Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Should Arizona secede?
WashingtonTimes.com ^ | July 29, 2010 | Jeffrey T. Kuhner

Posted on 07/29/2010 6:34:13 PM PDT by SloopJohnB

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-161 next last
To: SloopJohnB

Maybe DC should secede(?)


101 posted on 07/29/2010 7:54:52 PM PDT by The Duke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Frantzie

Which is why Rubio was smoking Crist before he went Indy and why Rick Scott will probably knock off McCullum. Whatever!


102 posted on 07/29/2010 7:57:29 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Eschew Socialism!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Razmataz
That's a great idea...just one problem...they're not spending with real(earned)U.S. dollars...it's all IOU's to places like China...along with Fed. Reserve counterfeiting.

(Did not Obama himself last year say we(well, U.S.)were broke?)

They could give two sh ts about tax receipts right now...this gang of thieves are nothing more than drug addicts stealing from their someone elses kids piggy bank...while running up their someone elses credit card...all to fuel their habit.

It makes a Madoff ponzi scheme look like a game of checkers....and nobody gives a damn.

103 posted on 07/29/2010 8:00:39 PM PDT by RckyRaCoCo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: dr_lew

From what I heard on Fox News, LEO’s can still ask for identification just as they were doing before the bill. The bill requires them to ascertain status, but the judge said that might be too overwhelming for the feds, and issued an injunction.


104 posted on 07/29/2010 8:00:45 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: citizenredstater9271
Lately, I've been hearing in the media the Leftist siren call for direct elections, ie. democracy instead of a republic. The call is to get rid of the Electoral College. One campaign meme is to put fear into the people that some republican candidates oppose the "direct election of senators," playing on the public's ignorance of history that senators were not always elected directly.

I have been saying for a year, that I think Obama will try to extend his Presidency indefinitely by a Chavez/Zelaya-style "popular vote", 22nd Amendment be damned. We know the game plan:"Let the PEOPLE decide!" "Democracy for ALL!" "Let's make HISTORY!"

If the Progressives succeed in overriding the 22nd, and implement illegal amnesty, then secession SHOULD happen, because the Republic is over.

And just because it failed in the past doesn't mean it will in the future. Otherwise we'd still be under the Roman or British Empire.

105 posted on 07/29/2010 8:04:42 PM PDT by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SloopJohnB

If AZ DID secede, I’d move there immediately to get out of Oh Bummer’s Kingdom.


106 posted on 07/29/2010 8:07:38 PM PDT by Rembrandt (.. AND the donkey you rode in on.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Conservative9

“I don’t see Brewer having the guts....”
She seems pretty gutsy to me.


107 posted on 07/29/2010 8:09:31 PM PDT by Silentgypsy (Employing freedom of speech/expression in order to condemn freedom of speech/expression¬ógo figure..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: wendy1946

“The only way anybody could break off viably would be for Texas and Utah and all the other states they could take with them to do it.”

There is always a leader, then there are followers. Jan Brewer strikes me as the leader type. Maybe the next Jefferson Davis.


108 posted on 07/29/2010 8:17:03 PM PDT by Rembrandt (.. AND the donkey you rode in on.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Rembrandt

Maybe, but Arizona isn’t the state to start it. It would have to start with Texas and Utah.


109 posted on 07/29/2010 8:18:58 PM PDT by wendy1946
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: SloopJohnB

Arizona could argue that Bolton and the Federal Government has stripped Arizona of its sovereignty by refusing to respect or defend its borders. By association, Texas, New Mexico and California could make the same case.

If you can’t control your borders, you don’t really have a state. Therefore, the U.S. has seceded from Arizona. I don’t think they will do it, but a compelling case could be made for Arizona, just as it could be made for any border state.


110 posted on 07/29/2010 8:25:41 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Washington, we Texans want a divorce!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GatorGirl

Yup. When Rubio and McCollum spewed their open-border RINO sh*t saying they were against the AZ law - they both dropped in the polls. It was a slam dunk for both of them up until then.

I sure wish we had a Rick Scott choice for Senator instead of Scarface.


111 posted on 07/29/2010 8:26:13 PM PDT by Frantzie (Democrats = Party of I*lam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur

“To paraphrase the immortal words of James Pettigru, Arizona is too small to be a country and too large to be an insane asylum.”


