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U.S. OKs Iroquois Passports; U.K. Won't
Lacrosse Magazine ^ | 7/14/2010 | Staff

Posted on 07/14/2010 7:05:29 PM PDT by rivercat

After a four-day faceoff with the U.S. government ended Wednesday, the Iroquois Nationals encountered another obstacle: the British government. As a result, the team must forfeit its Federation of International Lacrosse (FIL) World Championships opener against host England in Manchester on Thursday.

(Excerpt) Read more at laxmagazine.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: iroquois; lacrosse; lax

1 posted on 07/14/2010 7:05:30 PM PDT by rivercat
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To: rivercat

Just when you think governments can’t possibly get anymore stupid...


2 posted on 07/14/2010 7:06:37 PM PDT by rivercat
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To: rivercat

This little fuss happened at a rather inopportune time. It would have been better for the Iroquois to have waited for the implementation of their independent passports, until the world at large got the issue sorted out. Not pressing the issue right when it was going to screw up something of importance to them.


3 posted on 07/14/2010 7:12:07 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: rivercat
I've got to respectfully disagree. These players want to make some kind of political statement by using their tribal passports. That's fine. Unfortunately, the UK is making their own political statement, and that statement is we have treaties with the US & Canada that allow people traveling on US and Canadian passports to enter without visas. The UK has no such treaty with this tribe.

Perhaps the players should have thought about that before making their political statement. If you want to be your own country, then be your own country, and accept all the responsibility that comes with that - like negotiating visitation and immigration treaties with sovereign nations.

4 posted on 07/14/2010 7:12:52 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: rivercat

Are these guys from the reserve near Brantford, Ontario?


5 posted on 07/14/2010 7:17:02 PM PDT by wolfpat (Moderate=Clueless)
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To: OldDeckHand
Cry me a river. The Iraqois are either American or they aren't. They can decide, and we can respond accordingly.

Official acceptance of such divisionalism/exceptionalism tells me: America was a great idea, but didn't last.

It's dead, Jim. Toast.

Stick a fork in it.

It's gone.

6 posted on 07/14/2010 7:20:20 PM PDT by Clint Williams ( America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: rivercat

They wouldn’t take my Kingdom of Jones passport either, the bastards!!


7 posted on 07/14/2010 7:24:53 PM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard
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To: rivercat

Rivercat, I have mixed thoughts on it, but when it gets right down to it, this could have been hashed out some time ago, or later on. Making a stand when it’s going to cost your youth is rotten.

It bothers me these kids had to forfeit a game. It’s double that for me because these people invented the sport. It also bothers me we are being gamed on this issue right now.

Who was stupid here? Our government or the Iroquois for picking this moment to demand something on short notice?

I’m going to have to come down on the side of the Iroquois being stupid at this moment in time.


8 posted on 07/14/2010 7:30:12 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (If McCain is a Conservative, there are no Leftists. Not Teddy K., John K., George S., Russel F...)
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To: rivercat

It will be easier when we all get our passports from the UN


9 posted on 07/14/2010 7:31:46 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: UnwashedPeasant
It will be easier when we all get our passports from the UN

As an identified FReeper, you will never get a passport.

10 posted on 07/14/2010 7:34:39 PM PDT by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Baseball is Boring|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: DoughtyOne
The Iroquois don't need a passport to travel over the Canadian border, ever.

However, they need one for international travel. That should have been fixed along time ago if they wanted international competition.

11 posted on 07/14/2010 7:35:12 PM PDT by Palter (Kilroy was here.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Somehow I find it difficult to believe that the US didn’t warn the Iroquois about this hazard. With terrorists waltzing around in London every day, England has to be a bit more careful when hit with a request from an “ex-American” like them and can surely be pardoned for taking the time to investigate the situation.


12 posted on 07/14/2010 7:36:55 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: sionnsar

We will get them from the Nation of Freep, whose president is Jim Robinson and undersecretary is John Robinson.


13 posted on 07/14/2010 7:37:59 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: rivercat
If the Iroquois want to issue "passports" then it's up to them to make sure other nations will accept them.Along with "nationhood" goes duties and responsibilities.
14 posted on 07/14/2010 7:46:07 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (''I don't regret setting bombs,I feel we didn't do enough.'' ->Bill Ayers,Hussein's mentor,9/11/01)
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To: rivercat

This is the tip of an iceberg. A stealth problem that has been building up for nigh on 200 years.

The US Indian tribes have antiquated and often irrational treaties with the US that are in crying need for renegotiation. This is why reservations are often surrounded by development but have nothing other than meager welfare handouts for their infrastructure.

That is, most people assume that Indians are lazy or stupid, when in fact reservations are “black holes” of business law. Corporations would be lined up dozens deep to make deals with tribes *if they could*.

And the tribes are ticked off at the stupidity, inconvenience, and expense of having to do everything through the US government.

Granted, wanting their own passports seems on the surface to indicate that they are just being “uppity”, but the truth is more complicated.

The tribal lands are in both the US and Canada. So are the Iroquois Canadian or American? Yet both US and Canadian federal authorities feel free to go on their lands and mess with them, at least on *their* side of the border. Which isn’t a border, yet it is.

There is probably a solution here, somewhere. But whether it will be used is another matter.


15 posted on 07/14/2010 8:15:48 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Gay State Conservative

The Iroquois have been using “their” passports for decades—never had a problem. They’ve even used them to go to England before.

Now, after 911, the world is different; but OTOH bureaucracy
can be carried to unnecessary extremes, too.


16 posted on 07/14/2010 8:17:31 PM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: DoughtyOne

They have spent over 1.5 million dollars trying to get this resolved. They’ve traveled without hassle for over 20 years.


