Squad cars and other vehicles are parked on the Robert and Rita Rassier farm near where Jacob Wetterling was abducted in 1989 in St. Joseph, Minn., Wednesday.
Posted on 06/30/2010 3:30:07 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB
5 EYEWITNESS NEWS has confirmed Stearns County investigators are at a property in the area where Jacob Wetterling was abducted more than 20 years ago.
Neighbors report seeing several unmarked law enforcement vehicles Wednesday morning at the property in St. Joseph. A sheriff's office squad car is parked at the entry to the driveway.
The sheriff's office tells 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that, "an investigation is occurring today, but details of that investigation are restricted by a Stearns County court order."
The sheriff's office would not release any other details about the investigation and gave no indication when more details would be released.
(Excerpt) Read more at kstp.com ...
Now it is so frequent that it's not so shocking as when Jacob disappeared.
Kind of scary (and downright SLOPPY) if THIS is the biggest search in 20 years, they should searched the last place he was seen decades ago.
Supposedly there's a search warrant and they aren't allowed to discuss it, but I found this over at Websleuths:
"Authorities involved in the investigation said the search came after two young agents working the case took a fresh look at the file.
"'There were no new tips that sparked the search, no nothing, just young cops looking at the file and they said 'Maybe we should go take a look,' " said an official familiar with developments.
"Asked if the agents were merely working off a hunch, the official said, 'Yeah.'"
Won’t it miraculous if they can solve this horrid enigma?
Yeah, I’ve been reading up on the investigation since I told you about it earlier. What’s this new thing about the gunman stepping out of the woods and that there wasn’t a vehicle?!? Talk about blowing the investigation for all those years. One article said they were hauling out furniture from a building on the farm. Another said there were trucks taking away dirt. This one says the old man goes to church every day. Could the family be fanatics? Could it be that the now 54 year old son who is being talked about somehow warped by zealot parents? The son has never lived anywhere but at the home except for 2 years at college and he’s never married. He was an elementary band teacher and currently has private music lessons. Just throwing that out there.
http://www.twincities.com/ci_15411710?nclick_check=1
Uh, the man was masked.
Hmmm thx.
Don’t recall the case.
Ok, so first we have a vehicle and then no vehicle and now we have a masked gunman but two sketches of the suspect’s face (linked). What the heck is going on with this investigation??? No wonder it’s still unsolved after two decades.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wetterling_jacob.html
IF I remember correctly, the "masked" man was actually wearing pantyhose or a nylon over his face, and that's why the kids had to help a police artist sketch the suspect.... I think.
I don't know WHY they call it a mask, when it obviously was SHEER NYLON stocking material -- so it disguised his face, as opposed to covered it.
I am really shocked that they didn't search this farm with a fine tooth comb right after the crime. They always kept talking about a CAR, but that was wrong, it was a local who came forward in 2004 who was driving the car -- I hope we learn more about him.
I'm just floored that this FAMOUS case, that it turns out that the initial investigation obviously was SLOPPY.
How so very very very sad for the Wetterlings. Also, there were lots of online comments through the years, here and there, implicating priests from some nearby college -- and that's a really nasty accusation, particularly if the LEOs didn't search the scene of the disappearance.
I'm just floored.... ya know????
I presume that, like many Catholics of his peer group, he goes to mass frequently, not just on Sundays. Turns out his son, the band teacher, also teaches classes at colleges called St Benedicts and St.Johns, presumably Catholic.
Back in the day when I was a good Catholic, we’d go to mass on Sunday and Catechism on Wednesday night. Some of our parents would go to Wednesday night mass to wait on us. I noticed there were several comments here and there from locals who claim the St. Johns Abby knows the truth so perhaps there is something to this. Other comments say the son was their teacher and he’s creepy. Some wonder if other unsolved incidents might be related. Who knows.
There are a handful of cases that somehow grab your heart and this one certainly has for many people. It’s so unbelievable that the investigation seems so mishandled from the start. I doubt there would be much evidence to be found after all these years but it’s good to hear there are new investigators on the case.