My regards to Pettigu, but I’ve been to the Vatican which is a sovereign state within the borders of the city of Rome. It’s not insane. It’s small, certainly smaller than AZ, and it’s a country and has been for hundreds of years. The State/Country of Arizona with its own Constitution and its own citizens with the right to bear arms would be formidable.

It could certainly defend itself against the pantywaists from Kalifornia and Nevada, also Nu Mexico. The people in Mexico itself would be too smart to attempt continued invasions knowing they would be obliterated. All problems solved.

AZ is a great place, just very dry.


112 posted on 07/29/2010 8:27:29 PM PDT by Rembrandt (.. AND the donkey you rode in on.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: wendy1946

Texas is infested with RINOs like Rick Perry, Kay Bailey and Cornyn. Utah is dumping their stinking RINOs. Bennet is toast and Orrin Hatch is next. Gotta love the folks of Utah and AZ (if AZ dumps McShame).


113 posted on 07/29/2010 8:27:37 PM PDT by Frantzie (Democrats = Party of I*lam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: Conservative9

” She is a republican- they talk big and make back room deals.”

“..they?..” Republicans are “they?” Perhaps you ought to move back to Amsterdam, Conservative9, you and we would be better off not to mention happier. Democrats are the back room dealmakers; wait another 14 hours and see how Rangel gets out of his fix.


114 posted on 07/29/2010 8:32:00 PM PDT by Rembrandt (.. AND the donkey you rode in on.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: grumpa

bump for later reading


115 posted on 07/29/2010 8:34:57 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Washington, we Texans want a divorce!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: wendy1946

“Maybe, but Arizona isn’t the state to start it. It would have to start with Texas and Utah.”

Your opinion and mine are equal - I say Arizona can start whatever it wants, the rest can choose to be Obama acolytes or can follow Arizona’s lead.


116 posted on 07/29/2010 8:39:23 PM PDT by Rembrandt (.. AND the donkey you rode in on.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: Rembrandt

I bet Conservative 9 watches lots of TV. Idiots cannot connect the dots that TV/networks/cable/libs cut good Repubs off at the knees what they try to do something.

Keep watching ball games folks and nonsesne on TV because TV controls America and they support Obama 110%.


117 posted on 07/29/2010 8:39:37 PM PDT by Frantzie (Democrats = Party of I*lam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: 23 Everest

Agree. Arizona should also announce at a press conference that according to the judge they can no longer enforce federal law and will cease to enforce all federal laws immediately.
We have to learn to fight fire with fire.


118 posted on 07/29/2010 8:47:25 PM PDT by sheana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: sheana

Let’s start a snow ball!


119 posted on 07/29/2010 8:53:08 PM PDT by 23 Everest (Zero, Glittering Jewel of Colossal Ignorance.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: SloopJohnB

Washington D.C. should secede.


120 posted on 07/29/2010 8:59:43 PM PDT by devere
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SloopJohnB

Secession is illegal.


121 posted on 07/29/2010 9:25:34 PM PDT by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

Ping!


122 posted on 07/29/2010 9:26:01 PM PDT by HiJinx (I can see November from my front porch - and Mexico from the back.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pissant

Very well put. They need to turn out in record numbers at the polls. Also, remind them to bring their cell phone cameras and film any SIEU activity.


123 posted on 07/29/2010 9:26:10 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Obama's more worried about Israelis building houses than he is about Islamists building atomic bombs)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: citizenredstater9271

It is laughably false that the founders EVER intended secession. In fact, the greatest of the Founders: Washington, Hamilton, Marshall, Madison all believed secession to be impossible under the Constitution.

Not even Jefferson believed it a good idea though his idiotic interpretations of the Constitution led to the RAT Rebellion of 1861.

One could amend the constitution and allow withdrawal but that would be the only way to do it legally.


124 posted on 07/29/2010 9:31:06 PM PDT by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SloopJohnB
We are two culturally different peoples that take turns at governing one another. Unlike the Revolution and the War Between the States, this time both sides will agree to a split. Below is the secession map that Liberals proposed when John Kerry was defeated in 2004.

We can still have a NATO-like association between the Free States and the Fascist States for defense, etc. In the right context, Liberals can support state rights. For example, Vermont can have unlimited sodomy and infanticide, without Oklahoma getting a vote on it.

