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A Michigan House committee to hear legislation to eliminate the pistol 'purchase permit'
Detroit Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 7 June, 2010 | Rob Reed

Posted on 06/08/2010 4:53:22 AM PDT by marktwain

A Michigan House of Representatives committee will hold hearings tomorrow on legislation to further streamline the Michigan handgun registration system by eliminating the requirement for non-CPL holders to first obtain a "permit-to-purchase" before buying a handgun.

The Michigan House Tourism, Outdoor Recreation, and Natural Resources Committee will hold hearings on House Bill 5972, sponsored by State Representative Kim Meltzer (R-33) and House Bill 5973, sponsored by State Representative Joel Sheltrown (D-103).

The hearings will be Tuesday, June 8, at 10:30 a.m., in room 521 of the Anderson House Office Building, across from the Michigan State Capitol. The hearings are open to the public. Anyone who wants to testify before the committee on these bills needs to supply 30 written copies of their testimony.

Under current law any Michigan resident who does not posses a valid Michigan Concealed Pistol License and who wants to purchase a handgun must first obtain a "permit-to-purchase" from their local police department or county Sheriff. The applicant must pass a written test and the purchase permits are only valid for 10 days.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: banglist; examiner; mi; permit; pistol
This would be a fun hearing to attend.
1 posted on 06/08/2010 4:53:22 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
The applicant must pass a written test

Unless that's something new that was added in the last ten years, since I needed a purchase permit, the only test was can you sign your name.

2 posted on 06/08/2010 4:58:25 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. De Vattel)
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To: marktwain

I’m glad I don’t live in a State where you have to jump through hoops just to buy a gun. In Pa. even the conceal carry permit is a snap to get. You pay a $25 processing fee and as long as you don’t have a felony record, you get your conceal license.


3 posted on 06/08/2010 5:14:19 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: 300winmag
Pingie thingie. Interested in your comments.

Maybe I can get my old friend from Texas to join me after all.


4 posted on 06/08/2010 5:16:07 AM PDT by ExGeeEye (Palin/Undecided 2012...make that Palin/Whoever She Picks...)
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To: ASA Vet

I bought my first handgun last year, and had to get the purchase permit. It was no big deal, just a minor inconvenience. The lady at the police station said that nobody fails the test...but they do go over any incorrect answers with you. They’ve since dropped the requirement to take the gun back to the police for inspection.


5 posted on 06/08/2010 5:40:52 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Man is not free unless government is limited.)
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To: marktwain

Only 42 years after the Federal Firearms Act was negated by the 1968 Gun Control Act. Who says government doesn’t respond quickly?


6 posted on 06/08/2010 6:14:35 AM PDT by sig226 (Mourn this day, the death of a great republic. March 21, 2010)
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To: sig226

Well, in NJ, they require a permit to purchase a pistol. This is after you have applied for and received your Firearm Owner ID Card (FID). You have to apply through the municipal police chief, or Supt. of NJ State Police if you live in an unincorporated area, or are a nonresident. It’s a lengthy process, in which you have to provide references, proof of employment, mental health release form, and fingerprints, AND you have to make an appointment with the police dept to do so. Sometimes you’ll hear excuses like: “Oh, the officer that handles that is on vacation, or “Well, why do you want a gun...etc.” Needless to say, one time I changed my address on my FID card, and it took the local police dept more than 4 months to change it. Now, as far as purchasing a pistol, you have to go back to the dept, and apply for a permit to purchase. Once again, money order, sometimes fingerprinting, and it’s supposed to be issued within 30 days....yeah right. The law also says you can apply for as many permits as you want on the application. Well, since dumbass Corzine instituted the one-a-month policy ( which is so vague the NJSP doesn’t know how to enforce it..) the police have interpreted it as to mean you can only apply for one permit at a time, which is erroneous, because the law says you can apply for as many permits as you want, and the permits are valid for 3 months, then renewable for 90 more days. I can only hope that Mc Donald v. Chicago rules in our favor, and strikes down these ridiculous laws. Hopefully Gov. Christie lets them die peacefully, and makes NJ shall issue.


