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Critics Question Study Cited in Health Debate (FLAWED DATA USED TO JUSTIFLY OBAMACARE)
The New York Times ^ | 6/02/10 | REED ABELSON and GARDINER HARRIS

Posted on 06/04/2010 6:22:22 AM PDT by GailA

In selling the health care overhaul to Congress, the Obama administration cited a once obscure research group at Dartmouth College to claim that it could not only cut billions in wasteful health care spending but make people healthier by doing so.

Wasteful spending — perhaps $700 billion a year — “does nothing to improve patient health but subjects you and me to tests and procedures that aren’t necessary and are potentially harmful,” the president’s budget director, Peter Orszag, wrote in a blog post characteristic of the administration’s argument.

Mr. Orszag even displayed maps produced by Dartmouth researchers that appeared to show where the waste in the system could be found. Beige meant hospitals and regions that offered good, efficient care; chocolate meant bad and inefficient.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; bhohealthcare; congress; corruption; dartmouth; dartmouthcollege; democratcorruption; democrats; fraud; healthcare; junkscience; liberalfascism; obama; obamacare; pelosi; reid; scocialisthealthcare; socializedmedicine
MORE FLAWED DATA USED TO PUSH A POLITICAL AGENDA!
1 posted on 06/04/2010 6:22:22 AM PDT by GailA
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To: GailA; ExTexasRedhead; nutmeg; MsLady; backhoe

ping


2 posted on 06/04/2010 6:23:11 AM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: GailA
MORE FLAWED DATA USED TO PUSH A POLITICAL AGENDA!

Quite typical of Democrats/liberals.

3 posted on 06/04/2010 6:26:59 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: GailA
"The debate about the Dartmouth work is important because a growing number of health policy researchers are finding that overhauling the nation’s health care system will be far harder and more painful than the Dartmouth work has long suggested. Cuts, if not made carefully, could cost lives."

Epic Fail.

4 posted on 06/04/2010 6:30:00 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: GailA

And the NY Times printed this?

Maybe somebody in their staff got sick. Kicking and screaming, liberals are slowly being dragged to the realization their beloved Obama is a screwup.

Reminds me of someone I knew that once ate a bowl of soup with soda in it because they didn’t want to admit they meant to pour the sode in their glass, not their soup bowl. All the time they ate it they kept talking about how good it was but their face told different.


5 posted on 06/04/2010 6:35:09 AM PDT by I still care (I believe in the universality of freedom -George Bush, asked if he regrets going to war.)
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To: GailA; Diana in Wisconsin
chocolate meant bad and inefficient.

This is flagrant anti-chocolatism!

Ping!

6 posted on 06/04/2010 6:36:05 AM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
"Cuts, if not made carefully, could [will] cost lives."
7 posted on 06/04/2010 6:36:43 AM PDT by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: GailA

Science is like statistics: one can find a scientific study to validate anything. While science itself is sometimes corrupted, it is usually the use of a study that skews the scientific argument toward one side or another.

Years ago I used to practically shout at “America’s Most Trusted Man” Watler Cronkite when he would give his inane signoff “And that’s the way it is this . . . “. The reason I hated it was because the news broadcast was no more a reflection of reality than any other individual’s perception. The problem wasn’t that the news wasn’t objective. It can’t be objective; it’s always a matter of the perception by the reporter of the news. The problem was the news industry claimed to be objective when it clearly wasn’t.

We now need to learn this lesson about science. Science can be just as manipulated as the news and it is up to the public to treat science as a matter of Caveat Emptor like we treat advertisements.


8 posted on 06/04/2010 6:38:39 AM PDT by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: GailA
MORE FLAWED DATA USED TO PUSH A POLITICAL AGENDA!

obama giving direction to his subordinates: "Fire, aim, ready...."

9 posted on 06/04/2010 6:43:19 AM PDT by Real Cynic No More (The mighty zero, obama,does not warrant the respect necessary for his name to be capitalized.)
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To: GailA

Noooo??? Say honest??!!


