Skip to comments.ELCA attacks Israel (help a FReeper ELCA member out)
Posted on 06/02/2010 11:18:51 PM PDT by Dengar01
Messages and Statements Statement Regarding the Israeli Military Interception of Gaza Flotilla from Presiding Bishop Mark S. Hanson
On behalf of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and The Lutheran World Federation, organizations that are deeply engaged with and committed to the Lutheran Christians and all persons living in Palestine and Israel, I express my deep sadness regarding events surrounding the flotilla seeking to deliver humanitarian goods to Gaza. We deeply regret the deaths and injuries that resulted when Israeli forces intercepted the boats. Our thoughts and prayers are with the wounded and the families of those killed or otherwise harmed during this incident. We note that this tragic incident occurred on the first day of the World Council of Churches World Week for Peace in Palestine and Israel.
This incident raises many questions that must be answered. We therefore call for a full, international, and independent investigation into this matter.
While we condemn all violence in the resolution of political disputes, this incident raises a number of questions related to the just use of force. It is not clear that, in this incident, all alternatives were explored prior to the use of military force. One tenet of the just use of force is proportionality, a principle I raised during my meeting with the chief rabbis of the State of Israel during Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli incursion into Gaza which lasted from December 2008 to January 2009. This incident provides an example of how proportionality is an ongoing concern related to Israeli military action against civilians, both Palestinians and internationals.
The attempt to deliver humanitarian materials to Gaza via the flotilla highlights the ongoing blockade of Gaza with all its consequences for the 1.5 million people living there. Israels blockade must be fully lifted, in accordance with UN Security Council Resolution 1860. While some humanitarian aid has been allowed to reach the people of Gaza, the economy, particularly the agricultural and fishing sectors, has been devastated. Basic goods including seeds and seedlings, plastic piping, irrigation supplies, fishing nets, engine spare parts, veterinary drugs and cement are restricted.
The World Health Organization has documented the serious deterioration in Gazas health system due to restrictions for patients and medical personnel attempting to travel into or out of Gaza. The welfare of the people of Gaza and the safety of Israelis will be served by opening the monitored border crossings in a secure manner for aid, trade and commerce.
This tragic event demonstrates the urgency of achieving a just peace. One role of religious leaders, including the churches, is to strengthen those voices working for peace, rather than yielding to the clamor of extremism, as we seek a just peace beneficial for all persons in the region.
We urge that this incident not interrupt the proximity talks now being conducted through the Obama administration. Instead, we expect that this incident will intensify on all sides the commitment to serious negotiations that will lead to a just resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
The Rev. Mark S. Hanson Presiding Bishop, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America President, Lutheran World Federation Bishop's Messages
For a complete listing by date of messages and statements made by Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson, visit Recent Messages.
Or select a message from the following categories:
* General Messages * Messages to Rostered Leaders * Holy Day Messages * Monthly Column in The Lutheran
For messages from the presiding bishop made prior to 2008, visit Archived Messages, 2001-2007.
Our Faithful Mission Together: As members of the ELCA, we are sent to do God's work with our hands. We are called to engage in difficult conversations that sometimes reveal our differences. Our Faithful Mission Together As members of the ELCA, we are sent to do God's work with our hands. We are called to engage in difficult conversations that sometimes reveal our differences.
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Any other ELCA FReepers have dealt with this BS???
I've been a member of this church since 03 but I think this may be the last straw. I rather not go to church than be associated with a church that hates Israel.
BUMP, this is what i was calling you about. I think it’s a big deal.
I used to belong many years ago back when it was ALC. I am now a member of LCMS(Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. LCMS is quite conservative, I think you’ll be happier there.
Good for you...run away from any church who doesn’t support Israel..Any church who belongs to the World Counsel of Churches should be avoided.
I wonder, how out of touch or new to the situation does a given organization have to be, to accept the protestations of a known group of dissemblers, as are Hamas and their allies? If you were to swallow the propaganda broadcast to the lazy of mind, you would think that Israel is engaged in an inhuman blockade of vital necessities to the innocent people of Gaza, and you would be quite wrong. Any blockade is of one against arms only, as food and medicine are being delivered and allowed through daily. Iran and now Turkei seem to have other plans for the near future, and I am sorely afraid that they mean to provoke another war. Just great. And we are stuck with the most feckless and irresolute of leaders at this juncture. Just great.
It is my opinion that arguing with those people is a waste of time.
