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Obama lobs jobs grenade
NY Post ^ | July 20, 2010 | S.A. Miller

Posted on 07/20/2010 3:00:44 AM PDT by Scanian

WASHINGTON -- President Obama and congressional Republicans went to war yesterday over extending unemployment benefits for millions of out-of-work Americans.

"It's time to stop holding workers laid off in this recession hostage to Washington politics," Obama said. "It's time to do what's right, not for the next election, but for the middle class."

Obama's hot rhetoric in the Rose Garden sought to divert voters' anger over the sputtering economy to Senate Republicans, who don't want the government to borrow $34 billion for another extension of benefits.

Republicans support extending jobless benefits only if the bill is paid for, which goes hand in hand with their argument that runaway government debt is undermining an economic recovery.

The GOP says that unused stimulus money could be used to fund the benefits extension or that spending could be cut so the deficit won't be increased. Some also believe the lengthy period of benefits can discourage people from job hunting.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: deficits; hostage; mentalillness; munchhausenbyproxy; narcissistinchief; nationaldebt; republicans; sociopath; stimulusmoney; workers
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1 posted on 07/20/2010 3:00:47 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: Scanian
Graphs from Arthur Laffer on why increasing unemployment benefits has a negative effect:

And lest we forget who the real progenitors of this economic downturn are:


2 posted on 07/20/2010 3:09:12 AM PDT by rlmorel (We are traveling "The Road to Serfdom".)
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To: rlmorel

Look at that chart. Who was running things in both congress and president after 9/11? Hmmmm.. They did until 06, and then there’s a drop. They have a lot of nerve to complain about extending this now and all it does is make them look bad. Poor, poor politics.


3 posted on 07/20/2010 3:14:34 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Scanian
Some also believe the lengthy period of benefits can discourage people from job hunting.

Although this is quite true in normal times of 5% unemployment, it's also irrelevent when tens of millions of jobs have been lost, real unemployment is aournd 20% and there are 5 or more applicants for every job. Plus, it's political suicide. Telling the millions of people who have lost their jobs and can't find anything even at much lower wages that it's there fault is a great way for Pubs to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory next November. Leave it to the stupid party to find a way to screw it up.

4 posted on 07/20/2010 3:14:37 AM PDT by Hugin (Remember the first rule of gunfighting...have a gun..-- Col. Jeff Cooper)
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To: Scanian

The problem is not “benefits” but an Anti-American, Anti-Capitalist, Marxist Administration.

He is intentionally destroying the nation. Economically, Morally and Militarily.

We have no pattern for this delima.


5 posted on 07/20/2010 3:18:15 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
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To: Hugin
Leave it to the stupid party to find a way to screw it up.

Oh, so we forget principals when an election is coming?

6 posted on 07/20/2010 3:22:06 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: Scanian

All the Stupid ass Republicans need to do is trot out Obumbos statement last year where he said EXACTLY what the Republicans are saying Now,That Extending Unemployment Benefits NEED to be paid for!What is wrong with these Incompetent Republicans? Feinstein from California another Left wing loon said that pretty soon no One is going to go back to work if we keep extending these Benefits .
If we only had a Leader who Had a Mouth and some Balls.
The Republicans are the Biggest Loosers I have ever seen,How can anyone vote for these Buffoons when this is handed to them on a silver Platter and they dont have a Clue.


7 posted on 07/20/2010 3:22:57 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: Tolsti2

The drop begins in ‘04.


8 posted on 07/20/2010 3:26:58 AM PDT by BelegStrongbow (St. Joseph, patron of fathers, pray for us!)
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To: An.American.Expatriate

What principle would that be? Of all the trillions of wasteful, politically directed government fraud and abuse, the one thing your going to fight to cut is some basic survial for people who have worked and paid taxes for decades?

I’m all for taking the money from elsewhere, but don’t tell everyone who has lost a job that they could find one if they only were looking harder. It’s a lie.


9 posted on 07/20/2010 3:29:11 AM PDT by Hugin (Remember the first rule of gunfighting...have a gun..-- Col. Jeff Cooper)
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To: Hugin
The Republicans are all for extending unemployment benefits. They are simply asking that it be paid for, and not just added to the national debt. Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the usual criminals want to take this huge bill for extending unemployment (34 Thousand Million Dollars - also known as 34 Billion) and add it to the debt.

If we don't stop piling onto the national debt at the drop of a feather, very, very soon (quicker than most people even realize), the foundations of our nation can and will crumble.

This is no exaggeration.

