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Should Arizona secede?
WashingtonTimes.com ^ | July 29, 2010 | Jeffrey T. Kuhner

Posted on 07/29/2010 6:34:13 PM PDT by SloopJohnB

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To: gitmo

LOL!!! Good one! Hehe.


151 posted on 07/30/2010 9:01:26 PM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: 2harddrive
A Civil War! Aye, that’s the ticket! LOL.

I don't suggest a civil war because its the easiest or most pleasant solution. I suggest it because it just might be the only solution if we want our republic restored. Anyone who thinks we are going to vote our way back to the old days is kidding himself. Accept socialism, or fight against it. Those are our two choices.
152 posted on 07/30/2010 9:10:06 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: wendy1946
The only way anybody could break off viably would be for Texas and Utah and all the other states they could take with them to do it.

I think that is exactly what would happen.

153 posted on 08/01/2010 5:17:59 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: arrogantsob
Secession is illegal.

The USC is totally silent on the issue of secession.

154 posted on 08/01/2010 5:23:59 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: 2harddrive; All

The further south and male, the more pro-secession a FReeper seems. The farther North and female the more opposed. T Here are many exceptions. I think this axiom would apply nationally thought.


155 posted on 08/01/2010 5:31:12 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

Yes, true. But, if no one in Arizona will defy the “decision” of a loser judge, what makes anyone think they would stand up to Congress, and secede? Or even more so, to the Blue Army?


156 posted on 08/01/2010 2:10:07 PM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: central_va

A constitution is a foundation which can only be changed by the means proscribed within it. It is not an ordinary law. An amendment allowing withdrawal would be the constitutional means to change the Union. The purpose of the document was to make the UNION stronger, more perfect.

Even the foundation it superceded declared the Union to be “perpetual” hence a “more perfect” Union is no less. All the significant Founders: Washington, Hamilton, Madison etc. declared withdrawal impossible. Not even Jefferson suggested the contrary.

Certainly the means of testing the theory, an insane attack on clearly federal possessions obscured the legal issues and made it much easier to rally behind Lincoln as even some Democrats did.


157 posted on 08/03/2010 5:11:30 PM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: arrogantsob
Even the foundation it superceded declared the Union to be “perpetual” hence a “more perfect” Union is no less. All the significant Founders: Washington, Hamilton, Madison etc. declared withdrawal impossible. Not even Jefferson suggested the contrary.

You want to research this fantasy of yours?

Noted Anti-Federalists


    * Patrick Henry
    * Samuel Adams
    * George Mason
    * Richard Henry Lee
    * Robert Yates (politician)
    * James Winthrop
    * James Monroe
    * Mercy Otis Warren
    * George Clinton

158 posted on 08/03/2010 6:51:06 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SloopJohnB
This desecration of our flag occurred on the main lawn directly in front of the Arizona Capital building on 7-31-2010....All caught on video.

I’ve heard these illegals and their Mexican pro-illegal alien supporters, spray painted, "Burn this racist city to the ground" and painted a toilet on Old Glory as they walked all over our flag....

.

159 posted on 08/03/2010 6:56:06 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: central_va

Both Patrick Henry and Samuel Adams initially were opposed to the Constitution and both changed their minds and became strong supporters.

Technically a “Founder” was only one who attended the Constitutional Convention so only Mason would fit the term I used “...major Founder...”. Yates and Clinton were part of the clique of racketeers who made up the principle opposition to a new government in New York and Yates was in no way a major founder and was sent to the CC to ride herd on Hamilton. He failed miserably. Monroe was just a Jeffersonian puppet and not at the convention in any case.

Most of the opposition came from those who saw the Constitution as a threat to their corrupt schemes in their own states.

Your list does not address the issue either since most of them would have opposed secession even though opposed to the constitution.

The point was addressed SPECIFICALLY during the New York ratification convention. Hamilton was beating down the opposition with a brilliant display of oratorical skills (he was after all the greatest lawyer in the country) and asked Madison (at that time more Hamiltonian than Hamilton) his view of a conditional ratification with the right to withdraw later. Madison, in no uncertain terms, wrote back that this was not acceptable and that once in the Union always in the Union. At which point H proceeded to secure NY’s ratification converting a 2/3s against to a narrow victory. This was one of his greatest achievement in a life filled with incredible achievements.

In the future address what I SAY not what you wished I said. You can adapt your canned and ill-researched responses trying to support the RAT Rebellion of 1861 only with those who know little actual history.


160 posted on 08/04/2010 9:11:57 AM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: dragnet2; central_va

they just believe in secession like central va and his friends.


161 posted on 08/04/2010 9:13:36 AM PDT by arrogantsob
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