Skip to comments.State of alert throughout Israel. "Brink of war or new Intifada"
Posted on 05/31/2010 5:54:00 AM PDT by markomalley
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“A war or “new intifada” was the goal all along.”
Yes. The current state of affairs is because “yes they can” thanks to TEW (The Enemy Within=Obama).
If we weren’t perceived as being so damned weak.....it would be different.
Israel is on their own thanks to Mugabe of the West.
they found tons of weapons onboard hidden in the rice
Indeed. They might as well go ahead and get it over with.
The terriorists fell empowered now that a kenyan born u.s. “president” is protecting them and will not come to the aid of Israel!
Indeed they did. Terrorists and their supporters were killed when they attacked the boarding Israelis. This is why I was surprised when you called the ships civilian before.
I am sure Israelis have considered using the “technological” solution to disabling of the ships, but there are more pressing PR, political and practical issues they were taking into account:
1. Disabling ships and setting them adrift would not solve the PR issues, as the world media would superimpose the pictures of “helpless” ships adrift at the sea with the “hungry, helpless” Palestinian children waiting for the “medical and food aid” presumably on those ships.
2. Some “neutral” countries’ ships could - under “UN supervision” and media spotlight - try to “escort” the immobile ships to their intended destination, with IDF no longer being able to board them, redirect them and inspect the contents of “aid”. The resulting blockade and standoff would be a real PR disaster for Israel, “denying food and medicine” to Gaza children... Hamas would be shown distributing food and money to the impoverished families, just as Hezbollah was during Lebanon crisis.
3. Most importantly, the confrontation at this time, as a result of clear and planned provocation of “peaceful pro-Palestinian activists”, forces Obama administration to take sides and a clear and unambiguous stand regarding Israel vs Hamas, a-Q and their terrorist actions...
It’s a “You are either with us or against us” question shoved directly in Obama’s face, just as he is at his weakest “popularity” point, particularly with many Jews in the U.S. Also a pretty good opprtunity and reason for Netanyahu to “excuse” himself from a planned meeting with Obama. Not a bad timing...
Should Israel have been able to do as you recommend and disabled the ships, then what? Now you have six ships full of people out in the Med floating around helplessly and without food or water still outside Israeli control. Another PR nightmare as Israel is then cast as leaving these poor defenseless people adrift with no food, water, or power for their ships. All that does is make for bad press for a few days until Israel has to board the ships anyway in order to tow them to port. Nobody else would assist them and end the PR campaign of those horrible Israelis leaving people helpless and stranded at sea. And in order to place tow lined Israel would need their own people on board or the peace activists would simply cut any tow lines in order to exasperate the situation. What would you have Israel do after disabling the steering or drive screws on the ships? Leave them to float endlessly? At some point in any scenario, the Israelis would have to board the ships. Best is to get it done with at a time of their choosing and end the fiasco.
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These ships are in fact “civilian” in that they are not some nation’s capital warships. The vessel that was raided last night was a civilian liner of some sort, as opposed to being a destroyer, or a submarine, or an aircraft carrier. Look at the pictures of the vessel and see for yourself.
In addition to these ships being civilian, what I also pointed out was how ridiculous and stupid it was of some members here at FR to suggest that Israel torpedo these civilian vessels. In light of the results of the boarding raid, does anyone with half a teaspoon of common sense really think that torpedoing that ship would have brought about a better result??
The people on these ships got exactly what they wanted and then some. Their mission was to provoke a response from the Israelis, and they got it. They wanted martyrs at the hands of the Israelis and they got that too by simply bringing baseball bats to a gunfight.
There is no way for Israel to win in this situation. If they abandon the blockade, Iran, Egypt, Syria and others will immediately resume shipping arms into Gaza.
If Israel enforces the blockade Hamas and their useful infidels will attempt to provoke an incident just like this one, which they will exploit to the maximum degree possible against Israel with the help of the UN and probably the current Regime.
All I suggest is that we hear less irresponsible clucking from some of the usual suspects here (some of those same people where the first to accept and repeat the “cop killer” agitprop out of the Just-Us Department when they first arrested the Hutaree Militia too...) and pay more attention to what is really going on here along with the facts instead of dreaming up ways to make it worse than it already is.
Disabling them, then towing them to Ashdod would have been a good alternative, but at some point you're going to have to board. And if the Hamas supporters wanted this to happen, it would have happened.
BTW, I'm assuming this happened in Israeli waters. Letting them drift would likely have resulted in a "resuce" mission, perhaps by Turkish warships. In Israeli waters.
It's my understanding that's what was done, the search to be done in Ashdod, humanitarian goods then to be shipped to Gaza. The blockade has been ongoing for several years now, as has Egypt's closing of the border.
Is that confirmed?
How about Admiltary Law? The Captain of a ship is the top guy responsible for the crew and anybody else on board and the ship itself. Two Captains in the US Navy were discharged under Article 15 recently for racing their destroyers in the Pacific ocean. You just can’t do that. Those are fully loaded warships.
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How about Admiltary Law?
Not sure what you mean. Israel's actions were lawful. Do you mean applying Admiltary Law against the Captain of the blockade runner? Might be applicable, he'd probably contend he was repelling borders, presuming he took responsibility for giving such an order. That might clear him if this took place in international waters, but I doubt that's the case though I haven't seen the location specifically identified as being in Israeli waters.
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spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:45)
Letter To The President In Support Of Israel ~
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A student told his professor he was going to "Palestine" to "fight for freedom, peace and justice,"Orwellian leftist code words that mean "murder Jews."
God bless and protect Israel and all who defend her.
Get ‘em Judah.
I call upon God’s angelic armies to deflect all harm from Israel.