10 posted on 06/04/2010 6:44:10 AM PDT by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think." Adolph Hitler)
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To: GailA
MORE FLAWED DATA USED TO PUSH A POLITICAL AGENDA!

<>P>

Alinsky plus Cloward-Pivin. A true double header.

11 posted on 06/04/2010 6:46:03 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannolis. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: I still care

“And the NY Times printed this?...”

My thoughts exactly! Something must be going on; the rats are beginning to desert the ship.


12 posted on 06/04/2010 6:56:03 AM PDT by Joann37
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To: GailA
chocolate meant bad and inefficient

What a horrible slap at Nagin's fine city...

13 posted on 06/04/2010 6:57:14 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: I still care
But if that system penalizes big city hospitals like those at the Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center and NYU Langone Medical Center ; which look profligate by Dartmouth's measure but may rank much higher by other quality indicators — a battle over the validity of the Dartmouth work is almost certain in Congress.

A little parochialism.

14 posted on 06/04/2010 7:00:29 AM PDT by kabar
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To: GailA

Peter Orszag lies like a rug.


15 posted on 06/04/2010 7:28:08 AM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: caseinpoint

Yes, the global warming garbage is a good lesson on believing science.

I once had the head of the TN Parole Board tell me he could make the repeat offender rate what ever he needed to by controlling WHO he released. They know who will be coming back and how soon, they release them any way.


16 posted on 06/04/2010 9:52:41 AM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: GailA

Another source of wisdom on the reliability of science is the deluge of “scientific” studies about health and nutrition. You can find studies that prove everything causes and cures cancer, everything causes and cures obesity, just to name two conditions.


17 posted on 06/04/2010 10:01:36 AM PDT by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: GailA
It would've been nice if the NYT looked into this before Obamacare was shoved down our throats.
18 posted on 06/04/2010 11:44:23 AM PDT by Qbert
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To: Flycatcher
chocolate meant bad and inefficient.

This is flagrant anti-chocolatism!

Hell, I'd say it is outright racism! The chart makes the insinuation that people of color are bad and inefficient workers. Obama should be ashamed of using this racist data to push his agenda.

19 posted on 06/04/2010 11:51:57 AM PDT by Upstate NY Guy (Gen 15:16 The iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete.)
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To: GailA
Very hard to believe I am reading this from the NYSlimes, the printer of National Security Classified Information. Has the worm begun its turn?
20 posted on 06/04/2010 12:06:54 PM PDT by Cheerio (Barack Hussein 0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Qbert

Agreed!

I also want to know If Paul McCartney is a communist as this
would be the only political status that would currently support Obama.


21 posted on 06/04/2010 12:47:13 PM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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To: GailA

So what? Does it matter anymore? The RAT bastard socialist demoRATs along with the usurper-in-crap 0b0z0 already passed their deathcare bill. The likelihood of any of this being repealed, along with the ill fated Porkulus bill, or any of buruck 0b0z0’s other socialist agenda or programs is zero to zilch.


22 posted on 06/04/2010 1:01:24 PM PDT by rcrngroup
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To: GailA
The debate about the Dartmouth work is important because a growing number of health policy researchers are finding that overhauling the nation’s health care system will be far harder and more painful than the Dartmouth work has long suggested. Cuts, if not made carefully, could cost lives.

And they were using the supposition that cheaper care is better care????

It may not be that these people are so evil as they are utterly and hopelessly ignorant, the results of their actions being a terrible evil.

Conservatives were working under the impression that liberals could actually form and understand an argument. I'm not so sure about that now.

23 posted on 06/04/2010 1:28:54 PM PDT by TheThinker (Communists: taking over the world one kooky doomsday scenerio at a time.)
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To: Qbert
..."It would've been nice if the NYT looked into this before Obamacare was shoved down our throats."...

AMEN!! If I could say that louder, I would!!

