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Global warming debate gets local - and ugly (MN)
pioneer press ^ | 7-24-10 | Steve Karnowski

Posted on 07/24/2010 7:48:09 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB

A St. Paul professor touched off a bitter trans-Atlantic dispute when he posted an online slideshow rebutting a speech by a British climate change skeptic, a cyber flap that's resulted in harsh words and threats of legal action.

John Abraham, a professor of thermal sciences at the University of St. Thomas, said Friday he decided he had a responsibility as a scientist to challenge remarks Christopher Monckton made during a speech last October at Bethel University in Arden Hills.

"He presented science that was at odds with the understanding of the vast majority of people working in the field," Abraham said. "The problem with that is that people who listened to his presentation would come away with a misconception about what is known about climate change and what a serious issue this is."

Lord Monckton, the Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, said he was libeled. He fired back with letters to St. Thomas officials, including its president, the Rev. Dennis Dease, demanding that Abraham be disciplined. He also issued a 99-page rebuttal.

(Excerpt) Read more at twincities.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: algore; fraud; gore; mn; mockton; stthomas; ugly; warming

1 posted on 07/24/2010 7:48:13 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB
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To: WOBBLY BOB

I’m backing Monckton


2 posted on 07/24/2010 7:50:55 AM PDT by cavador ("Self determination is not a malfunction"!(Harkness;Fallout 3 Rivet City 2077))
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To: WOBBLY BOB; markomalley; Dr. Bogus Pachysandra; Nipfan; rdl6989; Tunehead54; Clive; Little Bill; ...
 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

3 posted on 07/24/2010 7:52:06 AM PDT by steelyourfaith ("Release the Second Chakra !!!!!!!" ... Al Gore, 10/24/06)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

The mere fact that the global warming pushers changed the term from global warming to climate change indicates they are not to be trusted and the whole thing is entirely political.


4 posted on 07/24/2010 7:55:44 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (In the White House the mighty White House the Liar sleeps tonight.............)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
"He presented science that was at odds with the understanding of the vast majority of people working in the field," Abraham said


Even if 100% of scientist believe something is true, does not make it so.

I do not have any doubt that the climate is changing, what I have doubt about is that man has anything to do with that change.

The whole "global warming" fraud is nothing more than a way to control people. It is a polictical movement, not a scientific one.

Science is going to pay a heavy price in the future as people realize they have been lied to.

How much of our current financial condition today is the result of regulations and obstruction by environmentalist?

5 posted on 07/24/2010 7:58:33 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN
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To: CIB-173RDABN

Fraud...Political movement...That’s true, but if you really want to know what is behind it, “Follow the Money”.


6 posted on 07/24/2010 8:00:22 AM PDT by Old Retired Army Guy (tHE)
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To: cavador

So am I.


7 posted on 07/24/2010 8:01:57 AM PDT by steveab (When was the last time someone tried to sell you a CO2 induced climate control system for your home?)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
John Abraham, a professor of thermal sciences at the University of St. Thomas . . .

Has anyone ever heard of a degree in thermal sciences? There are broad industrial applications for sciences such as thermal transfer, an industry in which I work. But our engineers have degrees in mechanical engineering, chemical engineering, electrical engineering and other well-known engineering discliplines.

Just for the heck of it, I looked up the college. St. Thomas is a small Catholic liberal arts university in St. Paul, Minnesota. It does have a small engineering department which features "engineering for peace" as one of their optional fields of concentration.

I could be wrong, but I suspect most of their students are liberal mush-heads who only need the facade of science to cover their political agenda.

Unlike, I might add, our local Catholic liberal arts university St. Vincent's College which actually teaches our kids something and consistently ranks among the top conservative colleges in the nation.

8 posted on 07/24/2010 8:02:45 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: HerrBlucher

Don’t forget it was global cooling to begin with.


9 posted on 07/24/2010 8:03:07 AM PDT by SouthTexas
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To: Vigilanteman

He may be a fake scientist based on his weak understanding.


10 posted on 07/24/2010 8:05:17 AM PDT by dila813
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Here is the Slide Show from John Abraham

http://www.stthomas.edu/engineering/jpabraham/

Here is Lord Monckton

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/reprint/response_to_john_abraham.pdf


11 posted on 07/24/2010 8:10:12 AM PDT by dila813
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To: WOBBLY BOB
The AGW shysters have come within an inch of enacting the ‘carbon credits’ scam of buying and selling air. Trillions of dollars are at stake and Gore, Obama, Soros, et al, are not going to just quietly watch as their future fortunes disappear. We constantly need to fight back and push back.
12 posted on 07/24/2010 8:10:25 AM PDT by JPG (Sarah Spitz? No, she swallowed the Obama agenda.)
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To: JPG

They are desperate, sending in fourth stringers.


13 posted on 07/24/2010 8:19:04 AM PDT by dila813
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To: Vigilanteman
From Wikipedia (I know, I know, but anyhow):

Thermal science is the combined study of thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, heat transfer, and combustion. This umbrella-subject is typically designed for non-engineering students and functions to provide a general introduction to each of three core heat-related subjects.

Also, there is a thermal science journal.