The video is a must see. It explains the car and how so much was probably missed at the time. More importantly, watch until the very end and hear what the suspect says... it’ll give you chills....
THX.
Not sure I’ll watch.
Plenty sobering stuff re Israel, OThuga, oil well etc.
bump
It is very difficult to comprehend that such a famous reknown missing child's case was so sloppily handled from the get-go, and yet none of the experts ANYWHERE, ever seemed to notice???
What's wrong with this picture?
Frankly.... and I apologize for appearing conspiratorial, but to me.... it seems that for NOBODY to have noticed this speaks to me of an "inside" job -- and I'm not referring to profs or teachers, but I am very curious about the first team of investigators..... WHAT else is a person to think; HOW else to react to such shoddy work?????
But what is worse yet... this case became known everywhere... why didn't anybody ever notice any problems??
I wonder who the new investigators are, and I wonder where they received their education? HOW is it possible that it took a new generation to hone in on this?
OF course, we could all be totally mistaken, a poster at WS mentioned that this search might not be about JW, but about someone named something like Josh Guimond.(sp)
The search warrants will NOT be made public, as if they were, it could interfere in the investigation in the disappearance of Jacob Wetterling.
It will be several weeks before the forensic analysis of items retrieved from the farm is complete; the specific items were not described.
Elsewise, nothing else seems to have been offerred by the LEOs.
Thanks. I’ve been reading up on the case since yesterday. The store is right at 1 mile from their house but it’s no longer a store. Google street view has the sign blurred and I haven’t looked to see what it is today.
No one seems to know where the sketches of the man originated but it wasn’t from the boys. From what I gather, they may have come from witnesses at the convenience store or from a prior abduction in the area 9 months before which might be linked somehow.
From the video link I posted above, it’s from back in 2004. If the neighbor’s voice is a true recording and not computer mangled, he has a deep voice. The boys reported the abductor had a deep voice. And who doesn’t bother to find out why there’s police on their property and helicopters flying over and half the county driving by? Very strange dude.
This link has a bit more info from what happened that night:
Patty says they decided AT THE LAST MINUTE to go to a friend’s party. Ok, so that means a possible stalker wouldn’t have known this plan although he might have jumped on the possibility seeing the parents leave the children home alone and then the boys later rode their bikes on the road alone if he was lurking around the house.
But here’s what I don’t understand. Oct. 22, 1989 was a Sunday. There are no holidays for Monday, the 23rd, so why was the family out and about on a school night??? Parents going out for a party on a Sunday night (who schedules Sunday night parties?) when they have kids that need to be in bed and they have school and work the next day? The oldest girl is at a sleepover??? Jacob’s friend is allowed to go to their house so his parents weren’t worried about school the next day either. Then they’re allowed to go rent a movie at 9 pm so the Wetterlings knew the kids would be up late watching the movie until after 11 pm. Yes, the kids did attend school because the dad made mention of that. So, what am I missing here?
Before Mr. and Mrs. Wetterling left, Patty order pizza for the kids. The drive to the party was about a half hour so the pizza delivery guy/gal would have been delivering the pizza about the time the parents called back home with the friends’ phone number. I wonder if the pizza had been delivered or not and by whom and did the police ever interview the delivery person and his/her co-workers?
About the car. That was supposedly cleared up by a guy who has recently come forward to say he had heard about the incident on his scanner. It was nearby, so he drove over to the scene. He was in his early twenties at the time. He said the police never questioned him. He said he had seen the bikes by the road. However, it seems that Aaron (Jacob’s friend) was riding a scooter so that is different from most reports. Does anyone know what kind of scooter?
I have two theories: One, someone was stalking (for whatever reason) around the home and knew the kids were alone and the boys being out on the road was a prime opportunity. Or two, the neighbor did it and waited for them to come back by his place on their way home. Either way, I don’t believe it was an outsider to the community.
Ok, so this says Monday was a school holiday. Columbus Day would have been like the week before so what’s this holiday?
http://www.startribune.com/local/64675297.html?page=2&c=y
Is it possible that there were teacher meetings that day? And if so, then where was that band teacher on Monday?