17 posted on 07/14/2010 8:28:38 PM PDT by rivercat
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To: OldDeckHand

By accepting US or Canadian Passports and acquiescing to this solution would essentially have ceded the issue of sovereign recognition on a very significant level.
They are NOT part of the US or Canada, they have their own sovereign nation and should be recognized and accepted as such!


18 posted on 07/14/2010 8:35:20 PM PDT by rivercat
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To: rivercat
They are NOT part of the US or Canada, they have their own sovereign nation and should be recognized and accepted as such!

So the Iriquois have already seceeded. Can we join?


19 posted on 07/14/2010 9:02:30 PM PDT by magooey (The Mandate of Heaven resides in the hearts of men.)
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To: rivercat
Exactly.

While I personally remain mostly happy with my maternal grandparents decision to “leave the reservation”, I am not going to make snap judgements without all the facts, regarding the people who decided to retain their full tribal rights.

It is a messed up situation.
The fact remains that certain recognized tribes have legally negotiated treaty rights within the USA. I understand there are many people who are entirely ignorant regarding these tribes, and the problems they continue to have with various levels of state and federal government agencies. It seems to me that the BIA and the State Department could have easily issued waiver documents,had they wanted to do so. Tribal members identities are generally more thoroughly documented than that of our current POTUS.

20 posted on 07/14/2010 9:07:48 PM PDT by sarasmom (No incumbent re-elected, at any level of government office.(Period))
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To: HiTech RedNeck
We will get them from the Nation of Freep, whose president is Jim Robinson and undersecretary is John Robinson.

But they need to be counter signed by Jim Thompson, without his signature they are no good.

21 posted on 07/14/2010 9:09:20 PM PDT by calex59
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To: rivercat

Does this mean that I get to use a passport issued by the Klingon Empire?


22 posted on 07/14/2010 9:13:21 PM PDT by Redcloak (What's your zombie plan?)
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To: rivercat

Okay, thanks for the mention. Haven’t they been traveling on US passports?


23 posted on 07/14/2010 9:29:24 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (If McCain is a Conservative, there are no Leftists. Not Teddy K., John K., George S., Russel F...)
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To: DoughtyOne

No, they’ve been traveling on Iroquois Nation passports for decades!


24 posted on 07/14/2010 9:58:12 PM PDT by rivercat
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To: rivercat
"They are NOT part of the US or Canada, they have their own sovereign nation and should be recognized and accepted as such!"

Ok. Like I said, if they want to be a separate nation, then be a seperate nation, with all that entails. Some (perhaps even the majority) people in foreign countries wait months and years waiting for a visa for entry. If the Iroquis tribe wants to be a nation, they can't expect to be treated any differently than the other nations who don't have formalized relations or treaties with the UK.

There's an old saying that's probably appropriate here - be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

25 posted on 07/14/2010 10:04:39 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand
I get your point as this tribal visa business is part of the recent Balkanization effort on the part of the left but I think the Iroquois have had formalized relations and treaties with the UK long before the US ever did, before the French and Indian war. Of course, that was before anyone thought of the idea of flashing passports and getting your granny screened for smuggled fingernail clippers or undybombs at an international airport.
26 posted on 07/14/2010 10:20:03 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: Redcloak

Well, there was that story from 2001 about the hijacker Mohammed Atta applying to Key West for his official Conch Republic passport.


27 posted on 07/14/2010 10:22:01 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: rivercat

Then I’d have to agree this is a major FUBAR screw-up by our and the UK governments, unless someone can provide more information.

Thank you.


28 posted on 07/14/2010 10:23:29 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (If McCain is a Conservative, there are no Leftists. Not Teddy K., John K., George S., Russel F...)
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To: piasa
"I get your point as this tribal visa business is part of the recent Balkanization effort on the part of the left but I think the Iroquois have had formalized relations and treaties with the UK long before the US ever did, before the French and Indian war."

They very well may have. And, the British government had formalized relations and treaties with Turkey (then the Ottoman Empire) LONG before America was even a British Colony. But, if you want to travel to the UK from Turkey and Turkey to the UK, guess what you need? That's right - a visa.

Another thing that really chaps my behind is this sentence from the article...

"The Iroquois' plight has reached the U.S. House of Representatives floor, where Rep. Dan Maffei (D-N.Y.) spoke on behalf of the players Wednesday.

“These Iroquois, or Haudenosaunee, were the inventors of the game of lacrosse," Maffei said. "It would be an international embarrassment if they’re not allowed to compete.”

I don't care if they all had a hand in curing cancer, what the heck is an US Congressman addressing their "plight" in the well of the House floor, if they wish to be a separate nation traveling on non-US passports?

Again, if they want to be a separate country, then be a separate country. If they want to enjoy the benefits and privileges of being a US citizen, then they darn sure better be happy to travel on a US passport.

They can't have it both ways. Either they're American, or they aren't. If they aren't. It's really none of our damn business what the UK does to them, or for them.

29 posted on 07/14/2010 10:36:36 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand
I don't care if they all had a hand in curing cancer, what the heck is an US Congressman addressing their "plight" in the well of the House floor, if they wish to be a separate nation traveling on non-US passports?

That is pretty funny...

30 posted on 07/14/2010 10:40:28 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: OldDeckHand

I wonder if the separate nation passport idea arose at the same time as the gambling and cigarette tax exemptions became big money?


31 posted on 07/14/2010 10:42:26 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: piasa
"I wonder if the separate nation passport idea arose at the same time as the gambling and cigarette tax exemptions became big money?"

That's a good question. I don't know.

32 posted on 07/14/2010 10:44:50 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: rivercat; neverdem; Behind Liberal Lines; The Mayor

More on the subject....

Brits say No to Native Americans

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/07/15/brits-say-no-to-american-indians/


33 posted on 07/15/2010 7:09:12 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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