125 posted on 07/29/2010 9:35:35 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: UnwashedPeasant

You shouldn’t give up western canada and New Hampshire to the liberals, though, just my 2!~


126 posted on 07/29/2010 9:36:30 PM PDT by JSDude1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: sergeantdave
"Two peoples, one in favor of individual liberty and the other wanting to enslave everyone, cannot and will not live together"

It is like we are married a child molester. We need to move our kids to another house, not preserve a corrupt Union where the children are only molested by one parent.

127 posted on 07/29/2010 9:54:29 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

Then there would be no change from the way things stand today.


128 posted on 07/29/2010 9:56:53 PM PDT by Natural Born 54 (FUBO x 10)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: SloopJohnB

Civil War II


129 posted on 07/29/2010 9:59:37 PM PDT by television is just wrong
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Frantzie

Really...


130 posted on 07/29/2010 10:43:00 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus' sayin')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

Where in the Constitution does it say states don’t have the right to secede?


131 posted on 07/29/2010 10:56:14 PM PDT by citizenredstater9271
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: jessduntno

“I wonder how third Manassas will turn out?”

Who will be our Stonewall Jackson?


132 posted on 07/29/2010 10:56:57 PM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: GonzoGOP

“Being from Chicago and knowing how things work here I am very worried that one of the conservative supreme court judges is going to have an accident. “

Bingo! I wouldn’t bet a nickel on all five of them surviving until 11/12. They must be scared shitless.


133 posted on 07/29/2010 11:10:42 PM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: SloopJohnB
NO! Arizona and every other State who supports Arizona should declare they will not longer enforce a single Federal law in their States!

Screw the federal government if they only want to enforce federal laws that will get them reelected to office!!!!!

Kick the freddy’s out of every State in the United States and tell them to find anther stooge to do their bidding for them!

Arizona needs to man up and tell that federal judge they are going to enforce their immigration laws and if the federal government does not like it to send federal troops to Arizona and arrest the governor, and while they are in Arizona to round up the illegals and take them back to D.C. with them to live and mooch off the government!!!

134 posted on 07/30/2010 12:23:23 AM PDT by paratrooper82 (We are kicking Ass in Afghanistan, soon we will be home to kick some more Asses in Congress!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2harddrive
Ladies and Gentlemen: The CORRECT answer is for a 2nd Constitutional Convention to be held...we only need 1 or 2 more states to agree...and for that august body to then DISSOLVE the United States of America! With that dead carcass out of the way, the delegates could then form a NEW government, one that is of, by, and for the PEOPLE!

With the population of brain-dead layabouts that we have now? Bad idea. Very, very bad. How do you think Obama got elected? It wasn't all voter fraud - the bumbling moron managed to sucker a good 50% of the voting population into voting for their own slavery. A Constitutional Convention would merely be an open door for communism to be legally instituted in this country.

Maybe after a year or two of civil war, when we've cleared away some of the dead wood, THEN we can have a Constitutional Convention.
135 posted on 07/30/2010 12:35:44 AM PDT by fr_freak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: Rembrandt

By a back room deal with weepublicans. Sorry, they are doing NOTHING to resist this destruction of our country. You can give them a pass if you want.
Been to Amsterdam, don’t care to live there. Been to Germany, don’t want to be there either. I prefer a free South.


136 posted on 07/30/2010 3:46:21 AM PDT by Conservative9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: Silentgypsy

We will see. I hope she does. But to do something like Nullification that would benefit the entire country I don’t see her doing. Republicans have not shown a back bone for bold Constitutional initiatives.


137 posted on 07/30/2010 3:48:57 AM PDT by Conservative9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: Rembrandt
It could certainly defend itself against the pantywaists from Kalifornia and Nevada, also Nu Mexico. The people in Mexico itself would be too smart to attempt continued invasions knowing they would be obliterated. All problems solved.

There's a lot more to setting up a country than thumping your chest and thumbing your nose at your neighbors. Will the people in Arizona want to foot the billions it would cost to go it alone?

138 posted on 07/30/2010 4:25:55 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: UnwashedPeasant
That would almost work. We'd need one left-coast port which was either ours or we had guaranteed access to and they'd need some sort of a guarantee of food and then there's a question about Vermont, NH, Md. and a couple of other states which are only blue by dint of one or two cities, i.e. you take Baltimore and Montgomery counties out of Md. and it's a perfectly normal red state.

