Troop trains may connect A. P. Hill, Fort Lee

The Free Lance-Star ^ | 6/19/2010 | KELLY HANNON

[Willie Green]

Fort Lee considers moving Army soldiers by train to Fort A. P. Hill in Caroline County

Hearkening back to an earlier era of military transport, officials at Fort Lee in Virginia are considering moving Army soldiers back and forth to field training at Fort A.P. Hill in Caroline by train.

The military train, if it launches, would carry 800 to 1,100 Army soldiers from Fort Lee to a drop-off point in Milford. Local buses would be arranged to carry soldiers the approximate three miles between Milford and Fort A.P. Hill.

After training for five days, a southbound train would carry the 800 to 1,100 soldiers back to Fort Lee, said Stuart Gregory, executive officer, deputy to the commanding general at Fort Lee.

The train would run an estimated 37 to 40 weeks in a year, Gregory said.

Concern over the potential for crashes on Interstate 95 led the Army to consider moving soldiers by train.

"The biggest reason is safety," Gregory said.

Within the past three years, two motor vehicle crashes involved soldiers on their way to training at Fort A.P. Hill, Gregory said. One was a minor incident, but the other crash hospitalized several soldiers, he said.

Currently, Fort Lee charters several-dozen buses to carry soldiers to training at Fort A.P. Hill.

But with more soldiers being shifted to Fort Lee as part of the federal Base Realignment and Closure Commission process, the number of soldiers that need to attend training at Fort A.P. Hill from Fort Lee will grow, Gregory said.

"All of that plays into increasing the odds of something bad happening," Gregory said.

The course at Fort A.P. Hill is called logistics warrior training, and is required for soldiers regardless of their position in the Army, said Matthew Montgomery, Fort Lee spokesman.

Fort Lee is located south of Richmond, near Petersburg. It has a rail spur on the post, and it currently receives materials by freight.

Fort Lee officials have been holding early discussions with Amtrak, Virginia Railway Express and the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation about ways to obtain train equipment. Fort Lee recently received Army approval to operate a train.

The last time Fort Lee officials believe trains were actively used to transport soldiers was in the 1960s, Gregory said.

If Fort Lee's initiative is successful, the Army may expand the use of trains elsewhere, Gregory said.

Yesterday, members of the Virginia Railway Express Operations Board were notified of the informal discussions with the Army.

Dale Zehner, VRE's chief executive officer, said the Army may be interested in leasing some VRE rail cars it holds in reserve as backup passenger cars.

Paul Milde, a Stafford supervisor and VRE Operations Board chairman, said the railway should do everything it can to support the military, as long as it does not adversely affect VRE service and passengers.

Zehner said more information would be available later this year.

Moving soldiers by train would lessen traffic for all other travelers on Interstate 95, Gregory said.

Also, it would give soldiers a chance to train for operations abroad, where traveling by train could be required, Gregory said.

Kevin Page, chief of rail transportation at the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation, said the Army train is an excellent opportunity to expand rail service in Virginia.

So far, the state agency's role has been connecting Army officials to institutions that will be involved in the process, such as freight rail companies, Page said.

[Willie Green]

WooHoo!!! Support our Troops!!!

Passenger rail is not only more efficient than than traveling by bus, it also provides more spacious accommodations for the troops and their gear. No sense squeezing them like sardines for a miserable 3~4 hour bus ride when they can arrive relaxed and refreshed and fully attentive for their training if they travel by train!!!

[Eye of Unk]

Excellent idea, obviously it wasn’t from the POTUS.

Soldiers have a ton of gear, much more so than a generation ago, and a train is safer to transport weapons.

[Bringbackthedraft]

Cool, coffee and doughnut stops between destinations with bands and towns people greeting them. The good ole days are coming back?

[saganite]

Ft Lee to Fort AP Hill. Wow, that’s a blast from our historic past!

[Willie Green]

Excellent idea, obviously it wasn’t from the POTUS.

Domestic troop movement was obviously a low priority and neglected by the Oil and Transportation Lobbies as well.
The Freight RRs just booted 'em off the tracks and told 'em to go find a bus instead.

[Willie Green]

I'm sure IKE had good intentions when he proposed the Interstate Highways for military purposes.
But had he been able to envision the congested traffic snarls in our major metropolitan areas, he NEVER would have permitted our passenger rail system to degrade and jeopardize our National Security.

