Skip to comments.Why Cloward-Piven Will Eat Itself
Posted on 07/03/2010 12:34:50 AM PDT by neverdem
Long considered a tool for fomenting socialist revolution in America, the "Cloward-Piven Strategy" was a sociopolitical theory developed by left-wing ivory tower-dwellers Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. I'm sure the foil hat-wearing adherents of this line of thinking will complain here about my oversimplification of the plan and general lack of nuance, but basically, it seeks to undermine the (American) government by overloading said government with dependents needing welfare.
The Cloward-Piven Strategy will fail because WTSHTF The American People will shrug off the fleas.
The scary part is when people that LOVE the dependence.....”just like your kids will never leave as long as the dinners are warm, and the sheets are changed occasionally” becomes acceptable and the norm. If you allow the kids to stay until the bank account is empty, the Visa is maxxed and your ability to support them is gone....they will naturally move on to another target....the US govt.
The scary part is when people that LOVE the dependence.....”just like your kids will never leave as long as the dinners are warm, and the sheets are changed occasionally” becomes acceptable and the norm. If you allow the kids to stay until the bank account is empty, the Visa is maxxed and your ability to support them is gone....they will naturally move on to another target....ANY govt agency. Whether US based, or worldwide. They don’t care which body they are feeding off of, as long as it is warm.
That is Cloward-Piven Theory. The author needs to research his subject before writing about it.
i don’t believe there is a timeline for C/P this could go forever or until the blamesters are booted in Nov
Not so easy. The kids will revolt ala Bill Ayers statement to “kill your parents”. They will then willingly await the handout they think they are entitled to. Natural attrition then follows as they are incapable of providing for themselves. It doesn’t matter if you have an Amex black card as it has no value. Violence ensues. Those that remain are grateful for their rice and beans. They comply and accept any “allowance” and believe that life is good.
I dunno. Everyone that I know that had a boomerang kid hates it. And the kids aren’t too happy either
There’s fewer of them than us. And we have the benefit of actual weapons training.
yep. When the shtf, we just need to sss.
Great little 17 ounce 2” inch .38 shooter my husband gave me for Mother’s Day. He had to get himself one to match. This is pathetic that we have come to this.
“The Cloward-Piven Strategy will fail because WTSHTF The American People will shrug off the fleas.”
yes you are right.
its the 4th tomorrow have a good one.
The new candy store is funded by MASS MURDER. At least it has been in every other commie regime, including Adolph's!
"You're not going to be able to eat what you want, or as much of it."~B. Wacky Insane~0 on the campain trail.
Mass murder through starvation......Hello..... anybody listening....
If the demands on the state are so great that they force a breakdown of the existing bureaucracies, basically bankrupting the government, how in blazes is it then possible to further increase the size of government to provide everyone the same pay every year? It isn't.
the problem the author is having here is in looking at this as a socialist/communist does. They aren't just seeking to increase dependents so that more dependents can be added. They are seeking to overload the system so the entire government collapses...and then they will blame capitalism for the collapse they brought about and then will install their own system without the hindrance of capitalism and the constitution. The author isn't seeing the extent of the destruction sought be the cloward and piven agents.
People argue it won't work...well, it's been working, just look at the level of dependence coupled with the unfunded liabilities the US has now all tied to people's retirements. And then look at the riots in Greece. It can happen here...it likely will happen here.
How can you blame people for getting angry when they've paid into SS their whole lives and then won't be able to get anything out because the Ponzi scheme is failing, but they had counted on that money for their old age?
Where the Cloward and Piven agents are wrong, I believe, is that they will be the ones to pick up the pieces after they've destroyed the US. They apparently think that they will be in position to slip into the power vacuum and everyone will recognize them as a legitimate authority. I don't think it'll be so...they misjudge human nature and the craving for freedom in the face of the tyranny they seek to impose.
So the end will be, I think they will be successful in destroying the US, but they will fail in their attempt to take power. The result will be ugly.
The left and some members of the right are suffering from the same delusion. Communists in every country think the same way. Not all people in all cultures do. We have all heard the expression “American exceptionalism”, but has anyone actually thought about what that means?