Good question. He did so not want to be disturbed that night so how was he behaving the next day? I’m sure with all the commotion that any pretense of teachers meetings or whatever it was was canceled so it might not be that anyone paid much attention to him in particular. Everywhere I’ve read comments of his former students, they always say he was a bit off but nothing specific. Seems he, Mr. Bee Bop, was not only a band teacher but also the girls’ basketball coach.
I’ve been wondering what with it being a small town and all and that last names carry power, well, I came across this in the comment section of http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2010/07/jacob-wetterling-abduction-search-underway-on-neighbors-farm/comment-page-1 :
“Someone mentioned how mayor of St. Joseph is/was Al Rassier. Age 54, same age as Dan Rassier. Cousins? Relative? Nevertheless, maybe why main suspect has remained “free” all of these years. Also, Al has one son, Josh, 32. Consequently, the same age that Jacob would (is) have been.”
"A few days later authorities thought they had another break. Witnesses claimed they saw an unusual man in his 50s in two St. Joseph convenience stores the day Jacob went missing, including at the Tom Thumb. The man, described as 6 feet tall with a large build and receding white hair, had silently glared at customers and did not buy anything. An alert was issued, as was a sketch. No results."
http://www.checotahpolice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=31
Good article. I don’t see how it could have been a stranger in the store. He wouldn’t have known the area or where the boys were headed. Aaron said he’d heard a noise on the way to the store so I’m thinking someone was already there.
Let’s say the farmer’s son walked down to the mailbox (the Witterling’s road has street mailboxes so that’s probably the way mail was delivered in ‘89) and saw the boys. He may have gotten ticked off if they were being loud and joking. Maybe he’d been mad at them over a period of time running up and down his road. Or since there’s a universal rivalry between band kids and athletes, maybe he had overheard Jacob mouthing off about band nerds and he felt he needed to be taught a lesson. I get the impression he wasn’t the girls’ basketball coach until years later. Anyway, knowing they would be back soon, he lay in wait for them. He had been a teacher at the school for about 10 years by then so he donned his mama’s stocking to hide his identity. He would have known about the prior abduction that occurred 9 months before so he might have done a copy cat. Patty says Jacob was stubborn so things might not have gone as smoothly as the perp thought they would and instead of releasing him relatively unharmed as the other boy had been, this time things turned from bad to ugly.
It just doesn’t make any sense that a teacher would be so disinterested that night knowing it might have been one of his students and his neighbor. Although, since the parents were gone, he might have been doing drugs and wanted to stay as far away from the cops as possible. No matter what the reason for his attitude, it was all very strange.
Learning about Mr. Wetterling (Ba hai’ and NAACP), they both must be “peaceable folk”. Much more so than I would be knowing every day I drove to town I’d have to pass by that farm and what possibly happened there. Strange Patty says they don’t know the farmer’s son. Patty says they haven’t moved or changed their phone number hoping Jacob would return one day. I wonder if they haven’t moved partly to show the neighbor they are still there and watching. I wonder what the other neighbors think.
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1636867.shtml?cat=1
The family confirms that the truck loads of what appeared to be dirt removed from their property was mainly ash. The ash, they say, is from their wood burning boiler that heats the farm.
Speaking exclusively to 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS, Stearns County Attorney Janelle Kendall referred to the items removed from the Rassier property as “evidence.” Kendall also notes that we haven’t seen everything removed from the rural Central Minnesota farm."
Truckloads of ash were taken from the property, mostly from the wood-burning boiler used to heat the farm.
Hennepin County Sheriff Rich Stanek used to investigate homicides. He said just a very small amount of bone fragment a pinhead-size bit of blood is enough to find DNA, even 20 years later, even if it's been burned.
"It's very hard to destroy all evidence related to a crime," said Stanek.
He pointed to the case of Katie Poirier. Investigators found a fragment of her tooth years ago in Donald Blum's fire pit.
Investigators in recent weeks developed probable cause that led to the search of the property, he said. They were then able to get additional resources to help with the search.
He wouldn't comment on what additional probable cause was developed, saying that would be counter-productive to the investigation.