7 posted on 06/08/2010 6:32:35 AM PDT by Seamus Mc Gillicuddy (Say Nope To The Hope Dope in '12!!!!!)
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To: sig226
Only 42 years after the Federal Firearms Act was negated by the 1968 Gun Control Act. Who says government doesn’t respond quickly?

Actually, the Michigan handgun permit and licensing system goes back to the 1934 National Firearms Act, and is based on a "suggested" model state law.

Any improvement is welcome, but all the MSM has fits when the laws are made less stupid, predicting blood flowing in the streets. It never happens, except in Detroit, which issues a miniscule 1100 purchase permits a year.

Now if they'd just make Michigan a more NFA-friendly state when it comes to SBRs, suppressors, and full auto ....

8 posted on 06/08/2010 9:52:41 AM PDT by 300winmag (Overkill never fails)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

Infringement is infringement, whether it’s a purchase permit or a CCW.


9 posted on 06/08/2010 3:42:12 PM PDT by Dayman
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To: Dayman
"Infringement is infringement, whether it’s a purchase permit or a CCW."

Actually, in Pennsylvania it is completely legal to open carry. There are no laws on the books for it or against it. So there is no restriction on bearing of arms. The LTCF (License to carry firearm) is only for conceal carry.
10 posted on 06/08/2010 5:48:41 PM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

I’ve been reading the PAFOA open carry forum for about 2 years because I admire their activism and victories. Concealed carry is just as much a right as open carry. It’s not enough to only have one.


11 posted on 06/08/2010 5:59:33 PM PDT by Dayman
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To: 300winmag

Gun Control a written record of efforts to eliminate the private possession of firearms in America

by Robert J. Kukla

Stackpole Books, ISBN 0-8117-1190-0

Very interesting reading, and discussion of what the Federal Firearms Act was supposed to do. I got a copy of it on Amazon.com, although there isn’t one available right now.


12 posted on 06/08/2010 7:27:05 PM PDT by sig226 (Mourn this day, the death of a great republic. March 21, 2010)
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To: Seamus Mc Gillicuddy

I left New Jersey several years ago, and I will never go back. Even if the state throws all of its liberal into the center of the Atlantic Ocean, the taste of nanny-state tyranny and government sanctioned profiteering is too much for me ever to inhale that air again.

Good luck. Christie seems like a good guy.


13 posted on 06/08/2010 7:36:54 PM PDT by sig226 (Mourn this day, the death of a great republic. March 21, 2010)
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To: ASA Vet
I had to take the test about 10 years ago. It was so easy that it pretty much was a "sign the name."

The good news is that these are being heard by natural resources. That's the good committee. Judiciary is the bad one. We've been working on the state laws for years trying to turn back 80 years of bad laws. We're moving in the right direction.

Hopefully Dillon puts these up for a vote. He will if it's politically expedient. It might be after the August primary. He's running for governor.

14 posted on 06/08/2010 8:08:10 PM PDT by Darren McCarty (I don't look for leaders. I follow my own path, my way.)
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To: ASA Vet

I had to take the test a couple of years, before I received a CPL. But, one of the questions was worded strange, and the Sheriff marked my answer as wrong. After I explained their mistake, they marked it correct.
So much for the “test”.


15 posted on 06/09/2010 2:18:00 AM PDT by gigster
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Actually, in Pennsylvania it is completely legal to open carry. There are no laws on the books for it or against it.

Two caveats: You need an LTCF to openly carry in Philadelphia, and you cannot openly carry in a vehicle. You must either lock it up when you get in and get out of your vehicle, or possess a LTCF.

16 posted on 06/09/2010 8:55:46 AM PDT by Dan Nunn (Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise. -The Great One)
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To: Dan Nunn

I knew about the Philadelphia statute. It’s because it is a city of the first class. However, I believe you can carry a firearm unlocked in your vehicle if it’s unloaded. Correct?


