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Obama: Hostage To Petraeus
The Atlantic ^ | Wednesday, June 23, 2010 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 06/26/2010 10:07:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

David Petraeus is the real Pope of counter-insurgency and if he decides that he needs more troops and more time and more resources in Afghanistan next year, who is going to be able to gainsay him? That's Thomas P. Barnett's shrewd assessment. Obama's pledge to start withdrawing troops in 2011 is now kaput... It really is Vietnam -- along with the crazier and crazier rationales for continuing it. But it is now re-starting in earnest ten years in, dwarfing Vietnam in scope and longevity. One suspects there is simply no stopping this war machine, just as there is no stopping the entitlement and spending machine... now we have the real kool-aid drinker, Petraeus, who will refuse to concede the impossibility of success in Afghanistan just as he still retains the absurd notion that the surge in Iraq somehow worked in reconciling the sectarian divides that still prevent Iraq from having a working government... Obama will run for re-election with far more troops in Afghanistan than Bush ever had -- and a war and occupation stretching for ever into the future, with no realistic chance of success. Make no mistake: this is an imperialism of self-defense... continuing this struggle will actually increase and multiply the terror threats we face -- as it becomes once again a recruitment tool for Jihadists the world over... Maybe this is why you supported Obama -- to see the folly of nation-building extended indefinitely to the least promising wastelands on earth, as the US heads toward late-imperial bankruptcy. It is not a betrayal as such. But it is, in my view, a huge and metastasizing mistake.

(Excerpt) Read more at andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; andrewsullivan; iraq; mcchrystal; pakistan; petraeus; thomaspmbarnett; waronterror
Getting Shit Done | 17 Jun 2010 07:41 pm | [Re-posted from earlier today] | What are the odds that Obamas huge success yesterday in getting BP to pledge a cool $20 billion to recompense the *small people* in the Gulf will get the same attention as his allegedly dismal speech on Tuesday night? If you take Memeorandum as an indicator, it really is no contest. The speech is still being dissected by language experts, but the $20 billion that is the front page news in the NYT today? Barely anywhere on the blogs. This is just a glimpse into the distortion inherent in our current political and media culture.
Click the image to see more screed from this "no party or clique" jackass.
1 posted on 06/26/2010 10:07:31 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; blueyon; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ...
Here's the link to what Sullivan purported responded to -- same date.
10 Things to Know About the Petraeus-McChrystal Switch
by Thomas P.M. Barnett
author of Great Powers: America and the World After Bush
Wednesday, June 23, 2010
Whatever the general wants, the general will get. After firing his Afghanistan commander twice in just thirteen months, Obama has no choice. Petraeus now outranks every administration player on Afghanistan. Save Obama -- officially, at least... Frankly, the new sheriff's strong personal relationships with the Pakistani military and security forces will matter a helluva lot more than which of McChrystal's lieutenants he keeps on or gets rid of."King David" has no peers when it comes to counterinsurgency credentials, having overseen the creation of the Army-Marine Corps's seminal field manual and commanded its first successful application in Iraq. If anything, Obama has now doubled-down on the COIN path in Af-Pak, so the COINdistas haven't taken any sort of hit.
The Pope, the King -- and no complaints from anyone about referring to both of these writers as jackasses.
2 posted on 06/26/2010 10:08:12 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

This is the first thouht I had wne it qwas announced he was taking over. I wondered what Obama told him to get him to take the demotion. I’d bet that he was told whatever you want....


3 posted on 06/26/2010 10:13:52 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ll be damned - the old queen is right. All Petraeus has to do is resign, and Zer0 goes down.

Petraeus now holds Zer0’s..administration...in the palm of his hand. Squeeze, General, squeeze.


4 posted on 06/26/2010 10:18:28 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: SunkenCiv

We had the Vietcong on the ropes, but our anti-American media won a big victory for the communists.


5 posted on 06/26/2010 10:18:50 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Hey, Barack "Hubris" Obama, $10 is all it would take, why spend millions to cover it up?)
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To: SunkenCiv
it is now re-starting in earnest ten years in, dwarfing Vietnam in scope and longevity.

Andrew Sullivan really is a dipshit. Afghanistan dwarfing Vietnam, with its six hundred thousand troop commitment and 59,000 dead and missing? I don't think so. But then I'm not a limey poofter so what do I know.

6 posted on 06/26/2010 10:19:21 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: SunkenCiv
There is a coordinated operation within the MSM to:

1. Make sure the U.S. loses in Afghanistan.
2. Make sure Obama bears no responsibility.
3. Destroy the careers and the reputations of the military officers who were successful during the Bush years.

