Posted on 07/28/2010 4:38:09 AM PDT by Cardhu
A plane has crashed in hills north of the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, killing all 152 people on board.
The plane, an Airblue flight from Karachi to Islamabad, came down in the Margalla Hills.
Officials said the plane lost contact with the control tower minutes before landing. It is not known what caused the crash.
Pakistani TV showed images of smouldering wreckage on a foggy hillside, with helicopters overhead.
A huge rescue effort was launched, and the army sent special troops to help.
The plane, reported to be an Airbus A321 with 146 passengers and six crew on board, is thought to have left Karachi at 0750 (0350 GMT).
Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik said at least five survivors had been taken to hospital, but local officials later said those reports were wrong.
Local TV footage showed twisted metal wreckage hanging from trees and scattered across the ground. A flight recorder has been found.
Officials said rescuers searching for survivors were digging through the rubble with their bare hands. The crash site, on a steep hill, has no roads.
"The plane is totally destroyed, the pieces and parts scattered over a large distance. Some parts of the plane are still burning. Some bushes have been burnt," said Express 24/7 television journalist Sabur Ali Sayed at the scene.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...
When a plane full of Muslims goes down its sad that the first thing that you think of was it was brought down by one of their own.
ROP
God have mercy.
It missed the approach first and climbed out of Islamabad for making another circuit. The Margalla Hills - stealthed with clouds - intersected the flight vector of the aircraft inadvertently interrupting continued forward progress of the aircraft.
There are reports of at least 6 survivors (some reports numbering as many as 45).
My FIRST thought was offering prayers for the innocent and their family members on-board that plane.
IMMEDIATELY after I wondered the same thing... Why did it crash? Obviously there are MANY reason a plane crashes - pilot error, mechanical failure, freak weather problems (and reg. weather too)...
I don’t know off-hand the reputation of the area it crashed in - the Margalla Hills - neither the terrain, nor the occupants of that area. However, knowing what we know about the RADICAL Muslims in Pakistan it’s NOT inconceivable that they could have taken it down themselves - whether from someone ON the plane, or from the ground.
Like you said — it’s really sad that with such a tragedy like this one wonders what “really” happened. Such is the world nowadays I suppose...
RIP.
“The Margalla Hills - stealthed with clouds - intersected the flight vector of the aircraft inadvertently interrupting continued forward progress of the aircraft.”
IOW - the pilot crashed the plane into the mountainside (hillside?) due to low visibility? Also, wouldn’t it be the PILOT who then “inadvertently” interrupted the “forward progress” by hitting the mountain? It’s not like they rose up “accidentally” to hit the plane...
[Yes, I’m busting your chops - teasing a bit. I just thought your explanation sounded WAY too much like some bureaucrat’s patronizing explanation - trying to make things sound WAY more complicated than they need to be in order to appear extremely intelligent...]
I wonder if the plane’s warning system was working, or if the alarm went off too late to avoid the accident?
Anyway, I hope the reports of survivors are correct. Prayers for the injured, and the families of all involved (as well as the rescue workers).
There have been several Airbus crashes; I don’t know if this one if the same model as the others; but it could be that the plane itself has design problems.
Not necessarily by a bomb, although that is always a possibility.
Maintenance and flight crew competence are not always up to Western standards.
Neither are the passengers. A few years ago, a jet burned with the loss of everybody on board on a runway in Kuwait. Somebody lit a propane burner in flight to cook himself a meal. It tipped over and ignited portions of the cabin. The pilot managed to land the plane, but the crew was unable to open the doors before it was too late.
Not necessarily by a bomb, although that is always a possibility.
Maintenance and flight crew competence are not always up to Western standards.
Neither are the passengers. A few years ago, a jet burned with the loss of everybody on board on a runway in Kuwait. Somebody lit a propane burner in flight to cook himself a meal. It tipped over and ignited portions of the cabin. The pilot managed to land the plane, but the crew was unable to open the doors before it was too late.
