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Police Taser El Reno Woman (To Enlighten the Gullible)
The El Reno Tribune ^ | January 3, 2010 | Rex Hogan

Posted on 06/25/2010 8:34:27 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT

El Reno police said they were forced to taser an 86-year-old El Reno woman last week who was threatening to kill herself and threatened officers with a knife.

The incident occurred Dec. 22 at the Elizabeth Place Apartments, 1955 S. Shephard, said Police Chief Ken Brown.

Brown said the woman's grandson telephoned police asking for help for his grandmother, who he said was threatening to overdose on medication. The chief said when officers arrived, they found the woman lying on a bed. He said when the woman saw the officers she ordered them out of her home and told them that she “wanted to die.”

Brown said the woman pulled a kitchen knife and told officers “she was in control of her life.” Brown said officers then tasered the woman and took the knife.

Brown said the woman was taken to Parkview Hospital where the tasers were removed and she was admitted to a mental health center.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: donutwatch; gullible; police; taser
I'm posting this from January, because several freepers have posted threads based on articles and blog entries about a lawsuit filed by the son in this incident for his grandmother, claiming unlawful acts by the police.

In their filing, they neglect to mention the knife, and the son claims he called to say his grandmother wasn't taking her medicine (rather than this news report that he reported she was suicidal).

Note there is no mention of oxygen in this article, or the police 'stepping on the supply hose'.

We have two long threads filled with freepers attacking the police and assuming that 10-12 officers would actually respond en masse to a report of a woman in medical distress, and would then attack her and taser her for no reason.

Thus, I mention "gullible".

1 posted on 06/25/2010 8:34:33 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Because of this post, you are not eligible to be a Code Orange Freeper.
I’m sorry. Those are the bylaws.


2 posted on 06/25/2010 8:36:40 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Gullible? LOL or commenting on the facts given in an article. more information is always better. thanks. this makes more sense.


3 posted on 06/25/2010 8:37:13 PM PDT by tioga
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To: IrishCatholic

Wait, I can’t be a code orange freeper now? But I want to be Code Orange Freeper. I’d be a great Code Orange Freeper. I’ve been here for years, I think I deserve to be a Code Orange Freeper. I’d be as good a Code Orange Freeper as any of the other Code Orange Freepers. It’s not fair that I don’t get to be a Code Orange Freeper. I’m entitled to be a COde orange fre.....

Uh, just what IS a “code orange freeper”.....?????


4 posted on 06/25/2010 8:40:12 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
"Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed."

Who's being naive, Kay?


5 posted on 06/25/2010 8:47:06 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

There are still far too many unanswered questions. First of all, even if the son said that she was suicidal, and had a knife, it would be on the 911 call. And whether or not it is, why still a major police response?

The article says he called the police. Anywhere in the US, emergency calls go to 911, not directly to the police, because they are just as likely to require paramedics, fire, or an ambulance. It is up to the 911 dispatcher who to summon. So why didn’t they summon paramedics?

Another point is that the police weren’t properly trained in the use of a Taser, which should never be used around oxygen, for obvious reasons.

In any event, now that a lawsuit has been filed, a judge and jury will decide the proximate events.


6 posted on 06/25/2010 8:50:05 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: CharlesWayneCT

ROFLMAO!!


7 posted on 06/25/2010 8:50:25 PM PDT by doc1019 (Rush, Beck and others are giving us the dots; it is up to us to connect them.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
...said Police Chief Ken Brown

That settles it then. Reminds me of the jury I sat on where the cops talked about a knife that could never be found and wasn't in the "crime" scene photos. Lying sacks of crap. What was in the photos was a spoon in a cereal bowl. I suggested to my fellow jurors that we find the accused guilty of possession of instruments of breakfast.

8 posted on 06/25/2010 8:51:22 PM PDT by Stentor
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: CharlesWayneCT

Sorry, you are soooo hosed. You can check the bylaws on my home page. Just think Code Pink for the military and move it stateside.

Seniority doesn’t count. Being on psych meds does. Perhaps you can make an appointment. With the proper prescription we might overlook your post tonight.


10 posted on 06/25/2010 8:59:07 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Lets see what all the reports agree on. An 87 year old woman on a bed, a grandson, 10 police or so and that they tazed her, handcuffed her and hauled her off. Any disagreement here? I didn't think so.

The other stuff, off her meds, knife, suicide, stepping on the oxygen hose, are they true? Your guess is as good as mine.

