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O'Connor: Arizona must show it's not biased
yourwestvalley.com (AP) ^ | 05/27/2010

Posted on 05/27/2010 7:26:12 PM PDT by devane617

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"The law will make entering the country illegally a state crime in Arizona..."

(Excerpt) Read more at yourwestvalley.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegal; immigration; oconnor
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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This makes me scratch my head.
1 posted on 05/27/2010 7:26:12 PM PDT by devane617
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To: devane617

O’connor has public pensionitis. It afflicts all who have worked in the public sector.


2 posted on 05/27/2010 7:29:48 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: devane617
One of Reagan’s biggest mistakes.
3 posted on 05/27/2010 7:31:50 PM PDT by bwc2221
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To: devane617
O'Connor: Arizona must show it's not biased

So much for that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing... Guess when you run afoul of the "liberals" agenda you are assumed guilty.

4 posted on 05/27/2010 7:32:05 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (obama out now! I'll keep my money, my guns, and my freedom - you can keep the change.)
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To: devane617

“”The law will make entering the country illegally a state crime in Arizona...””

ooookkkkkk...and so...


5 posted on 05/27/2010 7:32:42 PM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL

So, you got it too....That is one of the funniest statements I have seen in a while.


6 posted on 05/27/2010 7:34:37 PM PDT by devane617 (VOTE THEM OUT! ALL OF THEM!)
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To: devane617

Hmmm. Let me see: Entering the country ILLEGALLY is...gasp!...a crime. I’m not a Supreme Court justice, but even I can fathom that something that is ILLEGAL is, well...a crime! And Justice O’Connor can’t make that connection????


7 posted on 05/27/2010 7:37:00 PM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

Ping!

Okay, so, what? The former Justice is exhorting the Seniors to avoid profiling? What?

~head shake~


8 posted on 05/27/2010 7:37:09 PM PDT by HiJinx (~ Illegal is a Crime, it is not a Race ~)
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To: devane617

This is an email that I just received from a friend who travels to Tuscon a lot. This information needs to go viral.

From someone who lives just north of Tucson. I urge you to watch these videos and then send them on to your friends so they can see what the Feds and media are hiding in general. We here in AZ are aware of the potential..

This is the sort of information that our government should be acting on and, apparently, is not. At the least, it seems to want to keep most elected officials and the voting public in the dark (see the end of the 2nd video where a GA Congressman states that he has never seen the reports of where illegal crossers actually come from)….(not that Congressmen aren’t known to lie…but, I will accept that this one is speaking the truth). Sec of HS, Napolitano, should be vigorously pursuing this matter given her former position as Governor of AZ. She is not which indicates to me that she has succumbed to the “inside the beltway” syndrome of liars and political Liberal hacks.

Arizona gets it. Do you?

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html


9 posted on 05/27/2010 7:39:00 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead (Clean the RAT/RINO Sewer in 2010 and 2012)
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To: devane617

“So, you got it too....That is one of the funniest statements I have seen in a while.”

Thankfully she’s off the Court...she was getting further and further left - she’s done enough damage.


10 posted on 05/27/2010 7:56:39 PM PDT by BobL
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To: devane617

For those who live outside the southwest, it’s important to put the situation here in context.

To start with, there is little or no racial animosity at all between people who are ethnically Mexican and ethnically white. There are ethnic Mexicans here whose families were US citizens when AZ got Statehood in 1912. At the same time, there are Mexican citizens who just got here illegally, and who just got here legally.

And the vast majority are somewhere in between. Most whites started arriving here from elsewhere in the 1960s, so even though they are generally citizens, they are still outsiders as well. Of sorts.

An ethnically Mexican family can have both legal and illegal members, and you can’t tell status by looking at or talking to them. There may be grandparents who speak no English, are culturally entirely Mexican, but are US citizens. In the same family are teenagers who came here as infants, know nothing of Mexico, and speak perfect English, who are technically illegals.

Legal ethnic Mexicans are very prone to enlist in the US military, and there are a lot of currently illegals who would gladly serve several honorable years in the services if they can get US citizenship.

There are also a typical number of violent criminals who need to be imprisoned, or at least immediately deported and barred from reentry, which is a serious felony if they do reenter and get caught.

There is no place for such scum, and honest people who are ethnically Mexican despise and fear them as well, as they are most often the victims of such brutes.