Our exceptionalism doesn’t refer to the fact that we do everything better than just about everybody- although that is true. It is about the kind of “stock” we are. We aren’t a group descended from nobles OR peasants; we have never been raised to bow or bend a knee. When the left refers to the majority of us as “cowboys” or “rednecks” they do so without realizing the compliment they pay us. Our heroes and forefathers were rebels, frontiersmen, explorers and, yes, cowboys. Getting up and getting going are a character trait. The idea of one guy inventing a lightbulb in his basement or the microchip in his garage are “business as usual” in THIS country.
We are what we are, and that was lazy until recently. Cloward, Piven, Marx, Obama and all the rest of the disfunctional left can ONLY ultimately fail here. Americans will NOT be told that they “can’t” do this, or say that, or go there...not for long.
This I heartily believe.
As long as Americans are armed this will not happen - even though I can imagine someone trying it if they have the armed forces on their side - unlikely I would think!
“The Cloward-Piven Strategy will fail because WTSHTF The American People will shrug off the fleas.”
The strategy like all left wing revolutionary strategies is the equivalent of the dog catching the proverbial car.
“I caught it, now what?”
Actually it can’t go on forever. Maggie Thatcher had it right (God bless her) - Socialism works until you run out of other people’s money. Essentially, Liberalism and C/P are a massive ponzi scheme.
It is already happening. My small County has about a $135 million budget. The portion that actually goes to basic services like the sheriff, District Attorney, Libraries and internal government is only about $22 million, plus mandates of about $11 million = about $33 million. About $10 million goes to the Road Dept. The rest goes to welfare, CPS, child support, in home support for the aged, public health and mental health services.
This year, we had to cut most library services, the museum, a vital fire station, and sheriff’s office coverage in outlying areas. Year after next our road budget will be half what it is now because the Secure Schools and Communities Act money will lapse.
The point is that our government budget is being consumed by entitlements and services to basically the same bad actors while we can no longer afford basic services to the general public. Ther is something definitely wrong!
Outstanding post!!! :)
Happy Fourth, 13Sisters76! :)
I especially loved your comment about Americans not being raised to bow—if I knew how to post a picture, I’d do so of Obama bowing to the Saudi king. :)
Nanny P is sooooo omg i don’t even have words to describe the most recent statements she has made on unemployment check
Those that remain are grateful for their rice and beans. They comply and accept any allowance and believe that life is good.>>>>>>>>>>>
After C/P crashes everything we will will have millions more dependents who will be very grateful to get something anything from the Gubbermint. It may be one tenth of what they can scam their way into getting today. But they will be grateful and dependent on those regular rice and beans meals at the Obama soup kitchens
You don’t comply with the regime, you don’t get your soup kitchen card.
You county seems modest...... But in many counties, providing present day services is cut into by paying out bloated pensions to county retirees. This is going on all over California
You omitted pensions.
Well said, I agree with much of what you write. I don’t believe that the author is too far off the mark here.
Wouldn’t you agree that we are seeing Cloward-Pliven in action right now in this county? It seems as if our current government doesn’t mind working overtime at the moment destroying everything in the country that we need in order to support ourselves and remain an independent people.
I further agree with the author in that the one thing which Cloward and Pliven never counted on when they developed their theory was me and other citizens of like mind. I’m well armed, well trained (USMC), and have a disposition to use pillagers harshly. This would include thieving politicians as well.
If I have to live in a new “state” that consists of only my own small farm, I will live freely in it. Come and take it.
>”Then, Cloward and Piven would have us believe, a new, bigger government/bureaucracy/candy store of others’ labors will arise to make sure everything is fair for everyone forever. “
...”The new candy store is funded by MASS MURDER. At least it has been in every other commie regime, including Adolph’s!
“You’re not going to be able to eat what you want, or as much of it.”~B. Wacky Insane~0 on the campain trail.
Mass murder through starvation......Hello..... anybody listening”....
You have read and know history and the main thing you know is that human nature never really changes. You know all this will be repeated under the right circumstances and you know the signs that accompany a path in that direction. We are on that path..What we desperately need is mass education, but how do we get it when so many people are struggling to survive each day and somehow get enough money for their basic needs. The answer is to not look to government but to start helping such neighbors in every way we can outside of government. Has it ever been clearer that government is NOT there to help, but to destroy?
...”It is already happening. My small County has about a $135 million budget. The portion that actually goes to basic services like the sheriff, District Attorney, Libraries and internal government is only about $22 million, plus mandates of about $11 million = about $33 million. About $10 million goes to the Road Dept. The rest goes to welfare, CPS, child support, in home support for the aged, public health and mental health services.
