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Nuke the BP oil spill & environazis that get in the way, too much at stake

Posted on 05/21/2010 8:13:04 PM PDT by steve0

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To: steve0
seems like there are about 43000 miles of pipelines and roughly 3,700 oil rigs in the vicinity of the leak. I wonder how all of that would react to a nuclear explosion?


51 posted on 05/21/2010 9:51:00 PM PDT by RC one (WHAT!!!!)
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To: Smokin' Joe

seems to me, there’s room for more than one ‘straw’ in the opening of the well - so, why not keep adding more and more of those siphon pipes until the opening is filled with one big bundle of ‘straws’ leading up to the surface?


52 posted on 05/22/2010 12:01:42 AM PDT by blueplum
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To: blueplum
The more 'straws' you add, the tougher it is to seal the opening. Remember, the riser is roughly the size of a large dinner plate, and a mile down from the surface.

I guess it would be roughly the equivalent of lowering a paper clip into a shot glass from a third story window on a piece of sewing thread, using a couple of radio-controlled cars to help. Underwater currents will mess with the recovery string, much as puffs of wind would mess with the paper clip.

We initially heard numbers from 1000 to 5000 bbl/day, now they all are at the high end (better news copy, sells more soap). No one knows for certain, but a 2000 bbl/day recovery from the riser has to be making a difference. From there, the limitation is the ability to lift and process the fluid, separate the gas, and separate the oil from the water. Excessive 'suction' might collapse the riser pipe, leading to increased leakage where it would be harder to recover the oil. While a second ship might be able to take up some slack, bringing two ships close enough to try to tie in with another would not only tie up another drill ship, but risk yet another accident. Having multiple recovery strings (the oilpatch name for a long length of drill pipe 'joints' (a single, roughly 31 ft. section of drill pipe) all screwed together) would risk the recovery strings getting intertwined at depth, and inserting two different strings from separate sources would necessitate some very tricky maneuvering and coordination--and the release of more oil while that was taking place.

BP spudded the first relief well on the 4th of May, the second (backup) relief well on the 17th of May. The wells are projected to take 90 days from the spud date until they are complete, and target the original wellbore at 16000 ft. of depth.

While it takes longer, getting a drill bit in the close vicinity of the original wellbore is actually easier in some respects than the paperclip in a shotglass, but mechanical and other problems, running casing strings ('surface" and intermediate, Nippling up BOPs and such take a while, and it is pretty much guaranteed that BP and the drilling crews will be careful to not have a repeat of the incident they are seeking to remedy.

Were I BP, and expected to finish in 60 days instead of 90, I'd still say 90 days in case there was a problem in drilling the relief wells. If they said 60 days and it took 65, the press would eat them alive.

In the meantime, the riser recovery operation seems to be slowing the loss of oil to the environment.

53 posted on 05/22/2010 12:38:42 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Thanks for posting this explanation.

If I had to depend on MSM to learn anything about what is actually going on, and why, (and not & why not) with the mitigation efforts, I’d be ignorant the rest of 3 life times.

BTW, not sure if you’ve heard, but last week the town of Faith, SD (60 miles S of ND; 100 miles W of MT) was drilling a municpal deep water well, and struck oil instead, somewhere around 2,500-3,000’ down. A Denver exploration company is now contracted to do follow up.


54 posted on 05/22/2010 2:06:16 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

I hacn’t heard that they had found oil in Faith. That’s pretty neat. They are well outside the Bakken/Three forks area in the Williston Basin. Hopefully, the area will get an economic boost from that.


55 posted on 05/22/2010 6:54:26 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Ok, I now respect your dissent. By your answers to my test you have shown that you are a rational person. Hats off to you.


56 posted on 05/22/2010 8:41:31 AM PDT by steve0 (My plan B: christianexodus.org/)
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To: steve0

You want to nuke the largest natural gas deposit in the world? It stretches from Texas to New York... You think it might ignite with a nuke? Maybe you have not studied the solution you are offering.


57 posted on 05/22/2010 10:23:53 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Also does the word tsunami mean anything to you?

A tsunami requires the shifting of an active fault line. No such animal here.