Ethnic Mexicans are not politically monolithic, and like other people, vote with their heads, not as a bloc. And there are a number of passionately conservative ethnic Mexicans as well. Many are strongly opposed to illegal aliens, by the way.

A hero for many Mexican-Americans was Cesar Chavez, leader of the United Farm Workers. He and his people got into some serious and bloody brawls with illegal aliens working as scab labor, and he railed against the federal government allowing so many into the US.

So the bottom line is that there are a lot of good ethnically Mexicans in the group, and they show real promise to be good citizens, if they get a legitimate chance, and a process to prove themselves.


11 posted on 05/27/2010 8:06:25 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: devane617

Does identifying oneself a liberal automatically cause a lobotomy or a hemispherectomy?


12 posted on 05/27/2010 8:07:16 PM PDT by rbosque (11 year Freeper! Combat Economist.)
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To: devane617

How about a mandamus lawsuit against Zero for failing to secure our borders?

Pathetic analysis.

Secret of the SCOTUS is that recent law grads, most in their twenties, from “elite” law schools freshly indocrinated write the opinions for the judges.


13 posted on 05/27/2010 8:09:10 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: TigerClaws
Secret of the SCOTUS is that recent law grads, most in their twenties, from “elite” law schools freshly indocrinated write the opinions for the judges.

Not really, unless, of course, you meant to refer to the clerks more as stenographers than as authors.
14 posted on 05/27/2010 8:11:21 PM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: devane617
The law will make entering the country illegally a state crime in Arizona

The only State crime the law creates against illegals is trespassing, but there are two requirements (present on public or private property and violating 8usc1304e, failure to have documentation.)

15 posted on 05/27/2010 8:15:56 PM PDT by savedbygrace (Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord)
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To: devane617

and O’connor must show that she is without political bias! - big fat chance - LOL
more to the point - I don’t believe she has standing in the matter under discussion!


16 posted on 05/27/2010 8:20:41 PM PDT by J Edgar
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To: devane617
From the article: O'Connor tells ABC's "Good Morning America" that Hispanics have lived in Arizona since long before it was a state...

To which I'd reply, "So have Europeans."

17 posted on 05/27/2010 8:33:02 PM PDT by TexasKamaAina
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To: devane617

AZVotes


18 posted on 05/27/2010 8:38:48 PM PDT by FrankR (Standing against tyranny must start somewhere, or the future belongs to the tyrants.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Anyone who entered this country illegally should be deported. This is about the rule of law not anecdotal stories about good and bad illegal Mexicans. We decide as a nation who enters this country. Citizenship is a privilege, not a right.


19 posted on 05/27/2010 8:39:22 PM PDT by kabar
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To: devane617
Let's not forget her opinion in Grutter v Bollinger. The entire thing reads like an apologia for diversity. ______________________________________

    In summary, the Equal Protection Clause does not prohibit the Law School's narrowly tailored use of race in admissions decisions to further a compelling interest in obtaining the educational benefits that flow from a diverse student body.

J. O'Connor, Opinion of the Court, Grutter v Bollinger, June 2003

20 posted on 05/27/2010 8:47:31 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: devane617
"The law will make entering the country illegally a state crime in Arizona..."

Umm, ya. Just as I'm sure it's illegal in just about every other country in the world.

21 posted on 05/27/2010 9:10:35 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Everyone needs valid ID except illegal aliens and the President - only in America)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Ethnic Mexicans are not politically monolithic, and like other people, vote with their heads, not as a bloc.

A bare assertion isn't the same thing as the naked truth. You've made a counterfactual assertion. Prove me wrong.

22 posted on 05/27/2010 9:11:59 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Ya got some Shabazz on the bottom of your shoes there, chum.)
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To: ExTexasRedhead

Thank you for the videos.


23 posted on 05/27/2010 9:13:51 PM PDT by frog in a pot (Wake up America! The Socialists are winning the long war against you and your Constitution!)
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To: devane617

See, that’s what happens to SCOTUS justices - they lose their clerks, and then they actually say what comes into their head.

Sometimes, the only thing left up there is a single exposed bulb, cobwebs, an old piece of cheese, and a spider.


24 posted on 05/27/2010 9:15:53 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: devane617

BULL.

O’Connor needs to demonstrate that the Arizonans -including those Hispanic-American ones - who SUPPORTED THIS BILL OVERWHELMINGLY - were motivated by racism.


