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Lock and Load?
The New York Sun ^ | June 29, 2010 | Staff

Posted on 06/29/2010 1:48:20 PM PDT by neverdem

One of the most illuminating questions in respect of the Supreme Court’s ruling on the right to keep and bear arms is whether it should be applauded by the liberals or by conservatives — or both. The court, in a case called McDonald v. Chicago, followed a ruling two years ago, in a case called District of Columbia v. Heller, in which the court said that the federal government could not infringe the rights vouched safe by the Second Amendment. In the latest case it extended that logic, deciding that the Second Amendment does apply to the states and municipalities. As in Heller, it stopped short of saying there could be no regulation of guns. But it did say that the Second Amendment protects Americans from interference by all levels of government.

In this sense it continues a process known as incorporation, in which the Bill of Rights, which was originally intended to restrict only the federal government, is extended via the 14th Amendment to restrict the states and local governments from interfering with the people’s rights as well. But is that a right-wing idea or a left-wing one? After all, the idea of states rights is thought of as a conservative idea, and the process of incorporation uses the 14th Amendment to limit what the states can do. But McDonald is a case in which the four more liberal members of the court — Justices Breyer, Ginsburg, Stevens, and Sotomayor — all dissented and said that the second of the 10 amendments that make up the bill of rights should not apply to the states and that the states should be able to do what they want to.

In any event, what an astonishing thing to see Chicago warning residents not to exercise the rights the Supreme Court just...

(Excerpt) Read more at nysun.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; heller; mcdonald
Lock and Load?

What's the origin of that bass ackwards statement? A round has to be loaded into the action of a firearm before the action can be locked.

1 posted on 06/29/2010 1:48:24 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem
IIRC, it goes back to the old muzzle-loader days, where one would fully cock the action before reloading from the bore. Can't recall ever doing that myself with my old CVA .45 Kentucky rifle, tho'...
2 posted on 06/29/2010 1:52:02 PM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Joe Brower

I believe it also applies to certain types of rifles that can have the action cycled with the safety on. The idea being to “lock” the action and then “load” as a way to prevent accidental discharges.


3 posted on 06/29/2010 1:55:46 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: neverdem

Probably refers to loading a magazine that is still in the weapon, by using stripper clips. The bolt must be locked back then the rounds pushed down into the mag.

I load my SKS in this way, one clip of ten rounds, remove clip, pull back on the bolt handle and release to let it go into battery.


4 posted on 06/29/2010 1:57:29 PM PDT by Max in Utah (A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: neverdem
In this sense it continues a process known as incorporation, in which the Bill of Rights, which was originally intended to restrict only the federal government, is extended via the 14th Amendment to restrict the states and local governments from interfering with the people’s rights as well.

Justice Thomas disagrees with this silly logic, with regards to the 2nd Amendment, and he disproves it fully in his brilliantly written opinion.

If we didn't need Clarance Thomas so badly on the Supreme Court I would nominate him to run for President of the United States.

5 posted on 06/29/2010 2:06:29 PM PDT by frogjerk (I believe in unicorns, fairies and pro-life Democrats.)
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To: neverdem

Well, I don’t know where you took your basic, but we locked our M-14s (Put the safety on.) before we inserted a magazine into the mag well and then chambered a round.


6 posted on 06/29/2010 2:11:55 PM PDT by Redleg Duke (RAT Hunting Season started the evening of March 21st, 2010!)
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To: neverdem

Well, I don’t know where you took your basic, but we locked our M-14s (Put the safety on.) before we inserted a magazine into the mag well and then chambered a round.


7 posted on 06/29/2010 2:11:59 PM PDT by Redleg Duke (RAT Hunting Season started the evening of March 21st, 2010!)
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To: neverdem
Watch this video, Loading and Shooting the M1 Garand.

This is the source for that saying.



Or ... this source. I SAY AGAIN ... Watch this video, Loading and Shooting the M1 Garand

8 posted on 06/29/2010 2:17:12 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple, fight or die.)
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To: Joe Brower

That sounds insane.
Why would you cock a rifle and then pour powder down the bore and then begin ramming in the ball, which could cause the action to trigger?

