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I NO LONGER blame BP (Vanity)

Posted on 06/15/2010 6:33:30 PM PDT by USALiberty

Accidents happen. BP was going about the work of GETTING ENERGY FOR AMERICA and had an accident. But after about the first week, this thing was OWNED by the federal government. It was OBAMA's JOB to make sure that oil never got to our shores. HE FAILED!

Have you noticed that even MEXICO is doing a better job of keeping the oil off its shores? Hmmmm? The state-controlled media isn't even TRYING to explain that!

THIS IS OBAMA's DISASTER. If we had a PATRIOTIC president, we would have this contained. Period. But, honestly, I think the Kenyan Usurper is laughing at the damage is is gleeful to see what is happening.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bp; kenyanusurper; obamaoilspill; oilspill; vanity

1 posted on 06/15/2010 6:33:31 PM PDT by USALiberty
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To: USALiberty

2 posted on 06/15/2010 6:34:42 PM PDT by outofstyle (Anti-socialist)
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To: USALiberty
From a referenced article, in this post -- Post #4 ...

BP's Horrible Safety Record: It's Got 760 OSHA Fines, Exxon Has Just 1

It definitely shows "how BP operates" ... :-)

3 posted on 06/15/2010 6:35:41 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: USALiberty

4 posted on 06/15/2010 6:35:42 PM PDT by Oceander (The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance -- Thos. Jefferson)
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To: USALiberty
I place the blame at the feet of the green movement.

If it wasn't for them, drilling would be taking place in shallower waters and beaches where mishaps could be more easily contained.

Not real hard to figure out.

5 posted on 06/15/2010 6:35:50 PM PDT by what's up
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To: USALiberty

95% plus of the blame for this can be layed at BP managements’ feet. They intentionally by-passed well safety procedures.

No excuse.


6 posted on 06/15/2010 6:36:15 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: USALiberty
From another FReeper's post in the following thread ...

BP Official Admits to Damage BENEATH THE SEA FLOOR

His post is Post #183 ...



The following information comes from recent measurements from the EPS and NOAA:

The Deepwater Horizon was an ultra-deep well, meaning that the well itself drilled down to as far as 18, to 25,000 feet, nearly throw the Earths crust, we could every well have hit a strata of oil or a Bathetic of oil. Oil at those depths can reach levels of pressure of 70,000lbs psi. There is no technology known that can handle that pressure. Normal psi for a well is 1,500psi.

What this is doing is eroding the pipe and the surrounding area and digging a bigger fissure, much like if you stick a high-pressure hose in the ground, only in this case from the bottom up. This is causing other streams to open up, hence why we're seeing plumbs appearing miles away from the original rupture.

But that isn't the worst part. As bad as the oil is it is biodegradable. Along with the oil, deadly gases are escaping at the following unprecedented levels (from resent EPA measurements).

Hydrogen Sulfide - safe level = 5-10 parts per billion.
What's been measured: 1,200 parts per billion.

Benzine - safe level = 0-4 parts per billion.
What's been measured: 3,000 parts per billion.

Metholine Chloride - safe level = 61 parts per billion.
What's been measured: 3,400 parts per billion.

These gases can cause massive health effects ranging from shortness of breath to cancer to death. In fact, we've seen some surface workers hospitalized.

Insiders are now saying that there now may be only one way to stop this monster: Nuke it. However there is no guarantee that this wouldn't make matters even worse by opening up even a bigger rupture or creating multiple fissures in the sea floor.

If nothing at all is done, there is reason to believe this rupture will go on for years, possibly decades.

And if this isn't bad enough, Corexit 9500, the dispersant being used, is many times more damaging than the oil itself. Its highly toxic. At the temperatures in the Gulf waters this toxicity is magnified and turns into a gas that can be picked up by clouds and return to Earth as a toxic rain. This "death from above" precipitation may have the ability to destroy life from micro organisms up through the entire entire ecosystem. So the chemical "solution" to the hydrocarbon Extinction Level Event may turn out to be a localized environmental holocaust.

I really wish I had been wrong about this.



Formatted a slight bit differently than in the post, itself ...

7 posted on 06/15/2010 6:36:15 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: USALiberty

Deepwater Oil Spill - A Longer Term Problem

OK let's get real about the GOM oil flow. There doesn't really seem to be much info on TOD that furthers more complete understanding of what's really happening in the GOM.

As you have probably seen and maybe feel yourselves, there are several things that do not appear to make sense regarding the actions of attack against the well. Don't feel bad, there is much that doesn't make sense even to professionals unless you take into account some important variables that we are not being told about. There seems to me to be a reluctance to face what cannot be termed anything less than grim circumstances in my opinion. There certainly is a reluctance to inform us regular people and all we have really gotten is a few dots here and there...

First of all...set aside all your thoughts of plugging the well and stopping it from blowing out oil using any method from the top down. Plugs, big valves to just shut it off, pinching the pipe closed, installing a new bop or lmrp, shooting any epoxy in it, top kills with mud etc etc etc....forget that, it won't be happening..it's done and over. In fact actually opening up the well at the subsea source and allowing it to gush more is not only exactly what has happened, it was probably necessary, or so they think anyway.

So you have to ask WHY? Why make it worse?...there really can only be one answer and that answer does not bode well for all of us. It's really an inescapable conclusion at this point, unless you want to believe that every Oil and Gas professional involved suddenly just forgot everything they know or woke up one morning and drank a few big cups of stupid and got assigned to directing the response to this catastrophe. Nothing makes sense unless you take this into account, but after you do...you will see the "sense" behind what has happened and what is happening. That conclusion is this:

The well bore structure is compromised "Down hole".

That is something which is a "Worst nightmare" conclusion to reach. While many have been saying this for some time as with any complex disaster of this proportion many have "said" a lot of things with no real sound reasons or evidence for jumping to such conclusions, well this time it appears that they may have jumped into the right place...