Our family used to be ELCA but we had to flush that turd down the toilet. It’s a real shame, too. This latest stupidity is just more icing on the cake. There are plenty of far better (non-ELCA) Lutheran churches or churches of similar protestant denomination around if you do a little research.
Definitely go find another church. There are plenty of other Protestan churches, check them out in your neighborhood.
ELCA is supporting terrorists against Israel,
That is one of the most disgusting pieces of political tripe that I have ever seen come from a church that supposedly believes in the truth of the Word of God.
Just reading that makes me livid. He has eyes but he is blinded to the truth. Ears but he chooses not to hear the truth. Or worse, he lies to decieve his flock.
This supposed “bishop” makes me want to scream at him. In fact, what he has just directly said is that it is the official position of the ELCA to (potentially) enter the end times of Revelation and INTENTIONALLY BE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE FORCES ARRAYED AGAINST ISRAEL! How can he possibly reconcile that? He did not merely state that the situation was hard for the people of the region and he hopes they all find salvation and peace... no, he went entirely past that and suggested that Israel should plot its course by the decisions of atheistic leaders and its heathan enemies. ?!?!?!?!?!?!
“The welfare of the people of Gaza and the safety of Israelis will be served by opening the monitored border crossings in a secure manner for aid, trade and commerce.”
Say WHAT? The welfare of the people of Gaza will be improved if and when Israel is able to build a large enough buffer around their tiny nation of those that do not want to kill them all by rockets, bullets and bombs. That won’t happen by allowing (MUSLIM!!!) terrorists to rearm over and over.
We also know that many terrible things will happen to and around Israel in the end times. Prophecy can not be changed, but as no one knows the timing of prophecy Israel must certainly do all they can to be secure until then.
It is impossible to read this and come to any conclusion other than this man is using his position to advance something completely unrelated to the Church.
Glenn Beck Takes on Denominations Like the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
The ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson shares a common agenda with President Obama- an agenda finely honed at the Saul Alinsky church-based community organizing center, Gamaliel, in Chicago- where both men got their start on their road to power.
Please help people.
Without guns, knives, pipes, or bombs, the paleosimians don't have a prayer to get into the promised whore house, and see satanallah.
They are just trying to practice their "religion", which commands them to murder Jooos. It's allah good for them.
We often hear of Armageddon, the Anti-Christ and devastation. There is so much more in Bible prophecy! There will be a worldwide economic depression where “a piece of bread could buy a bag of gold.”
Few realize that there will be more than a global government, with the Anti-Christ as ruler. There is also a one world religion. There will be a “prophet” who lends power to the Anti-Christ.
Just as Globalism is destroying sovereignty today, the one world church is also alive and well. It’s known as the World Council of Churches and the reason that we are seeing so much destruction of morality and ethics of run away secularism in our mainstream churches today.
Shake the dust off your feet as fast as you can.
Definitely make this the last straw. Join the conservatives of the Lutheran Church. Find a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. The ElCA is too far gone to be saved from itself. Unless your pastor is serious about breaking away from the ELCA. Go activist and try to get your church to secede from the mother ship. If you can’t accomplish that, go Missouri Synod. There are these churches all over the place. You’ll be happier. And still a Lutheran.
If it weren't for the poor souls who are hopelessly partisan about their denomination or who mistakenly think their tithes and gifts stay local (and therefore don't support the beast), the ELCA would become an embarrassingly underfunded training camp for doctrinaire lefties who just happen to look more dour than the average Marxist.
RUN to the nearest exit. It is that bad.
Thirty years later of study and prayer and I have yet to find a local Church that I could attend that I felt God would approve of, and I tried. The first Chapters of Revelation deals with candle sticks being removed from certain churches. I have yet to find a candle burning in the window of any denomination here locally.
I have said it before here on FR and other web sites, you cannot call yourself a Christian and hate Israel, it's spiritually impossible. Are the Israeli es perfect when set to our human bar? No, and neither does any other people. Do they try to be? Yes. What does God say about Israel?
“Even though I have divorced Israel I will marry her again, Isreal is the apple of My eye”. That means to this very day. My advice to these hate Israel churches is to put your hand over your mouth and fear God.
ELCA Ecumenical Lutheran Council of America, it is no longer a church but a council of ecumenical beliefs and values. If you are an ordained minister in a American Baptist Church, or ELCA or PCUSA Prsbyterian Church USA, and there is a need for a minister in any of thre ecumneical churches in your local area, you can be a pastor there. Myself I am a lutheran pastor but not in ELCA or LCMS. LCMS participates in the World Federation of Churches as a prospective member. Be wary there are changes coming to the LCMS too, that will shock many in Lutheran circles. Since the 1960s LCMS has become more progressive (liberal). Look at ELCA and ALC joined in the 1980s. ALC was the conservative element of the ELCA/ALC merger and the conservative element has been pushed out. watch for the world council of churches to endorse the UN against Israel.