25 posted on 05/28/2010 3:05:29 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: bwc2221

shows what happens when you pick for gender or skin color


26 posted on 05/28/2010 7:49:16 AM PDT by wardaddy (never been particularly pious but I stand with Franklin Graham...bigtime...you betcha...ya'll)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; Travis McGee; Black Agnes
that's all nice but Hispanic voting statistics don't follow.

yes I think we all agree that legal immigrants have a right to be here..who here would say otherwise and yes Mexican descendants do join the army but they deserve no special pat for that anymore than anyone else

we are only coddling these illegals because they are not “white” and the Dems and media want them here to vote Left which they will mostly and so they play the race card for them

were they “white” we would be hunting them down like rabbits and the left and media would be cheering wildly about securing borders

right now whites are being slaughtered in Rhodesia and South Africa...where is the clamour to take in these “victims” in need of a “better life”.

this is about a minority based on skin tone and culture being excuse once again...no different a pattern than how view “blacks” and excuse those amongst them who are off the reservation..."they are poor", "they are victims of discrimination"...etc

there is a worldwide effort to dismantle western civilization..or what we used to call it....and it means culturally and politically attacking what are perceived as “white” (majority) Judeo Christian cultures by those not a part of it....it is a major issue in Britain and France as we speak and the Left wants the same thing here.

and so it goes...it's happened very fast.

27 posted on 05/28/2010 8:00:24 AM PDT by wardaddy (never been particularly pious but I stand with Franklin Graham...bigtime...you betcha...ya'll)
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To: kabar

The trouble with that is that the process for becoming a US citizen is both stupid and oppressive. To start with, you must have a desired skill or money to get more than short term residency. Then you must wait 5 years for permanent residency, then another 5 years for a green card, and another 5 or more years for citizenship. All of it is quota based, with myriad exceptions and additions.

Much of the time you must travel back and forth with your home country, and can only submit paperwork there, not while you are in the US. Often you are prohibited from work in the US, while the process is ongoing.

Okay, but that is doing it the right way. The legal way. But what happens to those who come across as illegals?

To start with, they can go to work immediately. Their children, infants through teenagers, could enter US schooling, often resulting in complete integration by the time they are adults. They can buy goods with their money as well. And those that earn money in the US can send some of it back to their home country to support the rest of their family.

Golly. So if they do things the legal way, they will spend 15-20 years of their life having their chain pulled by bureaucrats. But if they cross illegally, they can immediately benefit, have children who will automatically become US citizens, work hard and make lots of money, and generally lead a good, productive life.

That is some choice. The only surprise is that *any* Mexican is willing to do it the legal way.

And it is very obvious why, according to the Border Patrol, there are some 15-20 million illegal aliens in the US right now.

From my point of view, the biggest problem is not the sheer number of aliens, but the unwillingness of the US government to, first of all, kick out the violent, criminal aliens that are a major pain in the ass.

Second to that, is to create a much more sane process by which those illegals currently in the US can achieve citizenship, while remaining in the US. This does not have to be easy or cheap, but it must be reasonable enough for reasonable people to choose to do it instead of remaining illegal.

Importantly, this must be focused *exclusively* on Mexicans, not illegals from other nations. The rules on the people of other nations should be just as strict as they are now. If they are illegal, they should be deported, and barred from reentry (which makes return a serious felony offense.)

This means that Mexicans in the US are separated as to whether they are “sheep or goats”. If they are good, they perform productive labor, are making efforts to integrate and learn English, do not form ghettos, do not engage in criminal activity, and pay all past and present taxes they owe.

If they are bad, they are expelled. For good. If they come back, they will spend a decade in a federal penitentiary, then be deported again.

Right now, before congress is the DREAM Act. It is the recognition that many illegal children are fully integrated into the US, and are de facto citizens already. Sending them “back” to a country they know nothing about is as brutal as sending any child to a strange foreign country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Act

There are some serious problems in the DREAM Act, but it at least recognizes that a “Aw, just kick them ALL out” attitude will neither work, is immensely cruel, and is not something America does, or hopefully ever will do. Andrew Jackson ethnically cleansed the northern and eastern US of Indians, pushing them west of the Mississippi. That should be the only time in our history when we did something like that.


28 posted on 05/28/2010 9:18:15 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
So it's cruel to enforce the law.........

GREAT!!!

What next....it's cruel to place people in prison?