So what is an 87 year old bedridden women going to threaten? 10 Officers? That brings tears of laughter to my eyes. Hurting herself? Possibly. So they shoot her with a tazer that has been known you kill young healthy people. Yeah that makes a lot of sense, not.

All the officers should be brought up on attempted murder charges.

11 posted on 06/25/2010 9:04:04 PM PDT by LeGrande (Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

So the chief said she had a knife.That settles it then.Move along nothing to see here.


12 posted on 06/25/2010 9:05:27 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
There are still far too many unanswered questions. First of all, even if the son said that she was suicidal, and had a knife, it would be on the 911 call. And whether or not it is, why still a major police response?

You do not understand police procedure. It is customary for more than one and/or multiple police unit to respond to any call involving suicidal threats.

The article says he called the police. Anywhere in the US, emergency calls go to 911, not directly to the police, because they are just as likely to require paramedics, fire, or an ambulance. It is up to the 911 dispatcher who to summon. So why didn’t they summon paramedics?

There is no universal rule where 911 calls get routed especially from cell phones. From land lines, that would then break it down depending on the jurisdiction. As far as my area, if you call 911, you will get a law enforcement dispatch and then if the matter is determined to be medical ONLY it will be thusly dipatched with advisement to LE agencies as well. However, at no time is (or should) a call for a potentially suicidal subject be a call that would be considered medical only.

Another point is that the police weren’t properly trained in the use of a Taser, which should never be used around oxygen, for obvious reasons.

Neither you nor I know the officer(s)' level of training. I do not know of any restrictions on proximity to oxygen supplies. What "obvious" reasons would those be?

13 posted on 06/25/2010 9:06:49 PM PDT by KJC1
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To: Stentor

“What was in the photos was a spoon in a cereal bowl.”

Cereal killer...they’re the worst.


14 posted on 06/25/2010 9:24:17 PM PDT by mesoman7
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To: KJC1

Absolutely no flame or spark near oxygen, as it can result in a very hot fire or explosion. Very dangerous stuff. Here are the stats:

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files//pdf/os.oxygen.pdf

There have been many cases of Tasers setting on fire individuals and objects exposed to an accelerant, such as gasoline, paint fumes (huffer), and natural gas. Oxygen would be one of the top risks.


15 posted on 06/25/2010 9:24:24 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

I am a certified TASER Instructor. I think you should send your link to TASER International because I don’t have the time to explain to you the amount of dis-info out there.

And by no means is my response meant to be rude to you; I think you are responding in good faith. FReepmail me with your results if you don’t mind, might be funny for both of us. :)


16 posted on 06/25/2010 9:31:53 PM PDT by KJC1
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To: CharlesWayneCT
"Gullible"?

I think the work you are looking for is suspicious... suspicious of the police accounts.

It seems there are so many "isolated incidents" these days we have good reason to be suspicious.

A quick internet search found about half a hundred recent stories from all over the US.

So either everyone is in concert and lying about cops and their wanton use of tazers or, where there is smoke there is usually a fire.

<Suspended Tybee police officer Valdes resigns in wake of Grevemberg tazing

17 posted on 06/25/2010 10:00:08 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: CharlesWayneCT

To save her we had to kill her.


18 posted on 06/25/2010 10:13:17 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law." -- Aristotle)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Homo’s...


19 posted on 06/25/2010 10:18:26 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Orange you upset?


20 posted on 06/25/2010 10:19:47 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: SmartInsight; All

What confused me is in the actual police report, the police officer Duran said that the woman was cut with the knife while they were trying to restrain her arm and remove the knife. This was supposedly AFTER her tazing. I don’t know grown men who could struggle with several officers to keep a knife in their hand immediately after being tazed. Much less an 86 yr old woman.

Just doesn’t make much sense.


21 posted on 06/25/2010 10:28:15 PM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf aInd dumb to the chariot wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
In their defense, the entire force had just watched this:

So they were a little jumpy. Like pansy little girls.

22 posted on 06/25/2010 11:09:39 PM PDT by rednesss (fascism is the union,marriage,merger or fusion of corporate economic power with governmental power)
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To: rednesss

Pansy girls?

LOL. What have you done to spew that out?


23 posted on 06/25/2010 11:28:19 PM PDT by KJC1
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To: LeGrande

You must not have ever had to deal with crazy people. Once in my wilder, more foolish days I was a volunteer medic and we got called to a nursing home to commit a elderly woman. She looked like a petite little granma, but meaner than a crack crazed wildcat. It took three healthy medics to secure her. I almost had my naughty bits punted accross the room. And she didnt have a knife.
PS The cops were suppost to handle this, but they said she said she had shortness of breath. My ass she had shortness of breath. It was the PD way to go back and watch porn and eat bagels.