TOP KILL - FAILS:

This was probably our best and only chance to kill this well from the top down. This "kill mud" is a tried and true method of killing wells and usually has a very good chance of success. The depth of this well presented some logistical challenges, but it really should not of presented any functional obstructions. The pumping capacity was there and it would have worked, should have worked, but it didn't.

It didn't work, but it did create evidence of what is really happening. First of all the method used in this particular top kill made no sense, did not follow the standard operating procedure used to kill many other wells and in fact for the most part was completely contrary to the procedure which would have given it any real chance of working.

When a well is "Killed" using this method heavy drill fluid "Mud" is pumped at high volume and pressure into a leaking well. The leaks are "behind" the point of access where the mud is fired in, in this case the "choke and Kill lines" which are at the very bottom of the BOP (Blow Out Preventer) The heavy fluid gathers in the "behind" portion of the leaking well assembly, while some will leak out, it very quickly overtakes the flow of oil and only the heavier mud will leak out. Once that "solid" flow of mud is established at the leak "behind" the well, the mud pumps increase pressure and begin to overtake the pressure of the oil deposit. The mud is established in a solid column that is driven downward by the now stronger pumps. The heavy mud will create a solid column that is so heavy that the oil deposit can no longer push it up, shut off the pumps...the well is killed...it can no longer flow.

Usually this will happen fairly quickly, in fact for it to work at all...it must happen quickly. There is no "trickle some mud in" because that is not how a top kill works. The flowing oil will just flush out the trickle and a solid column will never be established. Yet what we were told was "It will take days to know whether it worked"...."Top kill might take 48 hours to complete"...the only way it could take days is if BP intended to do some "test fires" to test integrity of the entire system. The actual "kill" can only take hours by nature because it must happen fairly rapidly. It also increases strain on the "behind" portion and in this instance we all know that what remained was fragile at best.

Early that afternoon we saw a massive flow burst out of the riser "plume" area. This was the first test fire of high pressure mud injection. Later on same day we saw a greatly increased flow out of the kink leaks, this was mostly mud at that time as the kill mud is tanish color due to the high amount of Barite which is added to it to weight it and Barite is a white powder.

We later learned the pumping was shut down at midnight, we weren't told about that until almost 16 hours later, but by then...I'm sure BP had learned the worst. The mud they were pumping in was not only leaking out the "behind" leaks...it was leaking out of someplace forward...and since they were not even near being able to pump mud into the deposit itself, because the well would be dead long before...and the oil was still coming up, there could only be one conclusion...the wells casings were ruptured and it was leaking "down hole"

They tried the "Junk shot"...the "bridging materials" which also failed and likely made things worse in regards to the ruptured well casings.

"Despite successfully pumping a total of over 30,000 barrels of heavy mud, in three attempts at rates of up to 80 barrels a minute, and deploying a wide range of different bridging materials, the operation did not overcome the flow from the well."

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7062487

80 Barrels per minute is over 200,000 gallons per hour, over 115,000 barrels per day...did we seen an increase over and above what was already leaking out of 115k bpd?....we did not...it would have been a massive increase in order of multiples and this did not happen.

"The whole purpose is to get the kill mud down,” said Wells. “We'll have 50,000 barrels of mud on hand to kill this well. It's far more than necessary, but we always like to have backup."

Try finding THAT quote around...it's been scrubbed...here's a cached copy of a quote...

"The "top kill" effort, launched Wednesday afternoon by industry and government engineers, had pumped enough drilling fluid to block oil and gas spewing from the well, Allen said. The pressure from the well was very low, he said, but persisting."

"Allen said one ship that was pumping fluid into the well had run out of the fluid, or "mud," and that a second ship was on the way. He said he was encouraged by the progress."

http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20100527/ARTICLES/100529348

Later we found out that Allen had no idea what was really going on and had been "Unavailable all day"

So what we had was BP running out of 50,000 barrels of mud in a very short period of time. An amount far and above what they deemed necessary to kill the well. Shutting down pumping 16 hours before telling anyone, including the president. We were never really given a clear reason why "Top Kill" failed, just that it couldn't overcome the well.

There is only one article anywhere that says anything else about it at this time of writing...and it's a relatively obscure article from the wall street journal "online" citing an unnamed source.


WASHINGTON—BP PLC has concluded that its "top-kill" attempt last week to seal its broken well in the Gulf of Mexico may have failed due to a malfunctioning disk inside the well about 1,000 feet below the ocean floor.

The disk, part of the subsea safety infrastructure, may have ruptured during the surge of oil and gas up the well on April 20 that led to the explosion aboard the Deepwater Horizon rig, BP officials said. The rig sank two days later, triggering a leak that has since become the worst in U.S. history.

The broken disk may have prevented the heavy drilling mud injected into the well last week from getting far enough down the well to overcome the pressure from the escaping oil and gas, people familiar with BP's findings said. They said much of the drilling mud may also have escaped from the well into the rock formation outside the wellbore.

As a result, BP wasn't able to get sufficient pressure to keep the oil and gas at bay. If they had been able to build up sufficient pressure, the company had hoped to pump in cement and seal off the well. The effort was deemed a failure on Saturday.

BP started the top-kill effort Wednesday afternoon, shooting heavy drilling fluids into the broken valve known as a blowout preventer. The mud was driven by a 30,000 horsepower pump installed on a ship at the surface. But it was clear from the start that a lot of the "kill mud" was leaking out instead of going down into the well.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704875604575280133577164268.html


There are some inconsistencies with this article.

There are no "Disks" or "Subsea safety structure" 1,000 feet below the sea floor, all that is there is well bore. There is nothing that can allow the mud or oil to "escape" into the rock formation outside the well bore except the well, because it is the only thing there.

