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82 police injured in Northern Ireland's 2 nights of Catholic riots; politicians plead for calm
FOX News ^ | July 13, 2010 | NA

Posted on 07/13/2010 10:24:53 AM PDT by Stayfrosty

BELFAST, Northern Ireland (AP) — Northern Ireland leaders condemned Irish nationalist rioters Tuesday who wounded 82 police officers during two nights of street clashes sparked by the province's annual parades by the British Protestant majority.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: belfast; catholic; clinton; failure; goodfriday; ira; london; mi5; mi6; northernireland; northireland; obama; outsidesix; protestant; terrorism; uk; ulster; unitedkingdom; wot
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It seems the situation is going from bad to worse. If anyone follows the politics of North Ireland, there have been several acts of violence recently. IEDs have started popping up coupled with various gun battles. Hopefully they can get all sides to the table to quit this latest round of violence.
1 posted on 07/13/2010 10:24:57 AM PDT by Stayfrosty
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To: Stayfrosty

Being Irish Catholic I guess I shouldn’t comment here but I know Ireland will never be peacful as long as she’s occupied.


2 posted on 07/13/2010 10:28:56 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba

I agree


3 posted on 07/13/2010 10:31:25 AM PDT by Stayfrosty
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To: chris_bdba

Being an Irisch Convert (Cath to Pot) I mostly agree with you except to say there was a window some years back when things were moving in the right direction.

If the Orange order would just grown up and knock off the marches through Catholic neighborhoods things might have kept moving that way.


4 posted on 07/13/2010 10:33:33 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: chris_bdba

Yes, if the protestant majority find their land occupied by the Irish army they will peacefully go about their business and forget all about how they are not and do not want to be Irish.


5 posted on 07/13/2010 10:33:47 AM PDT by Stolly
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To: Stayfrosty

I hate it when Roman Catholics start acting like
Muslims.


6 posted on 07/13/2010 10:33:59 AM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever)
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To: Doulos1

The Protestants invaded - like Muslims would.

The Protestants suppressed traditional Christianity - like Muslims would.

And now the Protestants march through Catholic neighborhoods to remind the Catholics of their second class status - just like the Muslims would.


7 posted on 07/13/2010 10:37:19 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: chris_bdba

Major dittoes, chris.


8 posted on 07/13/2010 10:37:53 AM PDT by misharu (US Congress = children without adult supervision.)
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To: vladimir998

Lets not go there *please*

throughout history Catholics and Protestants have done really crappy things to each other... And if you want to talk about ‘traditional this or that take it to a theology thread’.

The left like to use Ireland as an example of Christian Terrorism but in truth of fact anyone with half a brain knows the only reason religion plays into it is because England is not Catholic.

Even if England and Ireland were both Catholic/Prot there would still be blood in the streets because England would have invaded and beaten Ireland would have stayed there and would have had partisans marching every year to commemorate the defeat...

This is not a religious struggle, this one is geo political.


9 posted on 07/13/2010 10:42:37 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: Doulos1
I hate it when Roman Catholics start acting like Muslims.

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark!
10 posted on 07/13/2010 10:42:42 AM PDT by TSgt (We will always be prepared, so we may always be free. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Stayfrosty

Didn’t George Mitchell solve this? Which is why he was chosen to solve the Arab-Israel issue? /sarc


11 posted on 07/13/2010 10:42:55 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: Stayfrosty
Every year things are going well until the Orangemen decide to march through Catholic neighborhoods with their drums. It's like the Klan marching through a black neighborhood using the “N” word.

If you go out looking for trouble, you usually get it. I am just sorry 82 police officers were hurt (rather than 82 Orangemen).

12 posted on 07/13/2010 10:45:15 AM PDT by bwc2221
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To: vladimir998
OUCH, vlad!! This battle has been ongoing for hundreds of years and until the people, Catholic AND Protestant, get sick and tired of it, then it will never stop.

On my third trip to Ireland in 1999, I visited the Museum of History in Dublin. Unfortunately, I visisted it the day after I finished reading "1918" and as I strolled through the wing dedicated to the "Troubles" my blood just boiled.

13 posted on 07/13/2010 10:46:22 AM PDT by misharu (US Congress = children without adult supervision.)
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To: vladimir998

Oh my gosh, Christians marching through
Christian neighborhoods, oh the humanity.

“Suppressed traditional Christianity”
commonly called ‘being shown a more perfect way’.

