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Immigration, Reconsidered
American Thinker ^ | July 14, 2010 | Selwyn Duke

Posted on 07/14/2010 7:32:47 AM PDT by kabar

What if instead of granting amnesty in one fell swoop, we did so incrementally, say, to 20 percent of illegals a year for the next five years? That would still have the same ill effects, you say? OK, how about one million illegals a year until the job is done? I can hear it now: "Whoa, Duke, all you're proposing is to trade a knife through the heart for a death by a thousand cuts. A bad idea implemented more slowly is still a bad idea. And illegal means illegal." But wait -- if Congress passed an amnesty plan, it wouldn't be illegal.

You see, a death by a thousand legal cuts is not actually my position. Rather, if you're the average conservative American, it's yours. And what I put forth wasn't actually a proposal. Rather, it was a reality. It's called legal immigration.

Snip

Let's look at the facts. For most of American history, we admitted an average of approximately 250,000 immigrants a year. After the Immigration Reform Act of 1965 (Ted Kennedy's baby), however, this figure rose fourfold to approximately one million a year. The result: The rate of immigration started to exceed the rate of assimilation.

But it wasn't just the numbers that changed; it was also the nature. Eighty-five percent of our legal immigrants now hail from the third world and Asia, from non-Western cultures. And many immigrants, such as Islamists, cling to and advance beliefs that are incompatible with -- and destructive to -- our culture.

The proof is in the pudding. Approximately 80 percent of new legal immigrants, once naturalized, vote as our culture-rending leftists do (for leftist Democrats). For a specific example, consider that first-time Hispanic voters cast ballots for Bill Clinton by a ratio of 15 to 1.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; deport; illegals; immigration; importingdemocrats; laraza; maldef; reconquista
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An important article that underscores the need to get our legal immigration under control. In effect, we have an amnesty every ten years as a result of our LEGAL IMMIGRATION Policies.
1 posted on 07/14/2010 7:32:48 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

in the past we have always had extensive programs to educate, Americanize and assimilate new immigrants. The difference today is that the people behind this are deliberately trying to Balkanize us.


2 posted on 07/14/2010 7:34:28 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: kabar

I don’t care what color they are as long as they are the best and brightest. If they come here to open businesses, (and have the funds) if they are educated, if they contribute, then they are welcome. If they need welfare, and education etc. then they should comprise only 5% of the immigrants.


3 posted on 07/14/2010 7:37:41 AM PDT by McGavin999 (I'm sorry, your race card is overdrawn and no further charges can be accepted)
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To: kabar
Granting amnesty in increments is not the solution, imho. If and when amnesty, in whatever form it comes and is passed, needs to come with a 5-10 year suspension of the the illegal immigrants/aliens voting rights since, in all truth, the major political incentive to granting amnesty in any form is the gaining of their votes. Suspending their voting rights for x-amount of time removes that political outcome and incentive.
4 posted on 07/14/2010 7:41:48 AM PDT by cranked
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To: Buckeye McFrog
We can't assimilate them because the numbers are too large and the source of the immigrants has become less diverse.

The U.S. adds one international migrant (net) every 36 seconds. Immigrants account for one >in 8 U.S. residents, the highest level in more than 80 years. In 1970 it was one in 21; in 1980 it was one in 16; and in 1990 it was one in 13. In a decade, it will be one in 7, the highest it has been in our history. And by 2050, one in 5 residents of the U.S. will be foreign-born.

From the article:

The problem with this is that it isn't geography that makes a nation, but people. Replace Americans with Mexicans or Muslims and you no longer have America -- you have Mexico North or Iran West. Thus, if you believe Western culture is an evil force and aim to destroy it, our current immigration scheme perfectly suits your agenda.

Of course, some say this will change when the new arrivals become Americanized, but this is an ostrich pipe dream. For one thing, they aren't being Americanized; America is being balkanized. Second, what does it mean to be Americanized? There are millions of leftists who deliver a message many new immigrants are very sympathetic to: Socialism -- or "statism," if you prefer -- is as American as apple pie.

