Who Died And Made BP King Of The Gulf Of Mexico? (Prepare To Get Really Angry!)

The Economic Collapse Blog ^ | June 18, 2010 | Staff

[jimt]

All you have to do is read the MSDS for the stuff.

Bad news indeed.

Here's the MSDS for cast iron.

http://www.petersonsteel.com/beta/20044261327360.MSDS%20CAST%20IRON.pdf?LibraryPage=2&document=20044261327360.MSDS+CAST+IRON.pdf

Bad news indeed. I hope you're ready to handle all the extreme dangers next time you cook.

Of course, if you REALLY want scary, try a coated pan ! Or, heaven forbid, PAM !

[OldDeckHand]

Of course, if you REALLY want scary, try a coated pan ! Or, heaven forbid, PAM !"

HAHAHA.

As an aside, most people don't realize that Teflon was actually invented entirely by accident. I don't remember the whole story, but it had something to do with a cooling liquid unintentionally coating the inside of its storage container. That was in the 30's, and some years later it's first real industrial application came when it was used in the development of the first atom bomb.

I believe that even today, it remains as one of the most "slippery" substances known to man. And yes, if you set it on fire, it's toxic as hell.

[Cyber Liberty]

Obama also freed up a bunch of drilling rigs for Brazil to use. My understanding is the oil companies have already started evacuating the rigs Obama shut down with his moratorium.

[UCANSEE2]

Dissolved solids do not evaporate.

And yet, both the dispersant and the oil are liquids.

[OldDeckHand]

"And yet, both the dispersant and the oil are liquids. "

Chocolate syrup is a liquid. Does chocolate syrup evaporate? If we had a lake full of chocolate syrup, would it rain chocolate?

Please, this is incredibly elementary - literally elementary school - basic science. Please don't tell me you don't understand the basic principles of evaporation.

[UCANSEE2]

The components of COREXIT 9500 and 9527 are:

CAS Registry Number Chemical Name
57-55-6

1,2-Propanediol
111-76-2

Ethanol, 2-butoxy-*
577-11-7

Butanedioic acid, 2-sulfo-, 1,4-bis(2-ethylhexyl) ester, sodium salt (1:1)
1338-43-8

Sorbitan, mono-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate
9005-65-6

Sorbitan, mono-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate, poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) derivs.
9005-70-3

Sorbitan, tri-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate, poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) derivs
29911-28-2

2-Propanol, 1-(2-butoxy-1-methylethoxy)-
64742-47-8

Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light

*Note: This chemical component (Ethanol, 2-butoxy-) is not included in the composition of COREXIT 9500.

(but is in COREXIT 9527)

[UCANSEE2]

Chocolate syrup is a liquid. Does chocolate syrup evaporate?

Since chocolate is a solid (at room temperature), much of it just turns to a hard solid mass.

But, it only does so because the liquids used in making it evaporate.

Your blood does the same thing.

However, your blood and chocolate do not contain these chemicals: 1,2-Propanediol 111-76-2
Ethanol, 2-butoxy-* 577-11-7
Butanedioic acid, 2-sulfo-, 1,4-bis(2-ethylhexyl) ester, sodium salt (1:1) 1338-43-8
Sorbitan, mono-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate 9005-65-6
Sorbitan, mono-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate, poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) derivs. 9005-70-3
Sorbitan, tri-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate, poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) derivs 29911-28-2
2-Propanol, 1-(2-butoxy-1-methylethoxy)- 64742-47-8
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light

[UCANSEE2]

Dissolved solids do not evaporate.

But what they are dissolved IN, does EVAPORATE.

Don't tell me you don't understand that 'process'.

Now, which of the chemicals in COREXIT is a solid?

[UCANSEE2]

Crops fail for a lot of reasons.

Yes. But usually it is restricted to a certain type of crop, or due to lack of pesticides.

Watch the video at the link and tell us what could cause the type of damage seen, and why is it affecting ALL crops, and killing BIRDS too?

[John S Mosby]

I think a brief explanation of a colloidal suspension or emulsion would be helpful to those here who do not understand that two liquids are miscible (that’s chemistry for the mix into each other). An example of an emulsion is milk, a liquid with fat, water, sugars, hormones, casein protein as well as dissolved vitamins and minerals. The fat is emulsified into the water solution, that is, the fat is made able to be mixed into the water by the action of an emulsant. The dispersant works in a similar manner making smaller particles of crude oil able to be held in solution in small globules. When the water evaporates away you are left with a mass of various solids. In the case of this crude the “solids” are food for bacteria that target these solids.

[UCANSEE2]

Acid rain is acidic because of gases

And would you guarantee that the large amount of petroleum, and the methane GAS that is escaping the well, along with the dispersant as it breaks down, cannot evaporate into the atmosphere and 'come down with the rain' like the gases you mention?

I'm not asking you to judge whether they are what is causing this crop damage, but whether the chemicals (as gases) from the sources mentioned could evaporate and come back down with the rain.

[OldDeckHand]

"Now, which of the chemicals in COREXIT is a solid? "

I have no idea, nor is it really relevant. BUT, you are starting to understanding. There are clearly compounds in COREXIT that are dissolved solids. Since we've established that dissolved solids don't evaporate, that means COREXIT CANNOT evaporate.

Are there compounds present in COREXIT that might evaporate? Sure. Let's take one of the compounds - Ethanol. Ethanol is volatile as hell. What does that mean? It means it easily vaporizes. But, does vaporized ethanol pose any danger to the environment, or to plants some 700 miles away? Not on your life. We lose more volatile chemicals into the atmosphere from people pumping their gas in the Southeast each hour, than from ALL the COREXIT used since this spill began.