I think the original meaning was lost somewhere and people just apply it to the genre or weapon they’re familiar with.

With the M-16, I was told to “lock” (a magazine in the well) and “load” a round into the chamber.


9 posted on 06/29/2010 2:17:52 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Max in Utah; Joe Brower; I cannot think of a name
Probably refers to loading a magazine that is still in the weapon, by using stripper clips. The bolt must be locked back then the rounds pushed down into the mag.

I load my SKS in this way, one clip of ten rounds, remove clip, pull back on the bolt handle and release to let it go into battery.

Maybe it was a command during World War II on U.S. rifle ranges for the M1 Garand?

10 posted on 06/29/2010 2:19:01 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: Joe Brower
fully cock the action

As a frequent black powder shooter, and shooter of period pieces and flintlocks, I will state you would never do that if you were loading properly, not in 2010, 1810 or in 1710. The piece has a "half cock" position for that.

Maybe you would lock into half-cock, then load.

11 posted on 06/29/2010 2:26:00 PM PDT by Fido969 ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: SJSAMPLE
Actually I have seen muskets and other muzzle loaders that had a lock that could be applied specifically for loading or for carrying through heavy brush.

Also, there are many varieties of Mouser, as well as other bolt action rifles, that can have the action cycled with the safety applied. It is always recommended that the safety be applied (action locked) before cycling live rounds.

12 posted on 06/29/2010 2:31:31 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: neverdem

Having fired the M1 GARAND myself, I can understand John Wayne's reversing this saying.
13 posted on 06/29/2010 2:35:03 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple, fight or die.)
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To: neverdem

“Lock and Load”

When used as a range command, the word “lock” traditionally means to set the weapon on “safe.” The term was used with the 1903 Springfield, and maybe even before that.

The ‘03 Springfield range command was “load and lock”, meaning to load five rounds from the stripper clip into the magazine, close the bolt, then set the three-position safety to the “safe” position, which also locked the bolt closed. It was even called a “safety lock.”

When the M1 Garand came into service, the range command was reversed to “lock and load”, since the M1 could be set to “safe” before it was loaded with the en bloc clip. The M14 used the same type of safety.

The traditional term “lock” was kept when the M16 was brought into service.


14 posted on 06/29/2010 2:39:17 PM PDT by 04-Bravo
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To: I cannot think of a name

I understand a positive safety, but why would you COCK any muzzle-loader before loading it?


15 posted on 06/29/2010 2:39:29 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Yosemitest

Thanks for the link & comments.


16 posted on 06/29/2010 2:39:35 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: SJSAMPLE
I'm no expert on that, however I have several friends that are big black powder shooters. One of them has a gun that I am absolutely certain had some kind of small handle device that locks the hammer at least part of the way back while he loading. Maybe to allow burnt powder to be pushed out of the charging hole? Next time I see him at the range, I'll ask.
17 posted on 06/29/2010 2:45:32 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: Fido969; I cannot think of a name; neverdem; SJSAMPLE
Heh. I knew that tossing out my, er, 'half-cocked' idea would inspire some informative comments. $;-)

I never liked the term "lock and load". Too much bravado in it with today's vernacular. I always use the term "Make Ready". More businesslike, and more widely applicable.

18 posted on 06/29/2010 2:47:16 PM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: neverdem
What's the origin of that bass ackwards statement? A round has to be loaded into the action of a firearm before the action can be locked.

Lock the magazine into your rifle, then load a round into the chamber.

At least, that's how my drill sergeant explained it to me lo these many years ago.

19 posted on 06/29/2010 2:56:09 PM PDT by Terabitten ("Don't retreat. RELOAD!!" -Sarah Palin)
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To: neverdem
Ignoring the semantic, and I must say useless "lock and load discussion, there is something more important here...

After all, the idea of states rights is thought of as a conservative idea, and the process of incorporation uses the 14th Amendment to limit what the states can do.

This is an example of the ignorance that the left uses to smear conservatives. Stated plainly - they want states rights, but they support removing states rights.

