Skip to comments.'Muslim science' fiction
Posted on 07/10/2010 2:35:04 AM PDT by Scanian
In the 16th century, astrono mer Taqi al-Din built one of the world's great observato ries in Istanbul. It rivaled that of pioneering Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe -- while it lasted.
"Taqi al-Din's observatory was razed to the ground by a squad of Janissaries, by order of the sultan, on the recommendation of the Chief Mufti," Bernard Lewis writes in his book "What Went Wrong?" "This observatory had many predecessors in the lands of Islam; it had no successors until the age of modernization."
NASA Administrator Charles Bolden caused a furor when he revealed that President Obama had directed him "to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science . . . and math and engineering."
This shouldn't be hard to do, so long as Bolden is well-versed in accomplishments rising out of the Middle East many centuries ago. It gave us what we know as Arabic numerals, although they originated in India.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
So, should we give them moon rocks with which to perform their stonings?
The Arabs had nothing to do with the invention of the modern decimal place-value system and the concept of zero that replaced the cumbersome Roman numeral system, and changed mathematics as we know it today. All they did was copy them from the Indians, and convey to the rest of the world, claiming as their own inventions.
Tell us more.
Muslims seem to have an odd conception of the Big Bang theory.
Many of their other “inventions” and “discoveries” were basically extrapolations of prior work of the Greek, Hindus and Persians, and others, from manuscripts that ended up in their hands after Europe purged their versions during the Dark Ages.
Many of their other inventions and discoveries were basically extrapolations of prior work of the Greek, Hindus and Persians, and others, from manuscripts that ended up in their hands after Europe purged their versions during the Dark Ages.
Gee, to hear Obama tell it, the Muslims have invented about nearly everything in the world that you can think of, right?
Remember his speech in Cairo? Remember the long list of Muslim inventions? Nearly every one of those seemed spurious and laughable to me because in my reading of history I don’t recall any Muslim inventions at all. I have heard over and over that they invented algebra, but I think that was taken from the Greeks — am I correct?
And now, we need to help the Muslims with their rocket technology — that is to say, we need to help them learn how to shoot rockets that land on top of our heads instead of just using jumbo jets next time — is my interpretation correct?
Very much so!
how can anyone, With half a brain doubt that Obama is a Muslim?
His father was a Muslim.
His stepfather was a Muslim.
His religion in Indonesia is clearly listed as Muslim.
Dr. John Drew, who knew him well at Occidental College, said he knew him as “a gay passionate Marxist” and a Muslim who roomed three times with Pakistani Muslim male roommates — never a hint of her girlfriend, a date, a prom, or anything else.
Remember when it was reported in the New York Times that Barack Hussein Obama could recite the Arabic call to prayer in a perfect Arabic accent with a big smile on his face???
Well, that article has been scrubbed.
I wonder why?
Know any other politicians who can recite the Arabic call to prayer? I don’t.
Ever see any interviews of his roommates? Ever notice that the first one is now 47 years old, lives in Seattle, teaches “theater arts”, and is still single? Want to bet that this man is a homosexual too? But you will never never never see any MSM in investigation of this roommate or any of the others
Just like you will never see any MSM. reporting that NASA’s new “main concern” is to help Muslim countries with their science and technology which is currently nonexistent — somehow, incredibly, insanely, it is now our job to help Muslim countries feel better.
Weirder and weirder, curiouser and curiouser, stranger and stranger.
All you have to do is take a look at the following quote to know that the Obama administration and the entire United States has now gone insane:
“to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science . . . and math and engineering.”
This is from the linked article:
This shouldn’t be hard to do, so long as Bolden is well-versed in accomplishments rising out of the Middle East many centuries ago. It gave us what we know as Arabic numerals, although they originated in India. It gave us algebra and the rudiments of trigonometry.
It gave us medical pioneers in the 10th and 11th centuries. (A significant proportion of these scientists and physicians were Christians and Jews, Lewis notes — a fact Charles “Bling” Bolden had best keep to himself.)
It’s wonderful to feel good about the work of Ibn Sina of Bukhara, who compiled an indispensable medical encyclopedia before his death in 1037, but it raises the question of what Muslim science has done for us over the last millennium or so.
The Muslim world would be better served by a frank discussion of how so much of it came to be sunk in backwardness and ignorance, although NASA’s administrator is not the natural person to lead it (nor, if he’s as smart as advertised, will he volunteer for the task).
Historian David Landes puts it starkly: “The vast bulk of modern science was of Europe’s making, especially that breakthrough of the 17th and 18th centuries that goes by the name ‘scientific revolution.’ Not only did non-Western science contribute just about nothing (though there was more there than Europeans knew), but at that point it was incapable of participating, so far had it fallen behind or taken the wrong turning.”
The short version of the story is that in the battle between science and religious obscurantism in the Islamic world, obscurantism won in a rout. Landes recounts that when the Muslims conquered Persia in the seventh century, the commander on the ground was forbidden to distribute the vast collection of captured books and scientific papers. Word came down from on high: “Throw them in the water. If what they contain is right guidance, God has given us better guidance. If it is error, God has protected us against it.”
Is an interview with this Dr. John Drew online somewhere? That was a good article. I am also convinced he is gay. What I don’t understand is why no one steps forward with information. Or maybe I do understand — pure survival instinct?
He also claimed that the Arabic, Islamic call to prayer is the ‘most beautiful sound’ one could ever hear, or so I’ve read from threads here and beyond.
Obama Espoused Radical Views in College [advocated revolution]
Dr. John Drew PhD : --- who knew him very well as a gay passionate Marxist.
Dr. John C. Drew, a grant writing consultant in Laguna Niguel, Calif., tells Newsmax he met Obama in 1980 when Obama was a sophomore at Occidental College in Los Angeles. Drew had just graduated from Occidental and was attending graduate school at Cornell University.
During Christmas break, Drew says he was at Grauman-Boss home in Palo Alto when Obama came over with Mohammed Hasan Chandoo, his roommate from Pakistan.
Barack [Obama] and Hasan showed up at the house in a BMW, and then we went to a restaurant together, Drew says. We had a nice meal, and then we came back to the house and smoked cigarettes and drank and argued politics.
For the next several hours, they discussed Marxism.
He [Obama] was arguing a straightforward Marxist-Leninist class-struggle point of view, which anticipated that there would be a revolution of the working class, led by revolutionaries, who would overthrow the capitalist system and institute a new socialist government that would redistribute the wealth, says Drew, who says he himself was then a Marxist.
The idea was basically that wealthy people were exploiting others, Drew says. That this was the secret of their wealth, that they werent paying others enough for their work, and they were using and taking advantage of other people. He was convinced that a revolution would take place, and it would be a good thing.
Drew concluded that Obama thought of himself as part of an intelligent, radical vanguard that was leading the way towards this revolution and towards this new society. ..."
Referring to Obamas quote from Dreams of My Father that he associated with Marxist professors, Drew says, What hes not saying is that he was in 100 percent total agreement with those Marxist professors.
When you understand that, Obamas later associations and policies make more sense, including why he was taken in by Rev. Wrights ideology.
Yes. And not only that, but he could recite it perfectly, in Arabic, with the perfect Arabic accent.
I guess everyone just feels that he likes to speak in Arabic, with no deeper meaning — or could it be that he was born a Muslim raised Muslim and will die a Muslim?
No one wonders why hasn’t been to church for 18 months?
No one wonders why he wants us to help Muslim countries only, using NASA, to feel better about themselves?
No one wonders why he had to cover up all the Christian symbols at Georgetown University when he gave a speech there? Who in the world would even think of such a thing? How would this even occur to any politician unless that politician was a Muslim and didn’t want to be photographed with any Christian symbols showing in the background?
Didn’t the Egyptian Minister of Defense recently announced that Obama had confessed to him in their private meetings that he was a Muslim?
The list just goes on and on — but I think I’ve listed enough for the moment.
I was a little Jakarta street kid, he said in a wide-ranging interview in his office (excerpts are on my blog, www.nytimes.com/ontheground). He once got in trouble for making faces during Koran study classes in his elementary school, but a president is less likely to stereotype Muslims as fanatics and more likely to be aware of their nationalism if he once studied the Koran with them.
Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (itll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.
Moreover, Mr. Obamas own grandfather in Kenya was a Muslim. Mr. Obama never met his grandfather and says he isnt sure if his grandfathers two wives were simultaneous or consecutive, or even if he was Sunni or Shiite. (O.K., maybe Mr. Obama should just give up on Alabama.)
The only “scientific accomplishment” that the cult of hate (i.e., Mohammedism) is to invent new and inhumane ways to kill and maim people who they don’t like.
Where are the PUBs in Congress screaming about NASA’s new mission:”To engage in nonsense, to blindly go where 0bambi sends us.”? Cut all funding until NASA returns to its original mission. Where?
Probably just gave it a catchy name. Just like Al Cohol.
“The only scientific accomplishment that the cult of hate (i.e., Mohammedism) is to invent new and inhumane ways to kill and maim people who they dont like.”
The cell phone triggered bomb... but even that is in doubt...
The real mathematicians probably were exterminated
by Islam at the Hindu kush (slaughter).
Having heard that sound myself many times in Iraq, I can assure you there is nothing "pretty" about it. It's damned creepy, actually.
