Posted on 06/10/2010 5:31:37 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
Jewish communities in Europe and the Middle East share many genes inherited from the ancestral Jewish population that lived in the Middle East some 3,000 years ago, even though each community also carries genes from other sources — usually the country in which it lives.
That is the conclusion of two new genetic surveys, the first to use genome-wide scanning devices to compare many Jewish communities around the world.
A major surprise from both surveys is the genetic closeness of the two Jewish communities of Europe, the Ashkenazim and the Sephardim. The Ashkenazim thrived in Northern and Eastern Europe until their devastation by the Hitler regime, and now live mostly in the United States and Israel. The Sephardim were exiled from Spain in 1492 and from Portugal in 1497 and moved to the Ottoman Empire, North Africa and the Netherlands.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
This clearly (and scientifically) undercuts and disproves that particular theory and proves pretty conclusively that they (European Jews) are indeed people of Semitic ancestry.
The nose knows.
more evidence of Israel being their historic homeland
For the peace of Jerusalem we pray, O Lord.
If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with. Writ large.
And in other news...cats have whiskers!
Ping!
yeah, but just west Jerusalem /sarc
LOL!
This is not a particularly new dogma. Jews came to France before the Gauls --- circa II century, with and in Roman legions --- but received citizenship there only in 1781. They came to Germany long ago (in IX century vs. the Goths' invasion in the V century) but received citizenship there only in 1869. Throughout all those centuries, nobody questioned whether there were European Germans, European Gauls, European Hungarians --- all invaders --- but Jews were always and unquestionably a "foreign race." And there was always one theory or another to support that view.
The conversion "theory" is but a recent exponent. It was "popularized" by Arabs who ceased on "Jews of Khazaria," a book that suggested that some East European Jews are descendants of khazars, who indeed converted to Judaism. The Arab "theorists" took this idea to extreme and claimed that all East European, and then all European, Jews descended from khazars. The ever anti-Semitic Left has of course accepted the Arab version lock stock and barrel.
Arabs are of Semitic ancestry as well and this covers both Christian and Muslim ones.
Stop the Presses: Headline
Jews are who they say they are.
What a revelation.
Can I add that the book was written by a drug-user, serial rapist who didn’t have the balls to commit suicide by himself and persuaded his healthy wife to join him?
Thank you so much for these details, none of which I knew. Could you please point me to some references for further reading?
And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered . . . And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
I'm not surprised at the genetic test results. I assumed that would be the case, since I trust the Author of that old book to get things right.
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For the peace of Jerusalem we pray, O Lord.
Amen !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
are you the same uriel with the circumflex in the name?
If so, how do you keystroke in a circumflex?
If so, how do you keystroke in a circumflex?
There seem to be two different code tables being used at FR. Very confusing. Yes.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Sure:
Arthur Koestler author of “The Thirteenth Tribe”
http://www.answers.com/topic/arthur-koestler
“Koestler spent most of 1966 and the early months of 1967 working on The Ghost in the Machine. In his article Return Trip to Nirvana, published in 1967 in the Sunday Telegraph, Koestler wrote about the drug culture and his own experiences with hallucinogens. The article also challenged the defence of drugs in Aldous Huxley’s The Doors of Perception.”
Be sure to scroll all the way down, it tells about his personal life, drug use, doing acid with Timothy Leary, suicide...
Morality & Arthur Koestler
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2000/apr/27/morality-arthur-koestler/
However, I patiently await its advent since I am curious to see how Scammell deals with the dark side of Koestler’s personality. In various utterances he has displayed a tendency to exculpate Koestler and disparage his accusers. He said of Jill Craigie, whom Koestler raped, that “I don’t think she was making it up, I just think the details may have been a little less lurid than described.” Perhaps in his long-anticipated book he will explain the difference between a “lurid” rape and a “less lurid” rape.
http://www.mclemee.com/id88.html
Koestler became one of the most influential of intellectual Cold Warriors. Yet by the mid-1950s, he was losing interest in politics altogether. He studied the history of science. He published speculations on the psychology of human creativity and destructiveness. Now very dubious about political ideology, Koestler tried to patch together his own theory of the cosmos. His last few books concerned ESP, the mysteries of coincidence and other odd topics. This development earned Koestler a new reputation, as kook.