Besides all the RC’s would have to do is move
50 km south, eh?


14 posted on 07/13/2010 10:49:57 AM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever)
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To: N3WBI3

You wrote:

“Lets not go there *please*”

I’ll go where I like, thanks.

“throughout history Catholics and Protestants have done really crappy things to each other... And if you want to talk about ‘traditional this or that take it to a theology thread’.”

Take your complaining elsewhere. My points were valid. Disagree all you like, but don’t tell me to not state my opinions. This is FreeRepublic not N3WBI3’s Dictatorship.

“The left like to use Ireland as an example of Christian Terrorism but in truth of fact anyone with half a brain knows the only reason religion plays into it is because England is not Catholic.”

Actually the left rarely uses Ireland as an example of “Christian Terrorism”. They instead use Ireland as an example of British oppression of a native people (and not without merit either). The left rarely examines the theological differences between Catholics and Protestants and instead focuses - and I think correctly - on the historical nature of the feud.

“Even if England and Ireland were both Catholic/Prot there would still be blood in the streets because England would have invaded and beaten Ireland would have stayed there and would have had partisans marching every year to commemorate the defeat...”

Nope. The reason for the invasion, occupation, repression, rebellion, and the marches is ultimately religion. Where are the British marches in Scotland? Wales? There are none. Why not? Because, even though they are different peoples, they share the same faith and ultimately bent their knees to the same Protestant crown, Protestant law and Protestant army. Ireland is different than Scotland and Wales. They are all Celts. They all live in rather poor lands. They all fought the English for centuries and centuries. So, why are the Irish different? Because they stayed Catholic.

“This is not a religious struggle, this one is geo political.”

It started in religious turmoil.


15 posted on 07/13/2010 10:52:37 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998
The Protestants invaded - like Muslims would. The Protestants suppressed traditional Christianity - like Muslims would. And now the Protestants march through Catholic neighborhoods to remind the Catholics of their second class status - just like the Muslims would.

And just like Muslims, IRA terrorists bomb pubs, engage in random executions and in a country which is over 90% Roman Catholic that is never enough and need religious purity just like Muslims. There have been Protestants in Northern Ireland for over 400 years and the reason the English invaded was to protect their countryymen from random murder and extermination. Please folks, history is not a U2 song. Irish history is muddy with invasion and settlement of foreign powerrs, like America there really is no native Irish nationality. From the Franks, to the Romans and the Norse, Ireland is mix of different ethnic groups merged into one. To say that Roman Catholic Irishman have some Biblical right to run their entire island is silly. >

16 posted on 07/13/2010 10:56:18 AM PDT by pburgh01
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To: Doulos1

You wrote:

“Oh my gosh, Christians marching through
Christian neighborhoods, oh the humanity.”

People celebrating your oppression. How would you like that in your own land and on your own street.

“commonly called ‘being shown a more perfect way’.”

Clearly not.

“Besides all the RC’s would have to do is move
50 km south, eh?”

All the Protestant could just go a little further to the land of their ancestors. There’s no reason for the native people - who oppressed no one - to go anywhere.


17 posted on 07/13/2010 10:58:53 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Doulos1

Don’t you find it unusual that the Protestant minority is the Republic encounter the same type of discrimination that Catholics do in the north?

Bitter Clinger Forever: Lots of truth there.


18 posted on 07/13/2010 11:02:05 AM PDT by bwc2221
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To: vladimir998

Are you feather indian or mexican landscaper ?


19 posted on 07/13/2010 11:03:36 AM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever)
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To: vladimir998
You forgot one vlad: The Protestants involved cover their faces, just like Muslims do. This may sound very simplistic, but I think the best way to determine who is right in a war like this is to look at who is willing to show their faces. The Irish Catholics never, that I have seen, covered their faces.
20 posted on 07/13/2010 11:04:13 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: pburgh01
“There have been Protestants in Northern Ireland for over 400 years and the reason the English invaded was to protect their countryymen from random murder and extermination.”

How's life in the parallel universe? I bet the sky is red in your world.

21 posted on 07/13/2010 11:07:03 AM PDT by bwc2221
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To: N3WBI3

“Being an Irisch Convert (Cath to Pot) . . . .”


So you’re an Irish Catholic who went to Pot?

(I keed, I keed. : )


22 posted on 07/13/2010 11:10:16 AM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
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To: pburgh01
I didn't realize Baghdad Bob was a FReeper.
23 posted on 07/13/2010 11:13:45 AM PDT by bwc2221
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To: Stayfrosty

(I messed up my attempt at posting so I apologize if this is the second appearance)

I follow NI politics.