This article is not very good. It repeats by insinuation the Galileo myth; with one exception, it fails to point out forcefully that the “achievements” of Islam in these countries were mainly the product of the Christian cultures and people they overran; the Arabs didn’t create algebra....in fact, virtually nothing attributed to Islamic culture was created BY Mohammadans....and then it repeats the post-Enlightenment canard about the “Enlightenment” somehow being responsible for modern science...
Actually, during the barbarian (Germanic tribes) invasions, many of the original Classical manuscripts existing in Europe had simply been destroyed or lost, not “purged.” The Classical works were still available in Byzantium, but they were lost during the Islamic invasions starting shortly after Mohammed’s invention of his cult in the 7th century.
One of the bright lights in the Dark Ages was (pre-Islamic) Spain, where a monk, St. Isidore of Sevilla, wrote a compendium of “all human knowledge” in the 7th century, including quotes from Aristotle, although most of the original works of the Classical thinkers were lost by that time.
One of the reasons that the Muslims always boast about Islamic Spain is that Spain, as Rome’s closest and most important colony, actually had still retained seats of learning at the time of the Muslim invasions in the 8th century; the Muslims simply took these over. Since most of the original Muslim rulers of Spain were recently Islamicized peoples from places such as Syria and Persia, rather than ignorant Arabs, they still retained remnants of their learned past (the pre-Islamic Persians were particularly noted for astronomy) and were able to take advantage of the Christian and Jewish scholars already working in Southern Spain.
Of course, as Islam consolidated, it became more and more hostile to learning, since Islam is fundamentally anti-rational at its core.
This is not news!
It must be noted that the rationale for knocking down Taqi's observatory had little to do with science.
Taqi is reputed to have used his tower to examine astrological events with the purpose of improving his predictions. Alas, that failed ~ he missed out on such things as a major Ottoman military defeat, the Black Death, etc.
According to one reference this allowed someone to convince the Sultan to knock down the tower and save money for further military pursuits elsewhere without distraction.
At the moment our own Sultan is knocking down the (metaphorical) towers at Cape Canaveral, and to a degree that's allowing him to spend more money on his war in Afghanistan (NOTE: "his war" isn't necessarily the same as "our war").
Makes me wonder if somebody was using NASA for astrology eh!
LOL. Maybe send our guys up there spray paint the moon into a permanent crescent shape.
That's where "zero" and algebra started.
To the West, in Egypt, trigonometry had been developed by the ancients who were certainly not Christians ~ ask Moses about that part!
The early Moslem conquests involved Syria and the Levant, Egypt and much of North Africa which were technically Christian. The big battle between Islam and Christianity occurred much later than the first few centuries.
Spain's history is far more complex than anything that can be covered in a paragraph, but suffice it to say it too had succumbed to the total economic and social collapse occasioned by the arrival of the Dark Ages in 541 AD.
A: Because it's set in the future...
It appears (I am still reading) that it became a heresy against Islam to use reason and intellect to explain the natural world since the entire justification of this religion was an utter submission to Allah in total suspension of intellect. This combined with the concept that everything is explained and all the rules are laid out in the 12th Century Sharia Law leaves little wiggle-room for intellectual expansion.
Gotta give the muslims credit for something... no one makes a better suicide bomb vest.
I’ve read some things like that myself elsewhere. Apparently it had to do with the rediscovery of Greek philosophy around the time of the Crusades. The medieval Church responded with Scholasticism, which allowed that reason and faith could coexist. The Muslim scholars (some guy named al-Shafi or something like that, among others) pretty much tossed out reason and said “faith only!” It does explain a lot about why the Islamic world has places that might as well still be the year 1200.....
Most of the lands overrun by the Muslims in the “Golden Age of Islam” were Christian...North Africa and the Middle East. Persia is probably the most significant exception. The Muslim attack on what we call “India” today came much later (beginning at the end of the 12th century - and it was genocidal in its ferocity).
As for achievements, you seem to have missed the word “mainly”. The point was, and is, that Islam has always been culturally parasitic, but a parasite that ultimately destroys its host culture.
Here is a link to an article by a historian at Northwestern that you might find interesting: http://www.mmisi.org/ir/41_02/fernandez-morera.pdf
You may also find this of interest (a letter from an Assyrian software entreprenuer attempting to educate Carly Fiorina): http://www.ninevehsoft.com/fiorina.htm
Finally, the phrase “the Dark Ages” was a propagandistic phrase coined by the poet Petrarch to exalt classical antiquity in the service of the Renaissance. Serious historians understand that the Middle Ages were far from dark and produced a great deal of technological progress, among other things. The demise of the Western Roman Empire was hardly a bad thing.