Obama is universally praised as brilliant and a great Comander in Chief for firing McChrystal and replacing him with General “betray us” who Democrats and the MSM hate. The MSM is also careful to include the fact that “betray us” supposedly formulated the policy in Afghanistan, he is clearly being set up to fail. Meanwhile, Obama who has been worse than incompetent as CIC and who has created an atmosphere of infighting and sabotage within his administration is praised as a brilliant leader. Petreaus will be sabotaged as McChrystal was.

7 posted on 06/26/2010 10:20:55 AM PDT by detective
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To: SunkenCiv

Another take on this is that O’bummer needs to be well engaged in this war when he comes up for nomination and reelection in 2012. A major platform will be that any disruption in the DC power structure would jeopardize the entire effort.


8 posted on 06/26/2010 10:26:44 AM PDT by downtownconservative
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To: SunkenCiv

If Afghanistan is Vietnam, the current RAT president wont be running again.


9 posted on 06/26/2010 10:29:15 AM PDT by freespirited (There are a lot of bad Republicans but there are no good Democrats.--Ann Coulter)
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To: Slings and Arrows
All Petraeus has to do is resign, and Zer0 goes down.

Shhhhh. With language like that, you'll bring Larry Sinclair to Sullivan's mind : and then he'll go into Al Gore ("crazed sex poodle") mode on us.

Cheers!

10 posted on 06/26/2010 10:32:27 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: chris_bdba

As Mac Arthur said to “Ridgeway in December, 1950: “It’s all yours, Matt.” Petraeus, however, is wearing both hats.


11 posted on 06/26/2010 10:34:04 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: grey_whiskers

> > All Petraeus has to do is resign, and Zer0 goes down.

> Shhhhh. With language like that, you’ll bring Larry
> Sinclair to Sullivan’s mind : and then he’ll go into Al
> Gore (”crazed sex poodle”) mode on us.

Thank you very much. I will now vomit up every meal I’ve eaten since 1974.


12 posted on 06/26/2010 10:34:43 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Slings and Arrows
Petraeus now holds Zer0’s..administration...in the palm of his hand. Squeeze, General, squeeze.

Actually, it's Obama's b@!!$ in the palm of his...er, wait the Muzzie-Commie Kenyan Usurper doesn't have any.

Actually, it's Michelle-Wookie's b@!!$ in the palm...

13 posted on 06/26/2010 10:36:09 AM PDT by twister881
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To: detective

David Petraeus will not be sabotaged by this President. America knows what they have in David Petraeus. The other thing is that the President is running out of choices and must keep Petraeus. I figured that Petraeus would not have accepted the job unless he got exactly what he wanted. He’s a warrior and wouldn’t have accepted less. He knew he had Obama by the short hairs and Obama knows it also. If Obama ever, EVER, fires this general, he’s done and may be forced out of office.


14 posted on 06/26/2010 10:50:26 AM PDT by RC2
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To: SunkenCiv

All Andrew Sullivan really cares about is that taxpayer dollars be spent to ram homosexuality down everyone else’s throats. Who died and made him an astute commentator on international affairs?


15 posted on 06/26/2010 10:55:13 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (" 'Bush did it' is not a foreign policy." -- Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: SunkenCiv

Hmmmm...I see that Barnett has finally seen some light on Obama.


16 posted on 06/26/2010 10:55:29 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: freespirited
If Afghanistan is Vietnam, the current RAT president wont be running again.


From your keys to God's ears...


"I shall not seek, nor will I accept the nomination of my party for another term as your President."

17 posted on 06/26/2010 11:01:33 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (" 'Bush did it' is not a foreign policy." -- Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: detective

The media conveniently over looks the fact that McChrystal was handpicked by Obama. Obama then gave McChrystal’s plan and COIN strategy his personal blessing including an additional 21,000 troops initially, followed by a surge of 30,000 more(which won’t be complete until September). They can call appointing Petraeus brilliant, but that appointment was caused by Obama’s collossal failure with McChrystal.


18 posted on 06/26/2010 11:03:05 AM PDT by csmusaret (The way his orders become law, Obama's personal automobile must be a Fiat.)
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To: SunkenCiv
I cannot, and not for want of trying, come up with a real strategic or essential US National Security Interest for the US being in Afghanistan.

Once we routed the Taliban the first time we should have invited the Russians, Indians, Chinese...WHOEVER to come in and set up some type of government, any type which is not Islamic.

Our interests would have been FULLY satisfied by stopping right there...and out by 2003.

19 posted on 06/26/2010 11:05:39 AM PDT by Mariner (The Government-Union Complex must be destroyed)
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To: SunkenCiv

Wasn’t he the “General Betray Us” the libs piled on just a little over a year ago? They are so out of it that they will just support anything the Obama regime offers up. No intellect at all, just robots to Communist groupthink!