58 posted on 05/22/2010 11:38:22 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: SaraJohnson

Well we don’t want to “Centralia” the thing. I am talking about scientists considering a small shaped charge. Lets not have some of the thread ravers using a straw man of nuke that would blow a hole the size of NY. No one is seriously proposing a 100 megaton nuke.


59 posted on 05/22/2010 12:42:51 PM PDT by steve0 (My plan B: christianexodus.org/)
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To: Dallas59
Just stick Obamas head in there or Michelle feet...that’ll stop it...both are big enough.

No, that's a worse pollutant than the oil.

60 posted on 05/22/2010 1:53:39 PM PDT by rdl6989 (January 20, 2013- The end of an error.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Eat your chicken, put your firecrackers away, and let the professionals handle it.>>>>>>

Eight days later we know they have failed. Top killed flunked out.


61 posted on 05/30/2010 3:45:20 PM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: dennisw
Top kill was a longshot. It was something to keep y'all from tying your panties into the gordian knot while they are drilling relief wells, the tried-and -true method of getting this well under control.

But, Hey, I don't live near the gulf, I don't eat much seafood, We have our own oil in ND, we have our own fish.

Tell you what. Don't even wait for the relief wells to kill the well. I mean, who wants to wait TWO WHOLE MONTHS? (Not like the Ixtoc, that took 10 months to control).

Go on y'all, get your little flashbang rocks off, make sure you stand on the beach when it goes off and face the device, please--and don't piss around, use at least 20MT.

Just keep your living refugees, please.

There is a lot of hype out there, and some people in the world who would just love to see the US impatiently run out and really, really F**K up the Gulf of Mexico, not just as a food source, but as an energy source, as a shipping area, the works.

Socialists and jihadis worldwide would sing songs for generations about that sort of epic stupidity.

After all one of the news outlets shilling for this idea is:

Presstv Description: Iran's television network, broadcasting in English round-the-clock. Based in Tehran.

Presstv IP: 217.218.67.228 Presstv server location: Tehran in Iran, Islamic Republic of

link to the end of the worlD!!!

as they hype it.

62 posted on 05/31/2010 12:26:15 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/big-picture-why-it-so-hard-stop-oil-gusher-and-why-was-such-extreme-deepwater-drilling-allow


63 posted on 05/31/2010 1:06:50 AM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: dennisw
However, most of the deep and ultra-deepwater Gulf of Mexico is covered by the Sigsbee salt sheet that forms a large, near-surface “moonscape” culminating at the edge of the continental slope in an 800 meter high escarpment.

That is the surface geology, fine, but the pay zone in question is some 13,000 ft. down. Plenty far from their 'moonscape salts'.

*** Salt is the dominant structural element of the ultra-deepwater Gulf of Mexico petroleum system. Large horizontal salt sheets, driven by the huge Plio-Pleistocene to Oligocene sediment dump of the Mississippi, Rio Grande and other Gulf Coast Rivers, dominate the slope to the Sigsbee escarpment. Salt movement is recorded by large, stepped, counter-regional growth faults and down-to-the-basin fault systems soling into evacuated salt surfaces. Horizontal velocities of salt movement to the south are in the several cm/year range, making this supposedly passive margin as tectonically active as most plate boundaries.

Here in the WIlliston Basin, as in the Michigan Basin, there are also large salt formations in the subsurface. They flow as well, and in this basin will crush oil well casing which is not sufficiently heavy walled to resist the pressure of that flow.

Turbidites are not salts, though, and I must presume they mean the lowest part of the turbidite bed when they speak of perms over a darcy. Later stages of a turbidite bed are generally shale or silt and could only muster a darcy of perm if they were fractured. (graded bedding).

Releasing the geological data won't make any difference in bringing the well under control. That will take a little physics, properly applied.

That's what the relief wells are for.

The problem is one of exerting enough hydrostatic pressure on the producing formation by filling the hole from the bottom up with heavy drilling fluid (which incidentally, will flow anywhere the oil does now, and exert just as much pressure no matter what the diameter of the fluid column. That is what the relief wells are for.