My gut feel on why this one is worse than previously is due to two things:

1) There are more young punks (yobs) out of work now than last year. Take a look at the pics associated w/this story in the Belfast Telegraph. Everyone getting violent looks like a teenager.

2) Recently released Bloody Sunday report got eveyone thinking about the earlier days in The Troubles.

So, I think the yobs simply are taking the opportunity to raise hell. Sort of like how some Iraq war protesters seem (to me at least) like they want to recapture the spirit of the Viet Nam War protests, more than they actually want to protest the war itself. Combine this w/the mentality of those waiting to riot after that verdict in CA.

I think that’s what you have here.

I believe Catholics have they’re own marches in Prod territory too, so you have that “stick it to you” hateful-mentality on both sides.

There is a small chance that CIRA is taking advantage of the relatively poor economics to do some recruiting, but I haven’t heard they were associated w/12th violence this go around.


24 posted on 07/13/2010 11:20:26 AM PDT by fruser1
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To: vladimir998

“I’ll go where I like, thanks.”

Well, whtats what I get for asking nicely..

“Take your complaining elsewhere. My points were valid.”

Your points were selective and the conclusions obtuse and childlike.... For every ‘Prtos are bad to Catholics I can find Catholics being bad to Prots... To bring it up here displays a very limited view of the whole thing.

“Actually the left rarely uses Ireland as an example of “Christian Terrorism””

Really? Are you that uninformed or do you just want to drag out the argument?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

The left does what they always do, take a single situation and warp it around to be an example of whatever great ‘evil’ is currently spinning around their empty head... Kind of like what you’re doing.

“Nope. The reason for the invasion, occupation, repression, rebellion, and the marches is ultimately religion.”

Hmm so when Then catholic Englan invaded the Catholic france were they trying to convert them to.... Catholics

England wanted land, and in Ireland they had a weak neighbor with no bordering nations. Please don’t state your opinion as if it were a fact..

When England first assaulted Ireland (1100) both nations were Catholic and England did it with the full authority of a Papal Bull. From then on England always had an eye on Ireland no matter what church the nation fought under.

“It started in religious turmoil.”

It started 900 years ago when both peoples were Catholic...


25 posted on 07/13/2010 11:21:10 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: Doulos1
I hate it when Roman Catholics start acting like Muslims

I hate it when Protestants don't act like Catholics.

26 posted on 07/13/2010 11:23:38 AM PDT by Irisshlass
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To: fruser1

You are probably right. IMHO though there will never be peace until the British leave with their Army. People can argue all they want but that is a fact. The Irish catholics see them as an invading and occupying force. Shouldn’t the UK be dedicating those forces to Afghanistan instead? It is long past due that NI govern itself.


27 posted on 07/13/2010 11:31:08 AM PDT by Stayfrosty
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Stolly

The Protestants are the ones whocame to occupy Cathloic Northen Ireland incase you don’t know Irish history. They came and tried to stave them out during the blight which bought many to this country my family included. We have not forgotten.


29 posted on 07/13/2010 11:38:08 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: Stolly

The Protestants are the ones whocame to occupy Cathloic Northen Ireland incase you don’t know Irish history. They came and tried to starve them out during the blight which bought many to this country my family included. We have not forgotten.


30 posted on 07/13/2010 11:38:29 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: Doulos1

Why would the Catholics have to move they have been there for Centuries it is their homeland. The Orange order are the invades. Some of you just don’t know history very well.


31 posted on 07/13/2010 11:42:42 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: goodwithagun

Then you really have not been paying attention.

IRA terrorists at funerals without fail cover their faces as they fire their Libyan supplied pistols over the dead terrorist.


32 posted on 07/13/2010 11:46:37 AM PDT by Stolly
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To: Stayfrosty

Actually, another recent development is that there is now shared police powers with Catholics and Protestants in the PSNI. The prior police, the RUC, was basically Brit army. So in a sense you mention they are “out” to some degree, though, since terrorism still exists, MI5 maintains a strong presence, as it did before.

True, they are still sovereigned by UK and maybe the Catholics will never be satisfied until “all Brits get out”, but that situation is not likely to happen. Sort of like Muslims not wanting any Jews in the mideast - keep dreamin’.