The BS will continue to arise in the mainstream churches until the people leave these churches entirely. MS Churches are United Methodist Church, Presbterian Church USA, American Baptist Church, Baptist General Conference, Ecumnecal Lutheran Church of America and there are others too.
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Glory to the Holy Trinity!
**ELCA Churchwide Assembly Minutes 1997 (p. 774-784) Yes271; No651
DEFEATED: To amend the recommendation of the Memorials Committee by substituting the following for paragraph five: To express to the Church Council that the spirit of this Churchwide Assembly is that the ELCA Health Plan should pay for induced abortion of pregnancy only in cases that involve pregnancy that results from the violence of rape or incest, or serious threats to the physical health of the mother, or abnormalities of the embryo or fetus that are incompatible with life.
**ELCA Churchwide Assembly Minutes 2001 (p. 360-366)
Three ELCA Synods asked the ELCA "to direct the Board of Pensions to enact regulations that would limit payment for abortions to those exceptional cases where the life of the mother is threatened, where the pregnancy resulted from rape, incest, or where the embryo or fetus has lethal abnormalities incompatible with life." But the Memorials Committee made a recommendation that was moved and seconded. It said ". . .To decline to direct the Church Council of the ELCA to undertake at this time alteration of the terms of the medical plan for church workers that is administered through the Board of Pensions." The Assembly voted on the Memorials Committee recommendation. It passed, Yes815; No125
This article -- Why We Are Leaving the ELCA -- also lays out reasons for which the ELCA is a spiritually unhealthy church.
Check out the WELS - www.wels.net
We’ve been members for about 15 years and like it very much.
I tried like 3 ELCA churchs and was completely disappointed to find a solid theme of “social justice”.
My daughters friend invited us to visit the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod church (WELS). Our first visit we knew this was our new home. Completely Bible based church, no politics, no environmental preaching and no social justice. Pure teaching of the Bible.
You would do well to check for one in your area, here is the main web site:
Your exactly right.
But you missed WELS, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. They are aligned with ELCA and ALC also.
I'm compassionate with their position, but I debate them no longer. They remain in support of apostacy, grasping at this straw and that....as if their "staying on" will somehow reverse the tide. At some point, foolishness, obstinacy and fear of change set in and I'm no longer compassionate....only very, very sorry for them.
I'm life-long Missouri Synod, thank God....but if this church is ever taken over by the social re-organizers also, I won't hang around out of misguided sentimentalism. God always points the way....and the way is found in the Word, not in the manifestos of the ELCA.
I am a former ELCA Lutheran who was received into the Orthodox Church in 2008.
The was after nine years of being associated with a Serbian Orthodox community—I demonstrated with the Serbs against clinton’s war in 1999, and a year or two later began attending Divine Liturgy once a month at the Serbian Orthodox Church. I stayed in the ELCA to fight the horrible liberal changes even though I was basically Orthodox already.
But once the ELCA adopted that horrible “liturgy” that made Father, Son, and Holy Spirit “optional”, and once my Serbian brothers and sisters set me straight that the ELCA was a lost cause, I sought reception into the Orthodox Church. I joined the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) for language reasons, but still go to the Serbian Orthodox Church once a month.
Since I became Orthodox, the ELCA adopted that “gay” resolution, and my former congregation is going from bad to worst, with “gays”, “transgendereds”, and all sorts of heresy. They suck up to the muslims, too, which I can’t stand!!!!
There are a variety of opinions about Israel in the Orthodox Church, from supporting it to being against it. However, NO Orthodox Church makes political pronouncements or “social statements”. Those are believed to be earthly things, while the Church is all about the Kingdom of God. And NO Orthodox Bishop or church body goes on a rant-fest against Israel, or fawns all over the muslims like Hanson and the Episcopalians do.
And if you are Lutheran, the Orthodox Church—founded by the Apostles—is your true home. Please try to learn about the relationship of the Lutheran and Orthodox Church, and come to Divine Liturgy (in English) at an Orthodox Church to begin learning about it.