10 posted on 07/20/2010 3:37:16 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Texas Fossil
...The problem is not “benefits” but an Anti-American, Anti-Capitalist, Marxist Administration

WAKE UP AMERICA




11 posted on 07/20/2010 3:39:48 AM PDT by BobP (The piss-stream media - Never to be watched again in my house)
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To: SkyPilot

As I said, I’m all for that. It was making the economic argument that I quoted in my fist comment that I take issue with. It comes off as smug elitism at a time when people are mad as hell about the crooked scams the elites are pulling on us daily.


12 posted on 07/20/2010 3:43:53 AM PDT by Hugin (Remember the first rule of gunfighting...have a gun..-- Col. Jeff Cooper)
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To: Tolsti2

>>They have a lot of nerve to complain about extending this now and all it does is make them look bad.<<

Did you read the article? The GOP wants this to be paid for before they extend it.

Let me ask you, why should I take food out of my kids mouths so someone can keep looking for the perfect job? You want to take this past 99 weeks? Like two years? Or three?

My nephew works 2 jobs to support his kids. I’ve done the same.


13 posted on 07/20/2010 3:49:15 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: Hugin

>>Telling the millions of people who have lost their jobs and can’t find anything even at much lower wages that it’s there fault is a great way for Pubs to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory next November. <<

How long should we be taking care of them? What is your limit? Two years? Three years? Five?


14 posted on 07/20/2010 3:51:16 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

What they’re doing now doesn’t take it past 99 weeks. This only affects those getting over 26 weeks. If you’ve used the 99, it’s still over.

I don’t know why I’ve had to correct dozens of people on this on here, but people need to realize that this is only 26-99 weeks.


15 posted on 07/20/2010 3:58:24 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: netmilsmom

Now that you know the facts that it’s not over 99 weeks, are you more comfortable with it?


16 posted on 07/20/2010 3:59:11 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Scanian

I believe it was in February 09 that the Democratic Congress passed the “pay-go” bill that was supposed to require offsetting spending cuts for any spending increase. It was a weak attempt to show the public they were concerned about the deficit. The Pubbies are only holding them to their own bill now.


17 posted on 07/20/2010 3:59:18 AM PDT by USNA74
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To: USNA74

That’s why I hold both parties to the fire. This is, unfortuntely, basically mandatory now. This truly is the ‘worst economy since the depression’ even though they cried wolf about that all through Bush’s term.

It’s really awful that the dems aren’t going to use the stimulus funds, but the GOP comes across as only slamming the ones that are suffering.


18 posted on 07/20/2010 4:04:23 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2

>>I don’t know why I’ve had to correct dozens of people on this on here, but people need to realize that this is only 26-99 weeks.<<

Because there is no stopping it. What guarantee do you have from a government that wants ANOTHER stimulus package after stating that the first one is the end all be all, that it won’t be extended again?

So the question is, how long should be extend it? How about 5000 weeks?

Unemployment funds come out of business taxes. Unemployment taxes are assessed on number of full time employees times a rate based on the business types turnover.

In some states and for some jobs the tax rate is over $1000 per month. And if we extend more unemployment benefits, the rates will go higher yet.

Businesses will think long and hard before they hire anyone when the next new hire costs them that kind of coin.


19 posted on 07/20/2010 4:04:37 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: Tolsti2

>>Now that you know the facts that it’s not over 99 weeks, are you more comfortable with it?<<

Now that you know that this hinders the ability for business to hire more people, are you?

Are you comfortable with taking the food from my kids mouths to give to others?


20 posted on 07/20/2010 4:07:10 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

Getting a tier 5 to go past 99 weeks is not likely to happen. Paying for tier 4 which is up to 99 is all that this does. It’s a stupid way of doing it, but if the economy suddenly turns around then they can just defund it easily. Playing games when the economy isn’t turning around is cruel and stupid politically.

As that chart shows, recessions end and the benefits decline. That’s how it always is. The Republicans extended it last time until 04 or so, which was when things got better after 9/11. That is certainly prudent to do here as well.


21 posted on 07/20/2010 4:07:37 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2

>>Getting a tier 5 to go past 99 weeks is not likely to happen.<<

Right.

So where is the money coming from to finance this?


22 posted on 07/20/2010 4:09:30 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

I’m not a libertarian so I am not against helping people laid off avoid having to go homeless when between jobs. 26 weeks is usually fine for decent economic times. You need to remember, you actually need to WORK to get these benefits and it scales to pay and caps very low.