Ian Hamilton, his first biographer, examined Koestler’s activist years with respectful attention. But he announced that Koestler’s post-political work simply did not interest him; so he summed up these later developments in a few quick, awkward pages. The result was a strangely lopsided book. But it was a portrait of Koestler as an admirer would prefer to remember him: a writer who defined for the public mind one of the decisive questions of the 20th Century, namely totalitarianism. Given that, one should be discreet, and not pay undue attention to his later interest in the possibility of bodily levitation through mind-power.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_oh_to_be.html
As it happens, Koestler’s relations with women now have more to do with his reputation than does anything that he ever wrote. Since the 1998 publication of David Cesarani’s biographical study, Koestler’s name has been synonymous with rape, possibly serial in nature, and the abuse of women. I tested this association on several friends with literary interests: though none had read Cesarani’s book, in each case, the first thought on hearing Koestler’s name was of rape. It is doubtful whether any biography has ever affected the reputation of an author more profoundly than did Cesarani’s; and its effect is proof, if we needed any, that books have an influence far beyond their actual readership.
Cesarani is a serious scholar, not a man to manufacture sensational claims for non-scholarly purposes; and, in fact, his widely publicized revelations, which came as a considerable shock, receive a kind of confirmation from a scene in Koestler’s novel Arrival and Departure, published in 1943.
The book is at least partly autobiographical. Its protagonist (hero would be too positive a word) is Peter Slavek, a young refugee and former Communist militant from an unnamed Balkan country now under Nazi occupation. Slavek arrives in the capital of a neutral country—clearly Lisbon, Portugal—from which he hopes to reach England and enlist in the British forces, the only ones still fighting the Nazis at that time. Koestler himself reached England from Portugal with the same idea in mind, and his description of Lisbon’s wartime atmosphere clearly draws on firsthand experience.
While in Lisbon, Slavek falls in love with, or forms an infatuation for, Odette, a young French refugee awaiting a visa for America. Odette has taken no notice of Slavek, but one day she visits a friend’s apartment, where the Balkan refugee is temporarily staying. The friend is absent, so Slavek and Odette are alone. There follows a scene that suggests that Koestler was as personally acquainted with rape as he was with the fervid atmosphere of wartime Lisbon.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article1148594.ece
A NEW biography of Jill Craigie, the late Scottish film-maker who was married to Michael Foot, provides further evidence that she was raped by Arthur Koestler, the political novelist.
In the book, to be published in October, Ronald Neame, an American film director who employed Craigie as a screenwriter on two films, The Million Pound Note and Windom’s Way, says she told him in 1952 that she had been raped by Koestler.
Hope that helps!
Just a note, are you aware of this ‘bug’ in the forum software?
It is amazing how many people jumped on that book as a justification for their treatment of Jews. It gave them cover - they like to say, “Well, you are not really Jews anyway, you’re Khazars. I like ‘real Jews’ but they don’t live in Israel.”
The shocking part to me has always been the total contempt given to those who convert to Judaism. Christianity and Islam both seek converts and both have a history of forced conversions. Islam is still actively seeking to take over the world and force Islam upon us all.
Yet both (many) Christians and Muslims treat Jewishness as if it is a bloodline matter only. You see, if it becomes widely known that Judaism accepts converts - then many of their “Illuminati by Satanic Bloodline” conspiracy accusations fall apart.
If it is proved that either the Ashkenazi bloodlines are in fact “Jewish” OR the bloodlines don’t matter at all - then they are out of business. Then perhaps people will start asking who is REALLY doing these things.
Hmmmm - the “evil” Rothschilds who started that terrible “Star of David” stuff - I’m sorry, Magen Davids have been found that were more than a thousand years old. Lie broken.
Plot to start the Illuminati - I’m sorry, I haven’t been able to find any evidence whatsoever that Adam Weishaupt ever met any of the Rothschilds.
The Rothchilds are “Devil worshippers” - still no evidence. There is some evidence that after all these accusations were floating around that some of them MAY have become involved in occult activities - but that came after, not before the “stories”.