“(NOTE: “his war” isn’t necessarily the same as “our war”)”
Speaking of that, if he is such a good Muslim, why is he at war with Muslims?
This seems to be a flaw in the story about him being a closet Muslim, unless someone can explain that.
Some Muslims were very creative in the architecture for their mosques and the very artistic tiles they designed and fired for them. Muslims also had a hand in making the Damascus steel used in their superior swords during the Crusades. The other "Islamic sciences" has been debunked. They appropriated from superior cultures in India and Persia.
Muslims were not scientists and the Egyptian Pyramids were not designed/engineered/built by blacks as some Afro-centric charlatans like to teach in America
As a learned Community Organizer Obama knows how to keep the blacks in the ghetto agitated by telling them how great they are and how many things they have accomplished.
Obama is doing the same to the Muslims. Namely, tell them how great they are so they remain agitated and opposed to the USA.
A conservative’s natural instinct is to solve problems, while Obama’s natural instinct is to create problems. When we understand that is Obama’s agenda we can thwart it.
You will not convince any one any thing. There are many here are so insecure about their own beliefs they tirelessly look under rocks to find fragments that might undermine their beliefs.
As with the Obama administration, Facts are irrelevant
a “wish I knew this before” bump
interesting. wish I had your memory and education.
Even their architecture was taken from other more-advanced pre-Islamic societies in the Middle East. Don’t forget that these were cultures that had produced things such as the Hanging Gardens of Babylon (which were long gone by the rise of Islam, although Baghdad, Syria and Persia still had beautiful buildings and urban centers).
Mohammed’s Arabs had virtually nothing prior to their rampage. They were tent-dwelling nomads, and everything they appropriated, even in the middle east, was produced prior to the rise of Islam. The conquest varied only in how long it took the Muslims to destroy these other cultures and reject the things they initially seized from them.
It literally became dark, all sunsets were red for many decades afterward, plant growth withered in Northern and Western Europe, and a good deal of the event was reported in the British chronicles of that day (SEE: King Arthur, et al).
Europe's economy collapsed for roughly the next 500 years, and China's for the next 300 years. Things weren't all that good for several centuries later either.
All you need to understand how a bunch of un-educated guys dressed in last year's rags were able to move out of Arabia and conquer Damascus is note that even Byzantium hadn't paid its troops in over a century when the legions met the guys from Mecca.
The early Moslems did most of the conquering with Byzantine armies and Byzantine navies ~ who they paid!
Even if the Muslims took advanced architecture ideas from conquered peoples at least they executed well and built impressive mosques. Their tiling work is beautiful and impressive. One of the few things of beauty I see in Muslim civilization
It seems that the populations lived in misery but great expenses and efforts were made to build glorious mosques for their fake Allah and their false prophet
Yes, that's true.
Also, North Africa itself had long supplied mercenaries to other states or kings, and hiring an army was quite an acceptable practice in all of those societies. The first Muslim armies that invaded Spain were actually mercenaries hired by a Visigothic king to defeat his rivals. Needless to say, he was one of the first people killed, and then the Muslims simply pushed their way into Spain from the Mediterranean coast.
Nobody at the time understood the fact that this new cult meant that hiring North African mercenaries was no longer a good idea...
They have the best cutlery in the uncivilized world!!
My understanding is that nearly all of this the Muslims took from the Greeks or the Hindus.
For a variety of reasons the people working the caravans from Petra to Mecca to Medina had remained relatively isolated from these other devastating events, or, most likely, they were affected equally but didn't realize it due to their normally deep level of poverty and their physical isolation from the Mediterranean world.
There are interesting debates regarding the degree of European depopulation. First of all no one doubts that millions died from the plague and whatever the weather anomaly was that gave Western and Northern Europeans an incentive to burn almost every piece of furniture, parchment or other burnable in a short period from 535 to 541. Secondly, back in the days before unemployment insurance, modern machinery, food surpluses, trucks, trains, cars etc. it didn't take much of a disaster for darned near everybody near it to die if only from simple starvation.
Thirdly, there are "secondary diseases" that take the opportunity to kill under these conditions.
Whatever, the death rates were different in different places. The Eastern Empire lost just under half its people. The Western Empire probably lost over half along the Mediterranean and more like 90% in the NW.
The Arabs in the peninsula didn't know anything of this.
BTW, the invasion of the Mediterranean civilization didn't begin until AFTER Mohammad was dead and AFTER Petra was converted. You should note the name of that place ~ it's in Jordan. They appear to have gone cash at the beginning of the disaster and could pay hard money for whatever the Moslem commanders needed.
If the Arabs had been Roman Catholic Monks the outcome would have been the same!
“they invented algebra”
Probably just gave it a catchy name. Just like Al Cohol.
Good one !!!