64 posted on 05/31/2010 1:53:53 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

How cute that you are up in ND. Really cute. People on the Gulf Coastlines are understandably more interested in a nuke or any other way of stopping the oil before if ruins all Gulf resources, marshes, beaches, fishing, tourism and employment. No one in their right mind goes up to ND for a vacation but millions do go to the Louisiana, Alabama and Florida coasts. It is called tourism and it brings in billions

You see this video I hope-—>>http://www.businessinsider.com/how-a-nuke-could-plug-the-oil-well-2010-5

What sediments and rock BP drilled through. What is down there is called “proprietary information”. You can take educated guesses I suppose


65 posted on 05/31/2010 5:44:24 AM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: dennisw
Have ANY of you nukers considered what happens to all that lovely glass plug you keep plugging when the tons of seawater rush in to fill the void and hit that hot glass?

Just one hairline fracture can have a darcy or more of permeability. You aren't talking millidarcys here, more like megadarcys.

Like I said, let the professionals do their job.

66 posted on 05/31/2010 5:53:20 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: dennisw
People on the Gulf Coastlines are understandably more interested in a nuke or any other way of stopping the oil before if ruins all Gulf resources, marshes, beaches, fishing, tourism and employment. No one in their right mind goes up to ND for a vacation but millions do go to the Louisiana, Alabama and Florida coasts. It is called tourism and it brings in billions

Will you please get off the ruin everything forever kick? Yes, it's going to make a mess. Yes, it will hurt the fishing industry, tourism (maybe--y'all got any rooms left between the cleanup guys and the journalists?), crabbing and shrimping--for a year or two. Believe it or not, I can understand that kind of economic pain.

I grew up on tidewater, far from here, and I understand the type of damage that can occur. I have held a commercial fisheries license.

I live here now because of the relatively low percentage of idiots in the general population--idiots don't handle our winters well, and the survivors move south after spring thaw.

The Russians haven't had 100% success with the nukes, have they?

Have you possibly considered what oil carrying radioactive material from your 'solution' would do to the seafood, tourist, and beach bunny industry? Not just in the Gulf, but as it made its way around the Keys and up the East Coast into the tidewater estuaries there? For decades?

As I have repeatedly pointed out, the probability of the relief wells bringing this under control is in excess of 99%. It hasn't failed because the wells aren't done yet.

Everything done so far at the riser and the wellhead has been aimed at either shutting the well in or recovering as much oil as possible before it gets anywhere near a beach, or dispersing it so the bacteria can handle it better.

In 1979, the Ixtoc 1 well blew out in the Bay of Campeche. Funny thing about the Bay of Campeche, it is the southern bight of the Gulf of Mexico. Somehow, it didn't destroy the whole world's food chain--or even the Gulf's, even after nine months of running wild.

How much damage is that nobel spinner from hell going to do to the Gulf? The Russians must be laughing their asses off at the thought of not only wrecking the ecosystem down there with a nuke, but the continued oil washing up on the beaches--with no way left to plug the well.

So put your big girl panties on and handle the fact that to get the job done is going to take a little more time, instead of letting your instantaneous gratification fetish run wild. Getting in a hurry made this mess, and getting in an all-fired hurry isn't going to fix it.

67 posted on 05/31/2010 6:24:58 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

lol
#0 Your professionals made mistakes that created the original blowout
#1 Your professionals effed up the recent repair jobs and top kills
#2 no seawater will be rushing into the hole
#3 some nuclear physicists have been consulting with the White House http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/7726142/Barack-Obama-sends-nuclear-experts-to-tackle-BPs-Gulf-of-Mexico-oil-leak.html
#4 what do you care how it turns out? You are far far away
_________________
_________________

By James Quinn in Louisana
Published: 7:57PM BST 14 May 2010

Barack Obama sends nuclear experts to tackle BP’s Gulf of Mexico oil leak

The US has sent a team of nuclear physicists to help BP plug the “catastrophic” flow of oil into the Gulf of Mexico from its leaking Deepwater Horizon well, as the Obama administration becomes frustrated with the oil giant’s inability to control the situation.

Barack Obama has sent five nuclear experts to tackle BP’s Gulf of Mexico oil leak. Mr Obama, standing with Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, center, and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, left, delivers remarks in the Rose Garden of the White House in Washington following his closed meeting with his Cabinet and other senior administration officials on the ongoing effort to stop the BP oil spill.
Barack Obama has sent five nuclear experts to tackle BP’s Gulf of Mexico oil leak. Photo: AP

The five-man team – which includes a man who helped develop the first hydrogen bomb in the 1950s – is the brainchild of Steven Chu, President Obama’s Energy Secretary.