There is a lot of evidence that Freemasonry pre-dated the Rothschilds by hundreds if not thousands of years.
So many accusations have been made over time, seemingly fixated on Jewish wealth. It has to do with a fundamental difference of belief between Christians and Jews. There is a Christian belief that Satan has been given authority over the physical world. In Judaism, there is the belief that nothing exists that G-d did not create. That G-d is ruler of everything. That there is no reason to fear a creation more than you would fear the Creator. That all the gold and silver in the world belongs to G-d and He gives it to who He wants to have it.
Many people ask the question, “How can so many evil people become wealthy? It must be because they sold their soul to the Devil.” No. G-d put many rules in place, rules that apply no matter who you are. If you follow those rules, you will be rewarded, period. Rain falls on the wicked and the righteous alike, and all of the rules that G-d made apply to both the righteous and the wicked alike.
This is no secret, if you want to be rich - it tells you in the Torah - pay your tithes. It is just that simple. It aggravates me to no end that George Soros is a billionaire, but he pays his tithes - so he is rich.
The greatest occult secret in the history of mankind is this - “There is no secret.” G-d rules this world, we may not always understand the purpose behind His actions and that is okay.
People like to perform secret rituals, use special words, wear special clothes, do all kinds of things that make them feel like they have a measure of control over the future - but that is only an illusion. There are things that are done because they are required by G-d, but anything else - is a waste of time. Jews don’t do the things we do because we are afraid of hell, we don’t believe in hell (most of us anyway). We do the things we do for one reason and one reason only: because G-d told us to do them.
This is the key behind the greatest disservice that the Roman Paul ever did to Christians - and I’ll let you ask yourself if you had to follow the teachings of Jesus OR the teachings of Paul - what would you do? And don’t say that they are the same - they are not.
Your observation on how the notion of Jewishness is interpreted (and often deliberately manipulated) reminded me of Marwin Lowenthal's "Jews of Germany: A Story of Sixteen Centuries," a remarkable book in so many respects. It has explained to me and put in perspective this and great many other related questions. I think you would enjoy reading it. (I bought it blindly because it was published in 1936, hence a rare history not colored by the Holocaust. It has exceeded my expectations: thorough and full of deep insights, it is not dry at all and reads easily despite the rather sad subject matter. I think you would enjoy it.)
Best regards, TQ
Thanks, I’ll see if I can find a copy.
Conversely, these studies also reveal the Mormon claim that the Indians were a lost Hebrew tribe are greatly unfounded.
The Mormons believe the American Indians were a lost Hebrew Tribe? I had no idea. I know so little about the Mormon faith, I probably should be embarrassed by it.
The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people
Genetic testing raises an age-old question — are the Jews a people, or a religion? thread of NY Post article
At any rate, most Khazars never converted to Judaism as the soruce material available to Koestler showed. The Arab accounts were quite clear. Genetics has now shown this correct. Koestlers ode to 1930's Hungarian Jewish assimilation and communist anti-Zionism is fiction. I do, however, suggest "Darkness at Noon".
TopQuark confused me with Arthur Koestler and confused my book “The Jews of Khazaria” with “The Thirteenth Tribe”.
Most of the Arab and Socialist propagandists cite Koestler, not me. The Arabs were already doing this propaganda way back in 1947, too, so even Koestler did not start it as Koestler’s book came out in 1976.
I disproved some of Koestler’s contentions regarding the Khazars in the second edition of my book, published by Rowman and Littlefield in 2006. I showed that the majority of Jewish ancestry comes from outside of Khazaria, and largely from the Middle East. In the first edition (1999) I speculated that no more than 25% of Ashkenazic ancestry comes from the Khazars. It now seems to be smaller than that, probably between 1% and 13% on the paternal side depending on which East European and Central Asian genetic haplogroup(s) may or may not come from the Khazars - no more than 19% at any rate.
Kevin Brook
You are absolutely correct: all the while participating on this thread, I was thinking of "The Thirteenth Tribe” but have written, incorrectly, “The Jews of Khazaria.”
Please accept my apology. Thank you for your correction.
P.S. I do own a copy of your book. :)
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