This year, we had to cut most library services, the museum, a vital fire station, and sheriffs office coverage in outlying areas. Year after next our road budget will be half what it is now because the Secure Schools and Communities Act money will lapse.
The point is that our government budget is being consumed by entitlements and services to basically the same bad actors while we can no longer afford basic services to the general public. Ther is something definitely wrong!”...
Much of our tax money goes to fund outrageous public pensions. When you have an automatic escalator in place which enables people to eventually receive more from their pension than they did working, you are into a system which cannot be sustained.
“That is Cloward-Piven Theory. The author needs to research his subject before writing about it. “
We can’t get our minds around the logic of this. On one hand it seems totally insane to destroy the entire infrastructure and expect to gain control. Gain control of what?
On the other hand I am convinced that Soviet Communism has had a long term strategy to conquer us and this is part of it.
It’s been said before; They are playing chess while we are playing checkers.
“Now that the government is broke and the productive sector is broke and/or gone, who’s going to finance this?”
That’s my question; as I’ve said, The U.S. supported the Soviet Union since 1917. Its socialist system couldn’t stay afloat n its own.
Now that they’re instituiting the same unworkable system here, where is the money going to come from this time?
Pain hunger and fear makes an OBEDIENT people,and Obama&Co. know it.
Re-read the Declaration of Independence.
There's a reason we have the 2nd Amendment: and the military still believes in freedom.
Communism has always been command-and-control: decapitate it and the cells and chattering classes are helpless, as they *cannot* think for themselves.
When Palin gets elected, she ought to re-sign the Executive Order allowing targeted assassinations, and have Soros and a couple of his fellow travelers taken out with Predator drones.
And 95% of this bullsh*t would collapse instantly.
The secret to the Cloward-Piven Strategy
I agree with you.
The FReeper historians can correct me, (and if I’m wrong I hope they do) but I don’t believe this has been attempted on a population armed to the teeth.
On paper, I can see how the C/P crowd believes this would work. But in a practical sense, it never can.
It’s my opinion that by the time such a scenario comes to be, it will be a hyperinflation event, which is not here yet.
But, look around your own circle of neighbors, friends, etc. Prolly half are living paycheck to paycheck. Some due to income reduction, some out of sheer ignorance and stupidity. Those cats are the ones still buying and buying for no discernable reason.
The people who are living on gov’t checks (whether handouts or earned pensions) are the most vulnerable, as they see the gravy train as neverending. Hyperinflation will render their checks useless. This will be the ultimate Darwin test.
People who are starving, freezing, dehydrated will only be able to riot for so long. They better not depend on the gov’t to feed them, either. That’s something I’ll post more about when I do more research. Just remember this: when TSHF in Sept ‘08, one of the pleas Hank Paulson made to Pelosi included “We won’t be able to feed the American people.” That was in an interview with an international newspaper and linked on FR more than a year ago. I believe he mentions it in his book, as well.
The people who will survive the C/P plot will the people who intended to survive all along. And the ones who planned for it.
In my county, 2/3 of the budget goes to support the schools. The retired teachers and school staff are considered in the general category of retired employees, so the actual percentage of the school budget is actually greater than 2/3.
By the way...In most counties in the U.S., the government schools are the single largest employer with the largest payroll of in the county. No other business, private or public, comes even close. And...Add to that all the vendors and their employees who supply the schools. Hey! Even my dentist and his five employees are very dependent on government school dental insurance that comes into his office.
More is spent on K-12 education in this nation ( federal, local, and state combined) than on the military. And...It is a powerful and well organized voting block.
Agree lets see command-and-control:GM,bamks,stock market...
Let’s hope so.-This is a good article, but what the author doesn’t say is-and I believe his scenario-the U.S. as we know it will be finished-at least temporarily.
Best-case: the citizens take out the trash, so to speak and purge the scum seeking to destroy us from within.
The next stage is destabilization. This time [the] subverter does not care about your ideas and the patterns of your consumption; whether you eat junk food and get fat and flabby doesnt matter any more. This timeand it takes only from two to five years to destabilize a nationwhat matters [are] essentials: economy, foreign relations, [and] defense systems. And you can see it quite clearly that in some areas, in such sensitive areas as defense and [the] economy, the influence of Marxist-Leninist ideas in [the] United States is absolutely fantastic. I could never believe it fourteen years ago when I landed in this part of the world that the process [would have gone] that fast.