Democracy is a fairly good system for governing a more or less homogeneous people with shared ideas and values. It was never meant to be a system for sharing power between two or more groups with little or nothing in common at all who basically just hate each other. At that point, and we ARE at that point now, all you have left is a contest to see who can do the better job of gaming the system.

If the dem party can be decisively defeated in this coming election then there might yet be some hope of keeping the country together as it exists. Otherwise we'd probably be better off to split up.

139 posted on 07/30/2010 4:29:50 AM PDT by wendy1946
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: Rembrandt

“It could certainly defend itself against the pantywaists from Kalifornia...”

Let’s not get carried away...CA is not just LA and SF...we still got some cowboys...there was a pretty good one from here...name of Ron something...maybe you heard of him? Big memorial to him right up the road from me.


140 posted on 07/30/2010 7:28:33 AM PDT by jessduntno (Each day, I await a fresh insult to America by this usurper...he never fails to deliver.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

“Secession is illegal”

The British said that it was “illegal” for the American colonies to secede from the empire.

They changed their mind quite readily after getting their a$$es kicked not once, but twice.

What is “legal” is what can be enforced with the strength of arms.


141 posted on 07/30/2010 7:32:45 AM PDT by NeverForgetBataan (To the German Commander: ..........................NUTS !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: NeverForgetBataan
Precisely.

Government decides what is illegal, and they use force to make sure people obey. Government is the entity which has a monopoly on force. That's what government is. That's what law is.

For revolution, civil war, or secession, any discussion of "legality" is simply misplaced. Either you are strong enough to get your way or you are not. There's nothing more to be said.

142 posted on 07/30/2010 7:39:05 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy; NeverForgetBataan

And the “issue of secession” was NOT resolved in the 1860s.

The right to secede exists regardless of whether the right was suppressed through the force of arms.

Secession IS legal under the original Constitution, inherently so. The Constitution would not have been ratified without the inherent understanding that if the _created entity_ of the federal government breached the contract, the states could withdraw from that contract.

The government in the 1860s simply enforced an illegal suppression of that legal right.


143 posted on 07/30/2010 7:46:29 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: MrB

Good comment, as usual. Thanks.


144 posted on 07/30/2010 7:57:08 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 143 | View Replies]

To: xkaydet65

“Fellow citizens and compatriots;

I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna. I have sustained a continual Bombardment and cannonade for 24 hours and have not lost a man. The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken. I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves proudly from the walls. I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch. The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily and will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible and die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country. Victory or Death.

William Barret Travis
Lt. Col. Comdt.

P.S. The Lord is on our side. When the enemy appeared in sight we had not three bushels of corn. We have since found in deserted houses 80 or 90 bushels and got into the walls 20 or 30 head of Beeves.
Travis”


145 posted on 07/30/2010 8:19:28 AM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spirito Sancto.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: combat_boots

One of the greatest patriotic letters in American History. Not too long ago my JHS kids used a text that actually contained this letter. Now we have a new one that barely mentions The Alamo. Here in NYC I had a class of immigrant kids from Asia and Latin America which enthusiastically took a week studying the Alamo, this letter and the motivations of James Bohnam in returning to the mission and certain death. Several of the artistic kids created images of Bohnam’s decision. The History of this American Republic captures people. It is my hope we will someday be allowed again to teach it.


146 posted on 07/30/2010 8:52:45 AM PDT by xkaydet65
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 145 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur

“Will the people in Arizona want to foot the billions it would cost to go it alone?”

AZ will have LOTS of new residents, happy to make it work with their money which would otherwise be confiscated by this clown in the White House. No doubt money will flow in from many other sources also. Besides, I suspect other states would want to join the effort to create a country separate from ObamaNation.


147 posted on 07/30/2010 8:34:13 PM PDT by Rembrandt (.. AND the donkey you rode in on.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies]

To: fr_freak

A Civil War! Aye, that’s the ticket! LOL.


148 posted on 07/30/2010 8:49:47 PM PDT by 2harddrive
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: 2harddrive

I think all 57 states should secede.


149 posted on 07/30/2010 8:54:10 PM PDT by gitmo ( The democRats drew first blood. It's our turn now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: fr_freak

Of course, you are right. The delegates to a new Constitutional Convention would not be fit to shine the shoes of the original framers...the Founding Fathers. But, we are going downhill anyway...why not just get it over with? It is too late to stop.


150 posted on 07/30/2010 8:58:32 PM PDT by 2harddrive
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-161 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson