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What's So Bad about the JournoList?
Real Clear Politics - Horse Race Blog ^ | 7/23/2010 | Jay Cost

Posted on 07/23/2010 12:38:29 PM PDT by Smogger

Tucker Carlson has this to say about the title question:

We're not contesting the right of anyone, journalist or not, to have political opinions. (I, for one, have made a pretty good living expressing mine.) What we object to is partisanship, which is by its nature dishonest, a species of intellectual corruption. Again and again, we discovered members of Journolist working to coordinate talking points on behalf of Democratic politicians, principally Barack Obama. That is not journalism, and those who engage in it are not journalists. They should stop pretending to be. The news organizations they work for should stop pretending, too.

I disagree with part of this. Partisanship is not "by its nature dishonest, a species of intellectual corruption." Partisanship for the sake of partisanship is indeed corrupt - e.g. Tammany-style patronage politics - but partisanship that comes about because of big, important differences on issues that matter is not. American democracy is unthinkable without the two political parties, so partisanship can't be all bad.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: journolist
"JournoList looks to me to be yet another mile-marker on this country's return to a partisan press. This does not upset me very much at all. I think American democracy is unthinkable without the political parties, so I do not think that a partisan press is all that bad. And it might finally stop journalists and academics from acquiring the inherently political authority that comes with monikers like "objective news" or "social science" when they are in fact promoting subjective values. That would be a good thing."

I love Jay Cost.

1 posted on 07/23/2010 12:38:38 PM PDT by Smogger
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To: Smogger

It is the pretense of impartiality the Lefty media portrays that is the problem.

No one cares that Rachel Maddow espouses leftist view points. She is not pretending to be objective. It’s when Tom Brokaw, Charles Gibson, Katie Couric and the writers for the NY Times pretend to be impartial - that’s where the damage is done.


2 posted on 07/23/2010 12:42:33 PM PDT by Personal Responsibility (The problem isn't that 1% of muslims are terrorists. The problem is 99% of terrorists are muslim)
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To: Smogger
In a nutshell, partisanship, when overt and in the open is healthy. When it is in private, in collusion with others it becomes subversion and deceit, period. The exercises these so called objective watchdogs of the First Amendment conducted were even more eggregious than that of the tyrant which now occupies the White House - much more.

In a perfect French Revolution sort of world, journalists would be the first to get a really close haircut, followed by politicians and then lawyers and judges.

3 posted on 07/23/2010 12:42:49 PM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Smogger

>>>What’s So Bad about the JournoList?

It’s a bunch of holier than thou elitists putting on a public face of objectivity and non-partisanship on one hand while the other hand was anything but objective and non-partisan. That’s what’s so bad about the JournoList.


4 posted on 07/23/2010 12:46:49 PM PDT by Keith in Iowa
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To: Smogger

A conspiracy to deliberately spread lies.

What could be wrong?


5 posted on 07/23/2010 12:48:49 PM PDT by Carley (For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.)
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To: Carley

All you have to do is listen to the Montages Rush put on. The Journolists Parrot the DNC.


6 posted on 07/23/2010 12:53:38 PM PDT by screaminsunshine (m)
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To: Smogger
Its all fine as long as JournoListers like Jeffrey Toobin appear on CNN as their "Legal Editor" wearing his "I'm a Democrat" t-shirt.

This would have been helpful during his adamant defense of Clinton during impeachment.

7 posted on 07/23/2010 12:59:01 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Smogger

There’s nothing wrong with Journolist as long as MSM admits it’s pure propaganda and stops trying to pass itself off as objective journalism.