Makes about as much sense....

29 posted on 05/28/2010 9:22:51 AM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: FredZarguna

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1024/exit-poll-analysis-hispanics

This means that McCain won only 4% of the black vote, which is close enough to be called “monolithic”, because so many voted the same way, for Obama.

Hispanics, of which the vast majority in the US are Mexican, voted with one third of their support to McCain. Thus they are not a monolithic vote.

Importantly, this was *more* Republican than their mid-term election vote in 2006:

http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/26.pdf

And previously, some 40% of Hispanic voters preferred W. Bush over Al Gore. Again, far more a monolithic vote.

So therefore, my assertion is quite factual.


30 posted on 05/28/2010 9:32:50 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: wardaddy

While Mexicans are predominantly, officially Catholic, there are some very dark undertones that few in the US are aware of, that may someday turn very, very ugly.

By far, the worst of these is the Santa Muerte cult, which has Catholic trappings, but it strongly condemned by the church, because it is purely a throwback to the Aztec religion. It now has perhaps as many as two million followers, and no bones about it, it is a death cult. And this could become very, very bad.

The last major death cult was the Thuggee in India, who randomly murdered between 50k and 2m people of all castes and classes, even the British. When the British army launched a military expedition to literally wipe them out, they had the solid backing of just about everyone. And they meant wipe out, to the last Thug.

They had to do this twice, because it regenerated itself after the first time. One of their leaders had attributed to him 931 killings.

And all the Santa Muerte cult needs is a charismatic leader, and nobody in North America would be safe. At their height, the Thuggee likely numbered no more than several thousand. It would be a hideous prospect if the Santa Muerte cult went on the warpath.


31 posted on 05/28/2010 10:01:36 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

The Thuggee cult is where we get the word “thug” from, isn’t it?


32 posted on 05/28/2010 10:03:53 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
The trouble with that is that the process for becoming a US citizen is both stupid and oppressive. To start with, you must have a desired skill or money to get more than short term residency. Then you must wait 5 years for permanent residency, then another 5 years for a green card, and another 5 or more years for citizenship. All of it is quota based, with myriad exceptions and additions.

We don't have a merit based immigration system. It is based on kinship. You don't have to have a desired skill or money if you have an American citizen or LPR relative sponsoring you or if you get married to an AMCIT. Chain migration or family reunification is the biggest driver of immigration into this country. We bring in 1.2 million a year so it is not that difficult compared to almost any other place on the planet. Do you have any idea what it takes to become a citizen in other countries? I do.Much of the time you must travel back and forth with your home country, and can only submit paperwork there, not while you are in the US. Often you are prohibited from work in the US, while the process is ongoing.

About 30% of the people who get their green cards do so by changing their status while in the US. Generally, you must and should apply in your home country to get your immigrant visa. It would make no sense for people to come here and apply. There are close to three million people abroad who are waiting their turn to come into this country based on the various immigration categories and caps. They have completed all of the paperwork.

To start with, they can go to work immediately. Their children, infants through teenagers, could enter US schooling, often resulting in complete integration by the time they are adults. They can buy goods with their money as well. And those that earn money in the US can send some of it back to their home country to support the rest of their family.

They are doing so illegally, which is why we need to enforce our laws and deport them. It is against the law to hire people who are here illegally. And it is against the law for people to work here who are not here illegally.

Golly. So if they do things the legal way, they will spend 15-20 years of their life having their chain pulled by bureaucrats. But if they cross illegally, they can immediately benefit, have children who will automatically become US citizens, work hard and make lots of money, and generally lead a good, productive life.

The 15-20 years is not the norm by a long shot. It all depends on what immigration category you fit into. We should not reward people who enter illegally. They need to be deported. It is unfair to the people who are doing it the right way. Moreover, we don't want people who violate our laws in many different ways to be rewarded with citizenship.

From my point of view, the biggest problem is not the sheer number of aliens, but the unwillingness of the US government to, first of all, kick out the violent, criminal aliens that are a major pain in the ass.

They all need to kicked out. And the numbers are a problem. We have over 400,000 anchor babies born each year who become automatically American citizens eligible for benefits such as Medicaid and food stamps.

Second to that, is to create a much more sane process by which those illegals currently in the US can achieve citizenship, while remaining in the US. This does not have to be easy or cheap, but it must be reasonable enough for reasonable people to choose to do it instead of remaining illegal.

