General faces unease from 'handcuffed' troops (McChrystal frustrated at Obama's spitball war)

MSNBC ^ | 6/22/2010 | C.J. Chivers/NY Times

[tobyhill]

Riding shotgun in an armored vehicle as it passed through the heat and confusion of southern Afghanistan this month, an Army sergeant spoke into his headset, summarizing a sentiment often heard in the field this year.

“I wish we had generals who remembered what it was like when they were down in a platoon,” he said to a reporter in the back. “Either they never have been in real fighting, or they forgot what it’s like.”

The sergeant was speaking of Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal and the circle of counterinsurgents who since last year have been running the Afghan war, and who have, as a matter of both policy and practice, made it much more difficult for troops to use airstrikes and artillery in the fight against the Taliban.

[Diogenesis]

The undocumented, multiple social security #’d, CIC:
"You propose patriotism and American safety. Phooey.
Instead, you will use my plan to weaken and trap American troops,
to eliminate their ability to respond, fight back, or defend themselves,
to decimate American security, open borders like sponges,
destroy every iota of law and your stupid Constitution,
eliminate American infrastructure, space plans, freedom,
destroy American innovation, economy, health, well-being and your future.
Why? Because it will bring in sufficient foreign enemies
and their families and their slaves to your helpless captured homeland
to assure my final win in the next and last election.”

[BobP]

WAKE UP AMERICA

On arrival pleasantries were exchanged... but what was he really thinking?

[mainsail that]

Untie their hands or bring them home—alive!

[tobyhill]

Iraq will go down in history as a President Bush victory and Afghanistan will go down as the war that Obama lost after it appeared we were winning.

[Jet Jaguar]

Bump

[Cvengr]

If Obama were smart, he’d either ignore the situation, and rest on his authority alone, in which case McChystal isn’t advanced and Obama’s past policies prevail, or he reassigns McChrystal with his SpecForces expertise and interest in political intrigue to watch, track, and maneuver Hillary.

IMHO, the entire affair is a contrived affair with Hillary all over the background.

[R. Scott]

This is particularly disturbing:

Several infantrymen have also said that the rules are so restrictive that pilots are often not allowed to attack fixed targets — say, a building or tree line from which troops are taking fire — unless they can personally see the insurgents doing the firing.

While that might not be exactly what the ROE say I understand how pilots could interpret it that way; if an “innocent civilian” (Taliban who’s weapon was carried away) is killed the pilot could be court marshaled for murder.
The article seems to lay the blame for the most recent rules of engagement on General McChrystal. All he’s been doing is following orders given him by the great military genius, (please - it’s sarcasm) The Big 0. If the general is relieved of command his replacement will enforce the same rules.
The Big 0 could care less about the troops on the ground - except when killed it’s bad PR and all the Big 0 cares about is PR.

[rollo tomasi]

If Obama was smart, he would give up on Afghan, blame his predecessor for the “inherited mess”, and look for “other options”. The touchy-feely warfare will just get more people killed and any type of lasting progress will fall from the wayside. Obama gets hurt a bit but if Afghan turns into an albatross (Proving the Administration’s policy is wrong) with continued loss of life and horrible progress, then Barry is dead meat in ‘12.

[Recon Dad]

No one wants to advocate loosening rules that might see more civilians killed. But no one wants to explain whether the restrictions are increasing the number of coffins arriving at Dover Air Force Base, and seeding disillusionment among those sent to fight.

Bring them home is right on the money. Once you’ve reached this point where the troops are secondary even to the point of losing pull them out.

[tobyhill]

Since this administration is so hellbent on making peace with the Taliban then we should pull out all our troops and airlift Hillary, Holbrook, Obama, Biden and even McChrystal right into Taliban country to talk to them.

[BuffaloJack]

When McChrystal was put in charge, Comrade O told he he’d get anything he needed.
McChrystal said he needed 70,000 additional troops; Comrade O promised him 50,000, but then only delivered 30,000.
How did Comrade O expect him to win with less than 50% support?

[Caipirabob]

"Then you drop the American flag like this and stomp on it 3 or 4 times grinding it into the dirt. Then you can talk peace with them..."

[Bringbackthedraft]

?? No CIB???

[ScottinVA]

Since there’s no intention to let our troops fight the war the way it SHOULD be fought, end this sh*t in Afghanistan and bring them home. Now.

[Travis McGee]

Complaints about how they are allowed to fight are another matter and can be read as a sign of deeper disaffection and strains within the military over policy choices. One Army colonel, in a conversation this month, said the discomfort and anger about the rules had reached a high pitch.

“The troops hate it,” he said. “Right now we’re losing the tactical-level fight in the chase for a strategic victory. How long can that be sustained?”

Whatever the fate of General McChrystal, the Pentagon’s Afghan conundrum remains. No one wants to advocate loosening rules that might see more civilians killed. But no one wants to explain whether the restrictions are increasing the number of coffins arriving at Dover Air Force Base, and seeding disillusionment among those sent to fight.

[Travis McGee]

We are just wasting American lives in Afghanistan.

In five years we’ll be gone, and we’ll have left hardly a ripple on that 7th century “culture.”

[SOLTC]

Gen. McChrystal wasn’t in combat until Desert Storm.
By that time he was a BG, and therefore, not eligible to earn a CIB.

[biff]

Does anybody else get a case of dejavu with all the fruit salad our generals and admirals are carrying? Kinda reminds me of the days we used to make fun of the Russian generals being plasterd with the stuff.

Do they give ribbons for exercises like “Foxholes 101”?

No disrespect to our fighting forces.

[CodeToad]

The military has gone PC since it doesn’t need warriors as leaders. They have technology that does most of the work. Everyone sees technology as the sexy warrior and technology is office work not grunt work. So, who is at the top looking out for the grunts? No one. It is all about PC. It had gotten pretty bad while I was in 20+ years ago, and today it is so bad that there really doesn’t seem to be any discipline or rules anymore. It is all about bogus credentials and resumes.

[ASOC]

Here is the awards and dec the man has earned

Defense Distinguished Service Medal
Defense Superior Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)
Legion of Merit (with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Bronze Star Medal
Defense Meritorious Service Medal
Meritorious Service Medal (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Army Commendation Medal
Army Achievement Medal
Expert Infantryman Badge
Master Parachutist Badge
Ranger Tab
Special Forces Tab
Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge

The RANGER tab, Special Forces Tab and Master Para badge are not "Foxhole 101" Check before you post least you look like an ass.

Unless of course, YOU have finished RANGER school, Special Foces training and hold a Master Para badge. In which case, you would have an understanding - and I doubt make such a statement publicly.

YMMV.

[biff]

No offense bubba. Even my dad who served 3 yrs. in WWII(2 in Europe as a special combat engineer) and two years Korea(one in country and one as self defense instructor) thinks it is a little over the top.

[ASOC]

So deska (just so) - The General SHOULD be fired.

Just the same, he worked, sweated and humped a lot of cr@p to earn all of that “fruit salad”.

As I noted elsewhere -my take is that in the end, he will be allowed to resign in lieu of prosecution.

Just another battle in the snake-eaters vs Regular Army types - in this aided and abetted by he media.

[combat_boots]

Michael Hastings.

The ‘reporter’s’ name is Michael Hastings.

The Publisher of ROlling Stone is an 0bama supporter.

What the the exact quotes that McChrystal supposedly said, according to MICHAEL HASTINGS and the ‘Rolling Stone’?

Where is the EVIDENCE? Do we now believe network media? Time? Newsweek? The NYT? Shep Smith? BOR?