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Eric Holder Raises Question on Death Penalty for Sept. 11 Mastermind
(AP) via CNS ^ | July 12, 2010 | Pete Yost, Associated Press

Posted on 07/12/2010 3:15:14 AM PDT by Cindy

SNIPPET: "Washington (AP) - Attorney General Eric Holder says there's a real question about whether a terrorist suspect such as self-professed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed can face the death penalty if he were to plead guilty before a military commission."

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Breaking News; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 911; democrats; dnc4alqaeda; dnc4murderers; dnc4terrorists; dncvsamericans; doj4alqaeda; doj4murderers; doj4terrorists; dojvsamericans; ericholder; globaljihad; holder; holder4alqaeda; holder4murderers; holder4terrorists; holdervsamericans; idiotalert; impeachobama; ksm; obama; obama4alqaeda; obama4murderers; obama4terrorists; obamavsamericans; september112001; stuckonstupid
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1 posted on 07/12/2010 3:15:17 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: All

September 11, 2001 (Memorial/Research Link)

2 posted on 07/12/2010 3:16:59 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: All



Remarks as Prepared for Delivery by Attorney General Holder at the National Law Enforcement...
US - Speech ^ | September 11, 2009 | n/a
Posted on September 11, 2009 5:04:37 PM PDT by Cindy

Note: The following text is a quote:

Remarks as Prepared for Delivery by Attorney General Holder at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial September 11 Ceremony

Friday, September 11, 2009 - Washington, DC Thank you, Craig, for your kind introduction, and for all the work you do on behalf of our nation’s police officers and families.

Several months ago, I stood here at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial at the annual candlelight vigil. That night I had the solemn honor of leading the recitation of the names of officers who had been killed in the line of duty. On that somber evening, we dedicated the names of those heroes to these hallowed walls, and to our grateful memory.

This morning, I once again have the sacred privilege of publicly acknowledging the brave men and women who sacrificed their lives on behalf of all of us.

Eight years ago today, the clear skies over New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania were pierced by acts of hatred that we will never be able to fully comprehend. Nearly 3,000 Americans were murdered that day, each one an unknowing martyr to the cause of freedom.

Seventy-two of those Americans were the officers whose names stand here in silent testimony to the type of public servants they truly were. These were extraordinary men and women who wanted nothing more than to serve their communities, and who went to work each day with the full realization that they may be called upon to make the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of their neighbors and their nation.

We will always remember the bravery they consistently demonstrated – not just on September 11, 2001, but on each and every day of their careers – not only because their names are etched on these walls, but because their deeds are etched in our hearts.

For me, as it is for so many Americans, today is also personal. My brother William is a retired Port Authority police officer, and my family and I will always be reminded of the courage his colleagues demonstrated, and the price so many of them paid in service to their country. My admiration, respect, and support for the men and women in blue is always at the front of my mind. But on September 11, I join you in taking special pause to reflect not only on what we lost, but to also remember what we gained from the deeds of these special heroes.

In the years since that terrible day, the Department of Justice has worked hard to strengthen its ability both to prevent terrorism and to ensure that terrorists answer for their crimes. I pledge to you today that as Attorney General, I will stand shoulder-to-shoulder with my colleagues in law enforcement, the military, and the intelligence community to combat terrorism at every level and in every way so that we can keep the American people safe. The people responsible for those horrific attacks on September 11, 2001 will all be held accountable – this is my promise. We owe nothing less to those we lost, to the families who grieve, and to a nation whose principles inspire the hopes and dreams of millions around the world.

Thank you.


3 posted on 07/12/2010 3:19:43 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: All

Ongoing thread with info and updates:


Plans to close Gitmo anger 9/11 victims’ families
AP via News ^ | January 20, 2009 - 3:32am | By BEN FOX,
Posted on January 20, 2009 2:48:21 AM PST by Cindy

GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba (AP) - Plans to close Guantanamo are not sitting well with the Sept. 11 victims’ relatives who sat stunned while two alleged terrorists declared they were proud of their role in the plot.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

4 posted on 07/12/2010 3:21:00 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: Cindy

Mid term elections coming up. Holder just does what Obama tells him to do. Mid term elections coming up. It’s not unusual for a Democrat to suddenly execute a couple of deserving types to pick up some “right wing” votes. I seem to remember Clinton doing that as Governor of Arkansas to prep for the presidential run.