I assume you’re financially very secure and I highly doubt your kids will be going hungry because of a $33b charge out of a $1300b yearly budget. This stuff is such small potatoes compared to obamacare or even the Bush medicare prescription deal it isn’t funny.


23 posted on 07/20/2010 4:10:32 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: netmilsmom

The money should come from the unused stimulus. The dems aren’t going to allow that, and it’s going to end up being added as debt. I’d prefer it not be that way, but if they do this you’ll have some 5m+ unemployed people out there completely cut off and looking for blood. If they don’t do it literally, they’ll do it politically against whoever they think voted against it. This may well tip the elections to the dems unless the GOP stops this nonsense.


24 posted on 07/20/2010 4:12:33 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Scanian

Our side still does a piss poor job at explaining and not coming off sounding like we’re callous...I watched the MSM 6:30 news last night and nearly choked...it’s been a while since I watched. The sound bytes are ridiculous. We have to do a much better job or we’ll be the same republicans who want to starve the old people and babies.


25 posted on 07/20/2010 4:12:48 AM PDT by CincyRichieRich (Keep your head up and keep moving forward!)
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To: CincyRichieRich

Wanna know why NV’s leaning towards Reid now? Wanna know why in the last couple weeks the polls have suddenly shifted to the dems, especially in the last week? This is it. People out there are raving pissed or confused as hell over the fact that the GOP is taking a hardline stand against this at this time. The stupidity is staggering.


26 posted on 07/20/2010 4:15:28 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2

>>I’m not a libertarian so I am not against helping people laid off avoid having to go homeless when between jobs.<<

Fantastic! Then do it. However, where is it written that you have a right to take MY money? Where is forced charity ever correct? That’s redistribution of wealth.

>>I assume you’re financially very secure and I highly doubt your kids will be going hungry because of a $33b charge out of a $1300b yearly budget.<<

You know nothing about me. You have no clue what we have given up to make it. How we are out stoop picking and canning, how we live without cable, without a land line and with a tracphone for emergencies. Ten year old cars that need to be fixed and using a bike when we run short each week. Even if we made a million a year, where is your right to take it from me?

So again, how do we finance this?


27 posted on 07/20/2010 4:16:03 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

Alright, imagine losing whatever income you have and not being able to find a job for a year due, in large part, of the government. Then what? Give up and die? That’s the choice this is giving a lot of people right now. One that have been good workers for years and decades and got slammed.

I’ll give you a preview too. This stuff now will run out right before the elections. The GOP has fallen into a HUGE trap by fighting over it. In November people, again, that are well under 99 weeks will be facing a cutoff. The reps are being played like a fiddle now and will face either voting no again and getting demolished in the election or voting yes and suffering a bit too for being hypocrites.

That’s what your attitude has done politically.


28 posted on 07/20/2010 4:21:34 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2

The question is, why do you think that you have a right to redistribute my money?


29 posted on 07/20/2010 4:23:13 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

Ok, hope you never have taken any government assistance or used any services paid for by taxes. Oh, and refuse SS and medicare when you get to that age as well.

You obviously aren’t reading what I’m saying. This is a tiny TINY bit of expense to throw away your political advantage in an election year for.

I don’t quite understand hardcore libertarians. I’m for small and minimal government with basic safety nets. That’s all this is, when you think about it. And again, the people receiving this at least had to work to pay into it as well. So it’s stealing from them too, it’s not just about you.


30 posted on 07/20/2010 4:26:32 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2
Look at that chart.

The problem is only a handful of people here in FR will ever see that chart and make the connection. The laimstream media, including Fox, will never broadcast it to the masses.....

31 posted on 07/20/2010 4:31:16 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Stop the insanity - Flush Congress!)
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To: Tolsti2

The question still remains.
What right do you have to take my income to redistribute to others?

That’s what you’re doing. Take out the emotion and personalization. Why do you think the government can take what I earn and give it to someone else?

I’m not a hardcore libertarian. However, I don’t care for stealing. And every drop in the bucket, every little bit, just fills that bucket.

You’re not giving the American people credit. You’re looking at a pre-Tea Party electorate. Believe the polls to your hearts content. People are smarter than you are giving them credit for.


32 posted on 07/20/2010 4:34:42 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

Smarter, that’s why we have dem congress and hussein right?

Do you consider military taxes as theft? The way you’re sounding, you’d be a hypocrite to support any government spending at all. There’s a line, and we’re way past it on spending, but this isn’t the place to target.


33 posted on 07/20/2010 4:37:03 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Hugin

The Extended benifits are nothing but wellfare! The first several weeks are paid for by the insurance - everything else is a handout from the general funds!