8 posted on 07/23/2010 1:03:07 PM PDT by bwc2221
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To: Smogger
I agree with most of the other posters. Partisanship in itself isn't bad - its good to have opinions and convictions.
What is evil is the presentation of what is ostensibly 'unbiased news', by the networks and newspapers, when in reality it is the presentation of propaganda seen through the prism of a leftist viewpoint.
For too long these 'gate-keepers' have skewed what is considered 'newsworthy'. They have covered up, or chosen not to report, on anything that soils a leftist politician or program. They ignore large pro-life marches, and magnify smaller leftist demonstrations (often providing air time to handfuls of leftist agitators). They ignore the government unions stranglehold on our economic recovery (i.e., there will be no recovery if government pension plans, that the government gave themselves, is not addressed. Nary a word comes out of our news 'guardians' on this minor subject). They go on crusades to attack any Republican, or conservative, who stumbles. Or if they don't stumble they are more than happy to make things up (e.g., the attacks on Sarah Palin; and on George Bush).

That's the heinous part of the news media. They fed lies to the public by presenting themselves as journalists, and not propagandists.

9 posted on 07/23/2010 1:05:36 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: All

bump


10 posted on 07/23/2010 1:10:46 PM PDT by Maverick68
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To: Smogger

When they got caught they just went and started a new list:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/07/meet-the-new-journolist-smaller-than-the-old-journolist/60159/


11 posted on 07/23/2010 1:15:25 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: Carley

Its a conspiracy by liberal journalists to kill your first amendment rights. Thats what.


12 posted on 07/23/2010 1:17:04 PM PDT by ully2 (ully)
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To: Carley
Another practical problem with partisans masquerading as objective observers is the modern political process itself. Like debates. We get committed leftists like Gwen Ifill and Jim Lauer etc., ‘moderating’ debates when they are clearly on the side of one of the contestants.
13 posted on 07/23/2010 1:19:19 PM PDT by Old North State (Don't blame me, I voted for Pedro)
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To: Smogger
If you sell me a horse and call it a horse, you're an honest man.

If you sell me a cat and call it a horse, you're a fraud and I'm an idiot.

I just object to these hacks calling themselves journalists and their implied assumptions about me.

14 posted on 07/23/2010 1:21:13 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Gaffer
In a nutshell, partisanship, when overt and in the open is healthy. When it is in private, in collusion with others it becomes subversion and deceit, period.

That!

15 posted on 07/23/2010 1:22:44 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: Gaffer

Are you saying that in a real Perfect world, all these people would be executed? Sentenced to death? Why?


16 posted on 07/23/2010 1:23:44 PM PDT by worst-case scenario (Striving to reach the light)
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To: Smogger
I disagree with part of this. Partisanship is not "by its nature dishonest, a species of intellectual corruption."

He has taken Tucker out of context. Clearly Tucker was talking about people who were purporting to engage in journalism.

Putting Tucker back in context: Partisanship, while cloaking oneself in the mantle of unbiased journalism, is by its nature dishonest, a species of intellectual corruption.

17 posted on 07/23/2010 1:25:31 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: vox_freedom

Saw your homepage...good stuff. Also saw the Benelli....I’m a Mossberg man myself, mainly because of price. Have you looked at the Knoxx shock absorber stocks? They drop the recoil a pantload! I’ve got at least 5 shotguns with them.....great kickback reducer... you just gotta make sure your trigger guard has about an inch’s worth room in it when the recoil is absorbed...


18 posted on 07/23/2010 1:27:52 PM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Smogger
so I do not think that a partisan press is all that bad.

A openly partisan press is not necessarily objectionable. What is highly objectionable is a partisan press passing themselves off as unbiased. Thus, I do not "love Jay Cost".

19 posted on 07/23/2010 1:28:24 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: Smogger; All
Here's a link to the current thread on JournoList members and their news organizations. If you post to that thread, you will be pinged when the list is significantly updated.
20 posted on 07/23/2010 1:28:38 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: worst-case scenario

Intellectual subversion on a wholesale scale is no worse than planting explosives in a crowded train or building. Of course I am!


21 posted on 07/23/2010 1:29:03 PM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Gaffer

Because there an no good journalists, politicians, lawyers, and judges, right?

