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Obama Moves away from 'Freedom of Religion' toward 'Freedom of Worship'?
Catholic Online ^ | June 18, 2010 | Randy Sly

Posted on 07/18/2010 5:21:46 PM PDT by upchuck

Since the initially strong language on religious freedom used in President Obama's Cairo speech, presidential references to religious freedom have become rare, often replaced, at most, with references to freedom of worship. A purposeful change in language could mean a much narrower view of the right to religious freedom. As Catholics, this is an area where we must remain vigilant. These small changes can be used to change our perception of rights and freedoms.

The change in language was barely noticeable to the average citizen but political observers are raising red flags at the use of a new term "freedom of worship" by President Obama and Secretary Clinton as a replacement for the term freedom of religion. This shift happened between the President's speech in Cairo where he showcased America's freedom of religion and his appearance in November at a memorial for the victims of Fort Hood, where he specifically used the term "freedom of worship." From that point on, it has become the term of choice for the president and Clinton.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: freedomofreligion; freedomofworship; july; moralabsolutes

1 posted on 07/18/2010 5:21:49 PM PDT by upchuck
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To: NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation; Pyro7480

Catholic ping.


2 posted on 07/18/2010 5:23:13 PM PDT by upchuck (Our margin of victory this November MUST BE greater than their margin of fraud.)
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To: upchuck

Most religions will be outlawed — but we will all be free to worship Allah.


3 posted on 07/18/2010 5:24:34 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: upchuck

I’ll bet he means freedom to worship him .


4 posted on 07/18/2010 5:25:52 PM PDT by deputytess (Men of the West .....stand and FIGHT!)
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To: deputytess
I’ll bet he means freedom to worship him

Yeah. It's a long line and he's at the front.

5 posted on 07/18/2010 5:29:20 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Argue from the Constitution: Initialpoints.net)
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To: upchuck

Marxist goal....change the language—it all depends what the meaning of is, it.... Ya, right, Bill!

This part explains why it is important and why Twain and Classical literature is forbidden in public schools......

It is absolutely true!!!!!

“Mark Twain used to say, “The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter - it’s the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning.”

As Catholics, this is an area where we must remain vigilant. These small changes can be used to change our perception of rights and freedoms. In retrosprect, the past hundred years gives us a number of significant issues in which this has already happened to one degree or another. Abortion, contraception, marriage, the family, and gender have all been re-engineered to fashion a new worldview.

What may seem an innocent shift in language now could possibly end up as a “tipping point” for our religious freedom. Make no mistake; this is the goal and desire of the many inside and outside our current administration.”


6 posted on 07/18/2010 5:30:51 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: upchuck

I would really like to dismiss this as mere semantics. After all how much difference is there between “Freedom of Religion” and “Freedom of Worship”? The problem of course is that if was not an ulterior there would be no point in changing a phrase that has had deep meaning to Americans for 223 years.


7 posted on 07/18/2010 5:31:09 PM PDT by Artemis Webb (DeMint 2012)
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To: upchuck

“freedom of religion” implies you have a choice of which religion


8 posted on 07/18/2010 5:35:36 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: savagesusie

Blur the lines.

Then fade out our faith in God.

For the good of all men. /sarc


9 posted on 07/18/2010 5:35:58 PM PDT by Global2010
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To: Artemis Webb

FYI Hitler allowed worship, but did not allow religion.


10 posted on 07/18/2010 5:39:30 PM PDT by justsaynomore (The Hermanator - www.hermancain.com)
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To: justsaynomore
What are you talking about?

Of course Hitler allowed religion.

11 posted on 07/18/2010 5:47:12 PM PDT by Salman
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To: upchuck

I agree that Obama is playing some kind of insidious word game, whose true purpose is known only to his radical collective. But that does not mean that it cannot be neutralized.

In this case, since he is being crafty, his own craftiness can be turned against him, with an equally contrived interpretation of his meaning.

’ “Freedom of worship” means that Obama condemns heretical sects of Islam, like the Shiite faith, and Sufi mysticism. This makes sense, because Obama was of the Sunni religion.’

Imagine how that would make Robert Gibbs squirm.


12 posted on 07/18/2010 5:48:44 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Worship confines religion to the church/temple etc.

Permitting freedom to worship would only allow you to attend the services of your choice.

It would ban public display of religious faith, public expression of religious faith, or conscience exemptions wrt to faith.

Basically, putting your religion in the closet.


13 posted on 07/18/2010 5:52:35 PM PDT by BenKenobi (We cannot do everything at once, but we can do something at once. -Silent Cal)
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To: upchuck; NYer

Not just Catholics but all Christians need to be concerned about this. If you can worship as you chooose, privately in your church, but you can’t say in public, “I believe homosexuality is wrong; this is a tenet of my religion,” then you are (as it were) scr3wed.

Or if you were to say, “My religion teaches that all people are equal before God, and therefore we should treat all people the same, irrespective of their race,” then you are (as it were) scr3wed.


