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Why President Obama is betting big on battery plants in Michigan,
MLive.com ^ | July 14, 2010 | Rick Haglund

Posted on 07/14/2010 3:47:57 PM PDT by KeyLargo

Heads up Michigan Freepers.

Why President Obama is betting big on battery plants in Michigan,

Updated: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 11:57 AM Rick Haglund .

HOLLAND -- Michigan might seem to be the last place a beleaguered president looking for a positive economic bounce would visit.

After all, the state is known for having the worst-performing economy in the U.S. during the past decade.

And although Michigan no longer is tagged with the highest unemployment rate in the nation -- Nevada now holds that distinction -- joblessness here still stands at an unacceptable 13.6 percent.

But President Barack Obama will be in Holland Thursday to showcase a factory in an industry that holds promise for a brighter manufacturing future: advanced batteries that power electric and hybrid vehicles

(Excerpt) Read more at mlive.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: 62000jobsinchina; batteries; green; holland; hybrid; jennygrandstand; michigan; obama

1 posted on 07/14/2010 3:48:01 PM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

That industry is dead on arrival. The UAW will kill it.


2 posted on 07/14/2010 3:49:15 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: Parley Baer
That industry is dead on arrival. The UAW will kill it.

....and if they don't, think of the ecological disaster that one of those plants is sure to cause at some point in the future either from true accident or negligence.

3 posted on 07/14/2010 3:53:30 PM PDT by Roccus (......and then there were none.)
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To: KeyLargo

All the battery industry needs now is the technology to make batteries which can do the job ... My bet, it won’t happen in our lifetimes. Batteries are great for cell phones, but I notice no one wants to talk about what the car powering batteries will cost to manufacture.

Battery powered and flying cars come from the same science fiction liberal minds.

I also note, the jug eared jackass doesn’t want to tell people coal can be refined into gasoline and diesel fuel for the price of under $30 a barrel oil equivalent.


4 posted on 07/14/2010 3:56:39 PM PDT by Tarpon (Obama-Speak ... the fusion of sophistry and Newspeak. It's not a gift, it's just lies.)
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To: KeyLargo

We aren’t counting on it to amount to much more than a money hole.


5 posted on 07/14/2010 4:01:21 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: KeyLargo
GW Junk Yard
6 posted on 07/14/2010 4:01:32 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Tarpon
jug eared jackass

Me likee long time!

7 posted on 07/14/2010 4:02:30 PM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Tarpon

Here in Michigan our legislature mandates ever larger cuts in production for coal and gas fired plants. At the same time, they deny permits for new clean coal fired plants, citing a “lack of demand” as the reason.

Meanwhile they approve permits for wind farms despite the lack of demand that prevents the building of clean coal fired plants.


8 posted on 07/14/2010 4:04:29 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Parley Baer

And who controls the raw materials? Ain’t the US IIRC.


9 posted on 07/14/2010 4:12:39 PM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
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To: KeyLargo

Anybody believe in same-day coincidences?:

“G.M. to Guarantee Battery in Its Electric Car”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2552693/posts


10 posted on 07/14/2010 4:14:31 PM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: NewHampshireDuo

I Believe China is the leader in rare earth metals mined.


11 posted on 07/14/2010 4:18:42 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: KeyLargo

No body wants the dog food the Won is selling.

NOBODY


12 posted on 07/14/2010 4:19:58 PM PDT by Carley (For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.)
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To: KeyLargo

Truly renewable energy does not and cannot exist.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/27b49r6


13 posted on 07/14/2010 4:21:08 PM PDT by preacher (A government which robs from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.)
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To: KeyLargo
"Why President Obama is betting big on battery plants in Michigan, "

It's not the battery plants he's "big" on, it's union payback time. GM is going to be a disaster, so he's desperate.


unions


14 posted on 07/14/2010 4:25:30 PM PDT by FrankR (When we don't stand up to tyranny, the tyrants WIN.)
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To: KeyLargo
Barack Obama will be in Holland Thursday to showcase a factory in an industry that holds promise for a brighter manufacturing future: advanced batteries that power electric and hybrid vehicles
Everything Obama touches turns to shit and blows up in his face...I hope no one is injured in the battery plant explosion.
15 posted on 07/14/2010 4:28:29 PM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: cripplecreek

Detroit, is that in Michigan? hmmm ... you got some work to do.