Ya might want to take a look at what Stalin did to secure power. You’d have fit right in.


22 posted on 07/23/2010 1:32:50 PM PDT by piytar (Another day in obama's "America." Another day in the march to fascism...)
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To: Gaffer

"If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."

~ William T. Sherman ~

23 posted on 07/23/2010 1:35:32 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Smogger
I call them Journolefts. Two reasons: they have left real journalism and they are leftist in ideology.
24 posted on 07/23/2010 1:35:37 PM PDT by fish hawk
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To: piytar
Ya might want to take a look at what Stalin did to secure power. You’d have fit right in.

Can't happen. Obama has beaten everyone to it. Go back to Polyannaville....

25 posted on 07/23/2010 1:36:11 PM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Gaffer

Nope. He’s working on it, but people aren’t being sent to camps en mass. Yet.

And believe me, I live far from Polyannaville. You, however, definitely live in nustoland if you really think all journalists, politicians, lawyers, and judges should be killed. Seriously, that’s INSANE.


26 posted on 07/23/2010 1:48:09 PM PDT by piytar (Another day in obama's "America." Another day in the march to fascism...)
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To: screaminsunshine

Who could forget the word........gravitas.........


27 posted on 07/23/2010 1:54:20 PM PDT by Carley (For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.)
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To: Keith in Iowa

Agree news isn’t about opinions it’s about facts to bad they don’t report them.


28 posted on 07/23/2010 1:56:46 PM PDT by Vaduz
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To: Gaffer

Then you’re a dangerous fanatic. You don’t murder whole groups of people for expressing opinions. It’s un-American.


29 posted on 07/23/2010 1:58:28 PM PDT by worst-case scenario (Striving to reach the light)
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To: Personal Responsibility

Part of the problem is that the Rathers and Courics are allowed to label themselves as “objective”. This word has no meaning, it’s just a marketing term now.


30 posted on 07/23/2010 1:59:57 PM PDT by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: Carley

I remember that one. They are so obvious. I think they get a fax every day from DNC telling them the talking point to hit.


31 posted on 07/23/2010 2:01:45 PM PDT by screaminsunshine (m)
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To: Gaffer

Carlson is right - if they want to hold and even espouse their opinions, fine. Doing under the guise of impartial journalists is fraud.

Substitute the players and industry - say it was brokers and advisors using back-channel listservs, chatting up (or talking down) companies they favor (or don’t), then going out to their clients and pitching them on their favorite investment ideas, regardless of the underlying facts and risks. If found out by the regulators, they’d go to jail and their employers would face sanction and fines.

This should be a much bigger national story than it is but, then again, that would require they report on themselves.


32 posted on 07/23/2010 2:10:41 PM PDT by Be Free (Liberalism is a disease.)
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To: worst-case scenario

And you are a blooming idiot who leaps to generalized Plotanna conclusions.


33 posted on 07/23/2010 2:53:08 PM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Gaffer

What is a “Plotanna conclusion”?

You say you want to execute whole classes of people for the opinions they hold. I conclude you are a dangerous fanatic. That’s not a leap - that’s the *definition* of a fanatic.

Sorry, Gaffer - you’re wrong about this. Luckily, America will never let people with your particular belief be in charge. That’s what the Constitution is all about. We don’t slaughter each other over policy differences. We use the ballot box instead.


34 posted on 07/23/2010 3:12:46 PM PDT by worst-case scenario (Striving to reach the light)
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To: Old North State
Another practical problem with partisans masquerading as objective observers is the modern political process itself. Like debates. We get committed leftists like Gwen Ifill and Jim Lauer etc., ‘moderating’ debates when they are clearly on the side of one of the contestants.

The problem with those like Gwen Ifill and Jim Lehrer, is they are getting paid to spread their liberalism by we the taxpayers.  I don't give a rats rear end about the fools over on CNN or MSNBC, at least my taxpayer money is not funding that garbage.  It's people like Ifill and Lehrer that I have a problem with.