14 posted on 07/18/2010 5:55:41 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("I hate other cultures. Everyone is rude and they never wash or use deodorant."~Anoreth)
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To: savagesusie; Artemis Webb
Absolutely. As for religion, that implies an entire system, including its moral values, open and in the public square; worship is something you can do in the catecombs.
15 posted on 07/18/2010 5:55:49 PM PDT by livius
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To: Salman

Well, he fired all the heads of various churches and installed pro-Nazi men.


16 posted on 07/18/2010 5:59:40 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Tax-chick

I will ping this out tomorrow or tonight.


17 posted on 07/18/2010 6:00:19 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah

This is a very threatening development.


18 posted on 07/18/2010 6:09:43 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("I hate other cultures. Everyone is rude and they never wash or use deodorant."~Anoreth)
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To: little jeremiah
I didn't say Hitler allowed freedom of religion.

He allowed religion.

In that era, Stalin allowed religion a little bit too.

19 posted on 07/18/2010 6:21:00 PM PDT by Salman
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To: ClearCase_guy
" Most religions will be outlawed — but we will all be free to worship Allah. "

Perhaps he is going to set up a image of himself for people to worship, this maybe is what he meant as " Freedom to worship him "


Daniel 3 (King James Version)
Daniel 3

1. Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.

2. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king sent to gather together the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, to come to the dedication of the image which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.

3. Then the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up; and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

4. Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,

5. That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:

6And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.

7. Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.

8. Wherefore at that time certain Chaldeans came near, and accused the Jews.

9. They spake and said to the king Nebuchadnezzar, O king, live for ever.

10. Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:

11. And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth, that he should be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
20 posted on 07/18/2010 6:25:21 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: GeronL

>> “freedom of religion” implies you have a choice of which religion

That is correct. Freedom of worship relates to behavior. Freedom of religion is about freedom of belief, and the right to express that belief openly in public.

The Left is attempting to eliminate the language that protects spiritual belief. This is meant to constrain Christianity.


21 posted on 07/18/2010 6:28:07 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Your Hope has been redistributed. Here's your Change.)
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To: upchuck
He wants to be worshiped. Hitler-Obama Crowd Worship Pictures, Images and Photos
22 posted on 07/18/2010 6:29:07 PM PDT by rbosque (11 year Freeper! Combat Economist.)
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To: upchuck

The Catholic Church must purge itself of any vestige of Liberation Theology.


23 posted on 07/18/2010 6:34:03 PM PDT by FreeDeerHawk
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To: Salman

Not freedom of religion, as I understand it.


24 posted on 07/18/2010 6:40:15 PM PDT by justsaynomore (The Hermanator - www.hermancain.com)
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To: Tax-chick

I’m sure most people in Germany during Hiter’s rise to power did not realize how bad it was going to get, but probably many had an inkling.

I don’t think 0thugga will get that bad because more people are awake, plus a large percentage of Americans are armed. Plus I doubt whether the entire mil. will support him if gets more “transparent” with his agenda.

The administration reallllly wants to shut down the internet.

Too bad so many Rs are neutered socailist-lites themselves.


25 posted on 07/18/2010 6:43:44 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: upchuck

You have a right to worship the One, everything else is racism.


26 posted on 07/18/2010 6:45:49 PM PDT by depressed in 06 (2012, the end of our long national nightmare.)
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To: upchuck

I’m not a catholic, but the author of this piece is exactly correct. Freedom of religion is much bigger than freedom of worship. Freedom of worship is only a tiny subset of Freedom of religion. For example, freedom of worship does not include freedom to evangelize; Freedom of religion does.


27 posted on 07/18/2010 7:22:47 PM PDT by Guyin4Os (A messianic ger-tsedek)
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To: upchuck; BenKenobi; Tax-chick; livius; Gene Eric; Guyin4Os
In his 1941 State of the Union address, Franklin Roosevelt enumerated the so-called "Four Freedoms" (later memorialized by Norman Rockwell in those hugely popular paintings):

"In the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.

"The first is freedom of speech and expression -- everywhere in the world.

"The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way -- everywhere in the world.

"The third is freedom from want -- which, translated into universal terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants -- everywhere in the world.

"The fourth is freedom from fear -- which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor—anywhere in the world..."

Now, it could be that Mordred is simply paying homage to his socialist-globalist predecessor. However, as posters have pointed out, that's not the way to bet.

28 posted on 07/18/2010 7:52:51 PM PDT by Tenniel2 (Clarkson, Hammond, and May: the last three sane men in the British Isles.)
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To: upchuck

Obama hates institutions which make America strong. Keep that in mind when you consider this subtle change. Religion is an institution. Worship is a simple act.


29 posted on 07/18/2010 7:58:48 PM PDT by magellan
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To: savagesusie

True, true! For a good example of this, please pay attention to the terms being used to frame the Arizona debate. You’ll see a lot of people talking about “migration” rather than “immigration.” The difference between “religion” and “worship” could turn out to be significant.


30 posted on 07/18/2010 8:17:18 PM PDT by D_Idaho ("For we wrestle not against flesh and blood...")
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To: D_Idaho

The marxists always change the words—twist the meaning and thinking

....lot of times when they talk about illegal immigration...they leave off the word illegal intentionally in debates. They don’t allow “illegal alien” term.

Like the war—they don’t allow the words “Islamic terror” to be put together, Or when the Muslim youths are rioting and burning cars in France—Fox News quit saying Muslim Youths although it was the fact. Journalism no longer uses the standards for putting objective truth in the newspapers...there is no standard...all brainwashing and lies to shape what people think.

Marxists....commies....have to change the words to win the sympathy of the people...and win the debates which they always LOSE when people know what they are talking about. All about the Big Lie.


31 posted on 07/18/2010 9:36:31 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: Gene Eric
That is correct. Freedom of worship relates to behavior. Freedom of religion is about freedom of belief, and the right to express that belief openly in public.

While I prefer the term "freedom of religion" over "freedom of worship", they both pale in comparision to what Gustavus Adolphus won at Breitenfeld in 1632, "freedom of conscience"...

the infowarrior

32 posted on 07/18/2010 9:48:08 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: deputytess
I’ll bet he means freedom to worship him .

Or he who he serves....
33 posted on 07/18/2010 9:55:48 PM PDT by JSteff (((It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.)))
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To: upchuck
We are in serious trouble here folks, hope that you recognize the fact.
34 posted on 07/18/2010 10:49:01 PM PDT by Irish Eyes
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To: upchuck
I think this is an attempt to open the door to public displays of Salah/Salat five times a day, regardless of where and when. Christianity and Judaism (to my knowledge per the latter) doesn't have these kinds of public dictates as Islam does....all the while still banning religioussymbols, which would affect the only public access that Christianity and Judaism have, since again, public acts are not dictated. I'll go a step further and say that the word "dictated" will be very important in the debates to come if this thing catches on and is implemented as standard fare.

It's another step towards domination, and submission to Islam, and it doesn't help that a lot of our fellow citizens are asleep at the wheel...

35 posted on 07/18/2010 11:15:08 PM PDT by csense
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To: upchuck

Meaning that religion will be confined to the worship service, but freedom of conscience in other areas, such as distributing contraceptives or participating in abortions, will not be protected by the First Amendment.

0bama’s administration is getting guidance ftom Kagan on this.


36 posted on 07/18/2010 11:51:02 PM PDT by happygrl (Continuing to predict that 0bama will resign)
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To: savagesusie

Conservatives almost always lose the language war. We had a good run with turning ‘liberal’ into a bad word for about 10 years, but that’s faded bigtime now.

We lost entirely with:

Amnesty = Immigration Reform
Global Warming = Climate Change
Socialized Medicine = Health Care Reform

And those are just recent ones off the top of my head that are very severe.


37 posted on 07/19/2010 12:08:05 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: csense

That’s absolutely it. This is all about protecting rituals which is the most important in islam vs morality based society.

I’m an agnostic and it’s plain as day.


38 posted on 07/19/2010 12:09:37 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...
As Catholics, this is an area where we must remain vigilant. These small changes can be used to change our perception of rights and freedoms.

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


39 posted on 07/19/2010 3:46:02 AM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: csense

Astute forward thinking insight. I just hope its wrong, but if he gets corrupt individuals like Kagan on the court it does not look good at all.


40 posted on 07/19/2010 4:30:30 AM PDT by valkyry1
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To: Tolsti2

The problem is that the MSM has so much power and does form the debate and controls what the masses think. It is communist controlled and the people have been brainwashed....our schools were completely subverted
in the 50’s (actually before) and we have been reaping the damage ever since.


41 posted on 07/19/2010 10:07:44 AM PDT by savagesusie
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To: Tolsti2
Amnesty = Immigration Reform
Global Warming = Climate Change
Socialized Medicine = Health Care Reform

And of course there is also "Disagreement = Racism." This is the one which is going to really kill effective opposition to liberal/progressive advancement. The Right, and generally all who are not on the Left, have failed miserably to respond to the instant accusation of racism for any public or private hesitation or resistance to liberal ideas or policies. Many now argue openly that only white people can be racists, and the right lets this go without any objection. There are no discussions of the impossibility of this regarding the meaning of the word. There are no counters of evidence. It just goes out there and infects the minds of the simple. It seems to me that the Right is not only allowing the Left to constantly define the rules of the debate, but is not even really participating at all.

42 posted on 07/19/2010 5:15:17 PM PDT by cothrige
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To: cothrige

Timely post, makes me smile even more about the Briebart NAACP thing today.

That guy’s truly a national hero.


43 posted on 07/19/2010 5:18:30 PM PDT by Tolsti2
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