17 posted on 06/09/2010 8:59:39 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Looking over the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act, § 6106 (Firearms not to be carried without a license), the exceptions as they pertain to unlocked firearms in vehicles:

So #4 provides the right to carry it in a vehicle unloaded if you are traveling to or from target practice, #9 if you are traveling to or from hunting/fishing, #11 if you have a LTCF, and #14 under interstate commerce (which does not grant you the right to carry it unlocked anyway). Thus, by reading this law, I don't believe merely unloaded, and not locked, is sufficient in most cases.

18 posted on 06/09/2010 12:27:34 PM PDT by Dan Nunn (Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise. -The Great One)
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To: Dan Nunn
"Thus, by reading this law, I don't believe merely unloaded, and not locked, is sufficient in most cases."

There has to be more. For instance, transporting to and from a gun store. If you didn't have a LTCF how could you ever buy a gun and bring it home? Also, taking it to and from an armorer for repair, upgrade etc... How could you ever legally transport it to get it repaired if you didn't have an LTCF?
19 posted on 06/09/2010 7:33:30 PM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
There has to be more. For instance, transporting to and from a gun store.

Here's the full text of the LTCF law. I think your examples are all encompassed in this exception:

(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

I left this exception out because it said "in a secure wrapper," which I took to mean a locked case. It may not be.

20 posted on 06/10/2010 6:26:58 AM PDT by Dan Nunn (Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise. -The Great One)
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To: Dan Nunn
"I left this exception out because it said "in a secure wrapper," which I took to mean a locked case. It may not be."

That is a strange bit of wording. However, I wonder if being cased is "in a secure wrapper". I would think so. They probably leave it vague that way so that they are not too constrictive on how to transport a weapon. Being cased (i.e. in a holster being one form of cased) should fit the guidelines of being wrapped and secure.
21 posted on 06/10/2010 6:39:00 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
"which I took to mean a locked case. It may not be."

If it meant a locked case, it would not cover all the exceptions I raised. When you buy a firearm, the dealer is not required to sell you a locked case to go along with it. So either it does not cover the exception or if it is supposed to I would think that by law they would be forced to sell you a locked case to go along with the firearm.
22 posted on 06/10/2010 6:41:57 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Dan Nunn

Whoops, my post 22 was meant for you also...


23 posted on 06/10/2010 6:42:49 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
So either it does not cover the exception or if it is supposed to I would think that by law they would be forced to sell you a locked case to go along with the firearm.

Not necessarily, for example, the dealer is not required to even see your LTCF because it is not necessary to purchase a firearm. Thus, he can assume that everyone who purchases can legally carry it loaded in their vehicle.

You're right, I can't see a definition of a secure carrier. But making an effort to carry it securely and unloaded, even if not in a case, may be sufficient. I don't want to be the one to be the test case though, nor could I since I have my LTCF :)

24 posted on 06/10/2010 7:31:27 AM PDT by Dan Nunn (Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise. -The Great One)
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To: Dan Nunn
"nor could I since I have my LTCF :)"

I'm with you. Avoid the whole thing, spend a $25 processing fee and have an LTCF in my wallet...
25 posted on 06/10/2010 7:41:28 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: marktwain

Do you know what, if anything, came of this?


26 posted on 11/04/2010 3:29:33 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (Spread the work ethic; the wealth will follow.)
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To: ExGeeEye
I have not heard anything more. However, the common pattern is to keep coming back with the legislation until it passes. The Michigan legislature should be a bit more amenable to this legislation in January.
27 posted on 11/04/2010 6:06:40 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain; 300winmag

How about now?

The kids in the back: “Are we there yet?”


28 posted on 04/21/2011 1:34:33 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (Freedom is saying "No!" to the Feds, and getting away with it. "Speak 'NO' to Power!")
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