Spread the word that coal can be gasoline ...


16 posted on 07/14/2010 4:28:57 PM PDT by Tarpon (Obama-Speak ... the fusion of sophistry and Newspeak. It's not a gift, it's just lies.)
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To: KeyLargo
Because battery manufacturing is so environmentally friendly, what with all those heavy metals and all.
17 posted on 07/14/2010 4:30:55 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law." -- Aristotle)
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To: KeyLargo
-- advanced batteries that power electric and hybrid vehicles --

Heinz has a large pickle processing and canning operation in Holland - I think it is, to this day, the largest such operation in the US, if not the world.

Stick dissimilar metals in a pickle, and voila, electric cell! Wire many cells together, battery!

18 posted on 07/14/2010 4:32:10 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

re: Stick dissimilar metals in a pickle

All that’s left to do now is determine which works better, a dill pickle or a sweet gherkin. Scuttlebutt has it the next generation of these cells will use pickled pig’s feet.


19 posted on 07/14/2010 4:36:30 PM PDT by jwparkerjr
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To: KeyLargo

Because he is a major league Clymer.


20 posted on 07/14/2010 4:38:53 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
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To: Parley Baer
The UAW will kill it.

Yes, they will want starting salaries of $150k and 30 hour weeks. Meanwhile, China will come out with a battery twice as good for 1/4 the cost. But zero won't let them die. He will subsidize the US batteries and GM will use them.

21 posted on 07/14/2010 6:06:53 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (The Obama magic is <strike>fading</strike>gone.)
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To: KeyLargo

Groundbreaking?? You mean they can’t find any vacant factories in Michigan that can be used? It will probably take three years to build the thing.


22 posted on 07/14/2010 6:10:17 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (The Obama magic is <strike>fading</strike>gone.)
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To: KeyLargo
joblessness here still stands at an unacceptable 13.6 percent.

So how is it "unacceptable?" It is not being changed thus it is being "accepted." To be unacceptable to the government the government would have to hire enough people somehow to change the rate or would have to kill or deport a certain portion of the unemployed to bring the rate down to an "acceptable" level.

23 posted on 07/14/2010 10:57:23 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: Tarpon

Car Guy

Electric Cars and Economics 101

By Eric Peters on 1.6.09 @ 6:07AM

The big problem with electric cars isn’t technological. It’s economic. And one’s just as defeating as the other, if the object is to come up with an electric vehicle that’s more than just a cute plaything for a handful of over-rich Hollywood celebs.

Consider GM’s EV-1 of the 1990s.

Remember?

It was a snarky looking two-seater straight out of Buck Rogers in the 25th Century. Worked pretty well, too — despite what you might have read. True, its range on a single charge-up was only about a fourth of what the typical IC (internal combustion) conventional car could manage — about 70 miles or so. But that impediment was more psychological than meaningfully functional.

How many of us, after all, drive 70 miles one-way on a regular basis? Even a long commute isn’t that long. More like 20-30 miles, for most of us. Right? And even if you push the envelope and the trip’s close to the thing’s max range, if it’s a commute to work, you don’t need to go anywhere for hours once you’ve parked and plugged in. Yes? So the beast would be fully recharged for the trip home.

For knocking around/commuting, the EV-1’s main functional limitation was not its range; it was its two-seater configuration — and limited cargo-carrying capacity. Kind of like owning any other small two-seater, such as a BMW roadster or a Porsche.

But the EV-1 had another thing in common with BMWs and Porsches — its price. Even by mid-’90s standards (when it was available to the public), the EV-1 was not a cheap date. About $35,000 — which is actually considerably more (adjusted for inflation) than the current base price of a 2009 model year BMW Z4 roadster ($36,700).