ISLAMABAD – A passenger jet crashed into the hills surrounding Pakistan’s capital amid poor weather Wednesday, killing all 152 people on board and blazing a path of devastation strewn with body parts and twisted metal wreckage.
Initial Interior Ministry reports that five people survived the Airblue crash were wrong, said Imtiaz Elahi, chairman of the Capital Development Authority, which deals with emergencies and reports to the ministry.
“The situation at the site of the crash is heartbreaking,” Elahi told The Associated Press. “It is a great tragedy, and I confirm it with pain that there are no survivors.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100728/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan
It appears that the cause of the crash was “CFIT”, controlled flight into terrain.
To the very few on this thread (NOT LibertyRocks) who have expressed glee at the deaths of many undoubted innocents merely because they are Pakistani, I say shame on you. Your sentiments are unworthy.
Prediction: Imminent speculation whether those 5 died on impact. Or, thereafter...
I fully agree. I know American Pakistanis and I immediately thought of them.
Bad weather + hills = bad combination. With all the technological wizardry modern jetliners have onboard, it still comes down sometimes to a lost or disoriented flight crew combined with nonexistent or inattentive ATC, and then it’s “WHOOP WHOOP PULL UP PULL UP”...
}:-)4
Reading a UK-based board where a lot of airline pilots post (pprune.org - not the most reliable source around but sometimes has some good information), the plane may have been attempting a circle-to-land approach on runway 12 at Islamabad. Basically, the plane flies down the approach vector for the runway going the other direction (runway 30), then makes a descending circle to the right back to a point where they can line up for runway 12. Supposedly the plane is supposed to stay within a certain distance of the airport while doing the circle to avoid the hills, and this flight got too far away and failed to clear a ridge. Occam’s Razor would say “pilot error” but it’s way too early to tell.
}:-)4
Also known as " Flight into Cumulogranite"
The plane, reported to be an Airbus...
I think I have discovered the cause...
The fact that it was an Airbus is notable. Those planes have had many problems.
When they are not crashing or malfunctioning, they are actually very fast and comfortable planes.
We should also consider that Pakistan is not a first world country, and their pilots and standards may not be up to our own.
Agreed. Anyone who sees Islam as just another religion is a fool, but the person who sees all Muslims as the same and wishes them all dead is an even bigger fool.
May CHRIST have mercy.
If your referring to AA 587 in 2001 and Air France in 2009, those crashes involved A-330s. And I think both of those incidents were terrorism, not accidents.
Today's crash was an A-321. The entire A-320 series is a workhorse all over the world and seems to be very reliable. In fact, entire routes are A-320 heavy; the US Airways Shuttle is A-320 heavy and Jet Blue's entire operation is A-320s IIRC.
CFIT
Saqlain Altaf, who heard the crash, told ARY he had been on a family outing in the hills when he saw the plane looking unsteady in the air.
"The plane had lost balance, and then we saw it going down," he said
An experienced Beech 350 pilot happened to see the ill fated plane while ISB to Rawalpindi -the twin city - moments before the crash...and one of the things noticed was the gear down even after the plane had gained altitude after aborting the intial landing (although that is pretty common at ISB as ILS is only available on one side of the runway)...
FWIW: Pilot of AA 757 entered an incorrect waypoint on the FMC after aborted short final into Cali; tower didn't realize the error due to limited ground system operation; if but for the the spoilers being extended crew unable to avoid mountains rising in front of them.
Any pilot familiar with ISB and surrounding area would have known their headed for the Hills clouds or no clouds - although clouds were literally at rooftop height today in ISB - They were probably both figuring out whether to divert to LHE or go around...prob ignored a couple of fatal warnings.
Speculation has it the crew may have been attempting a circle to land (breaking right) maneuver on RWY 12. It would appear at first glance that the weather conditions were within the minima required for a Cat C circle to land (MDA 2510' (842' AAL), Vis 2400m.
PANS-OPS chart, so the circling area is a radius of 5.28NM from the runway ends for Cat D circling aircraft... Once you leave that circling area, you're on your own!