All the actions and few tid bits of information all lead to one inescapable conclusion. The well pipes below the sea floor are broken and leaking. Now you have some real data of how BP's actions are evidence of that, as well as some murky statement from "BP officials" confirming the same.

I took some time to go into a bit of detail concerning the failure of Top Kill because this was a significant event. To those of us outside the real inside loop, yet still fairly knowledgeable, it was a major confirmation of what many feared. That the system below the sea floor has serious failures of varying magnitude in the complicated chain, and it is breaking down and it will continue to.

What does this mean?

It means they will never cap the gusher after the wellhead. They cannot...the more they try and restrict the oil gushing out the bop?...the more it will transfer to the leaks below. Just like a leaky garden hose with a nozzle on it. When you open up the nozzle?...it doesn't leak so bad, you close the nozzle?...it leaks real bad, same dynamics. It is why they sawed the riser off...or tried to anyway...but they clipped it off, to relieve pressure on the leaks "down hole". I'm sure there was a bit of panic time after they crimp/pinched off the large riser pipe and the Diamond wire saw got stuck and failed...because that crimp diverted pressure and flow to the rupture down below.

Contrary to what most of us would think as logical to stop the oil mess, actually opening up the gushing well and making it gush more became direction BP took after confirming that there was a leak. In fact if you note their actions, that should become clear. They have shifted from stopping or restricting the gusher to opening it up and catching it. This only makes sense if they want to relieve pressure at the leak hidden down below the seabed.....and that sort of leak is one of the most dangerous and potentially damaging kind of leak there could be. It is also inaccessible which compounds our problems. There is no way to stop that leak from above, all they can do is relieve the pressure on it and the only way to do that right now is to open up the nozzle above and gush more oil into the gulf and hopefully catch it, which they have done, they just neglected to tell us why, gee thanks.

A down hole leak is dangerous and damaging for several reasons.

There will be erosion throughout the entire beat up, beat on and beat down remainder of the "system" including that inaccessible leak. The same erosion I spoke about in the first post is still present and has never stopped, cannot be stopped, is impossible to stop and will always be present in and acting on anything that is left which has crude oil "Product" rushing through it. There are abrasives still present, swirling flow will create hot spots of wear and this erosion is relentless and will always be present until eventually it wears away enough material to break it's way out. It will slowly eat the bop away especially at the now pinched off riser head and it will flow more and more. Perhaps BP can outrun or keep up with that out flow with various suckage methods for a period of time, but eventually the well will win that race, just how long that race will be?...no one really knows....However now?...there are other problems that a down hole leak will and must produce that will compound this already bad situation.

This down hole leak will undermine the foundation of the seabed in and around the well area. It also weakens the only thing holding up the massive Blow Out Preventer's immense bulk of 450 tons. In fact?...we are beginning to the results of the well's total integrity beginning to fail due to the undermining being caused by the leaking well bore.

The first layer of the sea floor in the gulf is mostly lose material of sand and silt. It doesn't hold up anything and isn't meant to, what holds the entire subsea system of the Bop in place is the well itself. The very large steel connectors of the initial well head "spud" stabbed in to the sea floor. The Bop literally sits on top of the pipe and never touches the sea bed, it wouldn't do anything in way of support if it did. After several tens of feet the seabed does begin to support the well connection laterally (side to side) you couldn't put a 450 ton piece of machinery on top of a 100' tall pipe "in the air" and subject it to the side loads caused by the ocean currents and expect it not to bend over...unless that pipe was very much larger than the machine itself, which you all can see it is not. The well's piping in comparison is actually very much smaller than the Blow Out Preventer and strong as it may be, it relies on some support from the seabed to function and not literally fall over...and it is now showing signs of doing just that....falling over.

If you have been watching the live feed cams you may have noticed that some of the ROVs are using an inclinometer...and inclinometer is an instrument that measures "Incline" or tilt. The BOP is not supposed to be tilting...and after the riser clip off operation it has begun to...

This is not the only problem that occurs due to erosion of the outer area of the well casings. The way a well casing assembly functions it that it is an assembly of different sized "tubes" that decrease in size as they go down. These tubes have a connection to each other that is not unlike a click or snap together locking action. After a certain length is assembled they are cemented around the ouside to the earth that the more rough drill hole is bored through in the well making process. A very well put together and simply explained process of "How to drill a deep water oil well" is available here.

The well bore casings rely on the support that is created by the cementing phase of well construction. Just like if you have many hands holding a pipe up you could put some weight on the top and the many hands could hold the pipe and the weight on top easily...but if there were no hands gripping and holding the pipe?...all the weight must be held up by the pipe alone. The series of connections between the sections of casings are not designed to hold up the immense weight of the BOP without all the "hands" that the cementing provides and they will eventually buckle and fail when stressed beyond their design limits.

These are clear and present dangers to the battered subsea safety structure (bop and lmrp) which is the only loose cork on this well we have left. The immediate (first 1,000 feet) of well structure that remains is now also undoubtedly compromised. However.....as bad as that is?...it is far from the only possible problems with this very problematic well. There were ongoing troubles with the entire process during the drilling of this well. There were also many comprises made by BP IMO which may have resulted in an overall weakened structure of the entire well system all the way to the bottom plug which is over 12,000 feet deep. Problems with the cementing procedure which was done by Haliburton and was deemed as “was against our best practices.” by a Haliburton employee on April 1st weeks before the well blew out. There is much more and I won't go into detail right now concerning the lower end of the well and the troubles encountered during the whole creation of this well and earlier "Well control" situations that were revieled in various internal BP e-mails. I will add several links to those documents and quotes from them below and for now, address the issues concerning the upper portion of the well and the region of the sea floor.

What is likely to happen now?