Now, if the whole point of owning an electric car is to save money — by saving on fuel costs — then a $35,000 electric car is as pointless, from an economy standpoint, as spending $10,000 to outfit your house with new triple pane windows but leaving them open all winter long.

Rich people don’t care about gas prices. To them, $3 or $4 per gallon is like what a few extra pennies jangling in our pockets is to us. Chump change!

NEXT UP, the Tesla roadster. It proves beyond any question that electric cars can also be blindingly quick and drop-dead gorgeous. It equals or beats the straight line performance (and handling) of just about any exotic sports car on the road. Keep in mind, electric motors have a huge advantage over IC engines when it comes to performance. They produce tremendous torque immediately — no waiting for the RPMs to build. There is so much torque available, in fact, that a car like the Tesla can’t really make full use of it — very much like a ‘60s-era SS 454 Chevelle on 14-inch rims.

The point, though, is not the Tesla’s superb performance. It is the car’s stupefying six-figure price tag — $109,000 (before taxes and tags). It’s important to bear in mind that as interesting as the Tesla is, from a technology standpoint, it is basically a modified Lotus Elise roadster — which you can pick up for $46,270. The two cars perform similarly, but if you bought the Lotus, you’d still have $62,730 left over (the “change” remaining vs. the cost of the Tesla).

How much gas does $62k buy? Even at $10 per gallon, odds are you’d be in Depends before you ever had to pay for a drop of fuel again.

So, what’s the point?

Like the EV-1, the Tesla is a talking point. It is sure to get you noticed. You’ll be driving something “different.” But you sure as heck aren’t going to be saving yourself any money.

WHICH BRINGS US to the final entrant, GM’s forthcoming Volt, which is a quasi-electric car in that it still has an IC engine, but it’s only there to function as an onboard generator, keeping the batteries juiced up but playing no real in propelling the car.

Again, very neat stuff. But once again, it’s hardly economical.

GM has indicated the retail price of the Volt will be in the $30k range when it appears sometime in 2010. Maybe as much as $35k or even $40k. Which means that, like the EV-1 of the ‘90s, the Volt is in the same price range as entry-luxury cars — and therefore by definition not an economical choice, no matter how much it “saves” you on fuel. None of that matters if the thing eats you to the bone up front, eh?

Which brings us full circle. Electric cars have proven they work. It’s not the range, the batteries, the performance or the looks.

All that has been handled.

The problem is they are still too expensive to make sense for the average person. Until someone can figure out a way to build a serviceable electric car that’s priced competitively with current $11k-$15k economy cars, it’s nothing more than a feel-good engineering exercise.

Most people would be better advised to shop a used Corolla or Civic. They get 35 mpg without elaborate and expensive technology — and you can pick up a cherry two or three-year-old example for $8k or so.

It may not be “green” to talk this way — but that’s the truth about electric cars and Economics 101.

Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International). His latest book, Road Hogs, is due out in 2010.

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/01/06/electric-cars-and-economics-10/print


24 posted on 07/15/2010 5:08:08 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: musicman

Do electric cars really help the environment? Are they 'green'?

"Are hybrid and electric vehicle batteries a green alternative or add hazardous chemicals to our landfills? Are all battery components recyclable? While waste management and recycling practices progress, is it possible to rescue every car battery from the landfill?

Some environmentally conscience people are concerned that hybrid bliss might turn into a toxic chaos, when today's hybrid vehicles batteries are disposed. With the advances in hybrid and electric vehicles (EV), developments of alternative batteries have re-opened the environmental debate about car battery technology."

25 posted on 07/15/2010 5:15:40 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

Yes, it’s economics, always is — but the technology to produce economic solutions is what matters. Engineers like to say, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. And then why would someone produce things that are obviously not cost effective? Well like the old Soviet Union, because government tells them to. And look where that ends up.

Suicide clown cars get good gas mileage ... But most sane people don’t want to ride around in their coffins.