Also, from the University of St. Thomas, Dr. Abraham has his PhD in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Minnesota. So my guess is that he is teaching a bunch of non-engineers thermal science.

So his credentials are reasonable, but he is still wrong.

14 posted on 07/24/2010 8:21:32 AM PDT by kosciusko51
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Page 4 is the Biggest Lie of Abraham that shows he doesn’t have any respect for the truth.

He said Lord Monckton said the earth isn’t warming, that is an out right lie.


15 posted on 07/24/2010 8:27:05 AM PDT by dila813
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To: cavador

Globull warmists would up their intellectual stock significantly simply by “refudiating” (thanks Sarah Palin) any and all AIRPORT WEATHER DATA from their studies. They should be hanging their heads in shame for using these notorious heat islands at all.


16 posted on 07/24/2010 8:28:27 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: CIB-173RDABN
The appeal to consensus is the key to understanding that this professor is a fraud and not a scientist.
17 posted on 07/24/2010 8:28:47 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Vigilanteman

gak, maybe it will dawn on rome some day that allowing a university to claim affiliation to its church actually ought to mean something in how said university carries on its affairs. and if it doesn’t, you yank the right to claim the affiliation.


18 posted on 07/24/2010 8:34:10 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: WOBBLY BOB

AGW a small provincial cult with large financial backing. Perhaps the last gasp of liberal white supremacy, whereas a group of ponytails and clipped hairs can save the little people and elevate themselves to a higher plane of human existance (and make a good living too).


19 posted on 07/24/2010 8:43:53 AM PDT by junta (S.C.U.M. = State Controlled Unreliable Media)
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To: dila813
I started the Abraham slideshow but walked away when he began using the first IPCC report as a source of data to refute Monckton.

The first IPCC report is well known to have been based on cooked data and flatout falsehoods in the conclusion section, inserted at the last minute by political flacks. If Abraham trusts the likes of the IPCC he is no scientist no matter how many prsentations he makes at conferences.

20 posted on 07/24/2010 8:46:42 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: SouthTexas

Yes, and they remembered that and decided in order to make this a long term scam regardless of which way the global temps are moving, climate change covers all the bases.


21 posted on 07/24/2010 8:53:59 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (In the White House the mighty White House the Liar sleeps tonight.............)
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To: hinckley buzzard

It is just an outright political personal attack. He refutes claims that never were made.

Left wing tactic of taking down straw men arguments.


22 posted on 07/24/2010 8:55:12 AM PDT by dila813
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To: junta

Most of the ponytails I know are libertarians and think AGW is a scam.


23 posted on 07/24/2010 9:03:00 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (In the White House the mighty White House the Liar sleeps tonight.............)
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My money’s on Monckton.


24 posted on 07/24/2010 9:15:14 AM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Aim small, miss small.)
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To: WOBBLY BOB
"He presented science that was at odds with the understanding of the vast majority of people working in the field," Abraham said.

That's an interesting statement from someone who is NOT working "in the field". If you tediously read through the list of Dr. Abraham's publications, there is not one dealing with climate science.

25 posted on 07/24/2010 9:34:50 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: CIB-173RDABN

This is a correct view. The earth’s climate has been changing since it’s creation. As a Geologist, I study climate change for a living, and it is constantly changing. Man’s appearance on the earth has had a minimal effect on climate, and when you think about it, if you spent the entire GDP of earth to foment change, you would not change it one iota. Ketchup man and gore should take a freshman Geology course, and then they would understand it better.


26 posted on 07/24/2010 10:07:16 AM PDT by richardtavor
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To: Vigilanteman
Has anyone ever heard of a degree in thermal sciences?

I am not schooled in thermal sciences, but I have much practical experience. For example, when I picked up the paper this morning, it was warmer and more humid than yesterday. It was also far warmer than is normal during the Winter.

Can I get a government grant? /s

27 posted on 07/24/2010 10:52:41 AM PDT by ken in texas
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To: WOBBLY BOB

The way to lower CO2 production and save the planet is to Stop all driving and air travel and nuke China and India back to the Stone Age.


28 posted on 07/24/2010 12:08:13 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Socialism is the philosophy of failure, - W Churchill)
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To: Vigilanteman
Has anyone ever heard of a degree in thermal sciences?

To get one, you have to be able to shovel a load of hot BS. Abraham can certainly do that.

29 posted on 07/24/2010 2:44:37 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (No apologies.)
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To: richardtavor
I am not a geologist but I have visited the Yosemite Valley. They say it was created when the glaciers receded.

To have glaciers the earth had to be colder than it is today. For them to have receded it has to be warmer than when they were created. All of it long before the industrial revolution.

How any sane person could argue man is responsible for climate change is beyond me.

30 posted on 07/24/2010 2:52:42 PM PDT by CIB-173RDABN
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To: CIB-173RDABN

You might be surprised that there were glaciers as far south as near the northern border of Oklahoma.


31 posted on 07/24/2010 3:24:54 PM PDT by richardtavor
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To: richardtavor

Not as all since we are further south than Oklahoma. If I remember correctly the Great Lakes are left over from the time Glaciers covered North America.

It seems everyone knows this but the scientist supporting “man caused global warming”


32 posted on 07/24/2010 3:47:48 PM PDT by CIB-173RDABN
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