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US rifles not suited to warfare in Afghan hills
US rifles not suited to warfare in Afghan hills ^ | May 21, 2010 | AP

Posted on 05/22/2010 11:58:33 AM PDT by too_cool_for_skool

KABUL, Afghanistan — The U.S. military's workhorse rifle — used in battle for the last 40 years — is proving less effective in Afghanistan against the Taliban's more primitive but longer range weapons.

As a result, the U.S. is reevaluating the performance of its standard M-4 rifle and considering a switch to weapons that fire a larger round largely discarded in the 1960s.

The M-4 is an updated version of the M-16, which was designed for close quarters combat in Vietnam. It worked well in Iraq, where much of the fighting was in cities such as Baghdad, Ramadi and Fallujah.

(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; banglist; guns; m16; m4
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To: Ken522
Photobucket
21 posted on 05/22/2010 12:26:17 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Ken522
Yeah, especially since we either gave them all away or that fat turd bill clinton ordered them destroyed.

The m14 was a based upon the Garand and George Patton said the Garand was the greatest battle rifle ever designed.

Troops in Vietnam complained, however, that the 308 round was heavier than the 5.56 and thus couldn't carry as many mags of 308 as they could mags of 5.56. Also, the 308 was more difficult to control in full auto especially when so many troops adopted the spray and pray technique.

22 posted on 05/22/2010 12:27:19 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Just tell them to get the Israeli Galil

Never heard of it... but just checked it out. Looks good. It appears they're replacing it with the Tavor TAR-21.

23 posted on 05/22/2010 12:28:52 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: too_cool_for_skool

WOW! it only took 44 years to admit that the Poodle Shooter is nothing more than a top of the line varmit plinker!

How many American lives have been lost since 1966 because of the foolish decision to abandon the .308 M-14 and go with the .223?

If you want to get your blood boiling read the history of the big money, insider influence, and cover ups of operational defects that lead to the adoption of the AR-15/M-16/M-4 Poodle Shooters.

As in everything else related to the Federal Government, if you want the truth just follow the money.


24 posted on 05/22/2010 12:29:22 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("You can't kill the beast while sucking at its teat" - - Claire Wolfe)
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To: skeeter
I’d be happy to let em try out my Socom .308...

Yep, mine served me well with an EOTech sight attached.

That was before the boating accident...

25 posted on 05/22/2010 12:29:26 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: truthguy

Ft Know s/b Ft Knox. Lousy keyboard (and typist) and lousy spell check.


26 posted on 05/22/2010 12:32:33 PM PDT by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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To: USNBandit

I’ve seen the pictures of the FN SCAR - it must be a really nice rifle. I envy your good fortune at actually firing such a fine rifle!


27 posted on 05/22/2010 12:33:35 PM PDT by Ken522
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To: LouAvul

I have a Garand and a MIA national match in my defensive armament. Also a Ruger .223 Ranch Rifle and an SKS. I’m ready no matter what.


28 posted on 05/22/2010 12:34:19 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: too_cool_for_skool

We need something in .308.


29 posted on 05/22/2010 12:35:05 PM PDT by behzinlea
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To: behzinlea

Why not something in 7.62x39, the preferred caliber of our enemies? I’ve owned one. Mild recoil and utter reliability. 308 is considered mid sized but it still packs large caliber recoil. That’s one of the reasons we got rid of it.


30 posted on 05/22/2010 12:40:28 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: Parley Baer
I've got a S&W M&P 15 PC in 5.56. The weapon next to my bed is a remington 870 tactical w/knoxx stock. In the next few months I'll be buying a M1A scout.

I had a 7.62x39 in a Ruger mini 30, but seriously, with that pencil thin barrel, after the first two shots the groups opened up enormously. I sold it.

31 posted on 05/22/2010 12:44:38 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: mountainlion
The Garand can fire more rounds per minute than the M14 and it is 30-06.