Economics and technology interchange for most people. Things that get built for sale must be able to be sold at cheap competitive prices to form markets.

And right now the cost of a gallon of gasoline wins that race hands down.

So in the end it is battery technology that is limiting the usefulness and competitiveness of electric clown cars and golf carts.


26 posted on 07/15/2010 6:09:50 AM PDT by Tarpon (Obama-Speak ... the fusion of sophistry and Newspeak. It's not a gift, it's just lies.)
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To: lewislynn

Oh boy, giant cell phone and laptop batteries. Has anybody checked where they get the vast amounts of Lithium to build all these giant cellphone batteries? Think laptop fire of what you are sitting in, after the crash of your suicide clown ‘battery’ car.

It’s time to stop the nonsense.


27 posted on 07/15/2010 6:15:08 AM PDT by Tarpon (Obama-Speak ... the fusion of sophistry and Newspeak. It's not a gift, it's just lies.)
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To: KeyLargo
From a related article:

When completed, the LG Chem facility will produce lithium ion batteries for Chevy Volt and Ford Focus cars. It's expected to create about 450 jobs.

...the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which funded about half of the $300 million plant, points out Progress Michigan, a Lansing-based group.

28 posted on 07/15/2010 6:23:10 AM PDT by FourPeas (God Save America)
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To: Parley Baer
"That industry is dead on arrival. The UAW will kill it."

Holland Michigan is the OPPOSITE of what you think when you think of Michigan. It is a very conservative pocket in Michigan (Congressman is Pete Hoekstra-R), and there is a LOT of anti- or at least non-union sentiment there.

When I grew up there, while Johnson was slamming Goldwater 60-40%, the result was the opposite in Holland, with 60% voting Goldwater, and little has changed since then.

29 posted on 07/15/2010 4:43:00 PM PDT by cookcounty ("Today's White House reporters seem one ball short of a ping pong scrimmage.")
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To: cripplecreek
"I Believe China is the leader in rare earth metals mined"

If Bush was in Iraq for oil,

.....is Obama in Afghanistan for Lithium?

Michael? Michael Moore? Michigan's Michael Moore????

30 posted on 07/15/2010 4:47:08 PM PDT by cookcounty ("Today's White House reporters seem one ball short of a ping pong scrimmage.")
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To: cookcounty

Fat Mikey is too busy soaking up tax dollars that he opposes for filming in Michigan to be bothered with Obama corruption.


31 posted on 07/15/2010 4:50:19 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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2009 Michigan to Receive a $1.7 Billion Jumpstart
Four major manufacturers of batteries for hybrid and electric cars are investing more than $1.7 billion to build new manufacturing plants in Michigan.

The companies — A123Systems, Johnson Controls, LG Chem-Compact Power and KD Advanced Battery Group — secured the tax credits to build the facilities, which could create 6,700 jobs for a state economy that is intertwined with the fortunes of the struggling American automakers. As those companies focus on producing more fuel-efficient vehicles, Michigan is positioning itself to become the “advanced battery capital of the world,” Michigan Governor Jennifer M. Granholm said in a statement on Tuesday.

“Today marks a defining moment for Michigan’s future as we see a new industry begin to take root and grow new jobs,” she said.

Gov. Granholm signed legislation in January for $335 million in refundable tax credits to bring battery developers to Michigan. Last week, she boosted those incentives up to $555 million, putting Michigan in contention for up to $2 billion in federal advanced-battery development grants, according to a statement issued by the governor’s office.

Based on the recommendations of the Michigan Economic Development Corp. (MEDC), the Michigan Economic Growth Authority (MEGA) approved a total of $543.5 million in tax credits for the battery companies’ expansions.

A123Systems has secured $125.2 million in tax breaks in order to open a new production plant in Livonia, MI. The Massachusetts-based developer of lithium-ion batteries is investing $600 million in the new facility, which is expected to create more than 5,000 new jobs.

“We expect that our planned new facilities in Michigan will serve as a global product center, powering a new generation of cleaner, more fuel efficient cars and trucks,” said David Vieau, president and chief executive officer of A123.