5 posted on 07/12/2010 3:34:10 AM PDT by Liberty Ship ("Lord, make me fast and accurate.")
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To: Cindy

Baraq Sheik Obama has no intention of prosecuting KSM, and Holder is in full agreement.

6 posted on 07/12/2010 3:37:48 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (For the first time in half a century, there is no former KKK member in the US Senate.)
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To: Cindy

Obama and minions chipping away at Muslim accountability on anything. We are like frogs being boiled alive in a pot of cold water. Evidently there’s nothing Muslims do that isn’t excusable. Truly, this is the Lockerbee bomber release writ large. More than 3000 Americans and others murdered in terms too hideous to describe, but no death penalty, folks.

With Obama’s help they dance on the grave of Western Civilization and the US in particular. And meanwhile, NASA had better make sure Muslims feel superior every day in every way. Next step: Muslims to the head of the line to Ivy League schools, and graduated with top honors even if they forget to attend classes. Affirmative action works!

7 posted on 07/12/2010 3:38:00 AM PDT by hershey
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To: hershey

Coincident with this report, our local rag today had a story about the 4 Nazis who landed at Ponte Vedra Beach circa June 1942....captured in two weeks due to an insider informer, they were executed withing three months after being tried by a military commission...2 of the 4 who landed on Long Island had their deaths commuted as they cooperated.

My how times have changed but what has changed: Roosevelt was a lefty dem. The two clowns responsible for the current fiasco are lefty dems too. Perhaps Roosevelt was not a racist too.

8 posted on 07/12/2010 3:50:22 AM PDT by Mouton
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To: Cindy

Biblically, I believe God holds those in agreement with a plan to be held responsible for its outcome. (We are told to tell a perp not to do a crime or we are also responsible, and the nation of Israel was held responsible for child sacrifice, witchcraft, divorce, and other obominations.) So, anyone in agreement with the terrorists are responsible for ALL murders committed under this plan, including our soldiers. Eye for an eye is justice. Death for murder.

9 posted on 07/12/2010 4:02:20 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: Mouton
Perhaps Roosevelt was not a racist too.

FDRs lesbo wife's job was to undo his Racism or at least mask it with stories about how she was helping ‘negros’ while he was interring japanese in America.

10 posted on 07/12/2010 4:03:49 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; blueyon; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; ...
Thanks Cindy.
...says there's a real question about whether a terrorist suspect such as self-professed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed can face the death penalty if he were to plead guilty before a military commission.
apropos of nothing...
11 posted on 07/12/2010 4:08:36 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Mouton

There were 8 spies...

12 posted on 07/12/2010 4:15:58 AM PDT by vortec94
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To: Fresh Wind

Quite sadly, I believe you’re correct

13 posted on 07/12/2010 4:27:07 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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To: vortec94

Perhaps I was not clear enough, there were four who landed in Florida and 4 who landed on Long Island...that makes eight but my local rag in Florida was only writing about the four who landed here.

14 posted on 07/12/2010 4:29:57 AM PDT by Mouton
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To: Cindy

So, this implies Eric Holder DOES NOT WANT to impose the Death Penalty against Muslims! Is he one, too?

15 posted on 07/12/2010 4:36:33 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: Cindy

The Grand Vizier’s chief eunuch!

16 posted on 07/12/2010 4:38:14 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: Cindy

KSM moves a couple steps closer to his faculty position at Yale.

17 posted on 07/12/2010 4:53:05 AM PDT by Steely Tom (Obama goes on long after the thrill of Obama is gone)
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To: hershey
With Obama’s help they dance on the grave of Western Civilization and the US in particular.

I hear Rosetta Stone is offering a discount three-pack of Arabic, Spanish, and Mandarin chinese so you can have all the bases covered for when the string pullers show their faces.
18 posted on 07/12/2010 5:09:04 AM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: Cindy; Fred Nerks; null and void; stockpirate; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; rxsid; MeekOneGOP; ...
One more fascist marker on the Obama Junta.

