL
Kinda sucks when many of us Republicans want to “send a message” and vote Third Party...thereby allowing the Democrat to win. Oh well, there’s always the clinics.

I hope that you're not seriously suggesting that Obama and the rats are in office because a few hard-core freepers voted third party. All of them could have voted for McCain and he still would have lost. He was a pathetic choice as a candidate.
30 posted on 05/20/2010 7:32:26 PM PDT by newguy357
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: newguy357

“I hope that you’re not seriously suggesting that Obama and the rats are in office because a few hard-core freepers voted third party. All of them could have voted for McCain and he still would have lost. He was a pathetic choice as a candidate.”

No, not at all. It was a handful of Senate races, like MN...that got the Dems up to what they needed to finally implement their dreams.


31 posted on 05/20/2010 7:44:37 PM PDT by BobL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

STUPIDITY has consequences....


32 posted on 05/20/2010 7:45:29 PM PDT by traumer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: american_ranger

oooooooooo....interesting idea!


33 posted on 05/20/2010 8:37:15 PM PDT by annelizly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Navy Patriot

The only problem is the government will try and find a way to squash the idea.

example. The indian reservations use their sovereignty to sell cheap cigarettes...but the government makes laws that forbids the post office and the UPS from delivering them and stop the Credit card companies from paying for them.


34 posted on 05/20/2010 8:40:40 PM PDT by annelizly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady

Bump


35 posted on 05/20/2010 8:41:16 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady; All

My whole argument against Obama’s healthcare bill is that it’s unconstitutional to force Americans to purchase anything, much less health care. A liberal shot my argument down with the claim that the Republicans thought of it or presented it first. Suspecting the usual lie, I did a search and found this site. It seems the Dems are saying that they only took the idea of government mandated insurance from the Republicans.

http://www.ksdp.org/blog/kansas-republicans-insurance-mandate-they-were-against-it

Can anyone refute this? It’s definitely news to me.


36 posted on 05/20/2010 8:46:51 PM PDT by XenaLee (The only good commie is a dead commie.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: american_ranger
What if the Indian reservations were to start independent health care facilities?

One ot the functions of the BIA is overseeing Indian Health programs. Obamacare has been on the res for a long time. In fact, though there may be some good programs out there, many would say it was the prime example of why to keep the government out of health care.

37 posted on 05/20/2010 8:52:05 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: annelizly
The government tactic to discourage Indian Nation commerce is to maneuver to require the patron to travel to the Indian Nation in order to do business.

This is the one thing that would be very necessary for almost all health care services, Viagra excepted.

So what the government's got now, won't cut it, to squash healthcare.

38 posted on 05/20/2010 8:52:37 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Sarah and the Conservatives will rock your world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady
[Art.] ....cheaper to pay fines to the government than to insure workers. Plan "A" all along. Get employers to drop the little people in the Dems' laps.
39 posted on 05/20/2010 8:52:56 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BobL
Kinda sucks when many of us Republicans want to “send a message” and vote Third Party...thereby allowing the Democrat to win.

Kinda sucks when arrogant Yacht Club ****'s want conservatives to "service" them and shut the hell up.

Bite me. And tell your bud Poppy Bush I said for him to bite me, too.

40 posted on 05/20/2010 8:55:20 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: XenaLee
A liberal shot my argument down with the claim that the Republicans thought of it or presented it first.

You should have shot the leftie down with "irrelevant to the argument".

Because it was, or when it was, proposed by a Republican, does NOT mean it is Constitutional, and Constitutionality is the argument.

It only proves Republicans are inconsistent, no surprise to a conservative.

41 posted on 05/20/2010 9:00:56 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Sarah and the Conservatives will rock your world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: MetaThought
Employer sponsored insurance was just a metastable state.

Sure -- any third-party payer system is.

But employers invented it. Useful fringe, good inducement to recruitment/retention for family men. Tax deductible to the employer, tax-free to the employee. Best thing since sliced bread. Almost.