[TweetEBird007]

In 1963, we had a couple of guys lose their front teeth in minor bus, army bus, bang ups, going to then Camp A P Hill
from Fort Belvoir. No one wanted to ride in army ambulances then because of poor drivers, wreck to wreck.

[Flintlock]

Busses to take them three miles?
THREE miles?
THREE MILES!!!

Ooo pooor widdle troopies, ooo.

Can’t march THREE miles. Eeeech.

[markomalley]

That is idiotic. "Ride in Comfort" my ass.

The troops will have to be transported (on busses) from their barracks to the station which will be located outside of Fort Lee. They will spend endless time waiting to load. Take the train up to Milford. Wait outside at the expansive Milford Virginia terminal:

And then board school busses (really roomy there) for the last 10 miles of the trip. (The Army will lease tour busses for trips between installations, but they use school busses for trips on installations)

All to save a 74 mile long trip on the highway. (which, oh by the way, they could do on US 301 and never touch I-95)

As for the roominess...they will have to pack to ride on busses, not a train. VRE trains (which is likely what they'd use) have the same exact type of seats as tour busses.

They will have to transfer cargo twice where they wouldn't have to do so otherwise.

All to avoid 64 miles of driving...and only about 18 miles of which would typically be on I-95 (which is the real motivation behind what they're doing).

No, thanks.

I can support train travel where it makes sense (commuter travel in metro areas and intercity travel between reasonably close cities, like DC to Balto, Philly, NYC, and Boston)

But this is an idiotic idea.

[Willie Green]

Don't be absurd.
No need to bus troops to a civilian station when every miltary base in our nation should have railroad sidings leading right on base. They may not have been used for troop service for many years, but there's no doubt they had to maintain them for base cargo and equipment transport.

If some bozo budget cutter abandoned the base railroad sidings for that libtard "rails to trails" program, they should be rebuilt immediately.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I thought about that, but then I looked at those 3 miles. No way to march them without seriously disrupting traffic.

[Jumpmaster]

Ask a Force Protection Officer if this is a good idea!
You would have to guard the length of the track 24/7.

[Willie Green]

Ask a Force Protection Officer if this is a good idea!
You would have to guard the length of the track 24/7.

Ask a Force Protection Officer if they have guards posted the full length of the Interstate highway for 24/7.

[CharlesWayneCT]

The troops will load ON Fort Lee property, probably in Warehouse row, where the railroad spur is located.

I guess the bus trip on the other side depends on where within Fort AP Hill they are going.

But it does require a transfer, and it is to eliminate a rather short in distance trip.

On the other hand, I-95 between Fredericksburg and Fort AP Hill is often a parking lot. I drive from Manassas to Kings Dominion regularly (a nominal 1:15 hour drive), and there are times when that takes over 2 hours because of traffic on I-95.

Driving the back roads is neither faster nor safer.

Of course, their argument about safety is stupid. It’s not like they are regularly having accidents, and there are likely to be injuries in this new transportation scheme as well, including at some point the possibility of a train crash, which while UNLIKELY, has the result of hurting a lot more troops at one time.

[CharlesWayneCT]

For some reason, Fort AP Hill doesn’t have a rail spur. Maybe they could build one as part of this new train travel idea, but it doesn’t look like they have any good choices for right-of-way between the tracks and the fort.

[BluH2o]

Ask a Force Protection Officer if this is a good idea!
You would have to guard the length of the track 24/7.

What are you smoking pal?

[CharlesWayneCT]

Also, I’m not sure exactly what train route they will use. I don’t see any direct routes between the sites, it seems they’ll have to go pretty far off-track and do several switchbacks to get back and forth.

[SandRat]

Most if not all were ripped out during the CarDUH an ClinTOON Administrations

[shanover]

We took long troop trains in Germany to southern training areas during the late 80's.It was a cool experience.

I do think rail terrorism is a potential risk.Spain,Russia and India come to mind.Why do we let people know troop movements? MY German girlfriend knew when our unit would have an alert or field problem before I did.

[wildbill]

Why would the ARmy use buses to transport troops THREE miles. Looks like the troops could use the three mile hike as part of their PT.

Or is that an old-fashioned idea?