No amnesty and no citizenship. Any legislation that legalizes the status of those who broke our laws by entering our country illegally and allows them to stay is amnesty. We must not only prevent the Democrats and some moderate Republicans from hijacking the meaning of the word amnesty, but the public must be made aware about the true impact of an amnesty. The Heritage Foundation concluded that the cost of amnesty alone would be $2.6 trillion. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens. We cannot assimilate such numbers. An amnesty would destroy the United States of America with the stroke of a pen.

Right now, before congress is the DREAM Act. It is the recognition that many illegal children are fully integrated into the US, and are de facto citizens already. Sending them “back” to a country they know nothing about is as brutal as sending any child to a strange foreign country.

The Dream Act is just another form of amnesty. It should not pass.

DREAM Act Offers Amnesty to 2.1 Million

33 posted on 05/28/2010 10:06:16 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Osage Orange

Okay, comparatively speaking, how would you feel about the problems associated with sending 1/3rd of the US black population “back” to Africa? That would be about an equivalent number of people.

Or Italian-Americans. About the same number of them in the US as there are illegal aliens.

Of course these are both ludicrous ideas, but this is the scale of the number of people we are talking about. About five times the size of the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia, and you saw what troubles that created.


34 posted on 05/28/2010 10:11:07 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
So the illegal alien that got here yesterday...last week, last month, last year, last 5 years....is just fine, in your mind to stay...because it would be cruel to send them back.

Yes, or no..will do. Nothing more.

35 posted on 05/28/2010 10:15:24 AM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: kabar

You say “kick out” with such ease. How do you propose to “kick out” some 15 million people?

In New York City alone, there are between 1-2 million illegals.

That is between 1/8th and 1/4th of the population of the city. Transported 1,700 miles to Laredo, Texas, the closest border town.


36 posted on 05/28/2010 10:31:53 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Osage Orange

Is it easy to live life unable to imagine a more complex solution than a binary one? Eat or not eat? Eat food or eat not food? That is Democrat level logic. Life doesn’t work like that. Especially when you are talking about 15 million people.


37 posted on 05/28/2010 10:35:20 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

If I were to trespass onto your property, leave my garbage in your yard, crap on your porch and help myself to your treasures, would you be so understanding with me?

If some of my friends and family were to rape and kill some of your neighbors, would you still feel as though your neighborhood was secure and continue to be such a good host to me?

If your hospitals and schools were shut down because of trespassing by my friends and relatives, would that be acceptable?

You know that I could go on all day, but I wont.

You wrote: “So the bottom line is that there are a lot of good ethnically Mexicans in the group, and they show real promise to be good citizens, if they get a legitimate chance, and a process to prove themselves.”

Well, here’s MY bottom line. This is not about Mexicans. It’s not about law abiding folks that show promise to be good citizens. This is about following the rule of law, This is about the US of A being MY country, not the country of anyone on two legs that would rather live here and somehow thinks that I owe them a living on my tax dollars.

Come in LEGALLY. Learn the language, MINE. Become part of America, love it, or get the heck out of my country. If you want to be an American, then act like it, fight for it and work for the good of it.

There are good and well intended people all over the world, but we can’t afford to adopt them all.

We need to bring this garbage to a screeching halt. Either those in power will remedy the problem.. or We the People will damn sure do it.... soon.

This was not meant to be an attack at you and I believe that your intentions are honorable.... I just don’t agree with you... at all.

Please have a nice day.

Dan


38 posted on 05/28/2010 10:38:07 AM PDT by Gator113 (OBAMA THAT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE..... IMPEACH Obama NOW..)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight.

Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arizona proving that it does. During the 2006 amnesty debate, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) commissioned a Zogby poll offering respondents not the false choice between mass deportation or amnesty (a word CIS did not use in the survey), but rather a three-way choice between mass deportation, earned legalization, and attrition — and attrition was preferred two-to-one over legalization.