For those who do not believe that we have a nationalist socialist Junta running our executive branch of government, that knowledge needs to be faced squarely.

Nationalism of the Obama brand is black power/ethnic nationalism, ,in which historical justice is to be administratively applied based in the myth that America is what it is today economically by virtue of colonial exploitation of ethnic/racial minorities. This is a consistent thread we can now clearly see in this so called administration. It is in fact a Junta, because it posits very clearly one set of laws for the Caucasian population , and another for the racial/ethnic minorities of America.This is clearly seen in the Obama approach to Arizona on security, on the issue of illegal alien amnesty, and in many other areas, including subsidized housing which created the present economic situation world wide using Fannie / Freddie, and a press controlled by a propaganda czar in fact, if not by direct appointment, in Ezra Klein's "Journolist" of 400 news editors acting in concert to suppress or spin news about the populist resistance movement to the Obama Junta, which now includes a whole state government in Arizona.

This present thread delineates one further marker. When will America awaken to the fact that it has been thoroughly traduced by a fascist movement which has no intention of observing the essential oath of office to support and defend the Constitution, replacing the laws of our nation with political correctness which changes weekly according to nationalist socialist ( fascist) ideology?

Many authors have warned us. Jonah Goldberg's book comprises one example and it should be read by every American ( Liberal Fascism, The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning)

The time has come for us to organize for our own safety and security across the nation, by county. Every county in the nation needs to establish Committees of Correspondence and Safety and prepare to resist and fight this dastardly movement, this political minority of fascists which seeks to destroy America and remake it into a twisted Utopia which has no basis in the Constitution of our Nation.

Make no mistake about it. The safety of every American is now compromised. There is no limit to their power to take the freedom and property of every American according to fascist whim. The people now must organize to protect themselves, their property,and enter this fray as a matter of necessity. The example on how to accomplish that was set by our ancestors in 1774 in places like Worcestor, and Boston. We must now get on with it.


May 12, 2009 Barack Obama, the Quintessential Liberal Fascist

By Kyle-Anne Shiver

“They fear that the development and building of People’s (community) Organizations is the building of a vast power group which may fall prey to a fascistic demagogue who will seize leadership and control and turn an organization into a Frankenstein’s monster against democracy.” - Saul Alinsky responding to his critics, Reveille for Radicals; p. 199

When Saul Alinsky began building his community-organization movement in 1930s Chicago, observers were watching Alinsky with one eye, while with the other eye observing the building of communist and fascist movements in Europe. It wasn’t hard then to see in Alinsky’s programs at home, elements of the people’s revolution from Russia, as well as some of the same “in your face” tactics being employed by Hitler’s Brownshirts.

What Alinsky’s critics saw was the burgeoning of a national movement, the carefully manipulated construction of people’s organizations, which all had two elements in common: (1) a collectivist creed, which denied the existence of personal responsibility; and (2) an amoral dogma, in which all means were justified by an imaginary Utopian end.

While most modern Americans remember well Hitler’s Holocaust and the Cold War waged by a solid U.S.S.R., many of these same Americans have swallowed some false history regarding the movements that spawned such widespread, horrendous results. In what may be regarded as the most triumphant propaganda victory of our time, fascism has been scrubbed of all its Marxist roots, while communism has been scrubbed of its millions of callous murders.

This post-WWII propaganda coup undeniably set the stage for the early Alinsky critics’ most feared eventuality, that the massive organizations could be shrewdly adopted by a fascist demagogue, someone who could “seize leadership and control” and turn them into a “Frankenstein’s monster against democracy.”

But perhaps the most cunning propaganda feat in history has been undertaken for the past 8 years. As Jonah Goldberg expertly expounds in his book, Liberal Fascism, American left-wing ideologues have managed to dissociate themselves from all the horrors of fascism with a “brilliant rhetorical maneuver.” They’ve done it by “claiming that their opponents are the fascists.”