Well...none of what is likely to happen is good, in fact...it's about as bad as it gets. I am convinced the erosion and compromising of the entire system is accelerating and attacking more key structural areas of the well, the blow out preventer and surrounding strata holding it all up and together. This is evidenced by the tilt of the blow out preventer and the erosion which has exposed the well head connection. What eventually will happen is that the blow out preventer will literally tip over if they do not run supports to it as the currents push on it. I suspect they will run those supports as cables tied to anchors very soon, if they don't, they are inviting disaster that much sooner.

Eventually even that will be futile as the well casings cannot support the weight of the massive system above with out the cement bond to the earth and that bond is being eroded away. When enough is eroded away the casings will buckle and the BOP will collapse the well. If and when you begin to see oil and gas coming up around the well area from under the BOP? or the area around the well head connection and casing sinking more and more rapidly? ...it won't be too long after that the entire system fails. BP must be aware of this, they are mapping the sea floor sonically and that is not a mere exercise. Our Gov't must be well aware too, they just are not telling us.

All of these things lead to only one place, a fully wide open well bore directly to the oil deposit...after that, it goes into the realm of "the worst things you can think of" The well may come completely apart as the inner liners fail. There is still a very long drill string in the well, that could literally come flying out...as I said...all the worst things you can think of are a possibility, but the very least damaging outcome as bad as it is, is that we are stuck with a wide open gusher blowing out 150,000 barrels a day of raw oil or more. There isn't any "cap dome" or any other suck fixer device on earth that exists or could be built that will stop it from gushing out and doing more and more damage to the gulf. While at the same time also doing more damage to the well, making the chance of halting it with a kill from the bottom up less and less likely to work, which as it stands now?....is the only real chance we have left to stop it all.

It's a race now...a race to drill the relief wells and take our last chance at killing this monster before the whole weakened, wore out, blown out, leaking and failing system gives up it's last gasp in a horrific crescendo.

We are not even 2 months into it, barely half way by even optimistic estimates. The damage done by the leaked oil now is virtually immeasurable already and it will not get better, it can only get worse. No matter how much they can collect, there will still be thousands and thousands of gallons leaking out every minute, every hour of every day. We have 2 months left before the relief wells are even near in position and set up to take a kill shot and that is being optimistic as I said.

Over the next 2 months the mechanical situation also cannot improve, it can only get worse, getting better is an impossibility. While they may make some gains on collecting the leaked oil, the structural situation cannot heal itself. It will continue to erode and flow out more oil and eventually the inevitable collapse which cannot be stopped will happen. It is only a simple matter of who can "get there first"...us or the well.

We can only hope the race against that eventuality is one we can win, but my assessment I am sad to say is that we will not.

The system will collapse or fail substantially before we reach the finish line ahead of the well and the worst is yet to come.

Sorry to bring you that news, I know it is grim, but that is the way I see it....I sincerely hope I am wrong.

We need to prepare for the possibility of this blow out sending more oil into the gulf per week then what we already have now, because that is what a collapse of the system will cause. All the collection efforts that have captured oil will be erased in short order. The magnitude of this disaster will increase exponentially by the time we can do anything to halt it and our odds of actually even being able to halt it will go down.

The magnitude and impact of this disaster will eclipse anything we have known in our life times if the worst or even near worst happens...

We are seeing the puny forces of man vs the awesome forces of nature. We are going to need some luck and a lot of effort to win... and if nature decides we ought to lose, we will....

Reference materials:

On April 1, a job log written by a Halliburton employee, Marvin Volek, warns that BP’s use of cement “was against our best practices.”

An April 18 internal Halliburton memorandum indicates that Halliburton again warned BP about its practices, this time saying that a “severe” gas flow problem would occur if the casings were not centered more carefully.

Around that same time, a BP document shows, company officials chose a type of casing with a greater risk of collapsing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/us/06rig.html?pagewanted=1&sq=at_issue_in_gulf&st=cse&scp=1

Mark Hafle, the BP drilling engineer who wrote plans for well casings and cement seals on the Deepwater Horizon's well, testified that the well had lost thousands of barrels of mud at the bottom. But he said models run onshore showed alterations to the cement program would resolve the issues, and when asked if a cement failure allowed the well to "flow" gas and oil, he wouldn't capitulate.

Hafle said he made several changes to casing designs in the last few days before the well blew, including the addition of the two casing liners that weren't part of the original well design because of problems where the earthen sides of the well were "ballooning." He also worked with Halliburton engineers to design a plan for sealing the well casings with cement.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/hearings_bp_cementing_engineer.html

Graphic of Fail

Casing Joint

Casing

Kill may take until Christmas

BP Used Riskier Method to Seal Well Before Blast

BP memo test results

Investigation results

The information from BP identifies several new warning signs of problems. According to BP there were three flow indicators from the well before the explosion.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/documents/20100525/Memo.BP.Internal.Investigation.pdf

BP, what we know ...

What could have happened

  1. Before or during the cement job, an influx of hydrocarbon enters the wellbore.

  2. Influx is circulated during cement job to wellhead and BOP.

  3. 9-7/8” casing hanger packoff set and positively tested to 6500 psi.

  4. After 16.5 hours waiting on cement, a negative test performed on wellbore below BOP. (~ 1400 psi differential pressure on 9-7/8” casing hanger packoff and ~ 2350 psi on double valve float collar)

  5. Packoff leaks allowing hydrocarbon to enter wellbore below BOP. 1400 psi shut in pressure observed on drill pipe (no flow or pressure observed on kill line)

  6. Hydrocarbon below BOP is unknowingly circulated to surface while finishing displacing the riser.

  7. As hydrocarbon rises to surface, gas break out of solution further reduces hydrostatic pressure in well. Well begin to flow, BOPs and Emergency Disconnect System (EDS) activated but failed.