Hope this finally gets solved and the Wetterlings finally know. Sad. Very sad.
Josh G was a "fellow band geek" to this friend who wrote the article.
http://www.findjoshua.com/FromAFriend.htm
I'm just appalled... the LAST place Jacob is seen is in the driveway of the local school band teacher & adjunct music prof at St. John's; and another disappeared young male in the SAME area is described by a close friend as a "BAND GEEK.
This is HORRIFYING, do you think that the LEOs never noticed this???
http://www.findjoshua.com/view.asp
According to Bob Guimond -- absolutely NOTHING was ever investigated in his grandson's disappearance.
I wonder if there is something wrong with LE in that neck of the woods.
HOW could they have NOT recognized that the last place Jacob was seen was in the band teacher's driveway ----- AND that Joshua Guimond was referred to as a "BAND GEEK."
I mean.... HELLO! Is anybody home??
O-M-G. I didn’t want to put something on the thread so check your mail.
Believe me, I do understand. The more I read, the more I am absolutely repulsed by many POTENTIAL factors in these cases, so close in space, and the fact that Jacob & Josh look like brothers is just eerie. SCARY.
Like you, some of this stuff is just so ... "publically unpostable."
Anyway, if any member of the public has TIPS or information about the disappearance of Josh Guimond, here's the webpage to submit info TO THE FAMILY:
I was thinking about the running marathons and sure enough found this. Scroll down about halfway:
http://www.immelman.us/news/wetterling-suspect-dan-rassier
Check out running routes. Wonder which “points” bring on the negative imaginings:
http://www.run.com/city.asp?dest=Saint+Joseph+MN
I am just shocked with how the Joshua Guimond case is being handled.
MAYBE the LEOs are actually ALSO investigating his disappearance when they sift through all the ashes from that wood burning furnace??
But they didn't mention Joshua Guimond.
But that car driver came forward in 2004 and has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Jacob's disappearance.
So . . . . it sounds to me like they spent two decades investigating a FALSE LEAD which was given to them by the person who is now their primary POI.
"....on a short list of potential suspects, even called authorities that night to report a suspicious car turning around in his driveway."
http://m.startribune.com/topic/1554-Local%20+%20Metro%20News/articles/199161639?paging=off
....In late 2003, after Sanner became sheriff, the focus changed when a man claiming to be the motorist responsible for the tire track came forward after having a casual conversation with a U.S. marshal who was a friend of a friend.He said that on the night of the kidnapping, he heard the police reports on a scanner. Curious, he drove to the site and saw the boys' bikes on the ground. He got there so quickly that he beat some of the police to the scene.He said he mentioned seeing the bikes to a St. Joseph police officer, then left.
Sanner said in 2004 that investigative records showed no sign that the man, who is not considered a suspect, had ever been interviewed.
That twist, on top of years of dead-end leads and tips to nowhere, fueled criticism and second-guessing of an investigation......"
Makes you REALLY wonder WHO is the cop who the driver spoke to about the bicycles and WHY the he|| didn't he ever report this discussion????
I mean THAT is truly weird. Was that cop ever identified? Was he a friend of the family who owns the farm???? What gives? WHO is the St. Joseph police officer who NEVER, over 20-plus years never reported that discussion????????
Bizarre!
I knew hiking trails were on the web but I didn’t know about running trails so was surprised coming across the link. It seems lots of folks are thinking along the same lines. I didn’t find a search for submitters names but he’s probably submitted others outside of St. J’s. I meant to look up places he’s done marathons. While there are probably running paths around every university, it sure does add more and more coinky dinks to all the cases.
The farm house is quite a ways away from the road for a car to be noticed just turning around. If DR was so sleepy, then why would a car by the road rouse him enough to make a call since police cars and helicopters weren’t much of a concern to him. A car would have had to have driven up the drive and turned around at the house for him to notice it if he were really in bed at 9 pm. I wonder just when or if he really did call it in. I think the only person who has said he called it in was this unknown relative and not LE. Seriously, why would he have made the report in the first place since the supposed car didn’t do anything but turn around. There was nothing to report. Besides, the time line would have been tight. You would think if there was a report the LE and FBI would have been all over him getting a description immediately. Strange (or incompetence) if they got the car dude’s tracks and this supposed mystery car mixed up. Maybe DR just claimed later there was a car as an alibi? Yes, they were looking for a car for years (turns out the innocent dude), but when did the car enter into the investigation and from whom?