Basically, without committing genocide, the ultimate solution will be political. For that to begin to work, the institutionalized abuses have to end first, hopefully to which, the power sharing in the PSNI will contribute.


33 posted on 07/13/2010 11:46:56 AM PDT by fruser1
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To: chris_bdba

Yes, people who are “the invades” should return home.

I for one will the the first to welcome my cousins as they return leaving the occupied territories to the rightful owners, the true Americans.


34 posted on 07/13/2010 11:50:44 AM PDT by Stolly
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To: chris_bdba

I don’t know a lot about history, but I did know that,
thank you. Using your logic then you should leave and
go back to Europe where your family came from. This is
the logic that the feather indians and the mexicans
have been using for three hundred years. No, I won’t
go back to Europe and if the Irish want N.I. back then
get some guns and take it back. They won’t, they can’t,
so they blowup women and children of public buses,
like the Muslims!


35 posted on 07/13/2010 11:55:02 AM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever)
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To: Stolly

Your post made zero sense and has nothing to do with pointing out my typo of invaders.


36 posted on 07/13/2010 11:58:21 AM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: Doulos1; Stayfrosty

“I hate it when Roman Catholics start acting like
Muslims.”

I was thinking:

“The OTHER religion of peace.”


37 posted on 07/13/2010 11:59:06 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Stayfrosty

NI governs itself, and Republicans sit in that government.

Until the people decide via the ballot box that they no longer wish to remain in the UK, in the UK they will remain.

They will almost certainly NOT become part of Eire, the majority does not want it and even after the passage of decades a large enough minority does not want it.

All this hopeless misty eyed romantisim about “One Ireland” sounds great from thousands of miles away, but its never going to happen. The only result of years of financial support of terrorism from NORAID and the like was more dead civilians.

NI was the last part of the UK to get home rule, Wales and Scotland came first and nobody died to get it. A lesson seemingly lost on some.


38 posted on 07/13/2010 11:59:14 AM PDT by Stolly
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To: Doulos1

My family has been in this country for over 326 years and some were native Americans so telling me to go anywhere is going to be hard depending on which side of the family you want me to follow? The IRA never acted like Muslims and by that statment you have shown you know zero about Irish history. When was the last tme you head that muslims warned when the bombs would go off? Children and women were never targeted so stop your BS!


39 posted on 07/13/2010 12:06:25 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba

Children and women sure did have a very annoying habit of being in the places being bombed though.

Who would have thought they would be public places like streets lined with shops during the day !


40 posted on 07/13/2010 12:13:07 PM PDT by Stolly
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To: Stolly

Please stop twisting what I say to suit your narrative. Every bomb that ever went off had a 30 minute warning of where. It is obivous you posted here to show your backside and your anti Catholic rhetoric I hope you have to answer for that one day.


41 posted on 07/13/2010 12:16:34 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: Stolly

“At 11:58am on 20 March 1993, the telephone help charity The Samaritans received a coded message that a bomb was going to be detonated outside the Boots shop in Liverpool, fifteen miles away from Warrington. Merseyside Police investigated, and also warned the Cheshire Constabulary (who patrolled Warrington) of the threat, but it was too late to evacuate. At 12:12pm two bombs exploded, one outside Boots on Bridge Street and one outside the Argos catalogue store. Eyewitnesses said that “the first explosion drove panicking shoppers into the path of the next blast just seconds later.” Buses were organised to ferry people away from the scene and 20 paramedics and crews from 17 ambulances were sent to deal with the aftermath. It was later determined that the bombs had been placed inside cast-iron litter bins, causing large amounts of shrapnel.

Three-year-old Johnathan Ball died at the scene, while his babysitter survived. The second victim, 12-year-old Tim Parry, survived the impact with multiple injuries, but died on 25 March 1993 when doctors switched his life support machine off, having asked permission to do so from his family after a series of tests had found minimal brain activity.[5] 54 other people were injured, four of them seriously”

They might have been Protestant though so thats OK. At any rate they were English and who knows 400 hundred years ago one of their ancestors may have been to Ireland.


42 posted on 07/13/2010 12:17:42 PM PDT by Stolly
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To: chris_bdba

Well, apart from the time the IRA gave 15 minutes warning, and got the location wrong by 15 miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks

Honest mistake though. Human nature and all that.