  8. Packoff continues to leak allowing further influx from bottom.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/documents/20100512/BP-What.Could.Have.Happened.pdf

Confidential

T/A daily log 4-20

http://energycommerce.house.gov/documents/20100512/TRO-Daily.Drilling.Re...

Cement plug 12,150 ft SCMT logging tool SCMT (Slim Cement Mapping Tool) Schlumberger Partial CBL done.

Schlum CBL tools

Major concerns, well control, bop test.

Energy & commerce links to docs.

Well head on sea floor

Well head on deck of ship

BP's youtube propoganda page, a lot of rarely seen vids here....FWIW

http://www.youtube.com/user/DeepwaterHorizonJIC

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1097505/pg1


I used to cover the energy business (oil, gas and alternative) here in Texas, and the few experts in the oil field -- including geologists, chemists, etc. -- able or willing to even speak of this BP event told me early on that it is likely the entire reserve will bleed out. Unfortunately none of them could say with any certainty just how much oil is in the reserve in question because, for one thing, the oil industry and secrecy have always been synonymous. According to BP data from about five years ago, there are four separate reservoirs containing a total of 2.5 billion barrels (barrels not gallons). One of the reservoirs has 1.5 billion barrels. I saw an earlier post here quoting an Anadarko Petroleum report which set the total amount at 2.3 billion barrels. One New York Times article put it at 2 billion barrels.

If the BP data correctly or honestly identified four separate reservoirs then a bleed-out might gush less than 2 to 2.5 billion barrels unless the walls -- as it were -- fracture or partially collapse. I am hearing the same dark rumors which suggest fracturing and a complete bleed-out are already underway. Rumors also suggest a massive collapse of the Gulf floor itself is in the making. They are just rumors but it is time for geologists or related experts to end their deafening silence and speak to these possibilities.

All oilmen lie about everything. The stories one hears about the extent to which they will protect themselves are all understatements. BP employees are already taking The Fifth before grand juries, and attorneys are laying a path for company executives to make a run for it.

8 posted on 06/15/2010 6:36:59 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: USALiberty
Does he have an explanation for why he's turned down needed foreign help?

Other than reality, which is wanting to benefit politically from the spill?
9 posted on 06/15/2010 6:37:04 PM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: USALiberty

Agree.

FedGov’s (FEMA’s) job to protect the shoreline and do their best to contain the spill.

BP’s job to plug the hole.


10 posted on 06/15/2010 6:37:18 PM PDT by Rio (Plug the hole, Daddy!)
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To: USALiberty

Obama is a disaster, BP is a disgrace. The two are not mutually exclusive notions.


11 posted on 06/15/2010 6:37:24 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: USALiberty








12 posted on 06/15/2010 6:37:47 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

:(

BUMP


13 posted on 06/15/2010 6:40:05 PM PDT by happinesswithoutpeace (1.416785(71) x 10^32 You are receiving this broadcast as a dream)
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To: what's up

I wouldn’t put it past ELF, but I’m re-reading Crichton’s `State of Fear.’
They would if they could, those murderous bass-terds.


14 posted on 06/15/2010 6:41:17 PM PDT by tumblindice
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To: Bryan24
95% plus of the blame for this can be layed at BP managements’ feet.

For the spill, perhaps. The consequences of the lame response are "all about the O."

15 posted on 06/15/2010 6:43:07 PM PDT by outofstyle (Anti-socialist)
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To: USALiberty

HP Lovecraft on the oil spill:
“I say to you againe, doe not call up Any that you can not put downe; by the Which I meane, Any that can in Turne call up somewhat against you, whereby your Powerfullest Devices may not be of use. Ask of the Lesser, lest the Greater shall not wish to Answer, and shall commande more than you.”


16 posted on 06/15/2010 6:44:51 PM PDT by rotstan
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To: Star Traveler

bookmark, again.


17 posted on 06/15/2010 6:46:26 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: Star Traveler

Pay the cleanup people by the ounce instead of by the hour.


18 posted on 06/15/2010 7:00:03 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: USALiberty

Right...


19 posted on 06/15/2010 7:05:43 PM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: USALiberty

Think Chernobyl people.


20 posted on 06/15/2010 7:14:29 PM PDT by popsmoke
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To: USALiberty
Convient how all/most the rig workers died..
Wonder if the rig accident was ENGINEERED?...
You know............. NOT an accident..

Funny how it happened just as the Cap and Trade thing was due to surface...
AND..... many roadblocks were put in the way of the cleanup... and damage control..

Very suspicious...

21 posted on 06/15/2010 7:14:58 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: hosepipe
NAH!.. the democrats would never seek to trash the coasts of many red states would they?...
And put many republicans out of work and out of business?..
NAH!..
22 posted on 06/15/2010 7:19:35 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: what's up
I place the blame at the feet of the green movement.

If it wasn't for them, drilling would be taking place in shallower waters and beaches where mishaps could be more easily contained.

So I take it you support the ban on future deep water drilling because its too dangerous?

23 posted on 06/15/2010 7:23:42 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: Bryan24

Did you miss that MMS allowed them to do that by missing 16 inspections?


24 posted on 06/15/2010 7:42:25 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba
Did you miss that MMS allowed them to do that by missing 16 inspections?

During the time period that the 16 inspections were missed, are you aware of how many inspections were made?

25 posted on 06/15/2010 7:45:17 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: Doe Eyes

Does anyone know about George Soros investing in oil drilling off the coast of Brazil? Coincidence???


26 posted on 06/15/2010 8:09:39 PM PDT by mommyq
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To: mommyq

Soros and Brazilian oil. Rigs are leaving the gulf and heading for Brazil as we speak. Coincidence?

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/19/obama-soros-petrobras-brazil-offshore-drilling-double-standards/


27 posted on 06/15/2010 8:15:38 PM PDT by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: Oceander

28 posted on 06/15/2010 8:18:01 PM PDT by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: Doe Eyes

Yes I am.