And no, thats not the only thing I would cut. But you are calling for a hypocritical attitude - only for the sake of getting someone elected. We have enough RINOs as it is.


34 posted on 07/20/2010 4:38:13 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: Scanian

“He who doesn’t work, neither shall he eat”


35 posted on 07/20/2010 4:38:40 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... The winds of war are freshening)
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To: Tolsti2

The question still remains.
What right do you have to take my income to redistribute to others?

Take the personalization out of it. This is the only question.


36 posted on 07/20/2010 4:39:44 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: An.American.Expatriate

Lets talk about getting rid of social security. That’s real welfare that’s about 20 times bigger per year than unemployment is. The Republicans passed these extensions for a long time after 9/11 and nobody really complained then. Didn’t hear all that much about the spending until lately, and they the dolts pick this to really stand against. Lunacy.


37 posted on 07/20/2010 4:40:40 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: netmilsmom

Social contract.


38 posted on 07/20/2010 4:41:00 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: bert

Leninism.


39 posted on 07/20/2010 4:41:25 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Hugin

This ain’t about elections, its about doing what’s right for the taxpayer. Unemployment was never intended to be welfare. We need to go back to capitalism not away from it.

Pray for America


40 posted on 07/20/2010 4:41:31 AM PDT by bray (Did Rush say Absolute Failure?)
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To: bert

And by that, I mean your quote is one of the big tenets of Leninism.


41 posted on 07/20/2010 4:41:54 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2

>>Social contract.<<

Where is that “Social Contract”? Can you reference it?

Someone is showing true colors here.


42 posted on 07/20/2010 4:42:30 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: bray

Throwing the elections to the dems over something this mundane and stuff, which has truly produced a media storm if you look off FR, is not in the long term interest of the taxpayers either I would think.


43 posted on 07/20/2010 4:43:04 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2
This truly is the ‘worst economy since the depression’ even though they cried wolf about that all through Bush’s term.

The answer to the "unemployment" problem is to DownSize DC! Starting with a firing at 1600 Penn. Ave., and then eliminating entire departments (Education, EPA, etc) in Washington who contribute nothing and are a burden on the nation.

44 posted on 07/20/2010 4:45:43 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
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To: netmilsmom

I guess you don’t know what the term means if you think it has anything to do with marxism. In my sophmore level business law class, they covered it a lot. It’s the same reason the government taxes us for the mlitary, which you seemed to not complain about. I don’t either.

I’d go look up the term, the wikipedia entry on it is fairly good. Being against social contract theory basically means you’re against the US constitution as it was one of the earliest forms of it after the French revolution.


45 posted on 07/20/2010 4:46:28 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Texas Fossil

I’d like to see farming subsidies die off. That stuff has been a burden on taxpayers for decades. Also all the ethenol madness which is paying farmers to grow unprofitable crops. The EPA should be cut by 90% in both manpower and political power, NEA, and all that stuff. There’s really serious waste out there, even in DHS now. I wish we’d see some fighting against these huge costs.


46 posted on 07/20/2010 4:48:23 AM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2

>>I guess you don’t know what the term means if you think it has anything to do with marxism<<

Hmmmmm, did I say Marxism?

Social contract IS a theory. It is applied as seen fit in a given situation.
And is used by libs, a lot.

So I’m just going to let your posts stand on their own. Gotta make Dad his PB&J for lunch. Bye!


47 posted on 07/20/2010 4:51:39 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: Tolsti2

I recall the quote was from Captain John Smith at Jamestown.

When I Binged, I learned it is Biblical.....Thessalonians.

I think your Lenin reference is “to each according to his needs, from each according to his ability”


48 posted on 07/20/2010 4:52:07 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... The winds of war are freshening)
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To: Tolsti2

No, lets talk about unfunded madnates!

Unemployment, SS etc ... at least the worker is contributing to these (whether that is right / proper is another argument!). The extended benefits are unfunded and taken directly from the general fund.

YOU said that the dems are playing the pubbies and your right! How can those cold hearted bastards refuse to continue to hand out money?

Anything over 26 weeks is robbing me to pay someone else - you want it longer - change the law and raise the rates - just stop the stealing.

And before you start with you DoD arguments - that is a responsiblility specifically mentioned in the constitution - what your advocating is not.


49 posted on 07/20/2010 4:52:12 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: SkyPilot

Yes, its all going to come crashing down at once.


50 posted on 07/20/2010 4:53:02 AM PDT by waxer1 ( "The Bible is the rock on which our republic rests." -Andrew Jackson)
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