Alinsky himself employed this method, quite deviously. Alinsky biographer, Sanford D. Horwitt provides an anecdote using precisely this diabolical tactic to deceive the people. From Horwitt’s Let Them Call Me Rebel:

“ the spring of 1972, at Tulane University...students asked Alinsky to help plan a protest of a scheduled speech by George H. W. Bush, then U.S. representative to the United Nations - a speech likely to include a defense of the Nixon administration’s Vietnam War policies. The students told Alinsky they were thinking about picketing or disrupting Bush’s address. That’s the wrong approach, he rejoined, not very creative - and besides causing a disruption might get them thrown out of school. He told them, instead, to go to hear the speech dressed as members of the Ku Klux Klan, and whenever Bush said something in defense of the Vietnam War, they should cheer and wave placards reading, ‘The KKK supports Bush.’ And that is what they did, with very successful, attention-getting results.”

In what may eventually prove to be a devious rhetorical feat of monstrous proportions, while the left has been indulging and fostering the “Bush Is Hitler” meme, they may have just put a genuine ideological fascist heir in the White House.

There is inherent danger in making scurrilous comparisons (as were perpetrated unceasingly against George W. Bush), but there seem to be some very worrisome signs in the rise of Barack Obama that we Americans would be foolish to ignore.

Obama, the Closer

As I put forth last year in “Obama, the Closer”, Barack Obama, did not start his movement; Alinsky did.

Nor did Obama amass the organizations that propelled him. As detailed by Heidi J. Swarts, in her book, Organizing Urban America, the movement begun by Saul Alinsky in the 1930s has morphed into thousands of secular and faith-based leftist political organizations. ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) has perhaps the highest public profile, is most reputed for radicalism, and is the organization with which Barack Obama was first aligned. But ACORN is the mere tip of a veritable iceberg of Alinsky-styled community organizations that sweep across the entire United States and make up the backbone of faith-based progressive movements as well.

These euphemistically called “community” organizations have next to nothing to do with improving the communities and everything to do with politics, primarily strong-arming government money to advance their political aims. Prior to Reagan’s election, these groups worked independently for the most part, each seeking to effect local change towards leftist ends.

But with Reagan’s victory, ACORN founding member Wade Rathke sent out a memo (published by Swarts; Organizing Urban America; p. 29) that would reverberate all the way to Barack Obama’s moment. ACORN had been behaving as a sort of “Lone Ranger of the Left” for too long, wrote Rathke. Ronald Reagan had formed a coalition among the middle-class that threatened to bring greater prosperity without left-wing Statists calling the shots. Rathke put out the call to the ACORN troops to stop antagonizing those who would be allies, especially unions and church organizations, once shunned by ACORN as too placid for the real fight for power. For the next 25 years, the community organization network built, proliferated and formed a solid, nation-wide base of political strength, purely according to Alinsky’s original vision, and all just waiting for the right candidate to tap into it and lead it.

When folks from all corners of America proclaimed, seemingly with one voice, Barack is the “One we’ve been waiting for,” they were speaking out of the vast Alinsky-originated network.

Neither did Barack Obama invent the political “ideology of change,” nor design its carefully crafted propaganda. While media folks talked of the tingles up their legs and the brilliant rhetoric of Barack Obama, they were heralding the speaker only, not the creator of the movement and its slogans. That would have been Saul Alinsky, the man who took fascism and cunningly made it appear to casual observers every bit as American as apple pie.

Barack Obama is merely the movement’s closer, the quintessential liberal fascist with a teleprompter.

Alinsky’s Ideology of Change: The Third Way

Goldberg fastidiously notes the comparison between Alinsky’s “in your face” rules for radicals, studied and perfected by Barack Obama, and shows them to have profoundly fascist roots:

“...there’s no disputing that vast swaths of his (Alinsky’s) writings are indistinguishable from the fascist rhetoric of the 1920s and 1930s...His worldview is distinctly fascistic. Life is defined by war, contests of power, the imposition of will. Moreover, Alinsky shares with the fascists and pragmatists of yore a bedrock hostility to dogma. All he believes in are the desired ends of the movement, which he regards as the source of life’s meaning...But what comes through most is his unbridled love of power. Power is a good in its own right for Alinsky. Ours ‘is a world not of angels but of angles,’ he proclaims in Rules for Radicals, ‘where men speak of moral principles but act on power principles.”