20 posted on 06/26/2010 11:09:28 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannolis. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: SunkenCiv

Ya know A. Sullivan claimed a decade ago to be a fiscal conservative (cut spending) and a social liberal. He may have voted for Bush the first time. But when Bush supported a marriage amendment around 2003-2004, Sullivan just went nuts. And he fell head over heels for Obama. Sullivan supports Obamacare, and seems to basically support the whole Obama agenda—the most un-conservative fiscal agenda in history. Even LBJ would have blushed at the outrageous power grabs of Obama and the Democrat party!


21 posted on 06/26/2010 11:12:31 AM PDT by guitarist
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To: RC2
“David Petraeus will not be sabotaged by this President.”

I truly hope not. But the Democrats and the MSM hate Gen. Petraeus. They will not say anything right now, they do not want to detract from Obama’s “brilliant” decision. But overtime they will undermine him and try to destroy his career and reputation. The administration people who were undermining Gen. McChrystal will also work to undermine Gen. Petreaus.

By the way, I though the theatrics of how McChrystal was treated was disgusting. First, he had to come to the White House without knowing what was going on and be photographed and harassed by reporters who had obviously been briefed by The White House. Then Obama making a point of meeting with him for only a few minutes to humiliate him and then the White House staff told reporters how forceful Obama was in firing him and how great a Commander in Chief he was.

It made me want to throw up. McChrystal served his country well for years in Iraq. He should have been treated with respect and not humiliated just to make Obama seem presidential.

22 posted on 06/26/2010 11:14:13 AM PDT by detective
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To: SunkenCiv
His line "dwarfing Vietnam in scope and longevity" is a triumph of rhetoric over reality.

One can only hope that Andrew finds some meaning in life and that his boyfriend's bottom grows together preventing Andrew from any gratification.

23 posted on 06/26/2010 11:17:30 AM PDT by elhombrelibre ("I'd rather be ruled by the Tea Party than the Democratic Party." Norman Podhoretz)
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To: detective

The conspiratorial side of me thinks perhaps David and Stanley may have gone fishing together recently, just the two of them. Stan offers to take the dive and David says he will take the AF job.

Patraeus really does have the Obozo between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that Patraeus demanded and got a whole lot of assurances. And I would bet they are documented. So, if he is successful (highly unlikely) then his standing in the public’s eyes gets even greater. If Obozo tries to slip the knife in Patraeus can wave the assurances in front of the camera as he turns in his resignation. If one has any notions of say taking a shot at high elected office, either one of these scenarios works well for them.


24 posted on 06/26/2010 12:09:47 PM PDT by technically right
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To: detective
“I truly hope not. But the Democrats and the MSM hate Gen. Petraeus”

I think your apprehensiveness is well founded. My take was that this is a win/win for Obama. If it is perceived that Afghanistan is turning for the better, the press will ensure that Obama gets the credit. If Afghanistan continues to flounder due to incompetent government and we “fail”, Petraeus gets the blame. This move was all political on Obama’s part.

25 posted on 06/26/2010 12:14:37 PM PDT by lt.america (My soul was removed to make room for all of this sarcasm)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Right and Right. This sadly, (for the boots on the ground) is mind bogglingly hilarious.

My prayer...that GDP covers our boys behinds while uncovering BHO’s.

Quite a unique challenge.


26 posted on 06/26/2010 12:38:41 PM PDT by onona (dbada)
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To: SunkenCiv

As I said before Obama and Gates are Patraeus’ bitches. Look for Holbrooke and/or Eikenberry to be replaced. ROE will be more sensible too.


27 posted on 06/26/2010 12:50:13 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obama's 911; Going Down in Flames)
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To: Albion Wilde

Hearing those words again would send a tingle up my leg.

;-)


28 posted on 06/26/2010 1:16:17 PM PDT by freespirited (There are a lot of bad Republicans but there are no good Democrats.--Ann Coulter)
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To: Mike Darancette

I hope Petraeus’ health holds up.


29 posted on 06/26/2010 8:18:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: elhombrelibre

Heh...


30 posted on 06/26/2010 8:24:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: guitarist

Okay, but please, from now on, don’t include “power grab”, “nuts”, “head over heels”, “blushed”, and “marriage” in the same paragraph ever again. ;’)


31 posted on 06/26/2010 8:25:12 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Albion Wilde
ram homosexuality down everyone else's throats
Ew,
32 posted on 06/26/2010 8:26:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Have you ruled out stupidity? Oops, sorry, he’s just another partisan media shill.


33 posted on 06/26/2010 8:27:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Okay, and you, no more “old queen” and “goes down” in the same sentence, along with “palm of his hand” in the next. ;’)


34 posted on 06/26/2010 8:28:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: chris_bdba

Zero’s word is no good. Petraeus knows that. He did it because it was his duty, period.