43 posted on 07/13/2010 12:20:57 PM PDT by Stolly
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To: chris_bdba

Are you actually justifying terrorism? Did I hear you
right? Terrorism is just that. There are laws against
that for a reason. Using bombs against non-military
targets sounds very familiar. Just saying.
Why don’t the Irish get an army and go take the land
back? I’m sure there are lots of RC boys willing
to die for that little piece of land that the
Orangemen took centuries ago.
Syracuse University dropped the Orangemen as
their mascot, I wonder why?
Still a little tender about the Battle of Boyne, eh?
Get over it, it was a long time ago.


44 posted on 07/13/2010 12:30:02 PM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever)
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To: N3WBI3
This is not a religious struggle, this one is geo political.

Thank you! For years people having been trying to paint this as religous conflict. While the sides do tend to split along religous lines neither side is fighting to convert the other or for other religous reasons. This was a fight about nationality and identity.


45 posted on 07/13/2010 12:39:40 PM PDT by elc
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To: elc

This was a fight where the 99.9% of the population tried to stay out of the way when the .1 percent who live in the past tried to kill as many innocent people as possible.

And yes, that .1 percent is people on both sides who claimed to represent their communities but in reality brought nothing but suffering. I wish there was a way to have the terrorists of both sides blasted into space so they could fight over some rock a million miles away.


46 posted on 07/13/2010 12:44:17 PM PDT by Stolly
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To: Doulos1

You wrote:

“Are you feather indian or mexican landscaper ?”

Neither. And I don’t shed a single tear over land being taken from uncivilized, devil worshiping, human sacrificing cannibals like the Indians or Aztecs. Except for the unintended horror of disease, the people living here in 1492 were better off after the coming of Christian Europeans.


47 posted on 07/13/2010 12:51:38 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Stayfrosty
You are probably right. IMHO though there will never be peace until the British leave with their Army...Shouldn’t the UK be dedicating those forces to Afghanistan instead?

I think you may be a little behind the times. The British Army ended its operation (Operation Banner) in 2007. There are troops stationed in Ulster (most of them locals), but they do not do active operations. They're mostly there for training before deployment. The RIR battalions and their garrisons are long gone.

Secondly, I'm very curious, which British do you want to leave Northern Ireland? Are you referring to the Protestants that live there who consider themselves British?
48 posted on 07/13/2010 12:57:52 PM PDT by elc
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To: N3WBI3

You wrote:

“Well, whtats what I get for asking nicely..”

Your request was simply improper.

“Your points were selective and the conclusions obtuse and childlike.... For every ‘Prtos are bad to Catholics I can find Catholics being bad to Prots...”

Not in Ireland you can’t.

“To bring it up here displays a very limited view of the whole thing.”

No, actually I just go to the heart of the matter.

“Really? Are you that uninformed or do you just want to drag out the argument?”

Neither. I said “rarely” - and I was right. Wikipedia is not the “left”. It is merely one website and just about anyone can post there just like FR.

“The left does what they always do, take a single situation and warp it around to be an example of whatever great ‘evil’ is currently spinning around their empty head... Kind of like what you’re doing.”

I am not warping anything. You are. Suddenly the left is wikipedia.

“Hmm so when Then catholic Englan invaded the Catholic france were they trying to convert them to.... Catholics”

No. Then again there was no Protestant English invasion of France, no Protestant occupation, no Protestant marches, etc.

“England wanted land, and in Ireland they had a weak neighbor with no bordering nations. Please don’t state your opinion as if it were a fact..”

What I stated was fact.

“When England first assaulted Ireland (1100) both nations were Catholic and England did it with the full authority of a Papal Bull. From then on England always had an eye on Ireland no matter what church the nation fought under.”

That is largely irrelevant to the present situation. The Dublin pale is not Belfast.

“It started 900 years ago when both peoples were Catholic...”

No, actually it didn’t. The current troubles really only started with the invasion of the North. What happened in teh South 400 years earlier was essentially imaterial. This can be seen in the fact that the Normans became Irish lords in the Dublin pale and even often learned Irish and shared the same faith as their neighbors. None of that can be said of the Scots who came to the North in the 16th and 17th centuries.


49 posted on 07/13/2010 1:03:33 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: chris_bdba
Children and women were never targeted so stop your BS!

Are you smoking crack? Do you really think the IRA bombs were only going to kill British soldiers and RUC? You know the bombs they set off in pubs, crowded shopping centers, Remembrance Day parades.

I love it when the Plastic Paddies come out and start defending the IRA terrorists.
50 posted on 07/13/2010 1:04:19 PM PDT by elc
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