42 posted on 05/20/2010 9:02:06 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: XenaLee
It seems the Dems are saying that they only took the idea of government mandated insurance from the Republicans.

Obama's got a fulltime lie factory working for him, researching "talking points" and then fudging them into useful roorbacks to throw in conservatives' faces.

Like the "Teddy Roosevelt wanted national health insurance" lie. He absolutely did not -- that is a political lie of the first water, kidnapping a Rushmore face to work for the lie, and Obama repeated it at least three times if he used it once. And his MSM claque parrotted it for him like a Greek chorus, too.>

Teddy Roosevelt, as a Bull Mooser not a GOP'er, proposed as an idea that a public law establish that private employers purchase, on their own responsibility, insurance policies that amount to what we call "key man" and "income continiuation" plans. Both are common in private practice already.

Furthermore, the proposal was limited to industrial companies where lost-time accidents were more common.

Obama's slugs recanned that old proposal as a political lie.

43 posted on 05/20/2010 9:13:49 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: lentulusgracchus
Postscript: The great and manly Theodore Roosevelt absolutely SPAT on scum like Barack Obama and his Marxist orcs.
44 posted on 05/20/2010 9:22:48 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: lentulusgracchus
But employers invented it. Useful fringe, good inducement to recruitment/retention for family men. Tax deductible to the employer, tax-free to the employee. Best thing since sliced bread. Almost.

All fine except for the tax-free part. That keeps people tied to their employers, and is a thumb on the scale of the free market. I imagine there would be more small companies if not for the current(or rather, soon to go away!) health-insurance system.

45 posted on 05/20/2010 9:23:26 PM PDT by MetaThought
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady
Most liberals will see this as a GOOD thing.

In their view, the evil corporations were giving health-care perks to their rich, capitalist employees. Now, the evil corporations will instead be paying fines to mother government... which means more freebies for the deserving leftist class.

46 posted on 05/20/2010 9:31:38 PM PDT by Cementjungle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MetaThought
Point taken. But it did its job as an inducement, and to a large extent, it still does.
47 posted on 05/20/2010 9:52:16 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: american_ranger
Some background:
Back in the day -— the late 70s, the Pacific Northwest Treaty tribes had the opportunity to go that route - new age medicine was very fashionable at the time and they could have made a fortune.

However, the tribal ruling families -— the ones who get the lion's share of all money coming into a treaty tribe -— decided that quick cash was the preferred route.

There were numerous Indonesian financiers lined up to front the money for their new casinos. This allowed the ruling families to conceal who where and what about their financiers — under the phony rubric of tribal national sovereignty.

It also allowed them to put paid to the various enterprising individuals who opened cig and fireworks stands, forcing them to either reopen within a casino or pay more to the tribe as “tax”.

What happens to all the money? Usually if cash, it goes into some overstuffed closet with the rest, or into some other hidden place, or on occasion into buying a bank or two.

Very little of that money ever gets outside of the ruling families — which is why the PNW reservations are in such awlful shape. It also pays the ruling families well to keep the reservations downtrodden -— they can then point to the “needy” tribal members who need more federal dollars. Which then allows them to siphon off yet more money.

Treaty tribal casinos are a racket. Opening health care centers would fit their public image, but expose their real business to too many eyes. And that will never happen.

48 posted on 05/21/2010 3:38:26 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine .. now it is your turn..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady
Let's get our terms clear regarding government health care. Obama Jr's plan is to get more Americans collecting government assistance - it is aid, NOT care. The correct word to use is Obamacaid.
49 posted on 05/21/2010 4:24:25 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lentulusgracchus

” Kinda sucks when arrogant Yacht Club ****’s want conservatives to “service” them and shut the hell up.”

Couldn’t agree more...except us conservatives, in many cases in the House and Senate, threw out the baby with the bathwater...and gave Obama the 60 votes he needed to take over health care.

So who really wins now?


50 posted on 05/21/2010 4:48:36 AM PDT by BobL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson