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Genes set Jews apart, study finds (European Jews Descended from Ancient Roman Converts?)
LA Times ^ | June 3, 2010 | Thomas H. Maugh II

Posted on 06/10/2010 9:08:00 AM PDT by GOPGuide

The Jewish people, according to archaeologists, originated in Babylon and Persia between the 4th and 6th centuries BC. The modern-day Jews most closely related to that original population are those in Iran, Iraq and Syria, whose closest non-Jewish relatives are the Druze, Bedouins and Palestinians, the study found.

Sometime in that period, the Middle Eastern and European Jews diverged and the European branch began actively proselytizing for converts.

At the height of the Roman Empire, about 10% of the empire's population was Jewish, although the bulk of them were converts. Some Khazars were also incorporated during this period.

"That explains why so many European and Syrian Jews have blue eyes and blond hair," Ostrer says. It also explains another of the team's findings — that the population most closely related genetically to European Jews are Italians.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 13thtribe; agitprop; ancientautopsies; ancientromans; ancientrome; britishisraelism; epigraphyandlanguage; genes; genetics; genome; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; israel; jews; nonfactsontheground; nonsense; romanempire; romans; rome; thirteenthtribe
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I didn't know Jews sought converts in Antiquity. Is Jewish prosleyltism in Rome mentioned by Ancient Historians?
1 posted on 06/10/2010 9:08:01 AM PDT by GOPGuide
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To: GOPGuide

NO.


2 posted on 06/10/2010 9:09:06 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: justiceseeker93; equalitybeforethelaw; firebrand; ExTexasRedhead; ml/nj; Yaelle; Atom Smasher; ...

Ping


3 posted on 06/10/2010 9:11:38 AM PDT by GOPGuide
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To: GOPGuide
I didn't know Jews sought converts in Antiquity. Is Jewish prosleyltism in Rome mentioned by Ancient Historians?

Probably some did, some didn't. Jesus mentions that the Pharisees compass land and sea to make one proselyte (which may suggest that the Pharisees were either very selective or not very successful). The Hasmoneans at one point tried to convert the Gentile populations in Galilee to Judaism, with a mixed record of success.

4 posted on 06/10/2010 9:12:02 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (We bury Democrats face down so that when they scratch, they get closer to home.)
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To: GOPGuide
There were proselytes in Roman times. The Jewish monotheism held certain attractions theologically and morally. But I am suspicious of research that suggests that modern Jews are different genetically from the biblical ones. That can be a wedge for antisemitism.

5 posted on 06/10/2010 9:12:50 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: GOPGuide

It’s a junk study.

What is more likely is Jewish people in Italy converted to Roman Catholicism, either in an attempt to blend in or by force (forced baptisms of Jewish children was a common practice, followed by stealing them and giving them to childles upper class families).

Leanardo DaVinci, for example, was maternally Jewish.
Chris Columbus, another.


6 posted on 06/10/2010 9:13:07 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: GOPGuide

That doesn’t make a lot of sense. There obviously were Jews before that time period. A friend of who is Jewish, told me that King David had red hair. I did some quick research and that seems to be the consensus tho the Bible just says he had a ruddy complexion.

BTW, Ramses the Great had wavy red hair. Not conjecture either, he really did.


7 posted on 06/10/2010 9:13:10 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: GOPGuide

Khazars did not convert because of outreach from Jews.

Their nobility chose Judaism because they liked it and it was a buffer to them (in modern day SW USSR region)between Cross and Crescent politically since they assumed Judaism not long after Mohammed

I woulda never guessed that 10% Jewish Roman thing.

no doubt many Jews are Semetic.....they show it physically as much as I show the cold Steppes


8 posted on 06/10/2010 9:14:42 AM PDT by wardaddy (I am not in favor of practical endorsements in primaries, endorse the conservative please)
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To: Genoa
There were proselytes in Roman times. The Jewish monotheism held certain attractions theologically and morally. But I am suspicious of research that suggests that modern Jews are different genetically from the biblical ones. That can be a wedge for antisemitism.

I would tend to agree, which is why I'm also leery of the Khazar story. IIRC, only the aristocracy in Khazaria actually converted to Judaism in any great numbers, not the rank and file who typically make up mass population movements.

9 posted on 06/10/2010 9:17:08 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (We bury Democrats face down so that when they scratch, they get closer to home.)
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To: GOPGuide

The Blonde Hair and Blue eyes though could come from many places Jews have lived....Germany obviously...most Aryan looking Jews I’ve known were Germanic or Dutch descended

names like Goldhaber


10 posted on 06/10/2010 9:17:13 AM PDT by wardaddy (I am not in favor of practical endorsements in primaries, endorse the conservative please)
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To: Genoa

“that suggests that modern Jews are different genetically from the biblical ones.”

The study said the Middle Eastern Jews like Persian and Iraqi Jews are closest to the original population of Israel.

But there appear to be different Jewish ethnicities based on where certain Jewish populations have lived for centuries because Judaism is a religion.


11 posted on 06/10/2010 9:17:37 AM PDT by GOPGuide
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To: GOPGuide

“Blessed be the convert”


12 posted on 06/10/2010 9:18:42 AM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: GOPGuide
This is interesting. I have been reading a couple books on the lost tribes of Israel. The books mention that the lost tribes had migrated to Europe and other parts of the world. Also, before all the tribes had been lost, there were tribes like Dan who were able to sail to parts of Europe and trade. Some tribesmen from Dan set up trading post in parts of Europe. Italy, Spain, France, and some believe Ireland and Britain were some of the places they set up posts.

Anyhow, if you are interested, check out: The Story of Celto-Saxon Israel by WH Bennett and Symbols of Our Celto-Saxon Heritage by LG Pine.

13 posted on 06/10/2010 9:19:41 AM PDT by do the dhue (WARNING: this site is not liable for the things I say)
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To: GOPGuide
There have been some who have used alleged genetic distinctions as a preamble to asserting that modern Jews (specifically Ashkenazi) are biblically and prophetically irrelevant.

14 posted on 06/10/2010 9:22:03 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: Genoa
That can be a wedge for antisemitism.

I ran across it on a thread here a while back. Some guy was going on about banking and the Rothschilds not being real Jews but Khazars.

15 posted on 06/10/2010 9:22:28 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: GOPGuide

bookmark


16 posted on 06/10/2010 9:23:01 AM PDT by patriot preacher (To be a good American Citizen and a Christian IS NOT a contradiction. (www.mygration.blogspot.com))
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To: do the dhue
That's Anglo-Israelism, which asserts that Israel (the 10 tribes) migrated to Britain. It asserts that Ephraim is English and Manasseh is American. It proposes biblical support for Anglo-American superiority. Herbert W. Armstrong was a big proponent. The actual historical evidence is mighty thin.

17 posted on 06/10/2010 9:25:31 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: GOPGuide
the population most closely related genetically to European Jews are Italians.

Hollywood casting directors have known this for years.

18 posted on 06/10/2010 9:26:06 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: GOPGuide

“That explains why so many European and Syrian Jews have blue eyes and blond hair,”

is it really that many? Not in my experience. Aren’t most American Jews “European Jews”?


19 posted on 06/10/2010 9:28:00 AM PDT by cdcdawg
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To: cdcdawg

Almost all American Jews are European Jews. Only 5% or so of American Jews are Middle Eastern/Mizrahi.


20 posted on 06/10/2010 9:30:33 AM PDT by GOPGuide
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To: Genoa; do the dhue
That's Anglo-Israelism, which asserts that Israel (the 10 tribes) migrated to Britain. It asserts that Ephraim is English and Manasseh is American. It proposes biblical support for Anglo-American superiority. Herbert W. Armstrong was a big proponent. The actual historical evidence is mighty thin.

It also maintains that the British royal family is directly descended from King David by way of Scotland, and that they are the rightful occupants of David's throne. If this is true, then one look at Prince Charles tells me right away that there must have been some extensive admixture.

21 posted on 06/10/2010 9:34:26 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: wardaddy
I once read that in medieval Germany, Jews were required to assume German names, having to pay for the “privilege”. More desirable or pleasant sounding names, e.g., “Rosenthal”, Rosedale or Rose Valley were priced higher than less appealing names like Schmutz (dirt).
22 posted on 06/10/2010 9:36:17 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The naked casuistry of the high priests of Warmism would make a Jesuit blush.)
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To: GOPGuide

Thanks, that’s what I thought. I have known very few blond and/or blue-eyed Jews. A few redheads. That’s why “so many” in the article stuck me as odd.


23 posted on 06/10/2010 9:36:41 AM PDT by cdcdawg
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To: Genoa
That can be a wedge for antisemitism

there is some validity to that but in a cultural tradition whereby being in the tribe is mostly a birthright it comes with the territory and for no small reason academia in Israel spends a lot of time and money on this subject

24 posted on 06/10/2010 9:44:18 AM PDT by wardaddy (I am not in favor of practical endorsements in primaries, endorse the conservative please)
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To: Jewbacca
"Junk study" is a bit harsh as it was a study to find markers for inherited disease traits. But to the extent the study results are used politically instead of for science then it is worse than junk.

Columbus, based on several biographies, was from Genoa. And an often used shorthand, Genevoese, referring to Jewish Italians is common, yet I believe that there isn't any evidence that he was Jewish. Will Durant in his "Story of Philosophy" speculated on this as well suggesting that 1492's Voyage to the New World was not a search for riches but for a refuge for the Jews as the date coincided with the beginning of the Inquisition in Spain. Would appreciate references for Columbus and DaVinci as well.

25 posted on 06/10/2010 9:44:59 AM PDT by masadaman
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To: GOPGuide

Sure...Rome was known as Hymietown [Hymianus Urbs...]

:]


26 posted on 06/10/2010 9:46:44 AM PDT by Adder (Note to self: 11-2-10 Take out the Trash!!!)
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To: wardaddy; GOPGuide

The blond hair and blue eyes are because Jewish women have for centuries been the object of cruelties at the hands of the minions of many emperors, chieftains, sultans, boyars, kings, czars, and fuehrers.

There is a sad but pragmatic reason that Jews trace their ancestry matrilineally.


27 posted on 06/10/2010 9:47:02 AM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

Whenever you see the Rothschild’s name brought up, you know you’re dealing with a crackpot.


28 posted on 06/10/2010 9:47:04 AM PDT by spyone (ridiculum)
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To: GOPGuide

The Jewish people, according to(ignorant) archaeologists, originated in Babylon and Persia between the 4th and 6th centuries BC.

No, the Jews were descendants of Abraham (2000 BC) and he originated from Ur in Chaldea (whey they are genetically close to Persians). The Exodus is 490 years later, and King David approx.900 BC.

The professor asked,”Oh my, what do they teach in schools these days?”


29 posted on 06/10/2010 9:54:33 AM PDT by Rodm
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To: ccmay

Jews adopted matrilineal descent prior to the diaspora...sometime around Augustus I think

btw...

all women were subject to the sexual whims of the nobility and conquerers

not just Jewish women

my own ancestors too I’d reckon

Celts by Romans..

then Pax Romana Britons by Saxons

then Saxons by Danes

then all by Normans and so forth

I’ve seen studies that Med peoples were fairer in Biblical times than now....Romans and Greeks for sure and Phonecian type and Jews too possibly..who knows


30 posted on 06/10/2010 9:55:38 AM PDT by wardaddy (I am not in favor of practical endorsements in primaries, endorse the conservative please)
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To: Genoa

the wackiest is that Iceland is really the Lost Tribe of Benjamen

http://www.artisanpublishers.com/icelands-great-inheritance-reprint-1937-p-25742.html

some of these folks are sincere...some are Pete Peters.

not too hard to distinguish


31 posted on 06/10/2010 9:59:50 AM PDT by wardaddy (I am not in favor of practical endorsements in primaries, endorse the conservative please)
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To: ccmay; Genoa

I still struggle to understand the concept of Jewishness. At times it seems like a genetic lineage, at other times it seems like a faith. I could convert to orthodox Judaism, but since I have no Jewish ancestry (that I know of), it seems that I would still not really be part of the “tribe”. As for genetic lineage, it seems that a completely nonobservant Jew with the proper ancestry is still a Jew. In Islam, the lineage comes from the father but if a child rejects Islam, they are not only infidels but apostates worthy of death. In most other faiths, genetics has nothing to do with them. You either adopt the faith or don’t.


32 posted on 06/10/2010 10:02:26 AM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: wardaddy
Yes, and the Danish are supposed to be from Dan. Dan-ish.

33 posted on 06/10/2010 10:03:28 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: Sender
In Islam, the lineage comes from the father but if a child rejects Islam, they are not only infidels but apostates worthy of death.

Where does this leave Barack??

34 posted on 06/10/2010 10:04:56 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: Rodm

I wondered how many posts I would have to scroll down on before someone pointed this out. Once again science proves the Word of God.


35 posted on 06/10/2010 10:08:18 AM PDT by fish hawk (the)
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To: do the dhue

Hey there! I havn’t noticed you posting lately. A Freeper asked me today about whatever happened to Laurie Dhue. I told him I didn’t know but I remembered a Freeper named “Do the Dhue”! LOL!


36 posted on 06/10/2010 10:19:04 AM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

Ping.


37 posted on 06/10/2010 10:19:34 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: wardaddy

I would take a gander and say that was because of the conquering Ottomans...


38 posted on 06/10/2010 10:31:59 AM PDT by stefanbatory (Weed out the RINOs! Sign the pledge. conservativepledge.org)
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To: colorado tanker; GOPGuide
3.5 million Ashkenazi Jews 'traced to four female ancestors'
39 posted on 06/10/2010 10:33:21 AM PDT by blam
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To: masadaman; Jewbacca
The most recent evidence published in two books ("Was Leonardo's Mother a Slave?" and "Leonardo's Family Tree," both edited by da Vinci scholars Agnese Sabato and Alessandro Vezzosi) concerning Da Vinci's mother is that 1) She was a slave (not a local peasant). 2) Most of the slaves in Florence at that time were from the Middle East and the Balkans. 3) The slaves from those areas also included Muslims.

Here's a LINK to one of many online articles based on those 2 books.

As for Jawabac's swipe against America - "residents of Iroquois territory" - the Iroquois nation was itself built on warfare against other tribes, enslavement of the conquered and occupation of their lands. Many other Native American tribes were wiped out by the Iroquois. They make a poor choice for poster children against the morality of colonial European Americans.

40 posted on 06/10/2010 10:34:22 AM PDT by drpix
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To: Genoa

Between a black rock and a hard place. But seriously, the Islamic world so desperately hoped to embrace Barack as one of their own, if he would just accede to their demands and throw Israel under the bus. But Barack is also a Chicago politician, and he must balance his own interests between the Muslim opinion and the Jewish opinion. The only reason that Israel is not already under the bus is because Barack knows so many voters here would revolt. Even now, he is scheming with his Muttleys on how to proceed yet survive. If the “aid flotilla massacre” fabrication holds up, it will be an excuse to push Israel one foot closer to falling off the bus. When they force the nuclear NPT on Israel, one foot closer. What a tangled web they weave, when at first they practice to deceive.