Also remember that a person's ideology is much like his religion: It involves deep-seated beliefs that the individual lives and breathes. Ideology often gives people's lives meaning; they advocate for it, they sometimes die for it, and, even more frequently, they kill for it.

And our culture is dying because of it. "People get the government they deserve," as Thomas Jefferson said, because one way or another, government tends to reflect the people. This brings us to an important question: Do you want the kind of socialism -- or statism, if you prefer -- that generally prevails from the Rio Grande to Cape Horn? Well, understand that immigrants will vote for the same kind of candidates they supported in their native lands, and this won't magically change because they set foot on American terra firma. Of course, you could try the following appeal: "Ignore the folks offering you handouts and ethnic studies! Embrace our heroes and history, our love of small government and personal responsibility." Good luck with that, amigos.

5 posted on 07/14/2010 7:42:29 AM PDT by kabar
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To: McGavin999

Numbers matter. We can’t continue to take in 1.2 million legal immigrants a year. We can’t assimilate those kinds of numbers.


6 posted on 07/14/2010 7:44:39 AM PDT by kabar
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To: cranked
I suggest you read the entire article. The author is not recommending or suggesting any kind of amnesty.

It is not just a matter of votes. Once you legalize the status of the illegals and allow them to stay and work here, they can sponsor tens of millions more legal immigrants thru chain migration, i.e., family reunification. Amnesty will destroy this country with the stroke of a pen.

7 posted on 07/14/2010 7:47:25 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

Understood, but truth beknown, amnesty, in some form, is coming because mass deportation or incremental deportation is not going to be an option; therefore, the penalties for being given amnesty should be of focus, as well as having the border verifibly secured first.


8 posted on 07/14/2010 7:53:12 AM PDT by cranked
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To: kabar; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; FromLori; Gilbo_3; NFHale; ...
RE :”You see, a death by a thousand legal cuts is not actually my position. Rather, if you're the average conservative American, it's yours. And what I put forth wasn't actually a proposal. Rather, it was a reality. It's called legal immigration. Something often accompanying the disclaimer, “Look, I support legal immigration, but...” is “I realize most of the folks coming here are good, hardworking people...” Now, while I'd point out that it takes only 51 percent to qualify as “most,” this statement is correct in the following sense: Most of those arriving legally are, usingAnd the proof is in the pudding. Approximately 80 percent of new legal immigrants, once naturalized, vote as our culture-rending leftists do (for leftist Democrats). For a specific example, consider that first-time Hispanic voters cast ballots for Bill Clinton by a ratio of 15 to 1.moderns’ typical yardstick, good, hardworking people. ...And if we're going to support our current legal-immigration scheme, why get so worked up over illegal migration? We are already supporting a legal cultural death by a thousand cuts; we are already supporting the importation of nearly a million socialist-leaning voters every year. All amnesty does is expedite the process.

I tried to point this big problem out to Republicans many times but never got anywhere. This country had a massive legal immigration invasion under the Bush years (he said we needed all those workers for his growing economy) and most of them ended up voting democrat in 2008. Even now they are sympathetic to Obama and his ideas that he is doing the best anyone can and is disliked for being non-white. Our immigration system that puts relatives to the front of the line is bankrupting this country. As soon as they get in they get benefits and their kids get free college and learn to believe in government handouts. We should reform the system so those that can contribute are put at the front of the line.

9 posted on 07/14/2010 7:56:51 AM PDT by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: kabar

Let ‘em in ... let ‘em all in. BUT DON’T ALLOW THEM TO VOTE, EVER. Now, let’s see someone who is “for” illegal immigration swallow that one! This isn’t about illegals, its about votes ... lets prove it!


10 posted on 07/14/2010 7:57:36 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag (http://www.thepatriotsflag.com - The Patriot's Flag)
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To: cranked
Understood, but truth beknown, amnesty, in some form, is coming because mass deportation or incremental deportation is not going to be an option; therefore, the penalties for being given amnesty should be of focus, as well as having the border verifibly secured first.

I don't accept your premise, which is what the Left would like us to believe.

The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from experiences in Georgia, Colorado, and Arizona proving that it does.