I still want to know what DR was up to that night because it wasn’t sleeping. Could it be that he was out in the field when the car dude drove up?
Yeah, it would be interesting to know who the cop was that the car dude spoke with and why his name wasn’t put on a list of interviews especially since he got there so quickly.
They keep talking about the driveway being gravel and that they could see Jacob’s footprints. It would be a shame if the car dude and the cops drove over evidence. It’s very hard to determine tire treads and footprints in gravel so I wonder if the LE are telling the whole truth. If they could see Jacob’s footprints then they should have been able to see the other person’s. Drag marks show up in gravel but not so much footprints. They hint at a struggle at one point but not much else.
The locals say nothing but nice things about the old man but most say DR is odd. It’s interesting the Wetterlings also say good things about the old man but after all these years, both claim they don’t know DR (dad below and mom in a video somewhere).
http://religion-news.info/search-at-wetterling-site-is-third-since-boy-was-abducted
BTW, somewhere someone said Josh played the baritone and that he would have come in contact with DR through the brass section.
Well, small town and all. Everyone knows everyone else and is related to half the county. Then there’s the mayor with the same last name. It wouldn’t be the first time city officials covered up for kin.
Imagine TWO DECADES searching for a car that never existed. Imagine TWO DECADES of treating as credible a report about a non-existant car from the person who becomes the primary POI.
It's just shocking.
The driver had heard about the action on his police scanner. He arrived there BEFORE most of the police.
It was way later on in the night when the helicopters and massive police presence happened.
Here is a link to the text-version cache at google of a blog about a man that the Wetterlings knew -- because he was OBSESSED with Jacob, painted a portrait of him, and met the Wetterlings so that he could share "psychic" info with them.
Right?
Okay, now take a little look at this....
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 WI - Possible break in Jacob Wetterling case
MILWAUKEE -- A Milwaukee man's confession - just a few days before his death - may provide a major break in the Jacob Wetterling case.
Police received a tip in mid-December that Vernon Seitz, 62, confessed to his psychiatrist that he had killed two children, according to information in a search warrant , obtained by WTMJ-TV, Milwaukee. The psychiatrist told KARE 11 this afternoon that Seitz confessed ......
St. Joseph crowds delight in parade, festival fun
ST. JOSEPH — Residents here continued a July Fourth pastime while hoping to end another rite that dates back more than two decades: Waiting for closure to the unsolved abduction of Jacob Wetterling. The Church of St. Joseph Parish Festival brings a crowd to St. Joseph every year......
[___snip___]
......Lauer and other festivalgoers also voiced concern for Wetterling's family and for Robert, Rita and Dan Rassier, the family whose property was searched. "I just hope they get this settled... for the families' sakes," Lauer said.....
Sorry, I was rambling about the one car or supposed two cars. Bottom line, I don’t believe DR saw or reported a car.
IOW, the LE let the festival stuff be driven out by who knows who right in the middle of the digging?!? Who knows what else might have been driven out. No wonder this remains unsolved, grrrrr!
Yeah, I’ve read about Seitz and he was one sick, sick monster. Sadly, they’ll never know how many kids he abducted and killed. They’ve tried to link him to most every unsolved case around because of all the info he kept on missing children cases. I just hope cops don’t just willy nilly write off cases to Seitz like they did with Henry Lee Lucas who delayed the electric chair by confessing to hundreds or thousands of murders. FYI, a co-worker’s relative was killed and friend’s landlady was killed and the LE tried to close those two unsolved cases with a confession from Lucas. The problem was Lucas (I suspect much like Seitz) was obsessed enough about various cases that he could lead the cops on a merry chases by telling them just enough about cases that they believed he might have been involved when in the end he wasn’t. But who knows.