We need to be more focused on directing the discussion to the true issue - this isn't about state rights, this is about personal rights for which no government, federal, state, or local, has the authority to interfere with. Period. This is specifically stated in the Bill of Rights, no questions asked unless you want to contort and torture the plain reading.

I could care less what "lock and load" means to anyone. The subtle dig in the article is - conservative ideals and respect for the Constitution are not compatible.

We really need to get better at countering this kind of BS.

20 posted on 06/29/2010 4:58:13 PM PDT by !1776!
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To: !1776!
Hence "LOCK and LOAD" in the sense of "be ready and prepared".


Compatable with what?

I contend ...

21 posted on 06/29/2010 5:27:13 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple, fight or die.)
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To: !1776!
The subtle dig in the article is - conservative ideals and respect for the Constitution are not compatible.

We really need to get better at countering this kind of BS.

That's not true. I doubt that you're familiar with the editorial attitude of the NY Sun. They're quite conservative. They used to be a broadsheet on weekdays, IIRC. Now it's a weekly online, but it's still conservative. Check their homepage.

22 posted on 06/29/2010 6:12:25 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: !1776!

The 2nd:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

The 14th:
“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;...”

Can’t get much clearer than that once the “Militia” history is understood. In fact one can argue the 2nd amendment is sufficient - it’s hard to argue with “shall not be infringed”. Seems to me here in CA that telling me I can’t carry openly or concealed is infringing on my right to “bear arms”.


23 posted on 06/29/2010 6:45:09 PM PDT by reardensteel
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To: neverdem

The expression isn’t about locking the action but to locking the safety. On old flintlocks you had to put the lock all the way down on the frizzen for safety in order to load until you got to the part of putting powder in the pan, or a cap on the nipple in the case of percussion arms, the lock was then put into the “half cock” position, which gave rise to the expression, “Don’t go off half cocked”. On most military long arms it is possible to engage the safety before loading the firearm. On the range the person in charge gives the order to “lock and load” at which time the shooters engage the safeties and then load the piece.


24 posted on 06/29/2010 6:54:02 PM PDT by calex59
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To: neverdem
That's not true. I doubt that you're familiar with the editorial attitude of the NY Sun. They're quite conservative. They used to be a broadsheet on weekdays, IIRC. Now it's a weekly online, but it's still conservative. Check their homepage.

You are correct - I am not familiar with the editorial attitide of this newspaper. And I want to thank you for making a point that encouraged me to re-read the article and think about it again.

Doing so - I still don't really like how the states rights versus conservative principles are briefly presented. That said, on second, and third reading - particularly with your help identifying a different perspective to view from, I am beginning to get a better appreciation of their point.

I am not too proud to admit that my first read, impression, and reaction might have been a bit lopsided in this case. Still not exactly sure if that is the case, but can better appreciate what might be better presented as an effort to provoke thought rather than an attack.

I appreciate your pointing this out - we are only as good so far as we are willing to fix our imperfections and challenge our opinions.

Take care.

25 posted on 06/29/2010 8:15:21 PM PDT by !1776!
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To: !1776!
Still not exactly sure if that is the case, but can better appreciate what might be better presented as an effort to provoke thought rather than an attack.

That's why I changed my response as follows:

Initially, it was: "That's paranoid nonsense."

After second thought it was: "That's nonsense," with an explanation.

Finally, it was: "That's not true." I try to correct misunderstanding with an explanation when I can.

26 posted on 06/30/2010 12:24:51 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Second Amendment Special - better late than never!

John Lott Jr.: Supreme Court Gun Ban Ruling Can Make Us All Safer

Thomas Sowell: Gun-Control Laws - The Supreme Court interpreted the Second Amendment correctly.

Democrats quietly cheer high court gun ruling

MCDONALD, OTIS, ET AL. v. CHICAGO, IL I haven't finished Alito's opinion.

P.S. I've received satisfactory explanations for the command, Lock and Load.