29 posted on 06/15/2010 8:20:17 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba
Yes I am.

So how many times was the Deepwater Horizon inspected?

30 posted on 06/15/2010 8:43:21 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: mommyq
Does anyone know about George Soros investing in oil drilling off the coast of Brazil? Coincidence???

Coincidence in what way?

I am also investing in the same Brazilian company Soros is (though to a smaller extent).

31 posted on 06/15/2010 8:47:25 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: Star Traveler

That post is ridiculous and the author doesn’t have a clue what he is talking about. Notice how there is no proof of anything he or she says? For instance there is no such thing as “normal well” with a psi of 1500 psi. There is no such thing as a “normal well”, each one is different.

70,000 psi at the depth of 18,000 ft? That would make surface pressure what about 65,000 psi? remember they drilled and controlled the pressure hydro-statically for more than 24 hours and they are drilling 2 more wells right now into the same formation.

I didn’t bother looking up Benzine or Metholine Chloride, but my basic H2S orientation taught me that the safe working limit of H2S is 10 parts per million for 8 hours a day. So 1200 parts per billion being dispersed 5,000 feet below the sea probably isn’t going to do much harm to anything.

I’m sure someone with more time could pick apart that ridiculous post even further. It is bogus and far from grounded in fact and you should be quite wary of reposting it.


32 posted on 06/15/2010 9:02:27 PM PDT by rwh (What great fortune it is for those in power that the people do not think!)
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To: rwh
You were saying ...

That post is ridiculous and the author doesn’t have a clue what he is talking about.

It comes from the site "Oildrum" where the industry professionals get together and talk about industry issues. It's been quoted several times by other FReepers on several different threads.

I would rather take the word of industry professionals who are working in the field and discussing this issue among themselves, than many of the posters here on Free Republic ... :-)

33 posted on 06/15/2010 10:23:40 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: USALiberty
I don't agree. There is evidence that BP cut corners in the drilling of the well.
For a disaster such as this, a real leader would have pulled all available resources to contain the leak immediately (not go golfing, then come out with an address near 60 days later). A real leader would have coordinated with BP to stop things from spreading, but would be honest and let them know that once the immediate danger was maintained, that there would be a price to pay.

Instead, we have a leader whose Chief of Staff lives rent free courtesy of BP, who takes a large amount of campaign contributions from same company, and who uses a televised address to use the event (after doing nothing for 60 days) to pitch legislation that would benefit a carbon exchange that friends of his would benefit from.

Criminal....

34 posted on 06/15/2010 10:30:13 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: hosepipe
"Convient how all/most the rig workers died.."

There were 126 workers on the Deepwater Horizon when it exploded, of that number there were 11 fatalities.

35 posted on 06/16/2010 1:46:39 AM PDT by Mila
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To: Doe Eyes

Once a month but as I’ve read amny of the 16 missed ones were during the past 2 years. So yes Obama’s MMS was very culpable in this spill.


36 posted on 06/16/2010 11:36:33 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba
Once a month but as I’ve read amny of the 16 missed ones were during the past 2 years. So yes Obama’s MMS was very culpable in this spill.

You read wrong. In total, the rig missed 16 inspections since January 2005. I think that's more like 16 missed out of 65 required (up to April 2010).

37 posted on 06/16/2010 6:40:54 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: Star Traveler

Well I am a completions engineer with Baker Atlas and have been in the industry for the last 5 years. If you wish to post nonsense which was obviously created to stir up emotions of those who do not take the time to actually research how an oil well is drilled and completed I guess you are free to do so.


38 posted on 06/17/2010 6:14:58 AM PDT by rwh (What great fortune it is for those in power that the people do not think!)
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To: Star Traveler

Your source is Freeper The Comedian,

Freeper Wonder Warthog who has a degree in Chemistry has issues with the post also see here

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2533938/posts?page=246#238


39 posted on 06/17/2010 6:27:38 AM PDT by rwh (What great fortune it is for those in power that the people do not think!)
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To: Star Traveler

Corexit is a 1/1 MSDS. Less than 5% volatile.

I have seen this stuff about corexit a number of times now...

People read an MSDS and get all scared over standard industry language.

Put up the “highly toxic” proof.


40 posted on 06/17/2010 6:27:50 AM PDT by EBH (Our First Right...."it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,")
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To: EBH
LOL ... I can see you've got your "head in the sand" ... is it fun down there? ... :-)

At least, the U.S. EPA ordered BP to discontinue the use of Corexit already (May 19th, but no telling how much BP dumped on us before then... yeeooow!), because they know about the toxicity of it. In addition, its use in the U.K. has been banned for quite a while now. Apparently they took action on its toxicity before we did ... hoo-boy!

Here is a synopsis of a paper from the International Oil Spill Conference ...

The IOSC is ... the preeminent gathering of oil spill response experts from around the world!

The International Oil Spill Conference contributes to and enables a culture of preparedness within the oil spill response community, the broader field of incident management, and society as a whole.

It provides a forum for professionals from the international community, the private sector, government, and non-governmental organizations to highlight and discuss innovations and best practices across the spectrum of prevention, preparedness, response and restoration.




Anita George-Ares and James R. Clark
Exxon Biomedical Sciences, Inc.
Mettlers Rd., CN 2350
East Millstone, New Jersey 08875-2350

A greater danger involving Corexit 9500, and as outlined by Russian scientists in this report, is that with its 2.61ppm toxicity level, and when combined with the heating Gulf of Mexico waters, its molecules will be able to “phase transition” from their present liquid to a gaseous state allowing them to be absorbed into clouds and allowing their release as “toxic rain” upon all of Eastern North America.