11 posted on 07/14/2010 7:58:48 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

Oh, I agree which is why I said the best and brightest who can sustain themselves. That will automatically eliminate most of those applying.


12 posted on 07/14/2010 8:00:04 AM PDT by McGavin999 (I'm sorry, your race card is overdrawn and no further charges can be accepted)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

If we let them all in, the US will be destroyed. They are not coming here to vote, but to work and take advantage of our social welfare systems.


13 posted on 07/14/2010 8:00:26 AM PDT by kabar
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To: sickoflibs
I agree we need to go to a merit based system of immigration. We should have a pro-immigrant policy of low immigration.

The huge influx of immigration since the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act has already had a major impact on electoral politics in this nation. Here is an excellent study from Prof James Gimpel of the University of Maryland:

Immigration, Political Realignment, and the Demise of Republican Political Prospects

14 posted on 07/14/2010 8:06:12 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

First, be assured I am not a leftist, a Dem, nor am I a proponent of amnesty. Second, again, I can understand your not accepting my premise but despite my conservative inclinations, or the conservative inclinations of the vast majority of us, to agree with a non-amnesty measure(s), the fact remains that amnesty, in some form, is a foregone conclusion...it is a matter of ‘when’ and ‘what form’ than a matter of ‘if’.


15 posted on 07/14/2010 8:08:13 AM PDT by cranked
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To: McGavin999

We suffer no shortage of qualified applicants. We need to reduce the overall number of legal immigrants to around 300,000 to 500,00 a year and go to a merit based system. We also need to confine legal immigration to the nuclear family and not to the extended family. One immigrant from Nigeria sponsored 83 members of his family to this country. And once they are American citizens, they can sponsor more of their relatives.


16 posted on 07/14/2010 8:10:17 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

The single most effective remedy for illegal immigration is, in a word, DISINCENTIVE.

Clumsy word, but it sure works. If it isn’t worth the trouble, they won’t come.

Put a sign on your lawn saying “Free Food - Open House - Free Tutoring - We’ll Even Pay Your Doctor Bills - And More!” and see if you don’t attract a stampede.

When word gets around that the goodies are withdrawn, what happens? You can get the gate fixed and the front door rehung.

Not rocket science.


17 posted on 07/14/2010 8:13:03 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (STOP the Tyrananny State.)
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To: kabar
Reids says there are no illegals working in Nevada

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2552378/posts
18 posted on 07/14/2010 8:14:42 AM PDT by Fred (Obama is as Obama Does)
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To: cranked
the fact remains that amnesty, in some form, is a foregone conclusion...it is a matter of ‘when’ and ‘what form’ than a matter of ‘if’.

Sorry we will agree to disagree. It is not a foregone conclusion and must be fought at every turn. The survival of country is at stake.

Impact of Amnesty: In analyzing the 2007 CIR bill, Robert Rector of The Heritage Foundation stated, “The main fiscal impact…will occur through two mechanisms: (1) the grant of amnesty, with accompanying access to Social Security, Medicare and welfare benefits, to 12 million illegal immigrants who are overwhelmingly low skilled; and (2) a dramatic increase in chain immigration, which will also be predominantly low skilled. The bottom line is that high school dropouts are extremely expensive to U.S. taxpayers. It does not matter whether the dropout comes from Ohio, Tennessee, or Mexico. It does matter that the Senate immigration bill would increase the future flow of poorly educated immigrants into the U.S. and grant amnesty and access to government benefits to millions of poorly educated illegal aliens already here. Such legislation would inevitably impose huge costs on U.S. taxpayers.”

Heritage research has concluded that the cost of amnesty alone would be $2.6 trillion. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens. We cannot assimilate such numbers. An amnesty would destroy the United States of America with the stroke of a pen. Amnesty is forever.

19 posted on 07/14/2010 8:15:17 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Fred

Right. Who do you believe, Harry Reid or your lyin’ eyes?


20 posted on 07/14/2010 8:16:44 AM PDT by kabar
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
Illegal immigration is a problem, but so is legal immigration. 53% of LEGAL immigrants are on welfare. We are importing poverty. Milton Friedman said, “You cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state.”