35 posted on 06/26/2010 8:28:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: FreeAtlanta

/bingo


36 posted on 06/26/2010 8:29:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Mariner

Thanks Mariner.


37 posted on 06/26/2010 8:30:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Don Corleone

It was always only about party identity.


38 posted on 06/26/2010 8:30:31 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: detective; downtownconservative; freespirited

Thanks!


39 posted on 06/26/2010 8:31:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SumProVita; Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2542328/posts?page=16#16


40 posted on 06/26/2010 8:34:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

Wow! Sullivan really is a major league Clymer!


41 posted on 06/26/2010 8:34:18 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Build a man a fire; he'll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire; he'll be warm the rest of his life)
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To: Albion Wilde
All Andrew Sullivan really cares about is that taxpayer dollars be spent to ram homosexuality down everyone else’s throats.

Throats? You are one sick puppy, Albion. Now, I need some brain bleach.

;^)

42 posted on 06/26/2010 8:39:11 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Build a man a fire; he'll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire; he'll be warm the rest of his life)
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To: SunkenCiv; SumProVita

http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LE04Ak01.html

Memo to heads of state: beware the clever general who turns up at a tough moment, and says “Leave it to me: I can fix it for you.” Two examples come to mind. The great field marshal of the Thirty Years War of 1618-1648, Albrecht von Wallenstein, taught armies to live off the land, and succeeded so well that nearly half the people of Central Europe starved to death during the conflict.

General David Petraeus, who heads America’s Central Command (CENTCOM), taught the land to live off him. Petraeus’ putative success in the Iraq “surge” of 2007-2008 is one of the weirder cases of Karl Marx’s quip of history repeating itself first as tragedy second as farce. The consequences will be similar, that is, hideous.


43 posted on 06/26/2010 8:54:39 PM PDT by Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
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To: SunkenCiv

Unfortunately, I fear everyone’s expectations of what Petraeus will be able to accomplish are misplaced.

He IS being set up to fail and be scapegoated by Obama. The reason is that, no matter how great his ability, the Afghanistan war is unwinnable as it is currently being formulated and undertaken. It is the wrong war, in the wrong place, against the wrong people, for the wrong reasons. Moreover, Obama, and the powerful interests running him, don’t want the US to win - their plans require a humiliating defeat for America and our military.

In order to even have a chance of avoiding a disastrous defeat, not only must the tactics, strategy and ROEs be changed, the mission itself must be drastically redefined. Obama is not going to allow that unless he is forced to it.

Petraeus has only a very narrow window of opportunity to do this, and the only way he can force Obama’s hand is go public with whatever promises many here seem to believe he extracted in order to take the job. If he doesn’t make them public within a matter of a few days or weeks, even by provoking a PR confrontation with Obama, then those promises, assurances, guarantees, etc., etc., etc. from Obama don’t mean squat. If he trusted Obama at all, then he, and the troops under his command, are screwed.


44 posted on 06/26/2010 8:56:29 PM PDT by tarheelswamprat
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To: SunkenCiv

*snicker*


45 posted on 06/26/2010 10:58:24 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: technically right

“The conspiratorial side of me thinks perhaps David and Stanley may have gone fishing together recently, just the two of them. Stan offers to take the dive and David says he will take the AF job.”

I’m of the same conspiratorial thinking. Wonder what ol’ Stan is up to these days. Didn’t hear anything about loosing any stars, either. Have a feeling it will be an active summer.


46 posted on 06/26/2010 11:21:33 PM PDT by FreeStateYank (I want my country and constitution back, now!)
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To: detective

General McChrystal’s resignation has shone more of a bad light on the POTUS and his administration than on the General, despite any best efforts by the Dems and the State-Run-Media.

You aren’t alone in seeing through the spin.


47 posted on 06/26/2010 11:39:34 PM PDT by LucyJo
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To: lt.america

The media may “give” Obama the credit for any success in Afghanistan, that is if there is any credit left over that Obama and company hasn’t taken already, should the General succeed.

Obama’s glaring ineptitude as POTUS already has put the lie to that claim. General Petraeus is coming in to attempt to rectify the results of that ineptitude. Anything the Dems might do to thwart his efforts will be seen as further ineptitude on their part.

If the General is successful, it will be a win for our troops and allies, the Afghan people, the United States of America, and freedom. Who cares if a bunch of proven liars takes credit? Anyone with half a brain will know the truth of the matter, and the benefit of the victory outweighs their false claims.

We need to be on our knees to God in repentance and supplication, as individuals and as a nation, for Him to bless the General, our troops, and the whole situation to keep them within His providential care and guidance. May good prevail, and to God be the glory.


48 posted on 06/27/2010 12:07:30 AM PDT by LucyJo
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