Here is what we should do to reform our immigration policies:

We need a pro-immigrant, low immigration policy that contains the following elements:

 A merit based immigration system that brings in the skills and talents to keep us competitive in the global economy;

 Reduced immigration levels based on need and more closely approximating 500,000 immigrants a year recommended by the Jordan Commission;

 Elimination of extended chain migration, i.e., family reunification, limiting it to the nuclear family;

 Enforcement of existing immigration laws to reduce the current illegal alien population and limit future illegal immigration, i.e., attrition thru enforcement. Enforcement would include: (1) ending the job magnet; (2) increasing coordination at the federal level by eliminating barriers to information sharing among agencies; (3) leveraging state and local enforcement resources; (4) fully implementing the US-VISIT Program to track and deport visa overstays; and (5) make mandatory and improve such programs as E-Verify and 287 [g] authority to assist employers and law enforcement in identifying illegal aliens;

 Elimination of birthright citizenship;

 Ensure that anyone who enters this nation illegally is not rewarded by being permitted to stay and work here; i.e., no amnesty;

 Streamline the processing and adjudication of immigration cases; and

 Promote pro-immigrant measures that help newcomers assimilate and embrace the values and principles of our Founders and the Constitution.

39 posted on 05/28/2010 10:38:52 AM PDT by kabar
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Is it easy to live life unable to imagine a more complex solution than a binary one?

LOL. Yet that is what you offer as the choices we have: mass deportation or mass amnesty. If we enforce our laws, we will have self-deportation. We tried a "one-time" amnesty in 1986. It didn't work. We gave 2.7 million amnesty and now we have 12 to 20 million more illegals. When you reward illegal behavior, you get more of it. And then after this group gets amnesty, more illegals will enter expecting a third amnesty.

40 posted on 05/28/2010 10:45:27 AM PDT by kabar
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Not in the least. Pew research is heavily leftward tilted, and the Pew studies do not even attempt to identify which Hispanics are Mexicans. The number 40% for Bush is not generally believed to be correct.

There is nearly a 40% gap between Hispanics who self-identify as Democrats and Hispanics who identify as Republicans. Many of the Hispanics who identify as Republicans are Cubans who fled communism in the 1960's, and upper-class Peurto Ricans who came to the United States in the early 1960's to escape the radicalization of the Caribbean basin. Most of the rest are Hispanics who were already in the United States in the 1950's.

This is why your picture from the perspective of Arizona is skewed. AZ is the state where Hispanics are most "friendly" to Republicans. Many of them have been here a long time. It is still abysmal. The gap in typical elections there is at least 10 points, usually more. Even when they vote for "Republicans" they prefer non-Republican Republicans, like Juan McCain.

Party identification of Mexicans is almost 100% Democratic among those in the US 30 years or less. That means that illegals nationalized under Simpson-Mazzoli are an absolute lock voting block, just like Blacks. We can expect those nationalized in the next wave of Amnesty to be similarly disposed.

Nationwide, Hispanics break over 2-1 against Republicans. 33 points is monolithic whether you care to acknowledge it or not. In means in any election, no matter where, no matter when, and no matter what the issues, that Democrats can count on the votes of Hispanics to be a net positive of it least 30 points. Yes, that is monolithic; and even the slanted stats from Pew acknowledge that.

It makes no sense for Americans who believe in individual freedom and personal responsibility to welcome newcomers who vote against those ideals in those numbers. Furthermore, one of our parties needs to be a party that furthers the interests of America. Not the interests of this or that group, but of the Country. Any party that caters to Blacks, or Latinos, or Chinese, or Whites, is a party I want no part of. Republican outreach to Hispanics as Hispanics is shortsighted and immoral. It will only further Balkanize the Country, only more firmly entrench the abominable racial spoils system we already have, and create a new, expanded and more virulent generation of race hustlers. We already see evidence of this in La Raza, and any number of nationalist Mexican groups.

Either Mexicans should be coming here to be Americans NOT Hispanic-Americans, or Mexican-Americans, or we should be sending them home.

41 posted on 05/28/2010 10:52:59 AM PDT by FredZarguna (Ya got some Shabazz on the bottom of your shoes there, chum.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Okay, comparatively speaking, how would you feel about the problems associated with sending 1/3rd of the US black population “back” to Africa? That would be about an equivalent number of people.

Why would we send Blacks back to Africa? Or Italians? They're Americans. You're analogies are, in a word, idiotic.

Of course these are both ludicrous ideas, but this is the scale of the number of people we are talking about. About five times the size of the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia, and you saw what troubles that created.

They are ludicrous ideas, and they're a strawman you're creating that no one is going to debate you on, because it's nonsense. We don't need to round anybody up. Enforce the laws against employers, and the illegals will deport themselves.