Chicagoland is an Orthodox center—lots of good OCA and Serbian churches, among others. You should have no problems finding an English-language Orthodox Church in your area. Attend Divine Liturgy and ask lots of questions after the service at the coffee hour. “Come and see!”
I appreciate the support from all of you and sad to see all of the other horror stories from you who are ex-ELCA.
God makes it pretty clear in the Bible that those who stand with Israel are blessed and those who don't? Well we all know the answer to that.
..joined Presbyterian PCA...
..but from what I know & have seen of Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod....you should be happier there.
Our granddaugher goes to a Missouri synod private school, and we love it there.
The mainline churches are increasingly apostate...
..thus you have PCA Presbyterian birth after leaving mainline Presbyterian USA many many years ago...etc.
I exchanged emails with my pastor and he supports this bum and the anti-Israel agenda of the ELCA. Yeah, this is the last straw.
I didn't join the church because I'm Lutheran I consider myself non-denominational.
I would rather not go to a church than be associated with this garbage.
The saddest thing of all is my church has a member pop. of 5000 give or take. I won't be at church this week but I can bet you 100 bucks that they will "pray" for the "poor hamas victims".
I am gonna have to network with some Chicagoland FReepers.
Oh I tried to email the bishop to tell him off and I couldn't (it kept saying error) I want to call the guy and scream my head off.
When I emailed my pastor I used that Scripture along with the Scripture that says Israel is God's chosen people. His response? "Even God's people need to be held accountable". I want to go absolutely berserk.
This was the ultimate slap in the face for conservative church goers at this church.
I think the fact that my church posted this on its website is what made me sick to my stomach.
It's like the old adage of "be careful who you associate with", well this is that in spades.
“But you missed WELS, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. They are aligned with ELCA and ALC also.”
WELS is in no way aligned with ELCA and ALC.
“ELCA Ecumenical Lutheran Council of America”:
I think it was defined in the article - Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
Isn’t this exactly the same release as you pinged yesterday?
But you missed WELS, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. They are aligned with ELCA and ALC also.
As a WELS member, I have not found that to be the case. I am extremely happy with the WELS. If you have info that I don’t, I’d like to know about it. Can you expand on your comment?
You see, personally I could never contribute a dime to a Church with that attitude. I just couldn't support that thinking.
Yes we are suppose to tithe, but we also carry the responsibility of what that money goes for. Does it go to enable the Church to help the poor, or does it help them buy property, gas stations, etc?
I use to belong to a church that became so big, so rich, but can't find the time to baptize anyone. And if you can finally reach the person that is suppose to handle that, you find that baptisms happen in a kiddy pool in the parking lot. After a long search that was my last attempt at finding a home church.
Sorry, did not mean that.
I belong to WELS, would highly recommend.
WELS is NOT aligned with ELCA
Yeah, nice to hear that I am not the only FReeper who has had a horror story dealing with the ELCA. The sad thing is they are systematically brainwashing so many people who aren’t up to date on the news as all of us are.
I’m sorry, but you’re mistaken. WELS is in no way aligned with the ELCA. It is the most conservative of Lutheran synods. Frankly, more conservative in some ways than my LCMS. I was a member of WELS for some years, having been confirmed and my first marriage being in that Synod. The ALC no longer exists post 1988. It was then when the ALC, LCA (Lutheran Church in Amereica) and Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches merged to form the ELCA.
I had no idea that the heads of the ELCA were as left wing psychotic as they are.
I have one more event at church and then I'm outta there!
The event is getting my keyboard back :)
oh and add me to your ping list if you wouldn’t mind, i’d like to keep up to date at what these heathens are up to.
“I am gonna have to network with some Chicagoland FReepers.”
Guess what, I am a Chicagoland Freeper. What suburb do you live in? I’m in Downers Grove.
I pinged it to "cross pollinate" the discussion of both articles.
I attended the 2005 and 2007 Churchwide Assemblies. If I remember correctly, both had significant anti-Israel motions, and the majority of the voting members supported them. The ELCA has always been anti-Israel and many other things that made me think that the leadership was making policy right off of Democrat talking points. We left a couple of years ago, after being members of our church for 29 years.
Arizona Governor Jan Brewer is a member of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.
Just try attending a LCMS service to see what you think of it. While all congregations are theologically conservative, the liturgy may vary from the English version of the 500 year old mass to the “Jesus is my boyfriend, aren’t I cool” service.
I understand the Israeli army allows gays to serve. If it comes out the commandos were gay, the ELCA will have a breakdown.
Seriously, try the LCMS, you will get the the Bible, not liberal tripe.