There are 400,000 "anchor babies" annually. They are American citizens entitled to food stamps, Medicaid, schools, etc. One in every ten children born in this country is to an illegal.

21 posted on 07/14/2010 8:22:03 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
Reids says there are no illegals working in Nevada

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2552378/posts
22 posted on 07/14/2010 8:23:37 AM PDT by Fred (Obama is as Obama Does)
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To: kabar

All immigration should be suspended until unemployment is at 5%


23 posted on 07/14/2010 8:27:07 AM PDT by Fred (Suspend All Immigration Until Unemployment is Reduced to 5%)
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To: kabar
If we let them all in, the US will be destroyed. They are not coming here to vote, but to work and take advantage of our social welfare systems.

But if they can't vote, then we can have a majority to vote AGAINST giving them benefits! :-)

24 posted on 07/14/2010 8:30:33 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag (http://www.thepatriotsflag.com - The Patriot's Flag)
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To: Fred

I agree with that. The Bureau of Labor statistics for June 2010 show a national unemployment rate of 9.5 percent, including 15.4 percent for blacks and 12.4 percent for Hispanics. 14.6 million Americans are unemployed. Despite the economic downturn, the U.S. continues to bring in 125,000 new, legal foreign workers a month. This includes new permanent residents (green cards) and long-term temporary visas and others who are authorized to take a job. This makes no sense.


25 posted on 07/14/2010 8:30:44 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
You inspired me

And if these current modern day plantation owners, Microsoft, Oracle, Verizon, ATT etc etc ) claim that there is not a single American that can do the job...THAN FRIGGIN TRAIN ONE!!!!!
26 posted on 07/14/2010 8:33:38 AM PDT by Fred (Suspend All Immigration Until Unemployment is Reduced to 5%)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag
But if they can't vote, then we can have a majority to vote AGAINST giving them benefits! :-)

But legal immigrants can vote and we are bringing in 1.2 million a year, most of them poor and uneducated. Most of them will vote Democrat, the party of free stuff.

And the 400,000 anchor babies born to illegals every year are American citizens entitled to all of the benefits guaranteed by the Constitution and the welfare state. Importing Poverty: Immigration and Poverty in the United States: A Book of Charts by Robert Rector, The Heritage Foundation

By 2023, half of the children 18 and under will be minorities as defined by the USG and by 2042 half of the country will be minorities. Immigration, legal and illegal, has changed the demographics of this country rapidly.

27 posted on 07/14/2010 8:37:30 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

NEVER!
No illegal should EVER be allowed citizenship.
EVER!


28 posted on 07/14/2010 8:37:55 AM PDT by Flintlock
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To: kabar
Excellent post. By concentrating almost entirely on illegal immigration we as a country have taken our eyes off the ball which has been rolling down the proverbial hill since Kennedy's immigration reform in the 60’s, that being legal immigration and the subsequent chain migration which follows it. The notion that we can assimilate this many people, many who have no intentions on assimilating in the first place, is preposterous. This is further compounded by the fact that the majority of immigrants, both legal and illegal, come from a third world nation that borders us to the south, making assimilation all the more difficult. It's not very hard at all to envision the American Southwest being majority Hispanic in a very short period of time. In my mind its not a question about race its more of a question of culture. You have by and large a vast majority of immigrants coming from a culture which in many respects is different from our own with little desire to assimilate. What we need to do is to take a step back, look at the policies that are currently in effect and decide what changes need to be made for the good of the country, not the good of the next politician who needs their votes.
29 posted on 07/14/2010 8:39:21 AM PDT by RU88 (Bow to no man)
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To: Fred

Exactly. We know why Microsoft et. al. want to bring in foreign labor, i.e., they are cheaper and depress wages. Americans are being discouraged from entering these fields because wages are stagnant or declining. If there were really a shortage of labor in these fields, wages would be going up.


30 posted on 07/14/2010 8:40:43 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Flintlock

Agree. And we have to eliminate birthright citizenship as well. 400,000 “anchor babies” a year are costing us billions in social welfare costs.