Finally, you show your true class by invoking an odious comparison. Ethnic cleansing? Do you even know what this means? Who is advocating bombing or machine-gunning Mexican enclaves? Where do you come up with this stuff? This is the typical crap we get from you leftwing trolls: anybody who wants to enforce the laws of the United States is a racist who wants to murder Mexicans.

Bugger off to some other forum with your racism.

42 posted on 05/28/2010 11:03:26 AM PDT by FredZarguna (Ya got some Shabazz on the bottom of your shoes there, chum.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Can't answer...or won't.

No problem....

Thus...we can call you a pro-illegal immigration proponent. Or at least a proponent of non-enforcement of laws.

Thanks for thinking EXACTLY like many liberals.

43 posted on 05/28/2010 12:23:57 PM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: FredZarguna
Immigration, Political Realignment, and the Demise of Republican Political Prospects
44 posted on 05/28/2010 12:29:48 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Osage Orange

I will respond to others, but in past you, personally, have demonstrated that you are nothing but an offensive troll. So you don’t deserve any thoughtful response.


45 posted on 05/28/2010 3:19:12 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: kabar

These are good ideas. However they are in conflict with those on this thread who are repeatedly screaming “throw them all out”.

Granted, some of these ideas are very hard to implement, like birthright citizenship, which is why the 14th Amendment needs adjustment. But this is only practicable in context of a constitutional convention, which I advocate.

I reject any amnesty that permits in violent criminals, convicts and gang members, as well as others who use the border for nefarious purposes and do not seek citizenship. These need to be clearly distinguished from those that *might* legitimately seek citizenship, under whatever circumstances.

Adjudication of immigration cases is also bizarre right now. It often comes under the non-rules of customs regulations instead of reasoned immigration law. Twilight zone law benefits nobody, there has to be clarity.

As far as the process to achieve citizenship, it is far too reflective of international law, and needs to be more focused on US law. That is, there should be a straightforward process that if performed, will expeditiously allow a quota of foreigners to become US citizens each year. If a person makes the cut, they are in. If they do not, then they apply the next year. No jerking people around for half a lifetime.

Importantly, this should rise to the “reasonableness” standards of US citizens. That is, the process to become a citizen should be able to be easily explained to US citizens, and they should be able to say whether it is reasonable or not. “Does this sound reasonable to you?” is a powerful way of finding out if a law is good or not.


46 posted on 05/28/2010 3:35:13 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: devane617
WASHINGTON (AP) — Former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor says Arizona must figure out how to show it appreciates, respects and admires the Hispanics who live there after passing a tough new immigration law.

Why can't people just shut up when they retire? Huh?

47 posted on 05/28/2010 3:38:14 PM PDT by La Enchiladita (http://www.arizona-coffee.com/coffee-roasters-arizona)
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To: kabar

The problem with enforcing immigration law nationwide, is that illegals will go to where the law isn’t being enforced as strenuously. Just today there was an article in the Arizona Republic about illegals fleeing Arizona—and heading to New Mexico.

Though the vast majority are in California, it is the State least likely to do anything about it. And most likely to have ways to evade the system, such as a currently estimated 1m under the table jobs, both for illegals and citizens who don’t want to be part of the system.

eVerify did a lot to flush out illegals, but they just moved to other States, and eventually it was figured out that all it could do was to find out if an ID was legal, not the person using it. So it is losing steam.

And because of the drug wars south of the border, a lot of illegals are terrified of going back to Mexico, where entire northern cities are being emptied out, because they have to travel all the way to Mexico City to be out of the chaos. And any south of there also stinks. So they are motivated to stay in the US.

I suspect that the DREAM Act, as flawed as it is, will be about the only reform we will see, even with a Republican congress. It is very selective, just applies to minors, and has some pretty stiff requirements.


48 posted on 05/28/2010 3:44:21 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Granted, some of these ideas are very hard to implement, like birthright citizenship, which is why the 14th Amendment needs adjustment. But this is only practicable in context of a constitutional convention, which I advocate.

There is a difference of opinion between constittutional scholars as to whether we need another amendment to the Constitution to get rid of birthright citizenship or not. Congress could pass a law and see if it is constitutional or not. IMO a constitutional amendment would probably be required but there is no harm in Congress passing a law prohibiting it. We don't need a constitutional convention to pass an amendment. FYI: The Irish passed a Constitutional amendment ending birthright citizenship, thne last country in Europe to still reconize jus solis citizenship.