41 posted on 06/10/2010 10:34:46 AM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: masadaman; Jewbacca
CORRECTION:

The slaves from those areas also included Muslims. = The slaves from those areas also included Muslims & Christians.

42 posted on 06/10/2010 10:37:32 AM PDT by drpix
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

Anyone who converts is a “real Jew.” Abraham and Sarah were the first “converts.”

But the whole study is nonsense.

There are ample studies that show the Cohen line (Levitical priests) where ever they are -— Ashkenazi, Persian/Mizrahi, Sephardic, share the same paternal Y chromosome.

Similarly, plenty of studies that show close genetic relations with -— ick -— our arab neighbors.


43 posted on 06/10/2010 10:38:59 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

“than less appealing names like Schmutz (dirt)”

Or their German masters thought it was funny:

Einstein (one balled)


44 posted on 06/10/2010 10:40:22 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Sender
Not cool that we have an "apostate" in the White House. If he does anything at all to assist Israel, he knows his life is at risk at the hands of some crazy Muslim. Talk about a conflict of interest.

45 posted on 06/10/2010 10:41:47 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: Jewbacca

Einstein might also be translated as “monolith”.

More likely than not, Einstein is a German place name, like London or Kent in England. Many German Jews had assumed ordinary Germans names the same way other Germans did, by profession or place of birth. Names like Rosenthal and Rosenberg are “Jewish” because it was unusual for German gentiles to have them.


46 posted on 06/10/2010 10:49:33 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The naked casuistry of the high priests of Warmism would make a Jesuit blush.)
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To: masadaman

Columbus is ambiguious

http://www.closetotorah.com/archives/1328

DaVinci is pretty much common knowledge that his mother (essentially a house maid) was the Jewish “girl friend” of his fahter.

http://www.closetotorah.com/archives/1328


47 posted on 06/10/2010 10:49:39 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: yarddog
Joseph, of the Coat of Many Colors, married an Egyptian princess.

Moses was descended from this line - studies strongly support him being the actual son of the princess (married grandson of Joseph) who supposedly plucked him from the Nile.

The princess's offspring were a threat to the reigning Pharaoh, as the next in line.

She had already had her first born killed for that reason. The research claims that when she fond herself pregnant again, she kept it a secret and went on an extended stay to her remote country villa. There, she gave birth to Moses (Amenhotep IV changed his name to Akhenaten when he became Pharaoh) and she acquired a wet nurse from his Hebrew relatives - wet nursing was the common practice. She perpetuated the myth that he was a baby she plucked from the Nile until time made it safe for his true identity to be made known. We know that he was raised as a prince, son of Amenhotep 111, schooled and prepared for rule.)

As the Pharaoh, Akhenaten, he moved the capitol of Egypt and established a ONE GOD religion.

His son was Tutankamen -

Not long after his death, the powerful priests outlawed the One God religion and all mention and evidence of Moses was ordered destroyed, as was the custom for rulers in disgrace.

Very little escaped the purge...

There are some, however, like tihs statue in the Cairo Museum:

and his wife, Nefertiti

Akhenaten, Nefertiti and some of their children

There is a plethora of information on thenet now. There was hardly any information - and no net ;o) - when I first started research on it 20+ years ago.

48 posted on 06/10/2010 10:51:08 AM PDT by maine-iac7
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To: maine-iac7
I thought that the Bible was pretty clear about Moses being a full-blooded Levite. Exodus 2:1-2.

49 posted on 06/10/2010 10:54:13 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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To: drpix

“As for Jawabac’s swipe against America - “residents of Iroquois territory””

It’s not a swipe against America. It’s a quote by an Israeli official in response to Hillary Clinton.

http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/05/29/top_stories/doc4a1f3b3710e19186990802.txt

“Israeli Government Press Director Daniel Seamen reacted to this Obama administration statement by saying: “I have to admire the residents of Iroquois territory for assuming that they have a right to determine where Jews should live in Jerusalem.””


50 posted on 06/10/2010 10:55:09 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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