Even worse, should a Katrina like tropical hurricane form in the Gulf of Mexico while tens of millions of gallons of Corexit 9500 are sitting on, or near, its surface the resulting “toxic rain” falling upon the North American continent could “theoretically” destroy all microbial life to any depth it reaches resulting in an “unimaginable environmental catastrophe” destroying all life forms from the “bottom of the evolutionary chart to the top”.

Note: For molecules of a liquid to evaporate, they must be located near the surface, be moving in the proper direction, and have sufficient kinetic energy to overcome liquid-phase intermolecular forces. Only a small proportion of the molecules meet these criteria, so the rate of evaporation is limited. Since the kinetic energy of a molecule is proportional to its temperature, evaporation proceeds more quickly at higher temperatures.

The PDF of Acute Aquatic Toxicity of Three Corexit Products: An Overview can be found here: www.iosc.org ...



It's people like you who likes to gamble with people's lives and get them ill and pollute the environment and destroy animals and habitat... we should put you in a vat of Corexit for some "skin treatment" for you ... LOL ...

41 posted on 06/17/2010 8:16:00 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Doe Eyes; chris_bdba
You were saying ...

You read wrong. In total, the rig missed 16 inspections since January 2005. I think that's more like 16 missed out of 65 required (up to April 2010).

Hoo-boy! The MMS is an "agency out of control" -- no matter whether during the Bush Administration or the Obama Administration ... yikes!

42 posted on 06/17/2010 8:18:27 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: rwh
You were saying ...

Your source is Freeper The Comedian,

And we're supposed to take seriously "Wonder Warthog"? ... ROTFLMAO ...


Freeper Wonder Warthog who has a degree in Chemistry has issues with the post also see here ...

And "see here" for the response ... :-)


43 posted on 06/17/2010 8:28:14 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: rwh

What is Corexit?

Corexit is a line of oil dispersants or solvents, originally developed by Exxon and now manufactured by Nalco Holding Company (NHC) of Naperville, IL. Interestingly, NHC is associated with Exxon and British Petroleum (BP) — the latter is the same company that insists on using Corexit.  

An oil dispersant is basically a detergent, like your diswashing detergent. It disperses or breaks up the oil film into small droplets that intermix with seawater.

There are at least four different formulations of Corexit:

Corexit EC9500A is mainly comprised of hydrotreated light petroleum distillates, propylene glycol and a proprietary organic sulfonic acid salt. Propylene glycol is a chemical commonly used as a solvent or moisturizer in pharmaceuticals and cosmetics. An organic sulfonic acid salt is a synthetic chemical detergent, such as that used in laundry detergents, which acts as a surfactant to emulsify oil and allow its dispersion into water. 

A variant of Corexit was used in the 1989 Exxon Valdez disaster in Alaska. In the present Deepwater Horizon oil spill, BP is using unprecedentedly large quantities of Corexit EC9500A and Corexit EC9527A, applying 800,000 gallons total, but more accurate estimates run as high as 1,000,000 gallons underwater.

Is Corexit Effective?

Corexit 9500 was 54.7% effective and Corexit EC9527A was 63.4% effective in handling Louisiana crude oil. Corexit is not a very efficient oil dispersant; there are others that are better. (More below)

Is Corexit Safe to Use?

The short answer is “No!” Corexit is highly toxic to humans as well as marine life.

The federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has identified the 2-butoxyethanol in Corexit to be a causal agent in the health problems experienced by cleanup workers after the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill of respiratory, nervous system, liver, kidney and blood disorders.

According to the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), Corexit 9500‘s “potential human bazard is: High.” It can cause central nervous system depression; nausea; unconsciousness;  liver, kidney damage; and red blood cell hemolysis with repeated or prolonged exposure through inhalation or ingestion. 

Here is what the MSDS for Corexit EC9500A says about Accidental Release Measures:

PERSONAL PRECAUTIONS :
Restrict access to area as appropriate until clean-up operations are complete. Ensure clean-up is conducted by trained personnel only. Ventilate spill area if possible. Do not touch spilled material. Remove sources of ignition.

Stop or reduce any leaks if it is safe to do so. Have emergency equipment (for fires, spills, leaks, etc.) readily available. Use personal protective equipment recommended in Section 8 (Exposure Controls/Personal Protection). Notify appropriate government, occupational health and safety and environmental authorities.

RESPIRATORY PROTECTION :
If significant mists, vapors or aerosols are generated an approved respirator is recommended. An organic vapor cartridge with dust/mist prefilter or supplied air may be used. In event of emergency or planned entry into unknown concentrations a positive pressure, full-facepiece SCBA should be used. If respiratory protection is required, institute a complete respiratory protection program including selection, fit testing, training, maintenance and inspection.

HAND PROTECTION :
Nitrile gloves, Viton# gloves, Polyvinyl alcohol gloves

SKIN PROTECTION :
Wear impervious apron and boots.

EYE PROTECTION :
Wear chemical splash goggles.

HYGIENE RECOMMENDATIONS :
Keep an eye wash fountain available. Keep a safety shower available. If clothing is contaminated, remove clothing and thoroughly wash the affected area. Launder contaminated clothing before reuse.

On May 19, 2010 the EPA gave BP 24 hours to choose less toxic alternatives to Corexit, selected from the list of EPA-approved dispersants on the National Contingency Plan Product Schedule. BP was to begin applying the less toxic dispersants within 72 hours of EPA approval of their choices, but BP refused to change from Corexit, citing safety and availability concerns with alternatives.

According to the EPA, Corexit is more toxic than dispersants made by several competitors and less effective in handling southern Louisiana crude. Not only is Corexit toxic to human and marine life, it helps keep spilled oil submerged. The quantities used in the Gulf will create unprecedented underwater damage to organisms.

There are claims that Corexit is one of the most poisonous dispersants ever developed, that it is 4 times more toxic than crude oil, and 20 times more toxic than other dispersants, but only half as effective.

Is there a better alternative than Corexit?