I reject any amnesty that permits in violent criminals, convicts and gang members, as well as others who use the border for nefarious purposes and do not seek citizenship. These need to be clearly distinguished from those that *might* legitimately seek citizenship, under whatever circumstances.

There are an estimated 2 million criminal illegal aliens in the US. But it should also be noted that every illegal alien has violated a number of our laws including illegal entry, identity theft, failure to pay taxes, working illegally, falsification of employment documents, etc. I don't given them a pass just because they have not committed a violent crime. They should be deported or made to self-deport. The Rule of Law and the Constitution form the very foundation of this Republic.

Adjudication of immigration cases is also bizarre right now. It often comes under the non-rules of customs regulations instead of reasoned immigration law. Twilight zone law benefits nobody, there has to be clarity.

The adjudication has become a lucrative business. Once someone gets into the country, it is very difficult to deport them. Legal proceedings can take years. There are over 500,000 absconders running around this country, i.e., they have gone through all of the legal proceedings, including appeals, and ordered deported voluntarily. They are not leaving. Obama's aunt was one of them and living in taxpayer assisted housing in Boston. She has now won another appeal and is now staying. We need to streamline the process giving judges more authority and reducing the appeal process.

As far as the process to achieve citizenship, it is far too reflective of international law, and needs to be more focused on US law. That is, there should be a straightforward process that if performed, will expeditiously allow a quota of foreigners to become US citizens each year. If a person makes the cut, they are in. If they do not, then they apply the next year. No jerking people around for half a lifetime.

That's not the way it works. We grant 1.2 million people a year permanent residency. No one is being jerked around because they must wait in line for many years, which is mainly a function of the caps on various immigration categories. It may take years for someone's second cousin to get in. In the meantime, they don't have to put there lives on hold. Immigration to the US is a privilege, not a right. There is no way we can take in everyone who wants to come here. In fact, we should be taking in far less. We are importing poverty. 53% of immigrant headed households are on welfare.

Importantly, this should rise to the “reasonableness” standards of US citizens. That is, the process to become a citizen should be able to be easily explained to US citizens, and they should be able to say whether it is reasonable or not. “Does this sound reasonable to you?” is a powerful way of finding out if a law is good or not.

The American public does need to be educated about immigration. Immigration, legal and illegal, has had and will continue to have a major and far-reaching impact across a broad spectrum of existential challenges that confront this nation, e.g., national security, the economy/global competitiveness, jobs, health care, taxes, energy independence, education, entitlement reform, law enforcement, social welfare programs, physical infrastructure, the environment, civil liberties, and a continued sense of national identity/shared sense of endeavor. Immigration is the defining issue of our time with enormous implications for the future of this nation and the preservation of our patrimony. Yet, seldom will you hear immigration mentioned by our political and intellectual elites in connection with these challenges.

49 posted on 05/28/2010 4:55:29 PM PDT by kabar
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
The problem with enforcing immigration law nationwide, is that illegals will go to where the law isn’t being enforced as strenuously. Just today there was an article in the Arizona Republic about illegals fleeing Arizona—and heading to New Mexico.

Illegals are everywhere. Almost every state has become a border state.

FYI: The number in VA is now estimated at 330,000 up from the 259,000 figure in the chart. And the numbers in the chart are very conservative based on US Census Bureau estimates. I believe the numbers are much higher.

Though the vast majority are in California, it is the State least likely to do anything about it. And most likely to have ways to evade the system, such as a currently estimated 1m under the table jobs, both for illegals and citizens who don’t want to be part of the system.

CA only has about 25% of the illegals if you believe the numbers.

eVerify did a lot to flush out illegals, but they just moved to other States, and eventually it was figured out that all it could do was to find out if an ID was legal, not the person using it. So it is losing steam.

Wrong. The use of E-Verify is growing exponentially. AZ requires it for all businesses. The federal government has made it mandatory for all federal contracts. We just passed a law in VA for E-verify for all government contracts. I had a hand in making that happen.1 in 4 New Hires Vetted by E-Verify: New Data show 274% Growth since 2007

I suspect that the DREAM Act, as flawed as it is, will be about the only reform we will see, even with a Republican congress. It is very selective, just applies to minors, and has some pretty stiff requirements.

I don't support the Dream Act. It is just a mini-amnesty.

50 posted on 05/28/2010 5:11:31 PM PDT by kabar
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