Check out the sex offender map of St. J. Search any town and if the LE is on the up and up, there will be several registered offenders in every community. There’s about 20 in my small town. In fact there’s nearly 20 in the dozen small towns I’ve typed in, so that begs the question why the St. J. search shows only one over in St. Cloud and even the priests don’t show up. Maybe the priests aren’t listed because they haven’t been legally charged but I find it hard to believe it’s the safest place in the country to live. Can you say cover up?
Surprising that the "restricted" priests are not mentioned -- however, do you suppose that not one of them was ever convicted, and thus would NOT show up anywhere, officially?
I'll bet that that website called BEHIND THE PINE CURTAIN would have details about the number of sex offenders within a hundred miles of Collegeville. A.W.R. Sipe seems to be the website owner, and he's written LOTS of books about celibacy & the lack thereof, and the Catholic Church. Apparently he was at St.Johns for DECADES.
I did not realize that his family wasn't notified immediately when he disappeared.
Really disgusting if true.
Google TEXT-only cache version of discussion about Josh Guimond at godlike productions dot com.
HORRRRRORS!!
http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/?p=1556
Meet Dan Rassier's Pedophile Priest, and Other Associates
http://www.findjoshua.com/aboutjosh3.htm
Josh in 2000 on a band trip to Austria and Germany.
check your mail
Kevin was 21 at the time. He heard something on the scanner. Saw a police car speed by his house.
Curious, he tried to follow the squad. He was there so fast there was no police crime scene tape around the bikes and scooter yet. He drove away and told a police officer what he'd seen.
Kevin: "He said, yeh we know all about that. I know about the bikes. And that was it. It was like I was bothering him. We backed out and left and that was it."
Trish Van Pilsum: "He didn't take your name or phone number."
Kevin: "He didn't take my name."
Trish Van Pilsum: "He didn't ask, did you see a man lurking around?"
Kevin: "Didn't ask me a thing."
Nor, it appears, did the officer pass along his conversation with Kevin to investigators. It strikes the new investigators now working on the case 14 years later as strange. It also strikes them as a huge problem.
In fact, investigators didn't know about Kevin at all until this October [2003].
This came about because he met a federal marshal at a party who urged Kevin to talk to the lead investigator of the Wetterling investigation.
Kevin: "He was really shocked. 'Cause after I told him who I talked to, what I seen, he couldn't believe he didn't know about me. In reality, I could have been the kidnapper and they never would have found me."
In fact, of the thousands and thousands of pages of leads, none places Kevin at the scene around the time of the kidnapping.
A source close to the case said they wasted 14 years looking for him.
There’s also a video of that interview. It’s totally CRAZY that the cop didn’t follow up. Even the cops (I think it was the chief back then?) admit there were lots of egos between them and the FBI so info wasn’t shared. What a shame. Makes you wonder how much more was overlooked.
And what if the cop wasn’t a cop but just told the car dude he was... Like he said, he could have been the kidnapper or even the “cop” could have been the kidnapper. Like the boys said, it was dark and hard to see. Did he have on a uniform? Did he show the car dude his badge? Was he in a police car? We don’t know.
It’s interesting that everyone keeps saying “bikes” when Jacob and Trevor had bikes, but Aaron had a push scooter. I suppose just glancing over into the ditch (and how did car dude see into the ditch in the dark?) one would just see handle bars and wheels and assume there were bikes but that’s just one more inaccuracy. Oh, and Aaron’s video (a couple years ago as an adult), he said the guy had a hand gun but, again, it’s reported as a “shot gun or hand gun.” I would think someone who just got back from Iraq would know the difference and if he said it was a hand gun then a hand gun it was.
Back to the car dude - ok, so he’s been cleared but has his last name ever been released? I’m sure he’s known in the community but I haven’t seen his last name. Back then people listened to scanners as a pastime so his story is believable. Where did he live to get there so quickly? Or were the cops that slow? It’s not likely there were many officers on the force or on duty that night. Were they city police or sheriff deputies who might have been several miles away in another part of the county? I assume some were at home and took time to get dressed. So many questions.
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