In fact, during mid-day summer months, large cities all across the south ask people to avoid filling up their gas tanks because of the volatility of gas and the atmospheric phenomenon it contributes to called smog.

To posit that people and plants face a danger because of the evaporation of oil dispersant introduced into the Gulf of Mexico and evaporating is somehow greater than the volatility of the gas those people pump into their cars each hour, is patently absurd.

[OldDeckHand]

"And would you guarantee that the large amount of petroleum, and the methane GAS that is escaping the well, along with the dispersant as it breaks down, cannot evaporate into the atmosphere and 'come down with the rain' like the gases you mention?"

The dispersant isn't breaking down all the hydrocarbons escaping the well, just the oil. The various hydrocarbons are separating from each other themselves. Even without the application of dispersant, the natural gas - and by some estimates, that accounts for at least half of the volume of material escaping the well head - will eventually rise to the surface and immediately evaporate because natural gas is just that - a gas in its natural state. The dispersants do nothing to hasten this process.

Now, if you were to ask me if the non-oil hydrocarbons, many of which have a high natural volatility - pose an environmental risk and could be carried inland by air currents and deposited on land mixed with rain water, the answer to that is yes. I would guess - although I'm no expert in the field - that because we've had other huge leaks, both in ocean and surface wells - if such atmospheric contamination posed a threat to plant-life, we would have already been aware of such a phenomenon, at least any large scale phenomenon.

[wardaddy]

said to see Freepers like this..good post

[UCANSEE2]

Thanks for providing some clarification for those who do not have a chemistry/physics background.

When the water evaporates away you are left with a mass of various solids. In the case of this crude the “solids” are food for bacteria that target these solids.

Unfortunately, WATER is not the only 'liquid' or 'gas' involved that 'evaporates'. WATER is the least of the liquids or gases that 'evaporate' as WATER and OIL don't even mix very well, or for very long.

There's also an extremely huge amount of water under the surface of the GOM, and the OIL that is 'suspended in solution' won't be losing that liquid to evaporation unless the SUN GOES NOVA.

Now the GAS, methane, rises right to the surface, dispersant or not. The OIL on the surface of the ocean contains aromatic hydrocarbons that DO EVAPORATE under the glare of the Sun. It this were not so, then the process of REFINING OIL using HEAT to get GASOLINE would be impossible.

So.... I will still defend my position that the OIL, and the GAS, and the DISPERSANT are releasing certain chemicals into the atmosphere that could (and may already have ) cause(d) considerable damage, and that long term exposure to them (like over 4 hours, per the EPA and BP) is harmful to humans, plants, and animals.

These chemicals MAY or MAY NOT come back down with rain, MAY or MAY NOT have caused the crop damage.

The only TRUTH is that we don't know yet.

No one has found any other explanation for the crop damage yet, so.... what is causing it?

[UCANSEE2]

There are clearly compounds in COREXIT that are dissolved solids.

But NOT ALL.

Since we've established that dissolved solids don't evaporate, that means COREXIT CANNOT evaporate.

That's like saying that since some people have auto accidents frequently, all people have auto accidents frequently.

It's convenient to claim IF A THEN B, when you leave the details out of A which would negate your conclusion.

Can the components of COREXIT that are fluids or gas evaporate?

If COREXIT is completely a solid, how do they pour it out of a drum, and pump it through a hose?

[OldDeckHand]

"I will still defend my position that the OIL, and the GAS, and the DISPERSANT are releasing certain chemicals into the atmosphere that could (and may already have ) cause(d) considerable damage, and that long term exposure to them (like over 4 hours, per the EPA and BP) is harmful to humans, plants, and animals."

Remember, the oil will break down on its own absent the application of any dispersant. The dispersant just hastens the natural process. With or without it, all the volatile chemicals contained in the oil are going to escape into the atmosphere, if they themselves aren't degraded before then.

[UCANSEE2]

"Now, which of the chemicals in COREXIT is a solid? "

I have no idea, nor is it really relevant.

Which kind of throws your whole argument into the trash receptacle.

Especially since you go on to argue that COREXIT is made up only of solids, and cannot have any 'liquid' or 'gas' evaporate from it when exposed to the elements.

Let me help you. The FIRST ITEM on the LIST of INGREDIENTS is the highest percentage.

"Propylene glycol, also called 1,2-propanediol or propane-1,2-diol, is an organic compound (a diol or double alcohol) with formula C3H8O2 or HO-CH2-CHOH-CH3. It is a colorless, nearly odorless, clear, viscous liquid

[UCANSEE2]

If we had a lake full of chocolate syrup, would it rain chocolate?

Even if it did, would chocolate kill birds and plants and cause skin irritation in humans, and lung irritation?

[OldDeckHand]

"Can the components of COREXIT that are fluids or gas evaporate? "

I'm sure some can. I already pointed out that ethanol, one of the chemical compounds found in COREXIT is highly volatile, and would evaporate quickly once it reached the surface of the water.

But, you have to account for relative volume. As I said, whatever volatile chemicals escape into the atmosphere from the application of dispersant, pale in comparison to the volatile (and hazardous) chemicals that escape into the air from people putting fuel in their cars each hour.

Simply stated, the additional volatile chemicals introduced into the atmosphere from COREXIT is less than negligible compared to what's introduced during any other normal day in that part of the country.