The next stage, of course, is crisis. It may take only up to six weeks to bring a country to the verge of crisis. You can see it in Central America now.
And, after crisis, with a violent change of power, structure, and economy, you have [the so-called] period of normalization. It may last indefinitely. Normalization is a cynical expression borrowed from Soviet propaganda. When the Soviet tanks moved into Czechoslovakia in 68, Comrade Brezhnev said, Now the situation in brotherly Czechoslovakia is normalized.
This is what will happen in [the] United States if you allow all these schmucks to bring the country to crisis, to promise people all kind[s] of goodies and the paradise on earth, to destabilize your economy, to eliminate the principle of free market competition, and to put [a] Big Brother government in Washington, D.C. with benevolent dictators like Walter Mondale, who will promise lots of thing[s], never mind whether the promises are fulfillable or not. He will go to Moscow to kiss the bottoms of [a] new generation of Soviet assassins, never mind... he will create false illusions that the situation is under control. [The] situation is not under control. [The] situation is disgustingly out of control.
Most of the American politicians, media, and educational system trains another generation of people who think they are living at the peacetime. False. [The] United States is in a state of war: undeclared, total war against the basic principles and foundations of this system. And the initiator of this war is not Comrade Andropov, of course. It's the system. However ridiculous it may sound, [it is] the world Communist system (or the world Communist conspiracy). Whether I scare some people or not, I don't give a hoot. If you are not scared by now, nothing can scare you.
But you dont have to be paranoid about it. What actually happens now [is] that unlike [me], you have literally several years to live on unless [the] United States [wakes] up. The time bomb is ticking: with every second [he snaps his fingers], the disaster is coming closer and closer. Unlike [me], you will have nowhere to defect to. Unless you want to live in Antarctica with penguins. This is it. This is the last country of freedom and possibility.
What I find amazing is some people think elections will be suspended due to a self created disaster.
We have never suspend election on the federal level in our history. IF O ever tried to do his he would be impeached with in a month. We would have our version of Honduras. The other thing is The Constitution and our military. The military can take only so much from a president who doesn’t respect the laws of our nation. One last think the federalist paper spelled it rather nicely. The States at some point would band together and disolve the the current federal goverment and replace it with the origainal intent of the Constitution. By nature humams want to be free and we can not be controled for very long.
There will be regional differences as well.
What the Communists don't understand -- unless they have plotted *far* deeper than anyone thought, say at the level of (dang it, can't find the link [*]) -- is that Americans will *fight back*.
[*] within the last month or two I read a harrowing account of the Communists in either Korea or Vietnam, where they temporarily overran a town and were driven out after three or four days: but in that short time they had killed thousands of people, almost all of whom were either known anti-Communists, or in a position to influence opinion against the Communists by having the ear of "everyman", such as taxi-drivers, etc. The Communists were able to do this since their stooges in the town had taken years to compile lists of targets and personal information about them.
Absolutely I agree that is the goal of what we're seeing from many politicians currently.
I'm not sure there is a solution that would be so obvious that they'd abandon their plans, but I suspect if there were such a thing it'd be a condition where it is clear they wouldn't have the upper hand in the power vacuum aftermath of the collapse they seek to cause.
The deal is, I think there already is, at a minimum, competition to fill that vacuum from American groups such as the Tea party folks...but liberals are typically self deluded and rather blind and dense. So it would have to be very obvious to them (which is a high threshold) that they will fail in the aftermath.
For the time being I think conservatives need to strengthen their connections in their local communities. Many already have, we are, after all, average Americans. But it is, I believe, from this strong local community base that will be the building blocks of society and resistance to the tyranny the left seeks to impose.
They are counting on a military blindly following orders during the emergency lockdown of the nation.
The writer and those believing his theory, forget that the agents of change, do not plan on maintaining a status quo in the echelon of power and governing. Every time something similar has taken place in history, you have mass starvation, police state, political purges, and serfdom. Our nation will look nothing like the one we live in now and by that time people will be weakened, disorganized, and unable to fight back.
There are only a few million in the military, if they imposed martial law how would they content with 10, 20, or 30 million snipers?
I hope there ARE that many Americans who would take up arms to protect the nation. But I don’t see many people willing to emulate the Sons of Liberty in today’s world.
Two words. Martial Law. That is the key to who winds up in charge, and they will have blue helmet help, count on it.
Bambi ain’t us.
To you, too! and to all the good Americans here- wave that flag!!!