He has charged the men with finding solutions to stop the flow of oil.


68 posted on 05/31/2010 6:28:07 AM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: dennisw
From the link you sent me: "When it finally comes to this (maybe sometime in September?) we look forward to the disclaimer on the BP announcement: this has never been tried at a depth of 5,000 feet below sea level."

Do you realize that "looking forward to the disclaimer" means these people WANT the relief wells to fail???

Think about it.

Since you reccommend an investment website for geo-engineering, how about I give you a link for investment advice: Geoscience World

69 posted on 05/31/2010 6:47:15 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Who is “these people”? They are just commentators. Some are good and maybe others are anarchistic. That is a good website....Business Insider


70 posted on 05/31/2010 6:52:06 AM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: dennisw
It may be a good website, but I won't go to my banker for solutions to Geoengineering problems, probably far less than I'd go to a fellow geologist for investment advice.

I understand people want a fast solution.

Sorry, but there isn't one.

A nuke will make a bigger mess, not solve the problem, just complicate it.

71 posted on 05/31/2010 7:01:00 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: dennisw
#0 Your professionals made mistakes that created the original blowout

Someone apparently got in a hurry--which gets more people killed in this industry than any other single cause. They won't be working on the relief wells, 'cause they're dead.

#1 Your professionals effed up the recent repair jobs and top kills

Sometimes, when something is broken, it can't be fixed. I guess you never owned an old car, or you'd know that.

The top kill was problematic from the start. It wasn't "effed up", it just did not work.

#2 no seawater will be rushing into the hole

Oh. this has been done in the Gulf of Mexico's geology, with 2200 psi of seawater above, an estimated 15000psi of producing formation below, and it isn't going to leak. Even though completely dry tests run in Nevada, in the desert, did. Right.

#3 some nuclear physicists have been consulting with the White House

This isn't just about the nuke, this is about the geology as well, geology BP hasn't released, according to one of your other links, and which I have found nuclear physicists to be particularly ignorant of, even though they may well be brilliant in their field.

#4 what do you care how it turns out? You are far far away

I may be a petroleum geologist, but despite all the envirowhacko propaganda about eeevil oil, I do not want any ecosystem to get trashed, even temporarily.

I have seen the effects of ill-considered 'solutions' on an estuary, and the one I held my commercial fishing license in was killed--and has not recovered fourty years later, by ill considered solutions to problems--and it was done by a government agency. Until then, Blue Crab were plentiful there, as were oysters, fish, and a species of clam no longer found there that made an excellent chowder.

That estuary forms one of the boundaries to land that has been in my family over 350 years. Yeah. It's personal.

So, if you would, excuse the hell out of me while I try to talk people out of clamoring for another government sponsored 'solution' with a very high probability of creating a far larger and longer lived mess than the known solutions for the sake of supposedly taking care of the problem a whole month earlier than the generally accepted method will.

You can trot out all the theoretical physicists you want, and that is every bit as appropriate as sending a team of neurosurgeons down to help you fix your car.

Their sheepskins might be impressive, but it is a misapplication of mental horsepower--and not one person who knows the nuts and bolts of the oil and gas industry in the bunch.

Look up the guys who have been known as the go-to guys in the industry for stopping a wild well, guys like Red Adair or Boots and Coots, and see how much they studied nuclear physics.

72 posted on 05/31/2010 7:41:15 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Nice post....Just to let you know I read the fruits of your labor. As a courtesy. Here is yesterday’s nuke thread at the oil drum——>>>

http://anz.theoildrum.com/node/6532


73 posted on 06/01/2010 4:04:50 PM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: dennisw

Wort case scenario is being discussed at the oil drum. If the well collapses we should still consider nukes. However, I agree someone needs to do a study first to ensure it doesn’t collapse the whole sea bed causing a complete bleed out or gush out of the entire oil deposit.


74 posted on 06/17/2010 9:16:04 AM PDT by steve0 (My plan B: christianexodus.org/)
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