Saul Alinsky was the man who transformed politics in America into all-out war mode. Alinsky’s tenth rule of the ethics of means: “You do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral garments.” All’s fair in love and war, and politics, to Alinsky, was war.

“A People’s (community) Organization is not a philanthropic plaything or a social service’s ameliorative gesture. It is a deep, hard-driving force, striking and cutting at the very roots of all the evils which beset the people. It thinks and acts in terms of social surgery and not cosmetic cover-ups.

A People’s Organization is dedicated to an eternal war

. A war is not an intellectual debate, and in the war against social evils there are no rules of fair play.” Saul Alinsky; Reveille for Radicals; p. 133

Alinsky includes an entire section in Rules for Radicals on “The Ideology of Change.” The watchword of the Obama campaign was “change.” Just as Hitler mobilized the masses with a calculatingly undefined demand for “change,” so did Alinsky disciple, Barack Obama.

“Everything must be different!” or “Alles muss anders sein!,” Hitler’s own campaign slogan, morphed into “Unite for Change,” and the Obama transition team’s Even the idea of a vast “movement” was borrowed from Hitler. As Goldberg states, Hitler used the phrase, “the Movement,” more than 200 times in Mein Kampf.

The word ‘movement’ itself is instructive. Movement, unlike progress, doesn’t imply a fixed destination. Rather, it takes it as a given that any change is better.

(Goldberg; Liberal Fascism; p. 176) Perhaps the most intoxicating allure to the fascist demagogue and his movement for undefined change is its misleadingly conciliatory flavor. Barack Obama continually, throughout his campaign and even now, portrays himself as the Third Way between the cantankerous factions that have polarized America for the past 80 years, since liberal fascism took root as the Progressive Movement.

Obama claimed that Bush was too much the ideologue, that his policies were driven by the Christian right, involved “false choices” between all-out war on the one hand and diplomacy on the other, between the welfare state and cold-hearted, do-nothing conservatism, between absolute sovereignty and cowardly submission to the global community, between doing all and doing nothing. And if any of this gibberish were a true reflection of our political disagreements, Obama would be somewhat correct. But as any sentient person knows, this radical presentation of Obama’s is absolutely false. That gets lost, though, in the leader’s conciliatory tone.

What must not get lost, however, is the very real fact that this Third Way movement for change is as fascist as anything we have ever seen in the USA. As Alinsky described his own “Ideology of Change,” the lure is in the claim that the leader has no ideology that would confine his outlook to hard choices between what is moral or immoral, that there are no boundaries set by either religion or politics, that everything can change and the only thing that matters is one’s end intention to do something good.

As Hitler, before Alinsky, proclaimed, “Our program is to govern,” not delve into theory and dogma. This is in itself very appealing, especially to an electorate sick of the contentiousness of the past decade. This undefined “ideology of change” for the sake of change, for some action that will break through the roadblocks of polarization, has tremendous allure.

But Goldberg bursts that bubble:

The ‘middle way’ sounds moderate and un-radical. Its appeal is that it sounds unideological and freethinking. But philosophically the Third Way is not mere difference splitting; it is utopian and authoritarian. Its utopian aspect becomes manifest in its antagonism to the idea that politics is about trade-offs. The Third Wayer says that there are no false choices -‘I refuse to accept that X should come at the expense of Y.’ The Third Way holds that we can have capitalism and socialism, individual liberty and absolute unity. Fascist movements are implicitly utopian because they - like communist and heretical Christian movements — assume that with just the right arrangement of policies, all contradictions can be rectified. (Goldberg; Liberal Fascism; p. 130)

Of course, thinking people — when they are indeed thinking — know this is an utterly false promise. Life will never be made perfect because all human beings are imperfect.

Unity, the Diabolical Lure

What of this longed-for unity then? Barack Obama proclaimed he was leading a movement of people “united for change.” What is the appeal of unity?

The modern liberal fascist seeks that state between mother and child which exists early on before the child seeks his own independence, before mother must set herself at odds with him. It is the perfectly secure state of childhood where all is lovely and peaceful and nurturing, but cannot continue indefinitely if the child is to be prepared to face a world of difficulty and hard choices. Nevertheless, the yearning continues. It is this primordial yearning which sets itself in the crosshairs of the fascist demagogue.

But in adult life, this type of unity is anything but desirable, anything but virtuous. As Goldberg states, however, “elevation of unity as the highest social value is a core tenet of fascism and all leftist ideologies.”

The allure of this mystical unity is so great that its demand to sacrifice reason and thought on the false altar of infantile security is seemingly lost to many. But as Goldberg also reminds us, “unity is, at best, morally neutral and often a source of irrationality and groupthink.”

Rampaging mobs are unified. The Mafia is unified. Marauding barbarians bent on rape and pillage are unified. Meanwhile, civilized people have disagreements, and small-d democrats have arguments. Classical liberalism is based on this fundamental insight, which is why fascism was always anti-liberal.

Liberalism rejected the idea that unity is more valuable than individuality. For fascists and other leftists, meaning and authenticity are found in collective enterprises - of class, nation, or race - and the state is there to enforce that meaning on everyone without the hindrance of debate. (Goldberg; Liberal Fascism; p. 172)

Just as the healthy relationship between parent and developing child demands friction, so does the healthy relationship between truly liberal citizens. Unity is the siren song of tyranny, not the call to genuine progress.

Fascism: The Two Birds with One Stone Approach

I think of Obama’s liberal fascism as a cancer that attempts to kill the two birds of American exceptionalism with one stone. It is a deviously appealing Third Way that in the end, if allowed to triumph completely, kills both individual liberty and Judeo/Christian religion with its single stone.

And, indeed this was the precise goal of Adolph Hitler. Unlike the outspoken hatred of private property and religion espoused by communists under Lenin and Stalin, Hitler preferred the more moderate-seeming incremental takeover of private enterprise in the interest of the “common good,” and the slow-death of Judeo/Christian religion by chipping away at it and replacing the people’s dependence upon God gradually with reliance on the state (Hitler).

[Note: Hitler’s Holocaust was based on the Progressive Eugenics principles set forth by Social Darwinist scientists and social engineers of the 1920s, widely accepted both in Europe and in the United States. Religion was not at the core of the Holocaust; race was. However, Hitler’s other chief aim was to destroy the Judeo/Christian religions, which he believed had ruined the Germanic race’s world predominance.]

Of course, as the German people were duped into giving Hitler totalitarian powers to work his magic “change,” he took off the kid gloves and accelerated the program.

In the end, however slow the process, however seemingly benign the growth of the state may seem, liberal fascism has the same result of all tyrannies before it: hell on earth for most and a self-indulgent feast for the Statists in power.

As Barack Obama speaks, thinking Americans ought to hear the echoes of past fascist demagogues and remember. Remember.

When Barack Obama promises “collective redemption” through his profligate spending programs and vast overtures to a new world order built on love for our fellow man, we ought to shudder not swoon.

We ought to remember that healthy global relationships are built upon respect, not all-encompassing love, and that redemption for one’s soul is a commodity the state is not empowered to offer.

As Pope Benedict XVI has so presciently warned:

Wherever politics tries to be redemptive, it is promising too much. Where it wishes to do the work of God, it becomes, not divine, but demonic.

Be not fooled, America. The movement, which appears most benign is instead the most malignant growth ever seen on our soil. It’s a cancer that will kill, and however slowly it grows or however nice it may look on the surface, doesn’t change a thing.

Kyle-Anne Shiver is a frequent contributor to American Thinker. She welcomes your comments at



19 posted on 07/12/2010 5:21:25 AM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascist... ...He meets every diagnostic of history)
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To: Cindy

The chief law enforcement officer of the United States doesn’t have the first clue.

20 posted on 07/12/2010 5:37:50 AM PDT by popdonnelly (Democrats = authoritarian socialists)
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