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

27 posted on 06/30/2010 1:03:04 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: !1776!; All
re: 14th Amendment and "incorporation"

I am no great constitutional scholar like Obozo (gag) but the 2nd Amendment does NOT limit itself to acts of the US Congress (whereas the 1st Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law...."). In the 2nd Amendment the language is unrestricted and should not require any fancy "incorporation" argument about the 14th Amendment to apply to every governmental entity in the US of A:

"...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
28 posted on 06/30/2010 2:37:55 AM PDT by Enchante ("The great enemy of clear language is insincerity." -- George Orwell --)
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To: Enchante

The whole idea of “incorporation” is somewhat of a fraud.

Outside of the original 13 States, any state that joins the union should accept the rules. And the rules are the Constitution and all the amendments.


29 posted on 06/30/2010 3:05:41 AM PDT by djf
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To: Yosemitest; 04-Bravo

Thanks for the explanations. Very interesting.


30 posted on 06/30/2010 3:19:37 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: neverdem

The old retired DI who taught a bunch of us 12 year olds to shoot NRA smallbore used to say Load and Lock. Almost all of us were shooting single-shot .22 bolt guns.

That old program was a great thing. You’d get badges and medals at various points as your scores went up in the various shooting positions, and you’d get your mom to sew them on your shooting vest. Fun stuff.


31 posted on 06/30/2010 3:20:01 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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To: neverdem
What's the origin of that bass ackwards statement? A round has to be loaded into the action of a firearm before the action can be locked.
I see you got your answer :-)

But let me add that 'Lock & Load also would pertain to a Bolt Action Mauser, like the K-98, or the 'Modern' Yugo 48 & 48A.

The Safety on the Bolt has three positions:
Pretty sure the 03 Springfield has the same 'Lock & Load' procedure. And many other bolt action Rifles. A lot was 'ripped off' the Mauser design.

And here's something I found on the 3 Position 'Mauser' Safety and its advantages:

Position One (Right) = boom!
Position Two (Up) = You can clear the chamber but the firing pin is still blocked from forward movement.
Postion Three (Left) = no boom, and and the action won't cycle, which is good because twigs and such can't pry your bolt open without you're knowing it. The firing pin is physically blocked from forward movement.
Paul Mauser was one smart dude, like Germany's John Browning.
32 posted on 06/30/2010 4:43:42 AM PDT by Condor51 (SAT CONG!)
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To: neverdem
Justices Breyer, Ginsburg, Stevens, and Sotomayor — all dissented and said that the second of the 10 amendments that make up the bill of rights should not apply to the states and that the states should be able to do what they want to.

This ought to put the lie to Kagan's statements that politics shouldn't enter in to SCOTUS decisions.

How can some of the 10 Amendments (s/b capitalized) apply, but the 2nd not?

33 posted on 06/30/2010 5:41:47 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: frogjerk

We need two more Justice Thomsases, but for that we need a majority in the Senate.

Keep the eye on the prize, FRiend.


34 posted on 06/30/2010 5:44:48 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: reardensteel

Yes, the “reasonable” infringements argument is made up of nothing. It is utter nonsense.

They pretend we cannot read for ourselves. Sadly most don’t.

I’ve been reminding family and friends to read the Declaration and the Constitution, especially the Amendments this holiday. We’re doing it in our home.

Imagine if for the last several decades at least once a year every American read those two documents. We’d not be where we are today.


35 posted on 06/30/2010 5:49:32 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


36 posted on 06/30/2010 6:41:38 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: neverdem
Finally, it was: "That's not true." I try to correct misunderstanding with an explanation when I can.

And you did it well.

37 posted on 06/30/2010 10:17:53 AM PDT by !1776!
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To: neverdem

Always. One should always be prepared to defend one’s self, their family, their property, their treasury, their health and well bEing, their liberty, and their life against any criminal tyrant that would threaten thrum.

I do not care if the tyrant is a local criminal, a druggie, a foreign criminal, a foreign nation or terrorist, or rogues and marxists and their enablers in our own government at any level. That last one is really what the 2nd amendment is all about.

An unloaded gun in a locked footlocker will not be much good in the moment of crisis.


38 posted on 06/30/2010 11:57:45 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

Thanks for your comment. I hope you’re having a speedy recovery.


39 posted on 06/30/2010 3:12:20 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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