Perhaps the action is capable of more rounds per minute, but neither was issued as a full-auto, so that's not really an issue, is it? I'm real sure that I could shoot more rounds with the M-14 in one minute, because of the 20 round magazine vs. the 8 round clip. I think this advantage outweighs any other mechanical cycling advantage the Garand may have.

32 posted on 05/22/2010 12:47:09 PM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Ken522
The M-14 is still the best battle rifle the US ever made.

It's should not be fired in full-auto however...unless to clear a room from a stiff hip-mount.

The USMC used to regularly mix weapons in their rifle teams....30 Carbine, .45 Thompson and the M1 Garand were a common mix.

I see no reason why we wouldn't go about 50-50 with the M4 and M14...it's the same round used to the two machine guns currently in service....308 and .223.

33 posted on 05/22/2010 12:48:17 PM PDT by Mariner (The first Presidential candidate to call for deportation, wins.)
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To: EGPWS

Wahoo! Saw one with a regular rifle scope attached. Got to shoot it. WOW! A real “Christian” maker need in Afgan!


34 posted on 05/22/2010 12:51:53 PM PDT by TaMoDee
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To: LouAvul
The weapon next to my bed is a remington 870 tactical w/knoxx stock. In the next few months I'll be buying a M1A scout.

Like minds...

I've an 870, M1A, and an AP4 .308 panther. : )

35 posted on 05/22/2010 12:57:09 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: crazydad

The italians had a updated version with a 20 round deatachable mag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_BM59


36 posted on 05/22/2010 12:59:44 PM PDT by Charlespg
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To: LouAvul
I am an American and I am admittedly biased in favor of the .308. Properly trained, our soldiers and Marines are more than up to the task of handling the recoil of a .308.

We need to be able to push bullets with heft (e.g., 150 grain) long distances over open spaces in Afghanistan. A .308, a very accurate round, is up to the task.

37 posted on 05/22/2010 1:04:51 PM PDT by behzinlea
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To: LouAvul

The rifles now referred to as “assault rifles” came to be in the latter years of WWll, when the Germans found that the full-house infantry round, the 8x57mm Mauser, was uncontrollable in a rifle-weight shoulder-fired weapon. The devised the MP-44 “Sturmgewhre”, a rifle featuring select fire and firing a less-powerful cartrige, the 8x33mm. Mikhail Kalasnikov applied the concept to his AK-47. The definition of “assault rifle by the military is a select-fire rifle of INTERMEDIATE POWER.
The M-14 was unmanagable in full-auto fire. The old BAR was capable of select fire but tipped the scales at 20 lbs.
I have seen AR-15s used in high power rifle competitions at 600 yards but it requires an 80gr. bullet with a different rate of twist in the barrel rifling. There is a difference between punching a hole in a piece of paper and making certain that SOB 600 yards out is down for the count. The M-4 is a cut-down M-16. In making it more compact for urban warfare, a good deal of velocity was sacrifices, further reducing the effectiveness of a marginally effective round.
It is difficult to build a rifle that will do all things for all people but in the end, ya gotta have enough gun


38 posted on 05/22/2010 1:05:25 PM PDT by JayVee (Joseph)
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To: big'ol_freeper
This story seems to get dragged out once very six months

I would say that you are correct.

But it does give everyone a chance to bash the M16 (and its more modern variants) and its "poodle-shooter" 5.56x39mm round, and to discuss what would be better (bring back the M14, go to a modern rifle which fires the .243 / 6.5mm round, etc.) so it is all good...

39 posted on 05/22/2010 1:07:54 PM PDT by Screaming_Gerbil (...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one... Luke 22:36)
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To: Ken522

> Bring back the M14!
Exactly !!! In Vietnam I was issued an M14, 4 months later they took it away from my and substituted a crappy piece of junk called the M16. (Mine failed me in 2 different firefights). The M14 was a nice weapon. Accurate, long range and with lots of knock down power.


40 posted on 05/22/2010 1:14:56 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Comrade O has to go; FIRE OBAMA NOW !!!)
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