[Willie Green]

Most if not all were ripped out during the CarDUH an ClinTOON Administrations

Oh for the love of Mike...

What kind of dimtard military logistics bureaucrat would completely abandon that mode of transportation???
Even if other methods are preferred, don't they teach 'em contingency planning, redundant backup systems and other fundamental principles to "be prepared" for whatever scenario that might crop up??

Those base RR sidings need to be restored ASAP.

[Willie Green]

Why would the ARmy use buses to transport troops THREE miles. Looks like the troops could use the three mile hike as part of their PT.

Forget the hike.
They can be ordered to hike anywhere, anytime, day or night, 24/7/365.

What is totally unforgivable is that there isn't a RR siding to take 'em right onto the base.

[Red Dog #1]

Willie, we’ve disagreed about passenger trains before, but this time it actually looks like a good idea. BTW, when one considers the orginal justification for the Interstates, this story is very ironic.

[Willie Green]

BTW, when one considers the orginal justification for the Interstates, this story is very ironic.

Yes it is.

And right now I'm suffering an extreme attack of confused amazement and bewilderment.
When you stop and think of the Hundreds of Billions or Trillions of Dollars we've spent on Defense over the last 25~50~75~100 years....
How can we possibly have ANY military bases without its own railroad siding leading right onto base???

Something is very, very wrong with this picture....

[SandRat]

I know for a fact that sometime after 1975 the rail sidings and the line spurs from the main line along with all the loading ramps were ripped out for Fort Huachuca, Arizona. Units here no longer have to have a qualified and trained rail load team.

[Snickersnee]

Solution: a “spur” track from Milford right to AP Hill.

[Willie Green]

That's totally mind-boggling.
I can't imagine a military base not having a siding or spur to handle bulk shipment of military freight of some sort.

[SandRat]

Only by truck now.

[Willie Green]

Doesn't sound good if we really needed massive deployment in a true national emergency,

Trucks are pretty wimpy compared to boxcars.

[Willie Green]

Also, I’m not sure exactly what train route they will use. I don’t see any direct routes between the sites, it seems they’ll have to go pretty far off-track and do several switchbacks to get back and forth.

Thanks for the info...
I haven't googled any Virginia rail maps to try to figure out what routes might be available.
Would you happen to have a link handy so I can see what you're looking at?

[SandRat]

and flat-cars. tanker-cars, refrigerated-cars, etc..

[Willie Green]

Yep, and all those too...
Thanks for the reminder...
I really am stunned that they would abandon rail transport capabilities.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I wish I knew where a good rail map was. I was just tracing through the tracks on Google Maps, using satellite pictures to determine what track switches were available at intersections.

So far as I could tell, they would end up heading east, do a transfer, wander through richmond, and I think come up Kings Dominion on the left before crossing I-95.

But there could be other routes. For some reason Google hasn’t done a “railroad track” selection yet.

[SandRat]

I don’t think the Army has any more Army owned rolling stock.

[wildbill]

Guess I didn’t fully explain my criticism. I don’t see why we’d spend money on buses to transport GIs three miles when, as you say, they can be ordered to hike it over to the camp.

For God’s sake dont let the Pentagon hear your comment about a RR spur and siding going over those 3 miles. It wold probably turn into a billion dollar government project that would get half-way built and then some Environut group would find a bird that would be annoyed by the noise competind with its song and sue to close it down.

[markomalley]

Solution: a “spur” track from Milford right to AP Hill.

Easier solution: just use stupid buses like has been successfully done now for years.

[markomalley]

I don’t think the Army has any more Army owned rolling stock.

Actually they do and they make extensive use of it in transporting cargo (such as heavy vehicles) from the origin to the Sea Port of Embarkation (such as from Ft. Drum to Bayonne or from Ft. Stewart to Savannah, Charleston, or Mobile).

In addition, they have their own switching engines that move the stock around from point a to point b at military ocean terminals (what MOTs they have left, that is...they have been privatizing since the end of the Cold War...and from what I've seen, the ones that are still left in the inventory are in pretty rough shape, except those where munitions are stored).

[mountainlion]

http://www.masstransitmag.com/publication/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=11888

It looks like China does not want high speed rail.

[mountainlion]

http://www.masstransitmag.com/publication/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=11888

It looks like China does not want high speed rail.