In Christ’s name. Amen
We know this?
Expected it yes, but it’s known now?
I agree, but since they wanted to start a war - I’d make very sure that at least a hundred of them die for each IDF soldier. This is a “distraction” Obama has been working towards for awhile. Pray for Israel!!
And just for viewing pleasure and to help boost courage:
Gun Can Shoot 1 Million Rounds A Minute
I sure wouldn’t be wanting anyone to make the trip at this time. But our friends arrived in Egypt this past Tuesday and began their hike to Israel. They will be there for about another week and a half. Keep them in your prayers.
There is a Daily Thread that prays for Israel.
It is called “Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem”.
Please let me know if you would like to be on the Daily Ping List.
Hey, put me on the Pray For Peace for Jerusalem ping list...thanks great idea...magritte
Done! And welcome!
Fervently we pray for the peace of Jerusalem. In so doing, we pray for You to overcome her enemies. Render them blind in their planning, chaotic in their offense, and helpless in their defense.
For the people of Israel, we pray for the Peace of the One True Messiah, so that Israel sings of Jesus, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!”
Thanks I pray for Israel, America and Jews , Christians every day.
Well, then you will love our little corner of FR! I will ping you in the morning!
All the more reason to use a quiet, covert disabling attack.
This happened far out at sea, a key element (they thought) in the commandos’ achieving tactical surprise.
When you must use a hammer, use a hammer. But there was no reason to hand Hamas an international PR victory on a platter, which this botched mission did.
If ever a case called for a covert operation, this was it.
Balls. The “worse case” was this ham-handed fiasco.
Disabling some of the ships would leave the others to tow and support them, but NOT continue on to Gaza.
F you, Jack. I didn't learn these tricks and a thousand more in video games.
sorry, we had bad info due to the video being in Hebrew. not confirmed
Firing what? A modified mini torpedo programmed to approach at 5 knots greater than the targets speed, to unspool line and foul the prop, or to simply drive through the prop and unbalance it?
As opposed to a totally cocked-up commando raid, on ships full of camera crews and children-shields?
And don’t tell me “it wasn’t planned to be cocked up.” Custer said the same damn thing. So did the Brits at Gallipoli. They were just GREAT operations.
Until they hit REALITY.
not confirmed, what we saw was a video from a seizure on the 16th.
First, the Vice Admiral in charge of this op was a freaking pinhead and he should be dismissed a week ago. NEVER trust a muslim making promises. We have had our own fill of that crap in Afghanistan...and so has Israel.
Disabling the ships and letting them drift would be fine and dandy if there had been no suspicion that they were carrying weapons AND terrorists into gaza.
Allowing the ships to be “rescued” with their cargoes intact, if there WERE weapons aboard, only gives them impetus to try this again with even worse results.
The whole purpose was to break the Israeli blockade for just that reason. You don’t let them keep the weapons.
It would not surprise me if there were no weapons on board so they could feign innocence, but the next “humanitarian” flotilla definitely would and you can take that to the bank.
I think the odds are 99% that these ships were 100% “clean.” Their mission was propaganda. Get towed into port, search shows nothing but flowers and doves and rainbows.
After that, perhaps following ships carry contraband, but not this time.
So the botched commando raid, with a 1% chance of success in any terms, should not have been attempted.
I am laying the botch at the feet of the commander. If this had been done correctly, there would have been no casualties. He put his troops in danger unnecessarily. HE is guilty of malfeasance here.
There was NO WAY (NONE!! ZERO!! IMPOSSIBLE!!) to fast rope onto a ship full of Palistineans and Turks while keeping the element of surprise. You have seen the film. They were lucky not to lose the helicopter.
This mission plan was doomed to be an abortion from the word go.
CUSTER had a better, more realistic plan at Big Horn.
People here remind me of folks defending Custer. “Well, if he had retained the element of surprise, etc etc blablahblah.”
CUSTER’s plan SUCKED.
THIS plan SUCKED.
I'm quite sure that the ships being searched will be found to be "squeaky clean" of arms and ordnance, because that is part of the script too.
The whole thing was a PR event from the get go. And they have won what they wanted; global condemnation of Israel.
And now we wait for our Community Organizer to "never waste a good crisis", as his good buddy Rahm likes to say.
Travis, I agree with you about that a thousand %. That is why I say this officer should be gone before another day dawns. What he did was insane. It should never have happened. To send these troops on to that ship from directly above, one by one down on a rope, with no weapons except sidearms and paint-freaking-ball guns was literally criminal and if I was HIS boss, I would charge him.
I don’t like Barak either and he should be on the receiving end of a “no confidence” and removed as well. I don’t like the left in Israel period.
I am furious at what has happened to the Israeli military, and it is happening to ours as well. Political correctness gets soldiers killed. You do not go to war to keep up appearances, make nicey nice movies of soldiers handing out candy, and make friendly “gestures” towards the enemy...until AFTER you have kicked their a$$ three ways from Sunday.
The IDF better start working on those modified mini decoy torps NOW.
Too bad they were not already available. How much better if the story today was the farcical spectacle of the ships adrift at sea, begging for a tow?
Yeah, and how good would the media headlines looks saying Israeli’s torpedoed the “peace flotilla”, just like N. Korea torpedoed S. Korea’s ship. That would make a great headline, don’t you think? Not.
“These countries argue that the NPT creates a club of nuclear haves and a larger group of nuclear have-nots by restricting the legal possession of nuclear weapons to those states that tested them before 1967, but the treaty never explains on what ethical grounds such a distinction is valid.”
The ethical grounds of survival of the world from whacko’s who might acquire nukes. The best ethical grounds there are, to increase the possibilities of staying alive.