35 posted on 07/23/2010 10:29:47 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (In 2012: The Rookie and The Wookie get booted from the White House.)
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To: Deb
Its all fine as long as JournoListers like Jeffrey Toobin appear on CNN as their "Legal Editor" wearing his "I'm a Democrat" t-shirt.

Yeah. Like a full and open disclosure. He should be required to wear a wife-beater shirt with "I'm a Democrat" in large bold font emblazoned across his scrawny chest.

36 posted on 07/23/2010 10:38:57 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (In 2012: The Rookie and The Wookie get booted from the White House.)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

My husband has been spending an unGodly number of hours working lately and has not the time to follow the news.

I was telling him about JournoList this evening and brought up the very point you’ve just made. We should not rest until are tax dollars are cut off from these propagandists. NPR being my #1 target.


37 posted on 07/23/2010 10:40:26 PM PDT by Brytani (There Is No (D) in November! Go Allen!!! www.allenwestforcongress.com)
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To: Brytani

It should become priority one after The Rookie has been impeached by a Republican-controlled Congress.


38 posted on 07/23/2010 10:47:02 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (In 2012: The Rookie and The Wookie get booted from the White House.)
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To: worst-case scenario
What is " nustoland?".....

You say 'opinions they hold' yet you neglect the systemmatic devolution of our society by their willing collusion to bring it down [these are 'actions' by the way - not 'opinions'].

They are active in every area: education, health, legislation, litigation and taxation, and even voting, for which you hold so much hope despite massive overt fraud. I don't know how much more of an assault on freedom such as this you can ignore and call 'opinion'.

Regardless, you have your opinions and I have mine. I do not, nor will not advocate wholesale slaughter despite your leap to think so over a figurative comment. All I am saying is that we should take note of the historic revolution and hold these people accountable in a manner that brings justice, not the perverted justice meted out today by liberals.

39 posted on 07/24/2010 7:10:07 AM PDT by Gaffer ("Profiling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Gaffer

I have no idea what “nutstoland is, either. It looks like a typo for “nutsoland,” which *someone other than me* must have typed. I STILL want to know what a “Plotanna conclusion” is - I googled the term and can find no reference to it.

They are “active in every area” because your fellow citizens agree with them, in many cases. What you call “their willing collusion to bring it down” is what THEY believe the Tea Party wants to do - bring down the whole system of taxes and the system of government involvement that THEY want, and that is actually in place right now. THEY see the Tea Party as the threat to the society they live in.

There is, apparently, a large percentage of people who actually support these ideas. I know - I live in a state FULL of them. They are intelligent, rational, patriotic people who see things very differently, and emphasize different points of view. I argue with them, and can get them to change their points of view, but not by insulting them and calling them traitors.

You know that I have never heard ONE of my Liberal customers or neighbors say that all Conservatives should be executed.

You cited the French Revolution as if it were a good thing. Do a bit of reading on the Terror that followed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror
Most of the original Revolutionaries, including Danton and Desmoulins, were guillotined because they weren’t ideologically pure enough. It was their old comrade Robespierre who condemned them saying, “Terror is nothing else than swift, severe, indomitable justice; it flows, then, from virtue.” Do you agree with him?

(Robespierre and 21 of his close friends were executed a year later, in the revolt *against* the French Revolution.

History has shown over and over and over that the manner of “justice” that you have called for is doomed to failure. People always rise up against a tyranny of “correct point of view” that enforces itself with blood. That is what you are calling for in your sweeping condemnation of people for, yes, their opinions and the way they choose to live those out.

Why don’t you try convincing people you disagree with of their errors? You don’t need to convince anybody on FR about the evils of socialism or the need to ensure individual liberty. Try some other forum where the Libs gather.


40 posted on 07/24/2010 8:33:42 AM PDT by worst-case scenario (Striving to reach the light)
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