31 posted on 07/14/2010 8:42:18 AM PDT by kabar
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To: RU88
Agree wholeheartedly. Professor Huntington of Harvard understood this problem more than 6 years ago.

The Hispanic Challenge By Samuel P. Huntington--The persistent inflow of Hispanic immigrants threatens to divide the United States into two peoples, two cultures, and two languages. Unlike past immigrant groups, Mexicans and other Latinos have not assimilated into mainstream U.S. culture, forming instead their own political and linguistic enclaves—from Los Angeles to Miami—and rejecting the Anglo-Protestant values that built the American dream. The United States ignores this challenge at its peril.

32 posted on 07/14/2010 8:45:14 AM PDT by kabar
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To: cranked

Deporting them or forcing them to self-deport is an option if we say it is. Arizona has taken some steps in that direction, and other states are about to follow suit. We don’t need 20 million semi-literates from a backward culture and their anchor babies and their relatives.

The “penalties” approach is not only a farce, but cultural and national suicide.


33 posted on 07/14/2010 8:54:55 AM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: sickoflibs
I tried to point this big problem out to Republicans many times but never got anywhere.
It's a Kabuki dance between radicals on the Left and "diplomats" allegedly on the Right.

What the diplomatic "Progressives" have always done is insert themselves between the radical Left and the outraged conservative and turn to the conservative and demand that the latter must give up some ground. And get downright angry at the conservatives when they point to the breaking of principles and the constitution.

It's from giving in a little here and a little there that their nothing left to give. It is conservative in nature to defend the status quo right? Well, the newest generation hasn't known anything of the freedoms the boomers were born into and permitted to be whittled away. What will it take for every American to recognize the truth of my tagline and decide that without a doubt "conservative" is the wrong label to place upon themselves?

Look, what will it take for a much larger number of Americans to get and refuse to take it any more?

Both parties are playing for the tyranny faction. Now the Dems are ruled by the radicals with their nihilistic notions that lead to control by the powerful outside of law, and in general daily speaks the most nonsense anyone has ever seen. And the GOP is dominated by leaders who are undeclared enemies of the constitution -- Statist republicans -- who are prepared to provide the power that rules -- they are no -nonsense about it too and will turn a dime and get angry with real conservatives. Conservatives like you see condescension at best and almost never see the diplomat the Dems see.

While I don't trust Michael Savage right now, he does use a few turns of phrase that I love.

“Don’t you get it yet? What are you? Crazy?”

“It’s two card Monte, and there’s no bean under either nut.”

We should reform the system so those that can contribute are put at the front of the line so that elected leaders fear the people rather than the people fear their rulers.

34 posted on 07/14/2010 9:07:05 AM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla (Yesterday's Left = today's status quo. Thus CONSERVATIVE is a conflicted label for battling tyranny.)
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To: kabar

How about this...
1. Secure the border. Provide military to guard it.
2. Tell all illegals to go to a post office and sign the book, get their worker ID and be productive. No citizenship. If they want citizenship, get to the end of the line.
Anyone who doesn’t sign up, immediate deport/no return ever.
Commit a felony, immediate deport/no return ever.
Cross illegally, immediate deport/no return ever.
Gang banger, immediate deport/no return ever.
Then we can debate on the number allowed in per year.


35 posted on 07/14/2010 9:10:49 AM PDT by dockkiller (COME AND TAKE IT.)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

Ping!


36 posted on 07/14/2010 9:28:18 AM PDT by HiJinx (I can see November from my front porch - and Mexico from the back.)
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To: dockkiller
2. Tell all illegals to go to a post office and sign the book, get their worker ID and be productive. No citizenship. If they want citizenship, get to the end of the line.

What you are proposing is amnesty. The end of the line begins in their home countries. There are an estimated 3 million intending immigrants waiting their turn overseas. Some have waited years to enter. They have obeyed the law and completed all of their paperwork to enter this country as an immigrant. What kind of message does that send to them or anyone else wishing to enter this country legally?