“The company recently partnered with Chrysler to supply battery cells and systems for the car manufacturer’s forthcoming ENVI line of electric cars. A123 has also been commissioned to produce battery cells for Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. (SAIC), the maker of China’s first hybrid electric vehicle.

A123 already received $10 million from the state in November, for the purpose of creating a research and development center focused on batteries for the automobile, defense and alternative energy industries. The R&D institution will be based in the new Livonia facility, performing research projects with the University of Michigan and Michigan State University.

Milwaukee-based Johnson Controls - Saft Advanced Power Solutions (JCS) plans to invest $220 million to construct its first U.S. cell manufacturing facility for lithium-ion batteries for hybrid and electric vehicles, potentially creating 498 new jobs. The battery supplier intends to build on one of its existing sites in Holland, MI.

JCS will receive $148.5 million from MEGA. The company said in a press release that it also plans to apply for a grant through the federal American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (AARA) next month.

JCS has been contracted to produce lithium-ion batteries for Ford’s first plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, due to debut in 2012. JCS is also developing batteries for BMW’s and Azure Dynamics’ hybrid lines, which will each be available in 2010.

Korean chemical company LG Chem, in partnership with its U.S. subsidiary Compact Power and General Motors (GM), plans to invest $200 million in a new manufacturing facility, creating a projected 300 new jobs. The company is receiving $125.2 million from the state.

LGC-CPI is the battery supplier for GM’s Chevrolet Volt, which aims to be the first mass-produced extended-range electric vehicle. The Volt is scheduled to make its debut in 2010.

KD Advanced Battery Group (KD), a composite of The Dow Chemical Co., Kokam America Inc. and Townsend Ventures LLC, is making the largest capital investment, with a $665 million, 800,000-square-foot manufacturing plant. The joint venture formed for the sole purpose of building and operating the facility, which will produce its patented Superior Lithium Polymer Battery and would likely employ about 885 people.

KD was approved for $144.6 million in tax credits by MEGA.

“The state of Michigan is facilitating growth to address critical needs: sustainable technologies and manufacturing prowess, all at an equally critical time,” said Heinz Haller, executive vice president, Performance Products, The Dow Chemical Co. http://www.costar.com/News/Article.aspx?id=B7F34F063835EBD28A47DA19E66308F9


32 posted on 07/15/2010 4:56:11 PM PDT by anglian
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To: cookcounty
Holland Michigan is the OPPOSITE of what you think when you think of Michigan.

That's true of most of the state really. Only about 10 of our 83 counties consistently vote democrat. We were relatively early with our concealed carry laws and those get better all the time. We've banned gay marriage and affirmative action.

I think we'll see the 1st and 7th district flip to GOP hands this time plus a GOP pickup of the governor's mansion.
33 posted on 07/15/2010 4:58:27 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Wait a few years when hundreds of thousands of dead batteries need to be disposed of. NIMBY!!!


34 posted on 07/15/2010 5:06:36 PM PDT by csmusaret (A government that can dictate how much water flows into a toilet is a powerful government indeed.)
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Ship all the death trap cars to dem states. Let them suffer the blackouts as well.

OBAMA: “So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted. … You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know — Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad. Because I’m capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it — whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.”

35 posted on 07/15/2010 5:06:39 PM PDT by anglian
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To: anglian
So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can.

Apparently we can't in Michigan. Permits to build clean coal fired plants are being denied due to a "lack of demand". Oddly enough, permits to build wind farms are being approved despite the "lack of demand" that won't allow clean coal.
36 posted on 07/15/2010 6:37:02 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Roccus

Poll to freep:

Will you ever buy an electric vehicle?

*

No

71%
*

Yes

http://www.560wind.com/default.aspx


37 posted on 07/16/2010 7:59:10 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: cookcounty

Then the leftists can blame “Big Battery” for all our wars.


38 posted on 07/16/2010 9:17:32 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (drain the swamp! ( then napalm it and pave it over ))
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