Now, I don't know exactly where the plane crashed in that chart, but if they went down on the glideslope until the MDA (which would then be at DME 2.5 from RN VOR) and did a right turn for a "left hand circling", and then they "forgot" or "mistimed" the turn, then they might end up where they were.
If this was a runway 30 approach, with that go-around reported, then, someone forgot to follow the Missed Approach procedure, or, decided to rush going back in on a circuit and then screwed up somewhere... of course, we don't know at the moment.
Capt was a retired PIA 747 commander aged 67 (some are saying his age may have affected his responses). Terrorism is not being ruled out. No Fly Zone in vicinity has given birth to some conspiracy theories.
Aircraft was flying at around 2500 feet. Forerst dept. man working in the hills said he say the planes wing hit a tree first which caused a fire before it crashed.
The european sounding passenger is now being called Australian, maybe they cant differentiate between Austria, he was a professor heading to ISB to give a lecture at a University.
None of the remains are identifiable due to mutilation or burning, except for one childs body who was relatively intact, there were no survivors or cries for help at any stage, according to people who helped in the intitial stages of search and rescue.
GPWS Mode 4: Unsafe Terrain Clearance When Not in Landing configuration Mode 4A: Landing Gear Up
- Aural Warning "TOO LOW GEAR" or "TOO LOW TERRAIN".
"TOO LOW GEAR" generated at lower than 500' above ground from 0kts to 190kts.
"TOO LOW TERRAIN" generated at 190kts or faster, at lower than 500ft above ground at 190kts, to lower than 1000ft above ground at 250kts or faster.
Mode 4B: Landing gear down, flaps not in landing configuration.
"TOO LOW FLAPS" generated at 245ft above ground or lower up to 159kts.
"TOO LOW TERRAIN" generated from 245' AGL @159kts, to 1000' AGL @ 250kts or faster.
Both mode 4A and 4B are inhibted below 30' AGL.
So, flaps not in landing config with gear down, reduces the altitude in which the GPWS would sound in Mode 4.
The above is only regarding GPWS Mode 4 warnings (Modes are 1 - 5).
On an interesting note, if the aircraft has a predictive windshear warning coming on, the GPWS audio alert would be inhibited.
Landing gear extended, if I understand the manual correctly, supresses (not inhibit) the GPWS audio.
So, the landing gear extended does, reduce the GPWS alert zone buffer.
Now, if the crew did a go-around in landing flaps and gear down, well, can't really blame the GPWS for not screaming... but that, we don't know at this moment.
Kay, I’ll bite. What is ROP?
>>AA 587 in 2001 and Air France in 2009, those crashes involved A-330<<
587 was a A300. There’s no evidence that either 587 nor 447 were terrorist related. Just crappy planes. The A320 series has had a number of fatal accidents. I wouldn’t taxi in an Airbus.
447 was a flight that had been threatened by bomb threats several times before its demise. And thre continue to be security disruptions of AF Rio-Paris flights; one as recently as last week.
As for the A320 being "a crappy plane," I seem to recall UA 585 and US 427 being lost due to a crappy rudder actuator design. Those were both 737s.
Finally, US 1549 landed safely in the Hudson, something nobody thought would be possible. That was an A320.
ROP = “Religion of Peace,” what our previous president called the cult that killed 3000 of our fellow citizens on 9/11.
All you have is speculation on 447. 587 was proven to be both plane design error and a lack of training on the part of the pilot. How exactly did a terrorist bring down 587?
I said the Airbus in general were “crappy planes,” not specifically the 320s. As far as the Hudson goes, that was all on the pilot.
A bomb could have brought down 587. Several witnesses said they saw an in-flight explosion. As far as the cause of 587 being “proven,” that’s no different than saying it’s been “proven” that TWA 800 was destroyed by a center fuel tank explosion.
You sort of wonder where reports of survivors from a crash like this come from.
Also “UDAS:” Unintended Departure from Air Space.
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