Why must we allow people who entered our country illegally, committed ID theft, worked illegally, failed to pay taxes, etc. to stay and work here. Does the Rule of Law count for nothing? Conferring rights and privileges upon illegal aliens has a corrosive effect on the Rule of Law, the very foundation of our Republic. It is also a slap in the face to legal immigrants who have followed the rules and obeyed the laws.

Here is what we should do:

We need a pro-immigrant, low immigration policy that contains the following elements:

 A merit based immigration system that brings in the skills and talents to keep us competitive in the global economy;

 Reduced immigration levels based on need and more closely approximating 500,000 immigrants a year recommended by the Jordan Commission;

 Elimination of extended chain migration, i.e., family reunification, limiting it to the nuclear family;

 Enforcement of existing immigration laws to reduce the current illegal alien population and limit future illegal immigration, i.e., attrition thru enforcement. Enforcement would include: (1) ending the job magnet; (2) increasing coordination at the federal level by eliminating barriers to information sharing among agencies; (3) leveraging state and local enforcement resources; (4)securing the border and fully implementing the US-VISIT Program to track and deport visa overstays; and (5) make mandatory and improve such programs as E-Verify and 287 [g] authority to assist employers and law enforcement in identifying illegal aliens;

 Elimination of birthright citizenship;

 Ensure that anyone who enters this nation illegally is not rewarded by being permitted to stay and work here; i.e., no amnesty;

 Streamline the processing and adjudication of immigration cases; and

 Promote pro-immigrant measures that help newcomers assimilate and embrace the values and principles of our Founders and the Constitution.

37 posted on 07/14/2010 9:28:22 AM PDT by kabar
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To: cranked

false. Mass deportation is in the cards. The greatest gift we could give to Mexico in fact would be the return of their middle class.


38 posted on 07/14/2010 9:31:10 AM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: kabar
I like your idea better, but I'm looking for a solution that will work in reality.

I believe the politicians will never send the illegals back because they fear the looting and pillaging that will occur on the way back. It's the dirty little secret. We may have a regional war on our soil if we tried something like Operation Wetback again.

I don't want amnesty. Again, no citizenship, just temporary work status. We'll need a few years to flush out the worst of them.

Once we have control of the situation, a government of grown-ups can implement your plan.

39 posted on 07/14/2010 9:42:06 AM PDT by dockkiller (COME AND TAKE IT.)
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To: dockkiller
I believe the politicians will never send the illegals back because they fear the looting and pillaging that will occur on the way back. It's the dirty little secret. We may have a regional war on our soil if we tried something like Operation Wetback again.

The pro-amensty types are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from experiences in Georgia, Colorado, and Arizona proving that it does.

I see no sense of urgency in deporting them. We just make conditions so uncomfortable that they self-deport and we put in place measures that discourage others from coming. Leagalizing the status of those already here, just invites more to come. We had a one time amnesty in 1986. It didn't work.

Once we have control of the situation, a government of grown-ups can implement your plan.

No, we implement my plan as the first choice. There is no such thing as temporary workers. They stay, have children, change status, and are joined by their friends and relatives. When you subsidize or reward illegal behavior, you get more of it.

We just need to start enforcing our existing laws. Much of which you want is already in place in terms of the legal framework. All of the estimated two million criminal aliens should be deported and according to the law, all of the 12 to 20 million lawbreakers should be deported. Employers should be fined for hiring illegals. It is part of the law.

40 posted on 07/14/2010 9:54:14 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Buckeye McFrog

in the past we have always had extensive programs to educate, Americanize and assimilate new immigrants. The difference today is that the people behind this are deliberately trying to Balkanize us.>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Plus most 85% of immigrants are from the 3rd world....Meaning they get affirmative action preferences in schools, universities and employment. They get in line before your children and you.


41 posted on 07/14/2010 10:05:56 AM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: Avoiding_Sulla

Avoiding Sulla, it’s funny that you should mention the faults of conservatism. I’ve been reading Duke for a while and in 2008 he wrote about exactly what you’re talking about. It’s here: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1917

His explanation of the problem with conservatism is the best I’ve seen.


42 posted on 07/14/2010 10:09:54 AM PDT by Paladins Prayer
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Which, ironically, the only solution is the dissolution of the Union; States wishing to secede should be alowed to.