There is an oil dispersant called Dispersit, manufactured by Polychem, a division of U.S. Polychemical Corporation. Dispersit is a much less harmful water-based product, with about one third of the toxicity that Corexit 9500 presents. Corexit 9500 is a harsh petroleum-based solvent which is dangerous to people and sea life. Dispersit’s human health effect is “slight to none.” Dispersit is also on the EPA’s approved list of dispersants.

Dispersit is also more effective than Corexit. Dispersit has a demonstrated effectiveness of 100% on the lighter South Louisiana crude, and 40% on Pruhoe Bay’s heavier crude. Exxon’s Corexit 9500 is just 55% effective on SL and 55% effective on PB. On an average, Dispersit is 70% effective, and may prove 100% effective, while Corexit 9500 is an average of 50% effective, with a maximum effective use of just 55%.

Bruce Gebhardt at Polychem Marine Products was asked if Dispersit was being used in the Gulf Oil Spill situation. “Very little,” he replied.  When asked why, the impression was that the government had used Corexit 9500 in the past, and was going with what they know — no matter how dangerous that might prove to be.

Why does BP insist on using the highly toxic, less effective Corexit?

Why is Corexit 9500 is being used at all, when the water-based Dispersit is available, markedly more effective and less toxic? Follow the money.

Recall that earlier I had said that Corexit is manufactured by Nalco Holding Company (NHC), which is associated with BP. Rodney F. Chase, who sits on the board of Nalco, was also a BP board member. The likelihood that he still holds shares in both companies is very high. In fact, it was reported on May 3, 2010, that BP has acquired Nalco Holding’s entire inventory of its Corexit oil dispersant! Not surprisingly, NHC’s stock took a sharp jump, up more than 18% at its highest point of the day when it was announced that their product is the one BP will use in the Gulf. 

But wait! It gets even better! Peter Sutherland, the Chairman of Goldman Sachs International, was also, until last year, the Chairman of BP! The same Goldman Sachs that sold $250 million of its BP stock right before the oil rig explosion/spill. Conclusion

There are experts who think that oil dispersants of whatever variety shouldn’t even be used in the Gulf.

Dispersing the oil neither eliminates it nor decreases its toxicity. All dispersants do is to break the oil into small particles, where it becomes less visible. But the oil’s still there, spewing toxicity at an even greater rate (due to higher surface area), except now it’s pretty much impossible to skim or trap or vacuum or even soak up the oil particles at the shoreline because most of it will never make it to the shoreline.  Instead, the toxic crude oil AND the dispersant will be spread all over the ocean’s waters. 

In effect, to “disperse” the oil means it will NEVER be cleaned up. It will just stay out there, polluting and poisoning the ocean and marine life, including the fish, shrimp, mollusk that we humans consume as food. 

And if using oil dispersants is unwise, it is approaching madness to use a dispersant as toxic as Corexit. Add to the insane formula the fact the Corexit isn’t even a very effective dispersant, and we’re looking at avarice and mendacity on the part of BP at the level of true EVIL. As for the Obama administration, any government that tolerates such evil is minimally incompetent and maximally complicit in evil.

More alarming still is the opinion in some quarters that when the toxic Corexit 9500 is combined with the warm waters of the Gulf, much of it will transition into a gaseous state that will be absorbed into clouds, to be released as toxic rain upon all of the Eastern United States.

May God help us!

44 posted on 06/17/2010 8:45:58 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: USALiberty

less of the fraud that is FEMA’s trademark, such as when the agency distributed $31 million to 13,000 Miami-Dade residents in Florida following Hurricane Frances, even though Dade County experienced no hurricane conditions
http://mises.org/daily/1908 Could FEMA oversee BP claims process? As BP says it’s working to send out a second round of claims checks to impacted families, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano tells Eyewitness News she plans on dispatching a top FEMA official to Louisiana to make sure BP improves the process.

But in the wake of FEMA’s highly criticized performance in paying out claims post Katrina, some wonder what will be different.

“FEMA is a classic government bureaucracy it moves very, very slowly,” said Clancy DuBos, Eyewitness News Political Analyst and Gambit political columnist. “Bringing in FEMA to speed things up with oil spill claims process just seems counter intuitive.”

“The first time for the claims process….I had to wait in line for over 4 hours to try to get our money,” said Creppel.

“We don’t need time, we need relief right away,” said Terrebonne.

She’s worried about yet another layer of bureaucracy. FEMA’s help would be a hindrance, she says, to her and her children.

“Only now people from [Hurricane] Katrina are getting their money and this is ever since 2005,” said Terrebonne. “I just think it’s ridiculous.”

Area leaders call FEMA’s involvement unbelievable.

“There’s only one word that makes my blood pressure go up more than FEMA, and that’s BP,” said Plaquemines Parish president Billy Nungesser.
http://www.wwltv.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/BP-Claims-Process-96194449.html House panel: FEMA unready to help the disabled in a disaster
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/15/1682490/house-panel-fema-unready-to-help.html

10 ways MMS makes FEMA look good http://www.grist.org/article/2010-05-18-10-ways-mms-makes-fema-look-good


45 posted on 06/17/2010 9:10:55 AM PDT by anglian
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To: USALiberty
Have you noticed that even MEXICO is doing a better job of keeping the oil off its shores? Hmmmm? The state-controlled media isn't even TRYING to explain that!

I know! No one talks about how the Mexicans have brilliantly engineered the currents in the Gulf of Mexico to carry the oil to the east rather than to the west! I guess that's why they got naming rights to it.

46 posted on 06/17/2010 9:27:48 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Star Traveler

And did you see warthogs reply warthog? Ignorance is bliss I guess. Facts don’t matter.


47 posted on 06/17/2010 7:59:30 PM PDT by rwh (What great fortune it is for those in power that the people do not think!)
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