24 posted on 06/26/2010 1:50:51 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: Yorlik803
She looked like a petite little granma, but meaner than a crack crazed wildcat. It took three healthy medics to secure her. I almost had my naughty bits punted accross the room. And she didnt have a knife.

LOL I suppose she was bedridden too : )

It was the PD way to go back and watch porn and eat bagels.

I think you nailed it.

25 posted on 06/26/2010 5:25:17 AM PDT by LeGrande (Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.)
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To: KJC1

Here are the Taser issued warnings. Please see under ‘Fire and Explosion Hazard’ section.


26 posted on 06/26/2010 5:45:06 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: KJC1

Here are the Taser issued warnings. Please see under ‘Fire and Explosion Hazard’ section.

http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Law-Enforcement-Warnings.pdf


27 posted on 06/26/2010 5:45:15 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: CharlesWayneCT
El Reno police said ....

Say no more. Really

28 posted on 06/26/2010 8:01:44 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (a 16 year old Australian girl already did it. And she did it right. - WWJD)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

But we don’t KNOW there was oxygen. It’s not in the news story about the incident. We also don’t know how many police responded — it’s not in the news story.

We’d know a lot more if we had the police report, but I haven’t been able to find that online, and the local news (from my internet searches) has been ignoring the story and the lawsuit, which makes me think it’s more of a joke than we might think.

Remember, we seem to know the story because someone filed a complaint, and it’s been posted to a bunch of blogs, some of which are pretty anti-police. Anybody can put anything in a complaint, and it seems if the police department in El Reno were facing a serious lawsuit, the El Reno paper would have mentioned it by now — and I can’t find any indication they have.

So I guess we’ll have to wait and see whether there are facts in agreement that we can use to evaluate better. I agree that 12 police and stepping on oxygen hoses would be bad — but I have no independent verification that either of those claims are true.

What I do have is a credible news story that shows some of the complaint to either be false or misleading, and certainly missing significant and important mitigating details.


29 posted on 06/28/2010 8:02:28 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

I guess Gullible is a harsh word, most of the people here are just curious.

But in the previous threads, there were too many freepers who just assumed that since the blog articles didn’t give any reason why the police acted like they did, the police were all evil and did exactly as the complaint alleged.

My point was that I seem to be the only person in the previous two threads who took the time to look on the internet for information that would explain the police actions, rather than just assuming the police were evil.

Thus, the “gullible” comment.

I shouldn’t have implied that I believe the news story implicitly and therefore know what happened. I don’t, and I’m still interested in the police report.


30 posted on 06/28/2010 8:06:31 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

I imagine things from a similar, but different, point of view.

To start with, the original 911 caller must have said something to get such a response in the first place. I suspect that he told them about her knife, but that’s just a guess. The 911 recording likely won’t be released until trial, even though it is public record.

As far as oxygen goes, there likely was oxygen, because it would not be mentioned otherwise. But this could mean three things. Either an oxygen generator, which is low risk, low pressure, and has to be sucked into the lungs, and generally safe; or an oxygen tank, which is either a small tank or a large one, with proportional risk, both from the raw oxygen, and from the large, high pressure tank which if it gets its head knocked off is as dangerous as a flying torpedo.

The third alternative is an oxygen tent, which is extremely dangerous, but wouldn’t be used in this situation, as treading on its tube wouldn’t be notice for quite a while.

Now this being said, both small and large tanks usually have lots of tube, which would be easy to step on without knowing it. So that is a minor thing in this situation.

After that, the issue is how to get someone off a bed who is holding, and menacing, with a knife. Not easy. If they had one available, a stun gun would probably be a better alternative than a Taser, but they probably didn’t have one.


31 posted on 06/28/2010 8:55:17 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Let’s see...a half dozen heavily armed gun and taser-toting cops versus one senile granny with a kitchen knife. Exactly how was “officer safety” threatened again?


32 posted on 07/11/2010 8:00:03 PM PDT by conimbricenses
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To: conimbricenses

Didn’t say they tazered her for their safety. Maybe they tazered her to stop her from stabbing herself.


33 posted on 07/11/2010 8:32:01 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

As if electroshocking granny is the only way to relieve her of her kitchen knife?


34 posted on 07/12/2010 5:28:28 AM PDT by conimbricenses
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To: conimbricenses

Easiest way to avoid someone getting slashed by a knife.


35 posted on 07/12/2010 6:13:20 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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