43 posted on 07/14/2010 10:12:25 AM PDT by glide625
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To: kabar

Excellent article. We need a fence and visa reform to stop illegal immigration. But legal immigration has to be made skills based and reduced. For example, most of the legal Mexican immigrants are as ill educated and non-English speaking as the illegal ones.

We get 400,000 legal immigrants from Mexico each year which is insane. Most of them are poor and will never advance, nor will their offspring


44 posted on 07/14/2010 10:17:03 AM PDT by dennisw (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid - Gen Eisenhower)
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To: kabar
I still like your idea better, but it's more complicated than you would like it to be.

Our government encouraged people to come here for 20 years without threat of prosecution. Even today, it is easy to come and stay. I don't think the laws are really there either. Being here illegally is a misdemeanor for the first incident.

The government allowed them to buy real estate, put their kids in our schools, open bank accounts.

We are the government. Since we enjoyed cheap building labor and cheap fruit, we indirectly encouraged it too. Not you in particular, but us as a people.

Once the border is secure, we will need workers. Remember, we only have 1.2 kids for every two people so we are not replenishing our own people. We have Mexicans as our immigrant/slave culture. Europe has North African muslims. But the dynamic is the same.

I agree on employers too, but again it's complicated. OSHA can fine $10K per incident if a 16 year old kid puts trash in a hydraulic dumpster at the local grocery store. A fine of $10K per illegal would put the onus on employers and probably fix the problem quickly. No where to work-no need to cross. Problem is, you have to give the employer a way to verify. Biometric? Then we all get it or illegals will just forge our required docs and ID.

I'd like to send them all back. In my business, I might be an instant millionaire. But I don't want my kids to have to fight a civil war that could be avoided. I also don't want my dad's neighborhood to loose 80% of its residents overnight. A lot of places in the south will look like Detroit or Dearborn.

Again. No amnesty either. No path, no special status. Write them a ticket for that misdemeanor and lets get the problem solved.

45 posted on 07/14/2010 10:22:04 AM PDT by dockkiller (COME AND TAKE IT.)
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To: sickoflibs
Our immigration system that puts relatives to the front of the line is bankrupting this country. As soon as they get in they get benefits and their kids get free college and learn to believe in government handouts. We should reform the system so those that can contribute are put at the front of the line.

You're right on this, sickoflibs.

46 posted on 07/14/2010 10:32:03 AM PDT by GOPJ (Voter intimidation? New Black Panthers and old White Citizens Council - brothers under the skin.)
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To: Paladins Prayer

Thanks for the tip. I follow Selwyn too, but I don’t recall this one. He frequently turns up on the Savage Nation where he basically reads from his column in one of the Doc’s mock interviews in the 3rd hour. It’s possible his thoughts filtered to mine, but I hope it’s because we both see clearly.

Good men are neither easily deceived nor easily put off from speaking from their heart despite an ocean of neighbors inclined to be angered not by our message, but with us, the messenger.

I posted a comment similar to the one you responded to over at yesterday’s Savage Nation thread. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2551997/posts?page=29#29

There I complained of how even talk radio is showbiz, and it’s why I think we should be wary of anything we hear there.

Orwell expressed it best when he showed that under Statism, the state provides its own resistance. The reality will make any rational man shudder because such efforts are aimed at undermining rational thought hopes and dreams let alone organized resistance to those who’ve taken over the state.


47 posted on 07/14/2010 10:39:26 AM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla (Yesterday's Left = today's status quo. Thus CONSERVATIVE is a conflicted label for battling tyranny.)
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To: dockkiller
Our government encouraged people to come here for 20 years without threat of prosecution. Even today, it is easy to come and stay. I don't think the laws are really there either. Being here illegally is a misdemeanor for the first incident.

Not enforcing the law is not encouragement. It is dereliction. That doesn't excuse the problem or those who have violated our laws.

A misdemeanor is a crime and the violator is supposed to be deported. And there are plenty of felonies being committed as well including ID theft, failure to pay taxes, falsification of employment documents, tax evasion, etc. One of the biggest "encouragements" was the 1986 amnesty bill, which just encouraged more illegal immigration so people could come expecting another amnesty.