Repeal or judicial over-rule on Constitutional grounds is our only hope. I still can't believe that legislation got rammed through, "law of the land".

Far as I'm concerned, in November I'll vote for anyone of any party who a) vows to work on rescinding ObamaCare, and b) has a snowball's chance of winning the election (alas, you have to be a judge or be in Congress before you can effect any changes on this)

24 posted on 06/04/2010 1:41:59 PM PDT by 88keys (they will pry my salt shaker from my cold dead hands)
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To: TheThinker

I don’t believe they think in a logical fashion, they just spew dogma.

Cheaper is not always better. Just look at the cheap chinese crap on the market that they are charging an arm and a leg for just because it has some designer’s name on it. Looks like my first attempts at sewing, which I started doing at 12, and still doing 5 decades later only as quilting instead of garments.


25 posted on 06/04/2010 3:03:07 PM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: Don Corleone

BINGO!


26 posted on 06/04/2010 3:03:43 PM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: caseinpoint

So very true, depends on what company wants to prove what.

That crap drug Lyrica they are pushing for Fibromyalgia is a fine example. 50% can’t take the crap..I’m one of the 50%, and they sure didn’t tell me all the side effects, just a few of them. Good thing I research every new drug I’m given in advance.


27 posted on 06/04/2010 3:06:48 PM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: Cheerio

Even the Washington Compost had a report on obamacare screwing Seniors before it was passed. They like to bury it in the Saturday edition, thinking most don’t read that edition.


28 posted on 06/04/2010 3:08:20 PM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: GailA

This is only a surprise if you somehow believe that 0bamaCare was designed to actually solve a problem.

0bamaCare was designed to cause a problem, which of course will be remedied by more of the same until we are all equally broke and miserable.


29 posted on 06/04/2010 5:22:36 PM PDT by Boucheau
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To: GailA
FLAWED DATA USED TO JUSTIFLY OBAMACARE

Don't worry, it's just a fly.


30 posted on 06/04/2010 7:10:28 PM PDT by LayoutGuru2 (0BAMAC0RN)
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To: GailA

Very sorry to hear that. Chronic pain is an exhausting ordeal.


31 posted on 06/04/2010 9:19:52 PM PDT by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: GailA
I don’t believe they think in a logical fashion, they just spew dogma.

True, they are like zombies at times and react emotionally without thinking first. Funny, humanity doesn't seem to be making any progress, just regressing to more barbaric times.

32 posted on 06/05/2010 12:14:19 AM PDT by TheThinker (Communists: taking over the world one kooky doomsday scenerio at a time.)
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To: TheThinker

“The debate about the Dartmouth work is important because...”

Because anyone who believes, like the delusional academics in this administration, that ‘outcomes analysis’ like this study is hard science ready for prime time is laughably uniformed and/or naive.


33 posted on 06/05/2010 3:43:03 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: TheThinker

They who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it as they saying goes.

There have always been sheeple, to lazy or stupid to think for themselves. Our Founding Fathers would be having a big hissy fit over what is going on now. I know they are rolling over in their graves. We have a republic only as long as we can hold on to it.

Stopping the importation of third world mentalities would help.


34 posted on 06/05/2010 6:18:15 AM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: caseinpoint
Sure is. But having the medicine be worse than the illness is even more of an ordeal. My Internist is a pain management specialist (he was very disappointed with Lyrica as a drug it didn't live up to the makers hype) and we have found a way to lower the pain level to where it is at a tolerable level by using 5 mg of Valium and 8 hr Tylenol for sleep, or if the pain level rises to high during the day with no side effects. At that level it is not addictive. Some times older drugs are the better and cheaper choice. But every one seems convinced that newer drugs and more expensive ones are the answer.
35 posted on 06/05/2010 6:25:48 AM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: Boucheau

BINGO! With seniors and the disabled taking the brunt of the first wave.


36 posted on 06/05/2010 6:26:50 AM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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