The government allowed them to buy real estate, put their kids in our schools, open bank accounts.

LOL. "Allowed" is just a ridiculous word to use. We failed to fully enforce our laws. A few were prosecuted, but most were not. The SCOTUS (Plyler vs. Doe) ruled that schools must accept all students regardless of immigration status and were prohibited from checking it. And just because the government has done a terrible job of enforcement doesn't mean that the lawbreakers must be excused for their unlawful actions. They committed crimes and must bear the consequences.

We are the government. Since we enjoyed cheap building labor and cheap fruit, we indirectly encouraged it too. Not you in particular, but us as a people.

It is illegal for people who entered this country to work here and it is illegal for employers to hire them. That is the law. Using the rationale that since we did such a poor job of enforcing the laws, it is our fault and the lawbreakers are just victims. It is like blaming the person who left his front door unlocked allowing a thief to enter and steal his possessions. Regardless of whether the door was locked or not, the thief violated the law and should be prosecuted.

Once the border is secure, we will need workers. Remember, we only have 1.2 kids for every two people so we are not replenishing our own people. We have Mexicans as our immigrant/slave culture. Europe has North African muslims. But the dynamic is the same.

Our fertility rate is 2.06, right at replacement level. Since 1970, the U.S. population has increased from 203 million to 310 million, i.e., over 100 million. In the next 40 years, the population will increase by 130 million. Three-quarters of the increase in our population since 1970 and the projected increase will be the result of immigration. The U.S., the world’s third most populous nation, has the highest annual rate of population growth of any developed country in the world, i.e., 0.97% (2010 estimate), principally due to immigration.

Slave culture? Mexicans and others come to this country voluntarily seeking a better life. Currently, 1.6 million legal and illegal immigrants settle in the country each year; 350,000 immigrants leave each year, resulting in net immigration of 1.25 million.

agree on employers too, but again it's complicated. OSHA can fine $10K per incident if a 16 year old kid puts trash in a hydraulic dumpster at the local grocery store. A fine of $10K per illegal would put the onus on employers and probably fix the problem quickly. No where to work-no need to cross. Problem is, you have to give the employer a way to verify. Biometric? Then we all get it or illegals will just forge our required docs and ID.

We already have laws against employers hiring illegals and the E-verify program is supposed to assist employers in the process. AZ has made E-verify mandatory for all businesses and it has a major impact on the hiring of illegals. They are leaving.

I'd like to send them all back. In my business, I might be an instant millionaire. But I don't want my kids to have to fight a civil war that could be avoided. I also don't want my dad's neighborhood to loose 80% of its residents overnight. A lot of places in the south will look like Detroit or Dearborn.

If we don't get a handle on this problem, you kids will be living in a third country that will be Balkanized along cultural, racial, and linguistic lines. By 2050 the Census Bureau estimates that one in three residents of this country will be Hispanic. We are being colonized.

Again. No amnesty either. No path, no special status. Write them a ticket for that misdemeanor and lets get the problem solved.

That is not the way to solve it. You only make the situation worse. Allowing people to stay and work here is amnesty period. The only ticket they should get is a one-way home.

48 posted on 07/14/2010 11:02:41 AM PDT by kabar
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To: achilles2000

Again, understood.


49 posted on 07/14/2010 11:04:50 AM PDT by cranked
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To: kabar

You are not “hearing” me. I said, let them in, but THEY CAN NEVER VOTE, EVER! So they will have NO SAY in how we spend our tax dollars ... and if WE, THE CITIZENS of the USA decide we aren’t going to fund “free health care” for them, then they are “on their own.” I don’t want them here either, don’t get me wrong. But if they let them in, then the stipulation as part of the “so called” amnesty is that they can NEVER vote. Let’s see a Democrat pass it with THAT attached to it. The only reason they are doing this is to get votes, so take that away and what reasons are left?


50 posted on 07/14/2010 12:40:32 PM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag (http://www.thepatriotsflag.com - The Patriot's Flag)
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